Top 5 Rail 'Nationalisation' Myths Busted!

Top 5 Rail 'Nationalisation' Myths Busted! | Ep 31

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Күн бұрын

Our Top 5 myths of rail ‘nationalisation’ based on the reaction to Labour’s plans for the railway if it wins the next General Election. We discuss what’s been said in the media and by others and debunk some of the myths that are starting to take root as a result.
Rail Minister Huw Merriman was our most recent Big Interview guest we reflect on what he said and whether we agreed with him on everything from HS2, to train strikes, rail freight, decarbonisation, rolling stock and more.
And Richard gets excited about a very special train that’s going to be running in June for the Railway Benefit Fund
Video links mentioned in the episode:
Huw Merriman Big Interview: • Rail Minister Huw Merr...
Sir Philip Rutnam Big Interview: • The Inside Story: Gove...
Breaking News Special on Labour’s Plan to Fix Britain’s Railways: • Labour’s Plan to Fix B...
In this episode:
00:00 Intro
03:11 Huw Merriman interview and our takeaways from the discussion
15:16 Labour’s Plan to Fix Britain’s Railway and our reflections after a week of it being released
18:44 Top 5 myths of rail ‘nationalisation’
54:09 Railway Benefit Fund special train
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Green Signals:
Website - www.greensignals.org
Newsletter - www.greensignals.org/#mailing-...
Follow:
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Credits:
Presenters - Nigel Harris (@railnigel on X) & Richard Bowker CBE (@SRichardBowker). General Manager: Stef Foster (@stefatrail)

Пікірлер: 98

@stephendavies6949 2 ай бұрын

Mr Kruger's mother is Pru Leith, who was at one time a director of British Railways Board & took responsibility for the Travellers Fare catering organisation. No curly sandwiches under her watch, I peradventure!

@stephendavies6949 2 ай бұрын

Hi both. PLEASE ignore the negative, daft comments regarding your interviews. Your style is excellent, and it allows the interviewees to not only make their points, but you also ask intelligent questions that shine a light into the interviewee's thinking. Very thought-provoking stuff. You get your guest to open up far more than many "professional" interviewers with their adversarial approach in the mainstream media. It reminded me of the way Michael Parkinson used to operate. Stick with your Parkinson-esque style of conducting an intelligent, enlightened, and engaging conversation.

@ChrisJohnson-te3eg 2 ай бұрын

Ive only recently found this podcast, and I must say it's excellent. It's really enjoyable to listen to the in-depth discussions on the railways. Im a train driver and also an enthusiast, and I find the mix of topics compliment what I hear from the railway press and in messroom chats. 👍

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Chris, that's really great to hear. We're glad you found us!

@melvilledartnall7435 2 ай бұрын

Only recently discovered Green signals , glad I did . I was a reader of Steam Railway for many years too! I was a railwayman for forty odd years , a signalman for most of them . Looking forward to future shows , great format.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

And we are delighted you have found us and that enjoy the shows!

@paultetlaw9556 2 ай бұрын

@Paultetlaw Having listened to just about all episodes of Green Signals I've come to the view that it is an education programme aimed at politicians. So essential viewing for them and please keep up the good work and continue to welcome excellent guests.

@petergibbs 2 ай бұрын

I thought Huw Merriman came across as a decent chap who really likes railways. I disagree with his views on HS2, but he did not hide behind the non-answers MPs usually give. So yes please, see if you can get a follow up interview. Your Podcast just gets better and better. A must listen to. Thanks for that.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Peter, we're pleased that you're enjoying the podcast. You're absolutely right - we certainly didn't agree with everything Huw Merriman said, but you can't deny that he's passionate about the railway.

@Phil-oj5nr 2 ай бұрын

The most common-sense conversation on the future of the British rail ever. From 18,000 plus miles from UK we have a new right leaning Government who have no plan for our railway system, and have just shut down the iRex plan to renew the infrastructure and two new RoRo ferries for Cook Strait. This is a vital link between the North and South Islands, so we are stuck with ageing secondhand ships that break down on a fairly regular basis. We need commentators like you here in NZ. We have a group that does that for Auckland, but nobody covering KiwiRail. Keep up the good work!

@MC-dn3of 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Nigel and Richard, love your podcast.

@terryskinner3982 2 ай бұрын

Another great program. How right you were to mention GNER, it was a great company to work for, and it really helps when the CEO can be found washing up to help the staff in the Restaurant car/kithcen.

@gzk6nk 2 ай бұрын

An anti privatisation argument I often hear is "a lot more public money has gone into rail post privatisation. Just think what BR could have done with a subsidy that big". My thoughts are that the extra revenue would never have gone in with BR running rail, so the point is not relevant. It took privatisation to make that investment happen, and that's a good thing. And well worth the profits the TOCs have taken. Vince Chadwick

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Vince. I suspect the real answer lies somewhere between. I think BR would have done quite a lot better than people think with the money (the sectorisation business model was just getting into it's stride) but that the people who came in on the back of privatisation added considerable. I have had plenty of chats with very senior ex BR people who say precisely that. But the next few years are likely to rove just as interesting! Cheers. Richard

@MervynPartin 2 ай бұрын

It should be remembered that leasing of trains did not begin with ROSCOs. British Rail leased the class 50s.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Really contract. almost spot hire and certainly about as far way from a modern lease (rolling stock or otherwise) as it's possible to be.

@chrishopper340 2 ай бұрын

Thank you both - entertaining and informative.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Chris. Appreciate the feedback.

@johnarnold7870 2 ай бұрын

Another great episode - thanks

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thank John. Glad you enjoyed it!

@BenRattigan 2 ай бұрын

I recently asked a question about upgrade of Sunderland station and Network Rail said ask Northern and Sunderland Council, the council said ask Northern and Northern said it was a joint effort between all parties. My own local station similar issue, council, mayoral and combined authority money, with Northern and Network Rail yet it’s hard to understand who is owning the overall outcome.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

That's a frustrating set of answers! We'll have a dig and see what we can find. Cheers.

@NuckerIThink 2 ай бұрын

I think the criticism of ROSCOs is it makes it hard for the operator to modify the trains, like add new signalling, change the layout etc. My view is that new trains should be owned by GBR, and maybe recently added in stock, though it doesn't have to be all or nothing, perhaps some stock continues to go to ROSCOs, and freight works with ROSCOs as well

@josephturner7569 2 ай бұрын

A way round that is to regulate the rolling stock companies to provide whatever is required when it is required. At their expense. Or give up their business.

@peterrichmond6133 2 ай бұрын

Great podcast chaps, good interviews to support your chatter and enjoying the quizzes.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Peter! We enjoy the quizzes too - we're constantly amazed at the huge amount of knowledge you all seem to have at your fingertips.

@DJ_K666 2 ай бұрын

Id prefer the term De-privatise rather than re-nationalise. Great idea. It is definitely a step in the right direction. I'd hope it can just regain railfreight and go back to being BR, the return of yellow ends, blue livery, Red Star Parcels and ramped platform ends. I'd draw the line at bringing back the dreaded BR sandwich though.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

I think many would draw the line at the BR Sandwich although interestingly, Roger Ford, the renowned rail observer and commentator say that BR was a pioneer in the pre-packed sandwich concept - impressive when you think how much we take pre-packed sarnies for granted these days! PS - not sure about yellow ends.......!

@DJ_K666 2 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals Absolutely we do take them for granted don't we hehe. I think it's once the journey got on a bit and the glass domes and heat caused them to wilt a bit. I definitely think they key to buying a BR sandwich was to visit the buffet car early in the journey, otherwise one's 'sandwich experience ' might have been a bit off putting. I'd certainly be after a cup of tea early on though. Thd yellow finds things is to do with visibility as once someone loses their colour vision Im told that yellow is the last to go. It allows you to spot the train approaching further away, a bright light could be anything.

@mattprentice4347 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for answering every question I had regarding labour nationalisation plans and HS2 on the other episode.Only just found this podcast but it’s excellent.

@user-ws5bn1rq2i 2 ай бұрын

Thank you Richard and Nigel. Look forward to Green Signals, every episode is a treat, as a leisure rail user and supporter. Wish you were on terrestrial TV, very professional and unbiased content. Just returned from Ivybridge by train, with only a 10 min delay at Reading, compared to the outbound journey. Mike from Royston.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Very kind, thank you. And we're delighted that you think every episode is a treat! We certainly enjoy making them.

@gzk6nk 2 ай бұрын

One way to increase fares revenue is more rigorous ticket checks. On most of my train journeys it is unusual to see any on-train ticket checks post covid. I think a major reason for this is the TOCs are no longer incentivised to maximise fares revenue and they are on management contracts and get paid regardless of ticket income. That needs to be changed.

@josephturner7569 2 ай бұрын

In France, you seldom get a single Chef de Train. They often work in pairs. So you get less anti social behaviour. In Germany, I saw an American giving the Guard a hard time. The train stopped out of course and the yank was huckled off the train by 3 cops and a dog. That is the kind of organisation you need.

@guyb3785 2 ай бұрын

Great podcast

@gordondudman240 2 ай бұрын

The insightful remarks about the private sector brining in a much sharper commercial focus rings true; if only because they tended to immediately challenge the “we’ve always done it that way” approach. I think getting Chris Green on to give an insiders view would be interesting. It’s easy to forget that he upset the BR apple cart when he was the Scottish GM. He brought a whole new ethos of getting things done. Colleagues who remained in Scotland after his departure point out just how quickly all the things he banished “write me a proposal” suddenly came back into everyday parlance.

@pauljohnson7171 2 ай бұрын

Really getting into your podcast and its all round coverage. I also really enjoyed the Huw Merrimen interview and he seemed to come across really well. After some of the stupid interview questions on Labours plans no wonder MP's don't give straight answers. BBC breakfast asked louise Haigh asked multiple times if her plan would meen the trains ran on time. She obviously couldn't commit to that as its impossible to answer. Trains don't run on time for multiple reasons including because of passengers! Also the usual BR sandwich line and how inefficient BR was, which it wasn't near the end of its existence. There have been many changes to the railway in my 38 years working on it. Some not always for the better, but where privatisation did work it was good, GNER being the prime example. The loss of Red Star parcels was a major loss though.

@josephturner7569 2 ай бұрын

The money? It's in the Carribbean. Send what's left of the navy to recover it.

@Whiskey2shots 2 ай бұрын

I do think with regards to ROSCOs people aren't saying we should buy current stock off them, but rather we should ensure we're buying them in future directly. As you have made the excellent point in this episode following the airline industry had massive impact on the railways and they too often buy their aircraft themselves. In my personal opinion it jsut doesn't make sense to habe a middleman managing stock when we can just buy it ourselves, you mentioned getting loans for cars, i see no reason the government cant do the same for trains as getting a loan gains the same benefits you mention of paying for the asset iver its lifetime but we actually get to keep the asset at the end of its oayment rather than continually paying a third party to maintain them.

@allanmorton6022 2 ай бұрын

Yet more great topics to discuss. Is your theme tune the same as a certain lamb advert?! Totally happy with your interviewing style, surely the best approach to get the best out of interviewees. Huw chat was great. Good to hear the Labour plan has promise, let's hope everyone contributes positively to its success. Agree with your views on fares reform but split tickets really need to go, but you also can't base cost just on mileage. LNER trial is still too inflexible to last. The final years of BR were still the best of both worlds when people like Chris Green were let loose. The media fixate on nationalisation as its a simple concept to understand, we just need to keep calling them out on it. GNER were ambitious and it was working well until the parent Co. went under. As tories have forgotten their union connectivity plans Labour need to ensure HS2 benefits Scotland and Wales and not just stop in Midlands. We also need some sections of bypasses in certain areas for slow parts of the main lines. The danny kruger question is tricky, can it be being caught on a train with no mask during covid? Another hour well spent with my favourite rail commentators.

@mrcogginsgarage7062 2 ай бұрын

Dan kruger who's mother is Prue Leith the cooking legend ,and was on the British Rail Board with the responsibility for catering,some say she saved us from the British Rail Sandwich,for which many thanks Prue so that's his connection to he Railways chaps.

@mrcogginsgarage7062 2 ай бұрын

Most kind of you to say so .

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Except Firefly414 doesn't have access to our email account and we get plenty of competition entries by that route.........!!!

@mrcogginsgarage7062 2 ай бұрын

I did wonder about that Richard but thought a polite reply would do no harm Talking of emails have you had mine from Hippit@ hippitpaget yet ?...

@mrcogginsgarage7062 2 ай бұрын

I did wonder Richard ,but reasoned that a polite reply would do no harm Whilst I'm here did you find my email with regards to competition? Reuben.

@josephturner7569 2 ай бұрын

In those days, stewards brought (bought) their own supplies and made sandwiches to order. Which is why you could have cheese, ham and cheese, or ham.

@rikrobson 2 ай бұрын

the tenuous link between railways and Danny Kruger is Fenton railway station. He received a fine for letting his dog Fenton chase deer in Richmond Park

@BenRattigan 2 ай бұрын

I’m glad you picked up on wording franchising, I thought it was wrong but was unsure.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Ben.

@blueskiesupnorth 2 ай бұрын

Thanks

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks ever so much, this is incredibly kind of you. 🙂

@wrangerrob 2 ай бұрын

Great series, good content. Couple of things to look at. 93001, been here a yeaar and made one trip to Crewe. What is happening? 60s again not working out the box. Were is the best fit for the ex TPE mk5s. Also the 68s handed back to Beacon Rail

@josephturner7569 2 ай бұрын

The only good thing about privatisation is that my pay spiralled. There weren't enough drivers so companies poached. None wanted to pay for training until they had to. I saw this happening so just stayed put. Other than that, it has been a complete disaster. No joined up thinking at all.

@johndavidbaldwin3075 2 ай бұрын

How flexible will the new operating system be In the 1980s I attended a regional union meeting in the early evening in Birmingham in January. The train I was supposed to catch back to Stafford (West Country to Manchester) was reported heavily delayed. Passengers on a dank and dismal New Street platform were grateful when a 304 was produced which was filling the path to Manchester.

@GreenJimll 2 ай бұрын

What happens to an "arms length" GBR separated from the DfT if things don't go well and the Secretary of States starts getting it in the ear in parliament/from the public? How long can the arms length body resist the DfT not tinkering or reeling them back in house in that case?

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Depends what the statutory powers and set up of GBR are.

@gbphil 2 ай бұрын

I may be waxing lyrical about the old days but I do remember as a 15 year old going to Paris on a single ticket / purchase in 1980 to see the England Rugby match (Grand Slam and Triple Crown that year) and that involved Bournville to Birmingham, Birmingham to Euston, tube to Victoria and Boat Train via Sealink I think from from Folkestone, as I don’t remember looking over the edge of a ship. There were negatives also when a fortnight later, we attended the final match in Edinburgh and there were only two trains back to England, one at 5pm and the other at midnight.😎😇

@simonaltham9054 2 ай бұрын

ROSCOs, do the people who complain about them seriously think we'd have even half as many shiney new trains on the network if government had to find the money to pay for them?

@josephturner7569 2 ай бұрын

Shiny maybe. Crap definitely.

@steveg5881 2 ай бұрын

Great podcast again. Would you agree that Virgin turned a utility into a pleasant experience and were able to publicise it more broadly to create revenue across the whole brand? Would sponsored trains and lines be a better way for private businesses to get involved in the railway? Please advocate to nationalise the contracts for rail replacement buses. Excellent when done by Network Rail but I always walk away when I see a First Group hi-vis vest, because I know it will be a shambles.

@macstar2010 2 ай бұрын

Privatisation bought 2 things... better safety, after a sticky start... there was accountability to one person...and Air Conditioning. Oh and others... but yes i think its time for some togetherness

@BenRattigan 2 ай бұрын

I think Nigel is to a degree correct and a comparison would be something like ITV, a private company but whose existence is dependent on Ofcom giving it franchises for each region it operates in. It’s less visible these days but Channel 3 is owned by the Government it just happens that ITV plc is consistently awarded the franchise to operate most of it. All such awards being up for renewal this year.

@jonathanratcliffe5714 2 ай бұрын

Great podcast. Loving the series. Sorry to burst your bubble but York isn't the county town of North Yorkshire, Northallerton is. York also built locomotives in the 19th century.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Jonathan. The bubble re York / Northallerton has been properly burst by quite a few regular listeners. Serious moment of humble pie eating will required on the next show..... As to building locos, that I was not aware of. Do you know specifically where in York and when? Cheers Richard

@jonathanratcliffe5714 2 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals the York and North Midland Railway works were based in Queen Street and Locomotive building continued there under the NER until 1905. Parts of the works housed the original Queen Street Railway Museum until it moved to the current NRM site. Edit: they were opened c1842. The Holgate Road carriage shops were an extension of the Queen Street works.

@Richardhill1978 2 ай бұрын

We could have gone for his mothers connection to the Travellers fare but alls his questions in parliament about Devizes station reopening

@GreenJimll 2 ай бұрын

I do wonder how quickly some of the railway's problems can be sorted, certainly within a 6-12 month time scale. For example on the Snow Hill Line routes into Brum there's been a shortage of train crew for several years. I'm led to believe (based on stakeholder discussions with WMR management a couple of years ago) that this stemmed mainly from a load of crew coming up to retirement age in 2021/22/23 that they'd planned to start replacing in late 2019 that was then stuffed up by the pandemic in 2020/21. That seems to still be dragging on in the 2nd quarter of 2024 (several trains cancelled this week for example due to lack of train crew). I'm not sure where/how a new GBR/changed DfT will get the TOC to fix this faster, seeing as WMR have been trying to fix it for several years already. Unless there's a "Strategic Reserve" of train crew hidden next to Box Tunnel that we don't know about!

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

'Trying to fix' and 'cutting through the cr*p and just getting it done' are two very different things.

@Adam-pk2te 2 ай бұрын

Great Episode as always

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thank you!

@newage3 2 ай бұрын

Any chance you boys can do a deep dive and chat about the brutal freight industry - we need help, even though we are private (Except DRS)

@stuarttyler8502 2 ай бұрын

Really good shows guys, informative and impartial. I’ve listened to your show with Hue, I listened to the show with Mick Whelan, Mick have a whole timeline of the dispute and why aslef are in dispute. my only criticism is and like you said you didn’t press Hue enough on industrial action. he clearly felt uncomfortable on this topic only choosing to mention a couple of topics really. it’s evident that tje conservatives have attacked train drivers, they have lied about salaries and used averages, companies terms and conditions are so different depending on the toc so he mentions one example and yet for other companies it doesn’t exist. The sheer fact the companies can’t blow there own noses without the dft or rdg’s say so shows you where the blame lies, with this tory government. Oh and co incidentally an election looms and they’ve asked aslef for talks. it looks like Hue and Mark Harper might grow up a bit and talk to aslef properly, probably to try and spin it and claim a victory but unless they allow tocs to open negotiations at local levels this is a total waste of time. The tories have unnecessarily attacked train drivers using the media and Hue is part of that. if you do a follow up interview I think you should press him more on this issue because they cannot continue to lie in the media like they do and be selective with the truth. They should also answer as to why they have cost the economy so much of tax payers money with these disputes but I would imagine strike action is just one part of why they will get hammered in the general election one suspects

@andrewnelson4057 2 ай бұрын

Northallerton is the County Town of North Yorkshire. NOT York.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Andrew. You are quite right of course. I fear a moment of eating humble pie will be required on the next show. Nigel is NEVER going to let me forget it! Fortunately we awarded the mug to the person who said York because it was a carriage works only and did not build locomotives.....

@andrewnelson4057 2 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals Nigel blocked me on twitter for correcting him too often....

@gzk6nk 2 ай бұрын

Quiz - His mother is Pru Leith, of BR sandwiches fame Vince Chadwick

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Thanks Vince - tune in next week for the answer and to find out who won!

@ipcress1066 2 ай бұрын

I thought the Huw interview was excellent, my only observation and I’m sorry this sounds like a criticism as you’d clearly very carefully prepared for it and only had a limited time to ask questions, but in previous podcasts you’d hammered home that HS2 2A has an Act and ready to go. Other schemes of the same scale will presumably need something similar so could be years or even decades away. I’d liked to have heard how Huw would have expected to deal with that particular bombshell. Anyway, great stuff once again 👍

@GreenJimll 2 ай бұрын

Didn't the original nationalisation of the Big Four effectively grab all the company assets for the State? I know some of the Big Four were rather short in the cash department after the end of the second minor world disagreement in 1945 so happy enough to acquiesce to this.However I remember reading that GWR were pretty miffed about it because they were in a better position post-war and complained in just those terms.

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

I don't know I'm afraid although a railway historian would. Might be worth checking out Terry Gourvish's book on BR, the first volume from 1948. However, any attempt to confiscate assets in 2024 or 2025 simply because the State wanted them would be met with a ferocious response, would be bound to fail and would have dire consequences for the standing of the Government in financial markets.

@jonathanratcliffe5714 2 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals I believe the big four shares were exchanged for British Transport stock.

@le1810 2 ай бұрын

Will the remaining franchise holders start to run down their investment and then default on the contract or just realise that there is no long term return so hand therm keys back early. Also am I right in thinking that there is the possibility of GBR going direct to the suppler bypassing the ROSCOS or will that leave them vulnerable further down the line

@gordondudman240 2 ай бұрын

TOC owners, generally plan to make their investments early on in the franchise period so that they can get the requisite pay-back.

@superted6960 2 ай бұрын

I think the main problem an incoming Labour Govt will have is resisting the temptation to intervene when, almost inevitably, something goes wrong. The railway is a complex system, and progress will be uneven and mistakes will be made. Will an under pressure minister keep his (or her) nose out and leave the railway alone to sort it? P.S. Whilst watching this the prog was interrupted twice by Labour party election broadcasts. 😂

@wcr46 2 ай бұрын

The answer given to last week’s quiz question was incorrect. The County Town of North Yorkshire isn’t York - it’s Northallerton

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

Ouch. You are absolutely correct. York was the County Town of the old Yorkshire, but Northallerton is indeed the county town of North Yorkshire. Thank goodness we awarded the prize based on who was first to say York because it was only a carriage works. And thanks for pointing out my error. I will confess to the mistake on next week's show! Cheers Richard

@796karen 2 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals York was never the county town of Yorkshire because Yorkshire was split into the three Ridings and each had their won Administrative centres. The West Riding being governed from Wakefield, the east Riding from Beverley and the North Riding from Northallerton.Historic goverance of York was as a county corporate and was not part of the Ridings system

@taipizzalord4463 2 ай бұрын

You would only want to bring inhouse the newer, and brand new trains anyway. Not the old ones. And then just bypass the ROSCOS and own any new orders trains yourself.

@davidhawkins683 2 ай бұрын

"Arms length" is just another word for unaccountable. I am shocked that you had this discussion without any discussion of a vital role that the railway plays as a component of a local integrated public transport network. A nationalized British Rail would never have produced the London Overground, the Newcastle Metro, the Elizabeth Line or the Croydon Tram network. How many people actually know that the very successful DLR is actually operated under contract by a private company ? London Transport is very far from being "arms length" it is so successful for two reasons (both of which you ignore). Firstly London Transport is run by transport professionals not amateur civil servants with degrees in Classics who change jobs every three years and secondly London Transport is democratically accountable to an elected Mayor and Assembly. Why don't you interview Andy Burnham ? He rightly wants fully integrated public transport in Manchester on the London model. I don't don't just want cheaper train tickets. I want one ticket for rail, metro, tram and bus and I don't want the bus station a mile away from the train station. Britain desperately needs INTEGRATED locally accountable public transport. Why do you refuse to even discuss it ?

@sharonedwards6641 2 ай бұрын

Interesting listen ref myths of nationalised vs private sector railway operation. Do we need to focus more on the value for money received by the uk rail passengers? Question being how can British rail services deliver value for money in line with many European countries rather than just concede how rail ticket prices will always go up? It cannot be right that ticket prices within uk can commonly exceed the costs of intercontinental air travel, accepting that not every journey can be planned well in advance with the ability to split tickets?

@Adam-pk2te 2 ай бұрын

On the ROSCOs i do see where Richard is coming from and recognise his greater knowledge and while it’s not the be all and end all, as a layman I’d hope they’d have put millions of their risk free monopoly profits back into rolling stock they’re not to be congratulated on that The financial side is irrelevant imo because where’s the financial sense in giving money to companies who have no risk and who don’t maintain the trains While the state would be well within its rights to nationalise without compensation the ROSCOs and transfer to GBR in the current neoliberal hegemony it’s never going happen in which case new train orders should be handled by GBR who can take ownership of the new trains leaving the ROSCOs to disappear eventually or buy them out as their ‘assets’ age It’s more a principle issue because why is the system that no other country has being kept why can’t GBR be like DB, SNCF, RENFE, FS, RZD. DSB. NS. OBB and SBB etc etc where everything is handled and owned by one organisation Placing the ownership and procurement of rolling stock into the hands of a few foreign pension firms who while they do invest are basically leeches is just wrong

@GreenSignals 2 ай бұрын

I fear you may be unaware of how rolling stock leasing works in mainland Europe. We're going to be doing a rolling stock special in due course but you'll find that across Europe, a great deal of rolling stock is leased. Also, you may not be aware of how the leases work. They are a financial instrument and the responsibility for maintenance rests with the lessee - there are return conditions which the lessee has to comply with at the end of the lease. Absolutely no different to a PCP arrangement for a car. But the thing I most disagree with is your comment "the State would be well within it's rights to nationalise without compensation". Not only would that be unlawful and bound to fail, even saying you were thinking of it would have serious negative consequences for the standing of government in commercial and financial markets. If you believe, as I suspect you might, that Liz Truss's mini budget was a reckless act, that would be nothing in comparison to attempting to confiscate billions of pounds of private assets. That's not to say the rolling stock leasing market can't be improved or that government shouldn't look for other options in the future. But it needs to be done in a measured and professional way.

@Adam-pk2te 2 ай бұрын

@@GreenSignals i probably am unaware I’m only a layman giving my opinion. Will be interesting to hear that future episode I look forward to it The point about maintenance was I don’t see the financial sense in adding a leasing cost on top of maintenance costs removing a pointless middle man surely would be more cost effective but also provide better national allocation and distribution of rolling stock Correct me if I’m wrong but the issue with Truss budget was her tax cuts were unfunded and that it’s a non sequitur point. But on that I’d say that markets shouldn’t be able to dictate government policy especially over something critical to national infrastructure The government definitely should look for other options if the ROSCOs have to stay for pragmatic reasons then fair enough but their recent orders should be their last GBR should order it’s own trains in future while continuing leasing the old ones with an sim to buying out the ROSCOs as and when it becomes affordable to do so

@edwinfitchett6033 2 ай бұрын

Labours plans will be meaningless unless the trade unions (not just the rail orientated ones) are in sync. If the unions want a different plan they have a lot of clout within the labour party. All discussion is just hot air until they are elected AND manage to push the plans through as proposed otherwise a very different outcome might come to pass.