Thank you :) .

Yeah, I like how in the video you also mention that 'mechanical' is a very vague definition and that it's not really too fair that anything that isn't 'mechanical' is viewed as super bad or something, as you say, there are plenty of good and high quality rubber dome boards with interesting key feel. Another great video!

@@silvrfoxie594 Not to mention that not all "mechanicals" are exactly good either. Its a very assumption based term with very dodgy results behind it. Honestly I'd be better if keyboards just specified what they all are rather than using a umbrella term that doesn't exactly work properly if it is anything not Cherry MX based.

​ @Spearra I can agree with you on that. Many people say that cherry mx brown feels like scratchy linears and I agree, I prefer my hand me down dell rubber dome keyboard over mx brown. You also have cherry mx blue which I also think feels like scratchy linears and sound horrible, it feels a tiny bit better than brown but I still prefer my hand me down dell rubber dome keyboard. I have a smith corona typewriter with foam and foil switches that feel smooth but are awful because the bottom out is mushy thanks to the foam and they are increadibly heavy too. You also have smith corona leaf springs which chyrosran22 put as number one on worst switches. You also have cherry my, next time you see someone who thinks cherry is the gold standard tell them to try cherry my, they are absolutely terrible. And then you have edge cases where for example someone says all membrane keyboards are not mechanical and that all membrane keyboards are bad and all mechanical keyboards are good, that would mean that the model m is not mechanical and is a bad keyboard, and that would also mean that topre and btc dome with slider are mechanical. Honestly I wish the term mechanical did not exist

well that's a bit rude. i'm sure that his regular speaking voice is different, but i don't think it would be that extreme

sorry, i was joking too. it's kinda hard to portray tonality through text, so i'm probably to blame for that

Kanga Roo Bob Ross of KEYBOARDsss... !!!

Eurobeat Intesifies.

if you dont CREAM yourself over them its a bad price

Still shit compared to modern Hall-effect keyboard.

Lucid Nonsense, oh yeah, I’ve been waiting on a Model F repro by Ellipse for ages ... I hope it’s not much longer. I have the high profile Topre but never really got used to it. I also have a tenkeyless Realforce and love it, but I also love my old IBM Model M and I switch between the two keyboards depending on my mood. I just can’t choose one definitively over the other.

Rob R Dunno if you still have the FC660C, but if so I recommend a swap to the BKE Redux domes for a pretty different feel ;)

Already have bud! ;) Went with the extremes since I love heavy switches & they are heavenly compared to the stock 45g Topre domes! Well at least to me since I like very heavy switches, I definitely can say they are not for everyone. Although a few people who tried my 660C at Keycon were really surprised at how comfortable & usable the extremes actually are after they get broken in.

Ah, you mean the ErgoForce? Yes, there will be a review sometime early next year :) .

I'll be talking about the sound of Topre in more depth in a future review I have planned way down the line.

Chyrosran22 Cool! Looking forward to it. If you get a chance to review a Leopold fc980c at some point, I’d love to hear your thoughts. Great videos!

Unnamed Internet Citizen with silencing rings or without? I put on the KBDfans silencers and it basically removed all the upstroke noise.

Unnamed Internet Citizen Fair enough. I definitely recommend the silencing. It really changes the sound. I’m a big fan.

leah Knight m 122

:)

Maybe give BKE Redux domes a try, you might quite like the greater tactility, and there's Heavy and Extreme weights which are heavier than the 55g stock Topre domes I think. I really like the Light domes in my Leopold.

Thanks. If one of them finds itself in my path, I'll sure give it a go.

They're ridiculously expensive though, $70 iirc. I understand it's a small run, but still - eff me sideways, I just picked up a model F for that much shipped.

they are not the greatest for gaming or super fast repeated key presses

You *do* know that you can get brand new Model Ms, right? And beyond that, you can even either grease mod or floss mod them to quiet them considerably. I've tried Topre switches, and although they're actually really nice, $230+ is not a good price for what it is. I may get a few clones and see if they're any better.

I know about the Unicomps but from what i saw these were made a lot cheaper than the 80's M. More like mid 90's Mexican made things with flimsy plastic. I just saw some videos on silenced M's but it's still way too loud for an office with several people in it.

Ehh, I have a Unicomp as well as a true IBM made, and although they are cheaper, they are really good boards despite that. They feel well made, and they felt a lot better built than modern mechanicals. But, I respect what ya type on nonetheless. Cheers!

Also the plastic doesn't seem to be any different to me. I'm using a Model M 122 terminal keyboard as I write this. My other half uses this computer as well, and therefore I needed to replace some of the keys to have more modern legends (Of course, yes, I kept the original ones). The colors match perfectly (IBM pebble and pearl keys) and the plastic feels perfect in terms of texture and rigidity. They are just like the originals and come in a two piece design: keycap and key. The only difference at all is the typeface on the keys. It is slightly different and not as sharp. Other than that's perfect. The only keys by Unicomp that I don't care a lot for are the single piece grey ones. They're not bad, it's just that they don't really work well on the original Model Ms in some cases and I don't find there to be enough contrast between the legends and the key color.

That is something I can 100% agree on. I got this Model M from a yard asale for about $40 and ity was missing a few grey keycaps. I just plopped those on and they don't fit the look of 1980s at *all.* They fit, but at least it looks better than just a few gray squares.

I've always used all ten fingers for my keyboards :p . The thumb thing is something I'm getting more used to, though xD .

Yep it is possible to have the board's firmware control the actuation depth. Newer Realforce boards can do this, and my Leopold FC660C with a Hasu controller has some adjustment capability via the QMK files. I like to keep the actuation point in mine just 1 'notch' higher than stock though, it's mainly useful if you want to swap to BKE domes which have a different percieved collapse point.

bamdadkhan there's an email address in my last APT video. You can order them from her.

awesome, thank you. ^^

Technically you could just dye them. PBT lends itself reasonably well to dyeing. Of course, the lettering will still be dark.

I'll look around for dying methods then, and this whole project of mine promises to be Arts&Crafts-y... Thanks for the reply, and thanks for an excellent video.

They are basically Topre clones from what I understood, but I don't own any myself.

I believe they use very light and not so tactile 35g domes, but you can get a pack of BKE Redux domes if you wish which are really really tactile. RC930 and Plum87 are listed as compatible with them. I want to try and get a cheap Topre clone keyboard at some point, I often tend to like really light switches so I might get on well with a Plum board.

GurtTarctor Will be ever be able to see sub 100€ Topre clones? Atm i have a Rantopad Mxx (Gateron Red) paid 45€, i also tried keyboards with Outemu blue switches (is worse than a Razer Green, a Gateron Blue or a Cherry Blue IMO, IDK why but i find the Outemu's sound and feel pretty unpleasant), Romer G, Razer switches and Cherry switches

Cheap Gateron boards are a pretty solid buy, I had a Plum 75% board from Aliexpress that had Gateron Red switches and decent PBT caps, quite cheap too. Not sure about getting the clones cheap though, does seem like they can be around that price, just a case of getting a good rate of delivery to where you are. I would definitely recommend checking out the Mechmarket reddit for good deals on unwanted keyboards - www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/search?q=%5BEU%5D%20Plum&restrict_sr=1

I have a Royal Kludge RC930-87 keyboard (that I'm typing on rn). I bought it while in China for under 100 USD. Unfortunately, I accidentally got the 35g instead of the 45g, so it is a pretty light board to type on, and most places only sell it in the 35g and 45g variants (even though they are sometimes listed as "45g" and "55g"). Let me know if you have any questions.

I already have! :)

Chyrosran22 what's your opinion on them? I currently have lights in my fc660c and I have yet to find something that can beat the tactile feel.

They feel much snappier, quite close to the way BTC dome with slider feel. I my opinion it's definitely an upgrade, but if you like the rounded feel on Topre, then you won't like it.

They're also $70 unless you have the voice of a Greek god and run a youtube channel reviewing keyboards ;) I've just picked up a model F for that much, shipped (gets here in a few hours, in fact). Might just be a tad better value than a hundred rubber nipples ;)

Obviously if sound is the primary concern you wouldn't get this model or at least not use it stock. I do have a video like that in the works actually, but it's faced a few setbacks.

@@Chyrosran22 I'm a bit confused, the topre realforce is supposed to be one of the quitest options you can buy that still has a decent feel. Or maybe that's just the quiet model? m.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rdN3p5yWqsyyYKs.html

You should probably check out his 'what is a mechanical switch' video. The point being there is no real definition of what makes a switch 'mechanical'.

Kamil Szabo, I hate those HP keyboards with a passion. I too used bash on them out of frustration with slow corporate PCs and when key presses on the older ones would fail to register (probably due to everyone bashing on them). Sadly we were barred from using personal keyboards due to some undefined security risk.

Weren't we colleagues at some point? :D I was using my own keyboard too (it was not that good, but I did not know this channel that time so I did not know any better - Logitech k810) and then they forbid all peripherals. Though my HP keyboard was new, and I think it registered every time.

As an unintentional hipster, I used to write the first draft of my high school essays on a 1960s Smith Corona manual portable typewriter. Bottoming out is what you had to do on such a beast. If you didn't press the keys with all your might, then the strikers wouldn't push through the ink and onto the paper properly. This means the light touch activation of modern keyboards is a new thing.

I used to have a heavy hand also, using strong keys like the cherry mx clears helped me controlling that and now I can type in much lighter keyboards without bottoming out

Hear, hear!

Eh. Not for me.

Mr. Nobody is there any source that you can provide to such claim? Sounds counterintuitive to me

Ask anyone who has been trained on playing any musical instruments involving the using of fingers, you will be told so, I myself play piano, believe me I know alot about fingers.

@@mr.nobody6829 ok finger expert name more than 5 fingers

As guitarist, yeah - this is usually considered to be the case and is one of the things that puts me off the Realforce concept - the ring finger isn't stronger than the little/pinkie finger. I actually have the NIZ Plum Topre clone board with the optional springs set only under the index and middle finger keys, kind of approximating the Realforce idea but acknowledging the weakness of the ring finger. After experimenting a little with the springs this seems the most balanced to me. But I guess individual differences come into play too.

HHKB is made in Japan as well.

Isn’t filco also made in japan?

@@paianis on yeah that one too by the way I just bought a Japanese layout Topre Realforce 106UB I can’t wait to try it

@@vcxz4009 made in Taiwan

I'm quite interested in them. If I get one, I'll definitely be doing a review of them, at least.

They also already have conductive pads in them, which would be in the way.

BTC's work with conductive pads on the PCB, not capsense ones.

I would assume so. I can't make it flicker by hovering over the actuation point, at least.

I'm not sure but I think it might be something programmed into the firmware, I guess it wouldn't be too difficult for them to have done that. I've raised my actuation point a little with the Hasu controller on my FC660C, to match the BKE domes more closely, and I'm pretty sure there's some automatic hysteresis going on as I never notice the slightest bit of chatter. Joyful. Ah I've just found this post by Hasu himself over on Deskthority - "Topre makes hysteresis by changing threshold of sensor chip TP1684/1683, which has two different thresholds for each down and up stroke. Keyboard controller firmware controls the threshold depending on key state(down or up stroke). On Topre key sense value changes almost linearly, you would have teribble chatter without hysteresis. I can't refer to any exact numbers or graph, but I won't say Topre hysteresis is very small in comparison with other mechanical switches like alps cherry . Meanwhile capacitance changes drastically and undetermined state can't retain long due to buckling spring mechanism. I'm not sure IBM capacitive sense internals but they won't need hysteresis in controller firmware and sensor chip unless key matrix is scanned in very fast rate. In other words hysteresis of IBM comes purely from bucking spring mechanically. This is my research log on geekhack. geekhack.org/index.php?topic=76...msg1894368" So there we go! :D