Yeah, it was actually at this very unfortunate time when we found out that the e-brake failed sometime recently. It's fixed now. Luckily the complete lack of traction of the coal pile just sends us strait back down the way we came.

Don't think auto Dccd came to North america market but previous gens came with viscous LSDs also heard they were mediocre lol

In that loose gravel with low range they will be so slow that will not climb the half of what they did.what they need is manual tranny and a turbo

Right

I have some similar size you're asking about, without any mods on my 2014 outback. but recommend you to use 225 instead, as there is no advantage in using wider one.

You got one on yours yet Fox?

bruceyyyyy I don’t unfortunately. To do it properly, i think I would also need to upgrade the center diff with either a 12kg or 20kg unit. And those are a bit spendy.

@@ModFoz that's exactly why I haven't swapped my gearbox out to a dual range. Without the center diff swap, you're still getting outperformed by an auto.

Tyler Scranton I wouldn’t say that at all, lol. My old XT was a 4EAT. While true the 4EAT is much better than the standard 5-speed, the dual-range is leaps and bounds better than the 4EAT.

I've pre ordered a torq locker to put in my 5mt 1.59:1 dual range + 20kg centre equipped outback. I can't wait.

Thats one way to get the torque we're missing. I'd be down

@@powerofyourbrains What about my old electric supercharger?

That double hill did reveal some character about how the MPT works, although it was certainly a torture test... JonDZ Adventuring has a video that compares the torq locker on a less impossible ascent...nothing short of a back hoe could have made it up that coal mound with relying strictly on momentum

Nah I went with a Kia soul and gutted a brand new jeep Rubicon and put all the parts on the soul. Now that Kia soul can go everywhere. I didn't like the way the jeep looked.

That's sorta what I thought too, but we called it even in an effort to be fair given all the dust. You can definitely tell that Granny kept pushing on while the H6 started to run out of steam. Satisfactory result in my book considering the power difference between the two cars, and the fact that the outback had a lot more speed going in because of it. A better test would have been a hill where traction was actually a possibility

No, more work on the drive train😅

@@veganpotterthevegan nope more traction equals more wear. Well I guess it depends how you look at it. If you can drive it slower due to more traction from less pressure then it's less wear but if you're driving it the same then the opposite applies

10-15

It's because the angle we're driving up steadily increases in slope with less traction available to both front wheels and a lot traction to the back wheels. Once one of the front wheels break loose, the center coupler is overwhelmed and cannot transfer 100% of the power even when locked.

@@powerofyourbrains Makes sense. Thanks.

@bruceyyyyy

i'm wondering something with ECU and calculate of angle of the car. also there is some ecutek mod to give more power to the rear.. not for the newer car yet.

I did the same test last year and it resulted in diagonal spin but the car couldn't go any further

@@bruceyyyyy I think you were exhibiting the same issue Granny had due to that particular geography

That is certainly our intent

The center diff probably isn't fully locking. Even with a switch the clutch packs in the center diff can wear and start to slip. When that happens the entire rear can loose power while the front, which is direct drive, will still work. Only the old School 4WD transmissions can actually 100% lock up the center diff without worry of clutch packs wearing out since the old school 4WD transmissions don't have clutch packs.

Yeah the centre viscous coupler was slipping causing most of the torque to be sent to the front wheels.

We'll see what we can do. Would be an interesting test. Would love to throw Blubaru with her VTD into the mix also to see what difference the that makes vs. the MPT.

These were both relatively flat obstacles that even a stock Subaru could attempt. Given that, I think it's interesting how well Granny did with roughly half the power of the Outback's H6.

Power isn't always everything. This was a test of the diffs anyways...

@@ethan928 This comment mainly pertained to the coal hill in hindsight. Power was absolutely a factor there, since both cars seemed to effectively have the same traction.

Then why wasn't the video title, 260hp h6 outback vs stock na 150hp forester up hill challenge?

In this test, it was the CD which was the weak point even though he has the switch - it couldn't transfer enough to the rear, so you having a DCCD wouldn't help.

First I'd just say that this was a torture test. It's hard to tell why on camera, but just watch some of our other videos and you'll see that this is not really a concern unless you use your car like an ATV (as we do). Second, your car is different from either of the cars here because you have VTD (this is good). Your limitation would be the torque converter, not the transfer clutch. Third, autos are the way to go off-road because of the torque converter. You get as much or more torque multiplication (to the ground) out of torque converter models than you do with manuals with the import low-range. Manuals without low range (e.g., almost all manual Subarus) don't hold a candle to any model with a torque converter (including the ones in this video).

The 11 outback has the 5eat auto not CVT. But it doesnt have xmode either. I would keep it over any manual options.

I can see why you'd think that

Unfortunately the dual range Subaru hasn't been available in the US since 1990.

I can see why you'd say that, but that obstacle was basically a torture test that we had to specifically seek out which revealed this characteristic of mpt centers. Doesn't really come across on camera what's happening either. We were climbing up 2 inclines; one was about 30 degrees, the other was closer to 45. Not an impossible climb per say, but to make it up on that line it would require lockers in both the front and rear diffs and probably low range too.

Where did you get your front LSD and what type of LSD is it?

@@AWDfreak it's the stock one

@@1483Frenchman As far as I know, only the WRX STi has ever come with a standard front LSD.

@@AWDfreak some Outbacks with the winter package, and the 5 speed manual had LSD's in the front. My VIN even states it, and I've tested it myself

There's a build walkaround video we made last year that explains it pretty thoroughly if you'd like to check that out (on the "mods for people with short attention spans" playlist).

Yes, we are. In the diff lock video we talk about how the true purpose of the center diff lock is preventing shock load damage. MPTs are not capable of transferring 100% torque to the rear let alone more than that due to the effect of the rear locker, so it's really not that surprising.

@@powerofyourbrains But even if it can only transfer 50% of power to the rear, shouldn't that be enough to get wheel spin? Are you saying the rear tires had traction but the engine couldn't muster enough torque to move them? Or is it that the center diff was slipping so not enough torque was getting back there?

@@Abbbb225 The result would be different if we also had a locker in the front. But because the front is open, a wheel spinning means that more than 50% is being sent rear.

@@powerofyourbrains Did you mean "no more than 50%?"

@@Abbbb225 nope

its because they put some shitty cvt in it stupidest decision ever by Subaru

Ultimately on this hill it's about how crazy you are, not so much about traction

Thanks! Always more ideas than there is time to execute them, but we try.

Yes

Unfortunately, the 4.44 final drive that Granny has already is the highest (or lowest, the terminology is confusing) gearing that Subaru has made, with no aftermarket options. Suppose we could get a set custom made but... We don't have that kinda cash. Lol Subarus low range is sweet if you're willing to put some money into it, but withoutquite a bit of work it's comparable to the auto in performance. We've no doubt a proper 4x4 would outperform us but... That's not what we're about. :D

Can someone buy Granny a dual range??

@@astod9161 We could get a dual range for her pretty easily but, like I said, it's just not worth it for us without putting money into it. The center diff would need swapped out for a more aggressive unit to keep up with a locked MPT center. Sure we could put in a 4.44 final drive, and the swap the center, but that's not cheap. We'd also get the option to run a front LSD but again not cheap. And not to mention the reliability difference between the 4EAT and 5MT (the 4EAT is much much less likely to break in the middle of the woods)

@@astod9161 We've had opportunities, but a conversion isn't something we're interested in for many reasons. With 4.44 gears the torque converter outperforms all but the lowest ratio low ranges Subaru has offered, and we'd be better off just installing a high-stall torque converter instead because of that. The center slip was only revealed on what was more or less a torture test, and we can alleviate that with a VTD swap if we so choose (at the expense of snapping axles...). Mainly though, granny was built to send it. She'll never be the best careful crawler, but she's great at blasting up gnarly terrain.

I have an forester xt 2018...and the cvt is the biggest bullshit on earth

It did lock up again, but good traction with the locker does cause back torque, which was that noise you heard. We should probably change the trans oil, but I'm confident that the plates are still intact. For autos with the locker, a 3 way switch setup for the diff locker might just be in order. You'll see more in an episode soon to come

@@powerofyourbrains Trans oil is an interesting thought, since last time I serviced this I put the Valvoline "red bottle" high mileage stuff in, since it's annoying to drive to the dealer for trans fluid, and the Subaru stuff is a little expensive.

It sounds like the hook for the winch might be clacking against the skid plate. Just my observation

You are indeed no expert, so why call him an idiot? The clacking is the torq locker ratchet

Was wondering the samething

Exactly

That forester is gen 1...97-2003 I think. It sure has lasted a long time. You don't see too many Ford explorers of that era!

Are you referring to the rear diff or center diff? Should be possible to lock up either. CVT is the transmission - locking that up just means you won't be able to go anywhere :)

@@powerofyourbrains Is there a center diff on the manual trans model 2018 or newer that can be locked with a switch? Sorry for being so uneducated in all of this

@@LarryRichelli Hey, no worries. Unfortunately there is not. The only manual Subaru that could be modded to provide some center lockup is the STi

We're good with being pg-13. It's lazier, and censoring is annoying.

37.8969640, -81.8992500

@@powerofyourbrains

Wrong. Unless you're tires are connected together by tracks

@@powerofyourbrains Locked with deep tread and "without so much momentum" as your Subs require. Yes I would be able to walk up it compared to what you are doing.

@@underthelibertytree712 I understand that most Subarus don't have low range. I'm talking about gravity man, they are not the same thing lol

@@powerofyourbrains you can thank the CVT for the lack of low torque end range.

The cvt really does hold the car bad. Im being serious. i had a 2013 2.0i premium 5 speed and that thing went everywhere. But my dads forester with no xmode and a cvt couldnt do half of what i could do because the cvt wasnt capable. my 5 speed i could just do whatever. I had complete control. his cvt is just L and D

Andrew kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fL1pgqVhs6e2lJ8.html

@@Traumatree If I'm not mistaken the tires are 245/70 R17 and they are Falken Wildpark A/T tires. They went with a really aggressive off road setup and it looks so cool.

CVT is intended for better fuel economy but lacks a lower torque end.

hardened steel notches kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gMmSdL2AxtGdZ2g.html

@@veganpotterthevegan Funny you say that but a number of us were on quite a tough track today. I went up an incline with some nasty ruts in a Jeep Grand Cherokee with front, centre and back lockers without much trouble and one of the young fellas with my group tried it after me in his Nissan Navara with open diffs, he had to do the rest of the track on one wheel after blowing out a CV . You're right that anyone can get stuck or damage their rig but I suggest knowing your car and your own abilities, the four 4x4s with me and the next five 4x4s that followed us all thought it best to take the chook track around that obstacle . Don't get me wrong, I'm not blowing my own trumpet here, I just knew my car would do it and my young friend tried pushing his car a bit too hard which put all the others off the idea of possibly damaging their cars as I was the only one with lockers and I respect their decision....... Subarus are good cars but I honestly wouldn't of tried that part of the track in one........I think today's run is a pretty good example of what I've tried to say in my earlier statement.