Don't forget, you pay that $5k for the battery when you buy it and AGAIN when you REPLACE it. The initial price of the hybrid is MORE than the gas engine, not less.

@@ginakerry2588 True, but not $5k more. How much more depends on the model but might be as little as $1k more. Hybrids also have significantly lower maintenance costs aside from the battery. Brakes last 2-3 times longer due to regenerative braking, there is no drive belt to replace every few years, the transmission is more reliable and easier to change fluid on, etc. Add all that to the fuel savings and even with a battery change you’re probably ahead with a hybrid. But most first owners aren’t going to keep the car the 15-20 years to need that battery anyway. The average car purchased new is kept for seven years.

Mmytacist, I won't argue with your experience, how could I? But just for consideration, as I mentioned to Gina, hybrids have lower maintenance costs in general as well as the fuel savings. The 2023 Sienna gets 36 mpg for real, and has more HP then your Sienna that prob. gets 20mpg or so. The brakes will last 2-3 times as long, so prob 70-100k for front and 150k+ for rear. There's no drive belt to change. The transmission is more reliable and less expensive to maintain. All the pumps etc (water, AC compressor) are electric instead of mechanical and tend to last the life of the vehicle. So you save a lot on maintenance and repairs. The batteries are longer-lasting and less expensive than people think. Toyota learned a lot from the early Prius batteries, and the ones you get now should last at least 15-20 years as long as you keep the fan filter cleaned and don't block the cooling vents (location varies by vehicle). If you do end up needing a replacement, you're not going to pay a dealer to install an OEM battery on a 20yo vehicle, and a quality aftermarket job will be about half or $2500ish. A cheap aftermarket job (with a partially rebuilt battery warranted for only a year) can be had for $1500ish. Something else to consider is that to meet the ever increasing EPA mpg requirements, engines in new ICE models have features that significantly reduce their reliability and lifespan. Try finding a car that isn't turbocharged, which runs hotter and has oil/fuel dilution issues. Or try finding a car without engine stop/start, which is going to wear the starter and the engine out sooner. Or "eco" mode that powers off some cylinders when not needed - saves gas, but horrible for the engine. Toyota and most other brands of hybrids don't have engines with these issues, since they use the hybrid system to get the required mpg. And the Toyota hybrid power train is exceptionally reliable.

@@ginakerry2588 I had the 15 accord hybrid, and I paid $3k more than a regular accord, and I had it for 8 years and 2 years left for warranty (10 years + 150K miles in my state) but when I heard that it would cost $4K to replace it, I sold it. overall, I saved around $3k In gas compared to a regular accord. So, the savings from gas just covered the upfront cost. When I bought mine 8 years ago, I was expecting that the cost of battery would come down a lot.. like all other technologies but it is not the case for the battery. I love my hybrid, but from the $$ standpoint, it is not making sense. if you want to save environment, it makes total sense. I don't think that I will get another hybrid anytime soon.

Aftermarket is the way to go.

But you saved the planet….thank you.

@@griswald7156 Save the planet??? If you know how these batteries were made and how they were buried later.

Sarcasm...

@@kenty6973 darkrulier i worry about waiting hours in a car charge at night.. I worry about being in a battery car when it explodes.. I worry about it stopping in a live lane on the motorway.. The joy of a battery car is very short lived… It must feel like back to the future when you buy one…and back to the past after you’ve bought it.. They recycle old batteries.

I think an EV battery would be even deeper into your wallet, good thing you had an hybrid..

Older priuses were having battery cells die around the 180,000 mile mark. Which is why the warranty used to be 8 years, and some people did have to use the warranty before then.

You know that warranty was prorated.

As gas prices rise it will cost $100 per 15 gallons on mid size sedan or minisuv. Thats $200 a month or 2.4k a year. Hybrid will save you $10k on gas. The only downside is the $5000 battery and the initial higher cost. For people who dont drive much hybrids will break even. For people who drive alot. Hybrids are a no brainer.

@@zlonewolf I personally love them. My wife drives a RAV4 hybrid, and I just got my Grand Highlander hybrid. 40 mpg in mixed city hiway driving. That is more than double what my highlander was getting.

I doubt gas prices will rise to $6.66 per gallon anytime soon.

Thx man

have you estimated your fuel savings overall? just curious

Have you considered that a recond battery is almost certain to fail in a very very much shorter time than the original ? But I would like to know your savings in fuel as comparison to a full combustion engined non EV vehicle? I would also like to know what your tyre wear was in comparison to non EV.

I replaceed my 2005 Prius battery at a little over 180k miles at a dealer at slightly under$3500. now my car is over 35k miles. I replaced front brake pads 1st time at 220k miles and the real drum pads at 280k miles

@@LowestDifficultyI’ve never estimated it too specifically. I’m actually a fairly low mileage driver so I wouldn’t be saving as much as someone else driving more. If I hadn’t bought the Prius I probably would have bought a non-hybrid Corolla - which is smaller but with fuel efficiency numbers close to the Prius! But a different driver might have bought a bigger car SUV or minivan. So in terms of savings… I probably only spent about CAD$1200 per year (2.5 fills a month at an average of $40 a fill). In a different car (ICE Odyssey) it probably would have been about $2400 a year. Or ICE Corolla maybe $1500 a year. versus a Corolla that’s $3900 over 13 years. Versus the Odyssey that’s $15600. I’m doing a lot of estimating here so I could be off a bit. The Prius had very low maintenance… the worst was the 12V battery which needed replacing every 3 or 4 years but was a non-standard shape so pricier than it should be. I did have a coolant pump replacement that cost about $900. I had the brakes serviced a few times and full brake job just once. (I used to live in a hilly city any my old Corolla need brake pads every year or two! Now living in a much flatter city.)

@@Rob-fx2dwI do expect the used battery will fail in a smaller number of years. I don’t know what to estimate… 4 years? When that happens I think the car will be scrap. 17 years isn’t so bad for a car.

I was thinking the same thing as far as lasting me the rest of my life, but I got a new Corolla LE. Only Toyota I could afford, but I figured I don't have to drive in bad weather back and forth to work anymore so I don't need AWD. Got out from under an Outback that did me good for 15 years but rust was setting in bad. The new corolla isn't a hybrid but I live in the country and am getting around 45 mpg driving around 40-50 mph roads for the great amount of time. I won't be driving it in the winter when they put salt down. I can reschedule any appointments for when the roads are clear and dry. It should be my last car. Only thing I don't like so far is getting in and out and I am even starting to get used to the car steering itself. LOL

@@audiogeneralWe own a Corolla LE and a Venza. Our Corolla gets 36 mpg on highway and probably a bit less in city. Don’t understand how you get that gas mileage

@@LivingInAnInverseReality I don't know, is it new 2023, have a cvt tranny? If It is and you only get 36 you should have someone take a look at it. Toyota says you should get 41 on the highway(at highway speed). I am driving on roads that are between 40 and 50 mph sometimes 30 mph not 75 on the highway that is why it is above 41 mpg highway rating that Toyota specs. 32 is the spec for city mileage. I will say that the mileage I state is coming from the trip computer. I am currently checking this against fuel/miles calculation way over a full tank but I can't imagine it being very much different. On a couple instances of driving very conservatively over about 20 mile trip the computer said that the mileage for the trip was 50 mpg. The sweet spot for the best mileage for most vehicles is between 30 to 50 mph the closer to a steady speed the better as accelerating uses a lot of gas.

@@audiogeneral Yes, it’s a 2022 with CVT. Maybe my wife has a led foot. I drive the Venza, it gets 39 mpg average. Your ICE car does better than my hybrid.

Well I've heard the opposite....They can have very expensive trouble....way lower resale and trade-in...because everyone knows the batteries installed with labor and everything is 6000+...Hybrids are not worth the risk..

You been got your money worth.And the batteries are very sturdy.

Prius is prime example of a entire car designed for fuel economy and then claim "See hybrid is much better". Disregarding that without the hybrid system the same car would be very very fuel efficient too. And 100kg+ less mass! And a lot cheaper and a lot less polluting to produce.

If you are referring to the corrosion issue of the cable, my understanding is that the issue has been fixed. I bought a 2022 Toyota Venza (basically the same vehicle as the RAV4, just a slightly different body and maybe a fancier interior), so I was concerned about this too back when I was buying it (June 2022). I found a KZfaq video of a mechanic who was going over the various features of the Venza & he mentioned the cable corrosion problem and explained how it had been fixed in the 2022 model. He also mentioned that it's the same issue experienced in the older RAV4s. I've read before that KZfaq won't let you include links, so in case this link doesn't show up or work, you can find the video on "The Car Care Nut" KZfaq channel, and the video is titled "THIS Toyota New Model is a Total Hidden Gem! Should've Been a Lexus!". The 14:54 minute mark is where he talks about the cable. I hope this helps! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pr6dpqaKr5q2mJc.htmlsi=OEOT22O6qpfA4N3O

They are also worse for the environment where the batteries corrode and runoff, are not financially feasible to recycle, and where they are mined. It also involves huge profits going to China and a big push by China for hybrids in any country dumb enough to buy them, and it also support child slave labor in dangerous and deadly working conditions. The extra weight also adds more taxes since the roads break down further. We already pay a gas tax for this reason, as more people switch to hybrids+ev you can bet they will add a road tax on electric as well. The only sure things in life are death and taxes.

In addition,making all of these industrial products in China threatens the oceans around the world. It's a well known fact that you can dump anything, anywhere in China as long as you grease the right palms. Rivers are just so convenient to rid themselves of waste products. That's not very green.

What are you talking about? A brand new car is like $25,000-$30,000 at the cheapest. Some more expensive ones that aren’t even luxury cars I’ve seen $50,000 to $100,000. On the other hand, rebuilding an engine or transmission is like $2,000 to $6,000. And those are the probably most expensive repairs you can do. So you can potentially rebuild both the engine and transmission twice each and still spend less money than a cheap brand new car. And if you rebuild the engine and transmission just once in a car at some point in its life, it can last well over 250k miles, if it’s a good brand like Toyota AND you take good care of it.

Thats dumb ...new cars depreciate like crazy.... do the math....a lot of repairs can be done yourself...if you can watch KZfaq and turn a wrench...you saying "it actually makes sense to buy new".... tells me you are clueless...

I agree with you...this guy is small minded...@@ezekielanderson9055

I drove my 2011 Camry for 130K miles. Replaced the brakes at 110K miles! A couple of batteries. Batteries typically last 3-4 years no matter the vehicle. I sold my car 6 months ago for $11,250 and bought an older 2008 Solara Convertible for 13K with 60K miles on it. Talking about a win-win. That was a win-win!

Why would any vehicle buyer want to get into this hassle?

OMG - that price is an obscenity. My local Toyota dealer quoted me $3500 to replace my rear AWD system on my 2011 Venza because it was noisy. Fixed it myself with a bearing worth less than a hundred bucks. Love the vehicle, not so happy with their idea of customer care on the service side...

a uTuber named ChrisFix has done a hybrid battery replacement video. Not the hardest thing to do. The 5k pricing is to be expected from dealer service. Also, I'd suspect as the vehicle ages, the cost will go down. I agree with your approach on finding a reputable aftermarket battery. Merci

Yeah sure, because the price of everything ALWAYS GOES DOWN.😂😂😂

@@ginakerry2588 Huh? I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. Dealer repairs are always more expensive than independent shops, I was just pointing out (correctly) that the dealer markup here is beyond anything reasonable. What does inflation have to do with that at all? “😂😂😂” back at you.

@@ginakerry2588 Ah, I suspect you were replying to biz4twobiz. Well, he’s right. Currently for this new a car, there’s a very low demand for replacement batteries. So there are not going to be many made by companies other than Toyota. As the car ages, demand for batteries will increase, causing more companies to make them, increasing supply and competition, which lowers the price. Basic economics.

​@biz4twobiz463, about 2-3 weeks ago, I called an AZ dealer for a hybrid battery price no labor, and they said it would cost me $3,750. That's expensive 😮

😊😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😅😅😮😮😮😮😮😮😮

LOL have you ever tried to get any of these insurance claims? Ever read the fine prints? I am sure they will also say if dented/scratch it is not covered on manufacture warranty. How about that battery replacement for a Hyundai costing 60K, a cost more than the actual purchase price of the car with its initial battery. It happened to two customer, same amount. The battery wasn't even damage one of them just got a scratch on the battery cover. Just wait once there is a complete mandate to transition everything will be more expensive than they are now.

Thx

Which model are you driving and how many miles are on it?

@@gregpanke3752 I own a low milage ( 150.000 km ) Auris Hybride ( European 'Baby' Prius with Prius driveline ) that was imported from Germany to the Netherlands. They are not on the market anymore as Auris, but changed back under their old name Corolla.

On the Mit Colt (2006) i had in the past, with ZERO economy features, the original brakes lasted 180K km with a lot of city driving. I mean really a lot of city driving.

Good question!!

Planned obsolence, Toyota is no longer a brand marketed for quality. They are now just the best of the worst. Just look at what they did to the Tundra.

Does every single RAV4 charging cable corrode. Mine is in perfect condition still. Do you have the official stats on the corrosion as in corrosion per number of vehicles.

@@johnmartin7158 only in cold weather areas that salt the roads in winter. There are a few class action law suits. One in Quebec and one in the US

Warranty for cable has been extended to 8 years/160 K km (Customer Support Program 22TE09 for 2019-2022 Rav4), so it's not a problem anymore.

Absolutely correct. I live in Montreal and here Honda dealer charge $125 plus taxes per hour.. which is very expensive!!

Correct! Annoying to see the jod details labor is more expensive than parts!

What do you think the labor rate will be in 7 years when you have that battery replaced the next time?? Hilarious how posters here try to convince you it will be CHEAPER in 7 or 8 yrs to replace a battery .😂😂

How do you know if you buy a 6 to 8 years old ICE vehicle that the transmission isn't going to go at any time also? Or the engine for that matter.

@@henryhonda8408 Same can be said about a hybrid at that age with the ADDED expense of a failed battery. Nice try!!!

@@henryhonda8408 It's mind blowing that you thought this comment was even logical. We know the expected lifespans of hybrid batteries and older transmissions and engines. Toyota was always very iterative and had strict quality control in their engine designs meaning their engines and transmissions will last in many cases 25+years with regular maintenance unless it was a model year where something went wrong at the factory. You can already see the market values of older Teslas, priuses, and camry hybrid and electric vehicles vs ICE vehicles like a Forerunner. You will lose a huge amount of your vehicle's value through depreciation, since only an uninformed person, a rich person who likes to throw money away, or an idiot would buy a used hybrid or EV because of the risk of buying a money pit that hybrid and electrical components are and the increased cost of labor for those components, and the lack of non-dealer mechanics even willing to work on those components.

Perhaps your wife says the same about you and she wants a younger trade in.

A@@gyahahaandkyahaha1345 Apparently there's a lot of idiots out there because hybrids (especially Toyotas) resale values are incredibly high. Maybe you should check the mirror and you may spot an idiot. 🤔🙃

Not sure if it is necessary but I'd do it anyways. Every 60-90k or 6-9 years. Whatever is sooner

Keep the older,easier on the eyes '21. The V-8 is thirsty but reliable.

Oh for sure. Better value on all accounts

@@ToyotaWorld thank you🙏

agree

Looking at the ads for the companies that rebuild hybrid batteries, it looks like they do most of their business with the older models. Getting parts may be a problem after 20 years, but definitely not after ten.

what is an average life of hybrid battery and how much ro rebuild ?@@gregpanke3752

And you still have a engine and transmission to worry about

Thank you that’s great

I had a lithium ion battery in my previous hybrid. If the temp got lower than -20C my dash light up like a Christmas tree with all kinds of warnings etc. I took at least about an hour of steady driving before that effect stopped. If it was -30C then forget it, it wouldn't shut off even after 3 hours of driving. So watch what you. wish for. The nickel hydride batteries in my Rav4 hybrid are perfect with no problems at all in extreme cold temps.

Why? Lithium Ion chemistry is a fire waiting to happen

Lead acid work in even colder temps than those.

You can not without reprogramming ECU

Yaris disel 60 mil pro gal

I'm researching before making this new vehicle purchase. They are NOT driveable at all when the battery is dead.

The need to drive a hybrid regularly seems to be a common comment. Leaving them in the driveway for long periods is not healthy for the battery. The other fairly common comment is that really hot weather, as they have in the southern US states, may be a problem as well. On the other hand they likely don't have the rust related issues that those of us in Eastern Canada and NE US have with salted roads.

​@@gregpanke3752 even diesel engines need to be driven long rides to prevent buildup

The weight of a RAV4 hybrid (HEV not PHEV) battery in the new models is

The cost of the Hybrid braking system is $5,000

2019 Lexus ES400h w same hybrid powertrain as RAV4 and is rated at 43 city, 44 highway. I’ve managed almost 49 mpg over a trip from Cleveland to Charlotte. Many advantages with hybrids over ICE.

@@valueprovider I can still buy a lot of extra fuel with that $5000. Add the extra purchase cost of the hybrid on top of this and I don't see how a hybrid can pay for itself.

Not just that, but the high voltage cables are corroding and cost 6k.

The petrol only version is pretty gutless. It’s not just the finances, the driving experience of the Hybrids whether it’s HEV or PHEV is far superior. A lot more gruntier and powerful.

Get a V6 guaranteed not to be gutless. When people talk about saving $5k on gas they are not counting it correctly. The only gas savings is the difference between for instance 35mpg non hybrid vs 50mpg hybrid. Hybrid doesn't even double your gas mileage. So if it gets you an extra 15mpg, then you saved about 35% on your gas . If you get 35mpg you'll buy 2800 gals of gas to go 100,000 miles. If you get 50mpg you'll buy 2000 gallons of gas to go 100,000 miles. 800 gals of gas x $4 = 3200 gas savings (I'm currently paying $3/gal). Which you can use as a down-payment on that next $5000 battery . Hybrid's true value is for virtue signaling ONLY . There's no practical savings there..at very best possible outcome its a break even.

The price difference between hybrid and non hybrid depends what car you are getting. On Corolla the difference is $1300, on Camry is $2000, on rav4 is $3000 any way it's not $5000 as you proclaimed!! The savings on gas is the hardest part to calculate because it depends on way too many factors: how far you are driving/year, city or highway, your driving style and most importantly the price of the fuel in your area over the life of your ownership.. etc... With the high gas prices now (and increasing) it is a CERTAINTY you gonna save money over the long run!! However the savings is more than just the fuel. The oil lasts longer and your brake also lasts longer. The battery can last a lot longer than what people assume. Many many taxi drivers in NY who use Prius or Camry hybrids can testify that the battery last more than 400K miles!!! I personally had the 2012 Prius that was still on the original battery ( roughly 220k miles) on the day I sold it last year albeit at the reduced mpg. I'm sure the new type of battery can last even longer.

@@henrytenden hey. So I forgot to mention here in Canada no dealer gives a shit, 3000 usd is close to 4100 cad and then 13% tax on 4100 that’s 4700. So nearly 5k. And I do get that their is a huge savings in the gas section and more power but as someone who wants to be in very little debt, it really doesn’t make sense for me. However there are extreme advantages of hybrid, I had a 2011 Toyota Camry hybrid for 3 years and I got about 7l/100 km in city and 5l/100 km on the highway, now Ofc it would have been wayyy higher if I had new batteries, and that is exactly what I am trying to say. Like in 10 years I don’t want to dumb another 3-4K just in the battery only and have it last for 10 years even tho it is quite a long time. Hope this made sense

8-10 years depends

I've heard about that also....... sad.

nothing to do with hybrids or batteries

Hyundai and Kia manufacture the worst automobiles on the planet. They had to take a write down of $2B recently due to a class action lawsuit about their engines. Instead of taking responsibility and replacing the bad engines under warranty, Hyundai rejected the warranty claims by blaming the owners for the engine failure. How would you like to have a 100K mile drive train warranty on your Hyundai and then have your engine fail @ 50K miles and be told that it wasn't covered under their warranty because the engine failed through abuse/neglect by the owner of the vehicle. This is why any vehicle manufactured by Hyundai and Kia depreciate like crazy. They are garbage. Anyone who buys one of these automobiles isn't very bright.

@rickeybenson823 of you are stupid enough not to change your oil at stipulated intervals, why should manufacturer cover you. Few good years back 3.5 v6 in my santa fe developed problems and it was replaced under warranty. I was only asked for the records of oil changes.

You wasted half of your life driving a cvt. 😊

does this come standard with a new vehicle purchase or do you have to purchase this extra/extended warranty?

@@jicalzad It is posted on their website that it is standard on all newly purchased hybrids.

Most ICE engines, at least all the GDI variants, will be toast at 130k. So this seems pretty reasonable considering it would be an "end of life" owner who won't have paid much for the car anyway.

Its kind of like trying to dispose of a camper but nobody will take and will cost you dearly at a garbage dump. Or like a fiberglass boat compared to aluminium which a scrapyard will pay you for the metal and nobody will take the fiberglass one.

That battery should still be under warranty. This doesn't make any sense.

Anecdotal…