The only thing i know for certain. Adjusting my brace height gives me different levels of comfort. Each bow has a sweet spot where they have just better arrow flight or a better feel as you shoot them.

Great video, thanks for doing it. That fiberglass bow looks like the first bow I bought back in 1965. It too was missing the first number, so I did not know if it was a 35 or 45 pound bow. I really liked the bow, I could shoot left or right handed. It started my love for traditional archery that has continued for 50 plus years.

The discussion here is great and tells me a lot more about two main camps for archers. There's one camp that have fun and are happy to hit a target at 20 or 30 yards, and they don't want to spend their time tuning. The other camp have fun and enjoy tuning their bows (and arrows) so they can achieve tight groups at close range, they also enjoy extending their shooting out to much further distances. As long as both camps enjoy what they are doing is all that matters. I would say that brace height tuning is both fact and fiction - fiction for the first camp and fact for the second camp.

If I am tuning, I found it imperative to attach a bow sight with pins and really focus on using them. Otherwise my subconscious takes over and quickly adjusts to something like a change in brace height. If you film arrows in slow motion and then make a one inch change in brace height, you will definitely see a change in flight characteristics. Your point of impact might not change all that much but will likely see you are shooting either a slightly weak or slightly strong arrow. Where this really shows up is in broadhead arrow penetration. A true broadhead arrow will definitely penetrate much better than either a weak or strong arrow. If you are hunting with a 40lb bow that could make the difference between a clean ethical kill and something less than that.

That only works if you are bareshaft. I can't believe you said "I don't tune my arrows"

Brace height adjustment is only about making the bow happy. And you will hear it.

hmm. As I understood your shot process, you're shooting the first arrow as an aim point indicator and then adjust your subsequent shots accordingly. totally fine. but after changing your brace height, did you use the same aim point as before ? Or did you just use the same shot process ? Wouldn't it be a more accurate test to use a fixed aiming point for all your shots at all brace heights ? Love you videos!

Changing brace height changes the dynamic spine of the arrow, presumably due to the change in distance between the nock and where the arrow contacts the bow (shelf or plunger) as it enters free flight. This won't be noticeable when shooting fletched arrows, esp. 4 large feathers. However, if you shoot bare shafts as part of your tuning process you will see this. I was playing around with increasing my brace height to make my bow more forgiving of a less than perfect release. The recommended BH on my aluminum ILF riser is 8.5"-9.5". I went from 8.5" to 9 3/8", which was going from one harmonic sweet spot up to the next (quietest, and least vibration). This changed my draw weight by less than half a pound (you can read about this on ArcheryTAlk where it is shown mathematically that there is a small increase in DW as BH is increased), but my bare shafts were now hitting about 14" right of my fletched group (whereas before they were hitting about 3-4" right of my fletched group). A higher BH causes the arrow to behave weaker, and vice versa. The reason you bare shaft tune is to get your bow and your dynamic arrow spine matched as best as possible, giving optimal arrow flight and the tightest groupings at the target when you're shooting your fletched arrows. The fletching is really just to help cover up a less-than-perfect tune and human error (poor releases). National level Olympic recurve shooters, because of a perfect arrow tune and excellent technique, can shoot grouped bare shafts at 70 meters. Most tuning guides recommend that you establish your brace height as a first step (find that harmonic sweet spot where the bow is quietest and has the least vibration), then set your nock point, and then begin bare shaft tuning (to check nock height and arrow spine). Some tuning guides don't even mention brace height because they assume that has been dealt with in "bow set-up" before you even get to tuning. I suggest anyone interested in learning more about tuning your bow and your arrows look to an authoritative source (Shooting the Stickbow, by former Olympian Anthony Camera is a good text that looks specifically at longbows and trad recurves; online tuning guides for recurve archery can be followed by trad and longbow shooters, just skip the parts that aren't relevant to your gear).

Good, honest video of a traditional archer and the many things you have to adjust on the fly in seconds. I know where your coming from on arrows. All your videos are good information from beginner to advanced.

Greg I got the same results when I attempted the brace height challenge. All I could notice was the bow grouping better or worse, no change in impact zones. Thank you for another great video,.

I agree with much of what this bloke comes up with. I have been testing with my Australian made Woomera 45# laminated long bow for a couple of years. Still can't really decide if I have my set up right. Bow is not centre shot, I'm Using 600 spine carbons with 3 five inch feathers usually 125 or 150 points. I like to stick close to the 10grains of arrow weight per pound of bow weight. Anyway, all these tests are interesting and thought provoking. Some I agree with, some not but its all good and well presented. You tube has so much poor quality wrong stuff. Archery 101 is a bright spot in the mud. Brian Mogriguy Australia

My analysis is IF THE BOW STRING IS OFF CENTER TO THE BOW, LENGTHENING OR SHORTENING THE STRING WILL CAUSE MORE OR LESS HORIZONTAL MOVEMENT OF THE ARROW ON THE TARGET.

Greg, good to see you are always thinking. If you (left hand shooter) ever have a day when your always shooting to the right arrow after arrow. Arrows are flying good and straight just to the right every time try raising your brace height and see what happens. And if your shooting to the left then lower it. That's what I was told over 35 years ago by someone who knew his stick bows. Thank you.

wouldn't you want to use the same aim point regardless of where you're hitting? If you adjust your aim point then wouldn't you hit your mark?

Shot for years never heard of brace height just shot and had fun

Greg. When you do any test hold or aim the same for all arrows. The grouping will tell you what is happening. Doesn’t have to be at a target. Could just be a spot. Your groups will move how they want.

one of the best archery channels. TU..it's the nock point that is changing the accuracy slightly not the string height.

Greg could you please make another vid (playing with brace height) with bare shafts 🙏🏻

You are correct in saying that at this distance it's highly unlikely you'll find a difference in the lateral position of your arrows by changing the brace height. However, that is not what people normally refer to as "brace height tuning", at least in the recurve community. According to the Easton tuning guide, "locating the best brace height for your bow can significantly improve arrow grouping and shooting consistency." This is precisely what you get when you tune for the quietest shot, i.e. with "brace height tuning". It also says that brace height can make a marginal difference on the dynamic spine of the arrow, equivalent to changing the point weight by about 20 grains. But that can only be noticed at longer distances, and tuning for a quiet shot had a greater effect anyway.

Good video, and as usual a good conversation starter. My brace height indicator is the old fist/thumb with about an inch or so eyeballed in, comes in at about 7 3/4 +/- depending on the bow, but then I will get a feel for any change when I shoot again. I've been shooting for years now, not a professional shooter I shoot for the enjoyment, maybe that makes the difference.

That was great ,but i would also do an investigation in the Position of your silencers!

Do the same test without feathers, changing brace height changes the poundage on the bow. In your case as LH weak arrows will stick with the nock on the right and strong arrows will stick with the nock on the left. I use this to correctly match the spine of the arrows to the bow. You will not see any diference using feathers as they correct the flight of the arrow. Love your videos, keep up with the good work.

FYI....If you have a horsebow, do not adjust the brace height by twisting the string. You have to put knots in it to make the brace height larger. That's right, that also means that you can't make the brace height smaller unless you get a longer string. Horse bows are more prone to twisting in the limbs if you twist the string. Cheers :-)

low brace height affect shot if you release isn't good, whereas high brace height is more fogiving with bad release. After that brace height make just the bow quieter or louder. Ty greg for all your work

I understand that brace height affect s the arrow speed.

I have found that brace height has no affect on shooting but lots of affect on shooter Way to short and my arm gets kissed. Also hand shock increases. (bow dependant on how much) Way to high, bow breaks (no not always but once is enough lol)

it would be interesting to do this same test with bare shafts as that will show the differences better. Fletching covers a lot... especially if we are not getting nothing but X's. :)

Brace height does affect where the arrow strikes, but its not a direct relationship. A lower brace height means the arrow is connected to the string longer before its released, meaning that its will be going faster and therefore it will behave as if it were softer (falling right for a right handed shooter). A higher brace height is the opposite. The arrows detaches from the string sooner, ends up traveling slower and so behaves as if it were more stiff (falling to the left for a right handed shooter). So, basically, its about arrow velocity and not brace height...

Right on brother

You talked about making hold shits in the video. I understand the urge to get center groupings, but if you're obstensibly looking for a mechanical point of impact shift, then you need a consistent point of aim, otherwise the test is invalidated.

I really love your videos, no matter the topic, you're just fun to watch and always happy What caught my eye at first in this video tho wasn't anything topic related but the fact that you didn't cut the loops of your yarn silencers open Did you forgot about that or was that on purpose? Just made me smile to see it Greetings from 'Germany

Great video, Greg!

Can only thank Greg for the time he puts in to prove or disprove things.I agree with him here about the brace height.

I always doubted that it would make enough difference to even be descernable. It certainly does make a difference in how the bow behaves in terms of shock and noise, as you demonstrated as well. One more thing you could try is to see if raising or lowering brace height increases or decreases draw weight. I've read that as well and think it's just as much fiction as the change of impact you just did. I would think, if it made a difference that was detectable, you would see it with a chronograph test. I might even give that a try sometime, but I'll have to get my chrono back from #1 son first.

Greg, Great presentation and analysis on this subject! What was the brand and bow poundage of the laminated bow?

Thank you so much sir👌I appreciate it a lot👍 You do all the work and we are just sucking inn the wisdom and learn🙏 In Greg We Trust 😇

i set my brace to quiet my bow, less slap, i like a tight brace, 7.5, other bows need a larger brace

7 1/4” was definitely faster than 8 1/4”. Could hear the difference

Interesting test. I didn't see a right and left movement. It would seem though if you increased the brace height. Then you would at least change the power of the limbs. That is to say, your bow would shoot stronger, which would elevate your arrow trajectory. Plus a change in nock position would also elevate your arrow. I don't know if the increase limb power and lowering of the nock position may cause it to shoot normal?

I think the brace height has to do more with either reducing noise (higher brace) or increasing power stroke (low brace). He's playing with nocking points here.

Very interesting and quite surprising..

I use this when I bareshaft tune to fix nock left or nock right.

I thought brace height only affected the bow noise and hand shock if there is any

Interesting. Would a longer distance effect this and make a bigger difference ? After all I can score 5 x 9s and 1 x 7s at 20 yards but would struggle to do that at 50 yards longer distance greater variation after all my bow doesn't know if I'm shooting at something 20 yards or 50 yards the difference is in the trajectory of the arrow ?

Great info.

I have the same problem one always takes off

I have difficulty in obtaining correct length bow strings that are sold as for AMO length of bow instead of actual length and thus obtaining the preferred /recommended brace height.

Great Video.....Thanks!!! Perfect results for the Typical Good Archer shooting traditional gear. Maybe an Olympian shooting freestyle will see a difference in the placement of his 1/2 inch groups.........and that's not me lol.

Does a shorter brace height allow the arrow to be pushed farther by the string, there fore transferring more of that energy to the arrow? Does it have minimal effect? Very nice video, thank you.

Is your square zeroed at the edge or at the metal string holder tabs... It matters otherwise your numbers are off if it's on the metal tabs and not the flat edge... Mines zeroed at the metal tabs you have to attach that to the string and then measure the braceheight from there to the button or grip valley You can't argue that the measurement was done the same for all bows because the actual braceheight measurement is wrong in the first place if it's not zeroed at the edge of the bow square

hi i really like your bow that u used on the second place that was very slim could you please let me know the name of the that bow so that i could buy it !!!

You didn’t prove anything except that the feathers did their job very well. Bare shaft them and see what happens. Also, if you learn to actually shoot the bow instead of letting the bow shoot you, you won’t be worried about your gap.

Greg, please! the first group was slightly left of X and the second was on center with one arrow on X. Group moved left. Right?

Can I ask why 4 features is there any benefit thanks for another great video.

I'm not sure you will ever see a difference at 20/25 yards. You will need to go out to 40/50/60yards to see it. First you will need to be able to shoot 5's consistently with tuned arrows or your not getting any true pictures.

depends on the bow,,, game over

Mythbusters would be proud sir.

Whenever my brace height is off my arrows land left or right depending on if its too tight or too loose.........HOWEVER, its only true for bows that i shoot with a heavy cant...and you just proved why that happens to me..because the nock moves up or down..so ..with my heavy cant angel that translates to left or right movement... if you shoot with no cant then it will either porpoise or print low but will not produce left and right variations only up or down.

WITH REGARD TO TARGET RECURVE BOWS: The idea of using brace height to "tune" the placement of arrows on target is deeply flawed - you don't use it for that. A bow with a badly set brace height CAN shoot inaccurately and part of the OVERALL tuning process is always to ensure that the brace height is set appropriately within the manufacturers recommendations. As with all things in archery it's a far more involved and interrelated issue.

it did change the bow sound DID it help vibration ???

Doesn't make sense, Why would you adjust your aim? If anything you can tell the brace height does change your left to right by the first arrows you shot. The first reference arrow you shot landed to the right. After you decreased the brace height your reference arrow landed to the left signifying the arrow flexed less due to the bow being weaker. You want to make sure the arrows are leaving your bow correctly so bare shaft tuning will help you set up your brace height and make sure your arrows are spined correctly for your bow. If not you might get some helicoptering that will increase your spread on the target.

I really enjoy your videoes but this testing is not consistent at all because fletchings cover up inconsistencies in the arrow flight if you truly wanted to see how much it affects your arrow flight you would do it with bare shafts not fletched shafts, which I have brace height tuned and changing brace height does 100 percent affect left and right. increasing brace height compensates for a stiff arrow and decreasing compensates for a weak arrow

example ,, bear 67,,,, 28in draw 43# at my draw 30 53#,,, kodiak hunter at 28 inch 44# at my draw 30,,,49# bows very.. length amo,,,typ,,,make,,,age,,,ect

Your shots are center on the second round though. You had a good group both times besides the 1st and fourth, but your group did move to the right so....

so u both could be right ! hehee😁😁

Unless a Tradtional or bare bow archer consistantly hits 10 or 9 ring and then conducts an experiment, there are two many variables called human error. Dinner plate accuracy should be the realistic goal not 10/ 9 / 8. You will be very disappointed. Lol. Golf and archery are alike.... And to prove anything as a good baseline it would be 10-15 yards. Not 20 to 30 for admiration

Coming from rifle shooting the biggest variable is the human shooting the weapon eg prone shooting with the rifle on a bag or tripod I can put pellet on pellet the only skill is setting up the gun keep everything the same just stand up and shoot .not a snow balls chance in hell am I anywhere near as accurate

Why didn’t you continuously have to adjust the nock point? I never noticed your arrow strikes nocking up or down and your nock position changes drastically, , 1/2” I think u said at one point. There is fiction here than I believe you are showing. Slight adjustments in nock heights, in my experience, have resulted in nock down and up for arrows shot, never saw this in yours. Did your nock point moving not change the arrow flight at all. Something doesn’t seem right here……

Sorry but your test is not correct when you lowered the brace height you needed to put the nocking point you needed to change the nocking point to make it all the same and you did not

I think you have 1 bad arrow in your group.

"I don't tune arrows"?! This is probably why you aren't a great target archer.

debunking myths

I say your test is flawed because your brain is makig up for it I think if you use a machine you woould see a difference Interesting though. The way I understand it by decreasing brace height you are changing not.only the angle of the arrow off the riser making it less center shot you are increasing the power stroke too more string time more energy into the arrow. Hmmm I think a chrono may detect some but. As I said I believe your brain is instinctivly compensating

Right on brother

Thank you so much sir👌I appreciate it a lot👍 You do all the work and we are just sucking inn the wisdom and learn🙏 In Greg We Trust 😇