Any advice for trade school subjects for women? 29 here don't know what to do for at least 20 good working years

As a college professor I encourage my own kids to purse a trade first...then higher education later, if needed.

My son left university after one year and became a plumber/gas-fitter apprentice. Caused major fighting between me (who supported this move) and my wife (who wanted him to get a college degree in ‘whatever’). He’s now 21, makes about $60k, debt-free and building a nest egg to buy property. Most importantly, he’s the happiest I’ve seen him since he was 10 years old.

Wish I didn’t wait until my mid 20s to figure it out. Finally getting into project managing and starting my own roll off dumpster business. It’s allowing us to keep my wife at home raising our baby that is on the way. You’ve motivated me a lot throughout the years, Cody. Thank you

As a college prof, we are shifting more and more to skills based curriculum. Even doing programs with apprenticeships in the trades. Universities need to shift their models as many are closing down

I’m 19 and started doing residential HVAC right out of high school. Working on getting my EPA and NATE certifications currently. Couldn’t be happier with my choice of work. I love learning aspects of almost every trade in one. Not enough people my age are getting into the trades. In their eyes they see it as failure. Instead they are spending close to 100k on business degrees.

I agree that trades are better for job security. I feel that my Chemistry university degree expanded my mind and worldly knowledge in ways that has helped me tremendously, yet I never actually worked as a Chemist. Good luck young people.

I went to a small conservative university, got a liberal arts degree in computer science and landed a job paying almost 6 figures a few months after graduation. I don’t think people need to look at what the “standard” option is. They need to recognize that college, trade and direct to workforce are all options with pros and cons. And for your situation you need to figure out what works and what career you are seeking. The problem is that as soon as you enter kindergarten, teachers tell you “Get good grades so you can get into a good college.” As if it’s the only really “successful” path in life.

Yep, I decided in my young 20's that I wanted to go learn a trade, so I became a machinist, now 30+ years later, I have retired as a machinist and still make a good wage. College is not for everyone and we need skilled workers.

I am 17, this summer on a mission trip we were evangelizing in NYC. Before that, I always believed that my job is to become a software engineer. I have been studying that since 7th grade, made multiple programs, and performed better than anyone in my class. On that mission trip, God showed me what He wants me to do. Fasting, and praying constantly, His voice was made clear, He spoke through my Father. I see right now that God wants me to be in the trades specifically as a General Contractor. It is much more flexible as I can work solely. When Adam received his punishment God said that at the sweat of his brow, he would support his family. I also see that going into trades, will keep me from mixing with this world, and will help me honor God. Even in the work I will do, there lay many opportunities to help others, and serving Him.

My nursing degree cost me about $8k, which is nothing. I made it back in my first two months. You have to truly assess your cost and the potential benefit. I’m a big advocate of trade schools. We all have certain abilities and talents. Find your own way and the least expensive way to get there.

Great advice! The number of people with college degrees working at low paying go nowhere jobs is staggering. Their also in debit up to their eyeballs for many thousands and thousands of dollars. Learning a skill that is in demand and being diligent in your work habits will keep you employed and in demand. Once you learn the ropes the next step is self employment. You can make a profit not just a good wage and have full control of your time.

I have done both. I graduated colege with a 3.7 GPA and earned a bachelor's degree. I worked for 3 or 4 years at distribution centers, factories and personal training. But wanted to make more money. I then went on and joined the local bricklayers union as a refractory bricklayer. I served my apprenticeship and became a journeyman. I worked at various steel mills such as SDI, AMACOR, CAPT and St Marys Foundry. I relined many furnaces, installed firebrick, made many precast shapes and worked on tundish's electric arc furnaces and cupolas. All the while being subject to very hot and hazardous environments. I made pretty good money being in the union. Double time over 8 hours, double time on weekends and holidays. Over time it wore me out and I wanted more time spent with my family and girlfriend. No matter how much money you make working odd shifts, long hours and traveling does take a toll. I have since been blssed with a great regional sales manager position for excavator attachements. It is a very fulfilling job, the pay and benefits are great, vacation time and knowing my schedule is the same day in and day out is great. If you have worked construction for any amount of time you know that the schedule can change on the fly without a moments notice. With all that said find out what is best for you. It might take 3 yhears or it might take you 20. But when you find the right fit you will know immediately. I learned invaluable skills along the way to becoming a sales manager I would not change any of it. If you want to go to college then learn something important like business, accounting, finance, computer science, become a doctor a nurse or physical therapist. There are too many college degrees that promise great prosperity and that is simply not the case. Take the time in your early teens to learn about various trades what they pay ect learn to read a tape measure and how to build and read prints. But also be aware that maybe working in an office, a hospital or a firm is a good idea too.

I did trade school for hvac. All I can say is don’t go for electrician… they are only needed for new construction… hvacr is needed year round. My union package is over $103 an hour now and health insurance is better than you could imagine

I was 18 about to graduate high school fully mentally committed the trades Last minute I signed up for community college Fontana community college a bunch of crazy stuff happened in my personal life now I’m 22 just now getting myself set up for trade school it’s still seems worth it damn I wish I went with my gut back then

Another thing to consider is that if you do decide to go to college you should pick a degree that is actually useful and applicable. If the field of your degree is purely academic, it is important that you are aware of what you are getting into.

I’m 20 and 2 years into electrical school and 3 years into electrical work as an apprentice. Working well for me so far! Thanks for the video

I joined a construction electrician apprenticeship when I was 20 years old, it was a 5 year long program, I graduated with no debt making about 30 dollars an hour, about 2 years after graduating I was offered a job as something called a Instrumentation Technician, I worked on and repaired devices that measured pressure/temperature/flow in industrial environments, that job paid about 36 an hour, about 2 years after that I was offered a job as an Analyzer Instrumentation Technician which was a job where I worked on devices that would measure the chemical composition of process fluids/gases in the industrial environment, and that job paid well over 40 dollars an hour. All that was done without ever going to college and without ever paying for any other form of schooling, I also highly recommend the skilled trades to anyone over college. Basic skilled trades jobs pay as good or better then what you would get fresh out of college with almost any degree, and the room for jumping up into more and more lucrative fields is almost endless. Also I can confirm that the bar of expectations really is SO low that if you can just pass a drug test and show up to work each day you will be head and shoulders above all your coworkers, and then on top of that if you can maintain a polite and positive attitude... there is no stopping you then lol

I think going into this future. What younger people should look at is jobs that are essential. What I mean by that is a job that wont be restricted by lock downs from their government. I am a machinist and during the so called pandemic my trade was called essential and I got to work no matter what. I knew people that couldn't or even lost their job. Either because there company had problems or they would not do what was forced on them. This is going to be important going into this new reality were in. These people in charge saw how they could control people in these situations so you can be sure it will happen again.

I went to a junior college for welding 1200 miles from home came back and enrolled in trades school at local tribal college and went into electrical at the university off the reservation. Came back to the place I started my education and now I run the program at the tribal college. Best decision of my life. Now our program went from 47 to to 61 credits. Hopefully we can get it approved for a associates degree.

I went to college and after 14 years in my field I was making $25 an hour. I then went a 16 month RN program and 3 years later make $87 an hour. Working 4 days a week I will make over 220k a year. Trade school is the way to go

Trade school is what I did. Got multiple federal licenses and state licenses. Obviously if you want to be a doctor or something, go to college, we need them too. But the trades are worth so much money...

I live on a farm in an English community in Quebec Canada. The farm isn't going to be around much longer, my grandparents want to sell it. I don't have any job credentials other than a farm hand, I'll provide have to go into the trades one day.

Got my certification in medical billing in 4 months online. Got a job 2 days after I got through. There are jobs out there that don't need college degrees, you just need to get creative and you can find a job that will fulfil you and provide for your family

Quality, reliable electricians and plumbers are always in high demand.

Hey Cody, I very much agree with you. My brother and I have just purchased and plan on continuing a masonry trade school. A full 9 month program. Please keep us in your prayers! God bless, and happy Sabbath!

It’s gonna be a long time before AI takes over skilled trades. I’m missing your regular videos Cody. God bless

Agree,,,All trades..Framers, Sidewallers, Roofers, electricians, plumbers, welders. Always going to be new homes built, older homes remodeled, and the wealthy always want to be upgraded every couple years . Have my own Framing / remodeling co, booked up to a year out , every year for the last 29 years. Never missed a day of work. You can make 100k-500k easily

Did a 5 year apprenticeship with the pipefitters. Best thing that ever happened to me. Made me grow up and now I have a career and a pension to support my family! I never would've made it through college

I must say, as a newish subscriber, I've througouhly enjoyed your videos Mr. Wranglerstar. I've been on a binge and have genuinely enjoyed each one. You've inspired me to begin woodworking and I'm slowly getting the tools I need before I start any projects. As for your other videos that aren't tool related, I could honestly listen to you and your life experiences for hours on end. You have such a calm demeanor and it is quite relaxing to listen to you. Keep up the amazing work, and I will continue to look forward to your wonderful videos. Thank you for everything!

Spot on brother...Electrical/Electronics trade school grad (1985). Worked my but off paying my dues (weekends and stripping copper and cleaning up). Got my EE and PMP becuase of the Army. Ran my own business for 16 years and raised a family and cash flowed college for three kids (debt free). Trades are something to extol not scoff at (everyone needs a plumber when the water is rising). Dirty hands and an honest days work are a blessing that few can appreciate. Thanks for what you do. Drive on...

Well said and great topic ! I went to auto/diesel and welding school back in the late 1980's and really enjoyed the experience as it helped guide me in the direction we went . And I'm still welding & working on diesel's today LOL ! 😁Ca Ching $ Back in high screwel the Trades were looked down upon and we were supposed to go borrow a buch a money for college degree .... I'm getting a laugh now that acidemia appreciates the trades as it's hard to find trained technicians today . Anything in building , mechanical , electrical , welding and don't forget the most important ..... AGRICULTURE as people like to eat ! 😀👍

I completed an 8000 hr apprenticeship in my early 20s( pipefitter). Got my college degree at 40. Worked as a teacher and community College technical instructor when I retired from my first career. I learned a great deal more real world knowledge in the trades than I ever could in college . I highly recommend it. If I did it again, I would go into electrical work. If they ever do eliminate fossil fuel there will be so much demand for electricians you will make a very good living.

Left my career is administration, became a paramedic, and i have zero regrets. I am nationally registered I can pick up and move anywhere. The wife works relief as a nurse. Our jobs are short staffed nation wide. So we can work wherever we please. It is a good time to be in a specialized career.

Electrical and plumbing/gas-fitting are the best two trade fields in terms of flexibility. Both will allow you to live just about anywhere and have a traditional lifestyle. Some trades will limit where you can settle to make really good money.

I like how he says trades then says electrical engineering lol

I did a late life career change at 39 years old. I struggled to land first job in HVAC, doing HVAC for 5 years now , best choice ever. Disclaimer if you’re like me an older guy changing careers late in life prepare to be pre-judged and unfairly assessed due to your age.

I kind of stumbled into Engineering as it’s a family tradition. I encourage anyone with the right disposition to do it. Good pay, job security, and mentally stimulating.

Hello Wranglerstar, thanks for this content. I'm 29 and have 2 children. I am currently a personal trainer and just recently enrolled in a welding program. I wanted to expand more skill set and learn a trade that will offer me flexibility if my family and I ever pull the trigger on leaving California. 29 is quite old to barely begin the welding trade, but I'm getting better despite not having any experience. Have you seen examples like mine in your work experience throughout the years? Thank you.

Going into Trade school before getting an apprenticeship is useless and wont get you any get any further ahead than starting with an a apprenticeship. Ive met countless Apprentices who went to trade school out of highschool, paid for it out of their own pockets, but had to start at the bottom anyways once they got their apprenticeship. You wouldn’t want to have to start your schooling all over again either, its expensive and redundant.

I took transgender studies and am the CEO of of a Fortune 500 company. I suggest you take a useful college program like me for your success.

Yes this is some really good advice I'm a heavy equipment operator apprentice for local 12 California takes about 3 years to do the apprenticeship and it'll be out about 50/60 an hour

The question is are u doing it for money or to learn? I was never good at school but I still went to college here in the UK and studied basic vehicle mechanics for 2 years then moved on to body repair for a year! This was about 15 years ago and I still have not got a job in that industry but what I did learn has come in so handy over the years! I now work in construction without any formal education and there isn't a job I can't put my hand to on a building site Its crazy to me how many tradespeople there are that only know one little subject and haven't got a clue about anything else construction related! My advice would be to find a small company that is willing to teach you even if you are not earning the big bucks that will come with knowledge

Additionally, dual enroll while in high school, get basic requirements done... continue and finish comm college after high school. Then, get into a place that will pay for 'real college' later, if you even want to. trades are great, meaningful careers.

I’m fortunate enough to be using my GI bill for college, AND came out of the military with (somewhat) of a trade; a 100 ton captains license. The money I can make on a captains license alone can support me comfortably for the rest of my life, however looking into careers that utilize both a degree and my trade is the dream. I think either option is great, but having both can (hopefully) get me far.

Having been to a community college thanks to a love of chemistry, I can guarantee you'll learn a lot more than you paid for. The thoughtful professors always find a way to incorporate great insights into their lessons. Think you're stepping into an English class? Wrong! It's actually a class that teaches you about the infinite hues of the gender spectrum. Then, once you're done in there, you'll chase that poison down with some algebra. Did I say algebra? I meant to say the memoirs of a professor. Here you'll learn all about the life and political ideologies of someone who knows algebra. If this all sounds ridiculous to you, it's because the college process hasn't worked on you yet. Eventually, you'll feel your old self wither down as the new you takes its first steps towards a paper that reads, "I'm educated."

If you are in the PNW: Check out the Spokane Community College Hydraulic and Pneumatic Automation Program (name may be changing soon) 100% employment at graduation since 1972. A person right out of high school will be solidly in the middle class at 20 years old. The electrical program at the same school?... 0-5% employment at graduation.

23 years old and a journeyman inside wireman here in wisconsin. Made 120k last year including benefits all while working local and being home every weekend. Our area is still looking for people to fill jobs for the last 6+ months Oh well, less people in the trade just makes me more valuable

I went to a technical college at the age of 50 (2010-2011) because the business (construction) I was in crashed with the economy. Got an HVAC 2 year diploma in 5 quarters, and it turned into a job. My advice to a young person would be, get an HVAC diploma and go to work at a freezer plant where they use ammonia refrigeration. The school I went to, Lanier Tech. has an ammonia refrigeration course but the only way to get in it is to be sent by a company, you can't just walk in "off the street". After that you could name your price.

As a product of both I can tell you first hand that I took more from my trades education than I ever did from my advanced degree. I chose manufacturing, learn how things are made and you'll come to understand the world is just one big industrial lego set

I agree with you on this.

Good recommendation 💯 don't forget the mechanics of the world like your grandfather!! We can work anywhere aswell

Speaking of electricity... Need an update on your experience with grounding your sleep.

The easiest money still comes from learning to code. All you need is a computer and a willingness to learn. The course material is all online and free. If you're good at it you can make upwards of $200k entry level with a remote job.

Construction Trades pay better than office jobs, cashier. Retail work etc

I needed this! I'm about to go to welding school next month.

I work at a large mining company who has 7 mines all within one city ,, reading the seniority list we have 200 plus who have their 30 years in and can retire plus many more who has 20 years and are over 60 years old. Trades pay $42 hour plus bounus ..

Thank you for this video!! With three teenage boys I’ve been wondering trade school or college!

One of my nephews just turned 19, and I've been begging him to get a trade. I've told him the exact thing you mentioned at the end. I hope he will. Great advice.

I work for a state DOT construction department (insert hate comments below) EVERY type of contractor are looking for workers. Paving, carpentry, welding, concrete, dirt work, mining, electrical, truck drivers, the list goes on. There are options and these jobs pay living wages, granted you actually have to work and put in effort. We need more people.

Very true, I studied welding combination just in case our country went haywire and then continued to study architecture. Then COVID happened, had to ditch school to make money. Thank God I knew how to weld, prayed it up and searched fora job and now I make 75-110k a year in my welding trade. Definitely do recommend

I think I did something kinda neat. I'm 20 rn getting a degree in aerospace engineering but I managed to find a job as a millwright apprentice. If I want a lot of money and do what I love I could get a job as an engineer, and I have practical design experience and a fallback as a millwright

This isn't even a debate anymore. I'm a programmer and I urge everyone to get into trades. Basically every job that takes place in front of a computer, or behind the wheel of a car/truck, will be gone in 10-20 years.

100% agree on the trades.

Cody, currently a 20 Yr old sophomore student at a university, I’ve been to 2 colleges (transfer student) and I take summers off to work in Alaska to fund college, been thinking about this more and more. Especially with college being more and more of a hive mind of sorts. Kinda tired of the Anti-white rhetoric and I’ve always had an affinity for working with my hands, what’s your advice for a switch to tradeschool from a college? Thanks! Love the videos!

Thank you for the advice, 18 year old senior stuck on what to do and this helped a lot !

I did a 5 year electrical apprenticeship in San Diego and it was the best career move I have ever made.

As someone who got pushed through the “correct” path (which, in my day, was university), I wish I could turn back time and get into a trade. College doesn’t even guarantee higher income (if you are sensible and reasonably capable) and I can’t think of one person I know who is actually working the field they studied in college. Everyone found it to be a let down and had to get retrained or just went into a field that didn’t need college in the first place. It makes sense for some people, but not most.

Be a glazier they said. Equipment is expensive and heavy, glass is heavy, aluminium gets heavy in 24' extrusions, you need tools from about every trades' belts. Lots of work in lifts and swing scaffold. But there aren't many of us, and architects are only using more and more glass. We are aluminum carpenters, caulk masters, and cowboys. I plied my trade all over the country while I repaid some debts and grew up a bit. When i got sick and off the road, my skillset was ready for high rise work. Now, I'm among the group of people who get paid to work on public buildings, compensated, 3 hands away, by the tax payers.

As someone going into college looking to get standard degrees, I still find trade school to be one of the most important and helpful post-high school options To each their own, but I wouldn’t be able to drive to school without the trade schooled mechanic that made it possible👍🏽

Journeyman electrician here. Was young and dumb, didn’t get into the apprenticeship until I was 32. Wish I had done it at 18. Now make $46 an hour, have a retirement, and pay nothing out of pocket for health care. Get a skilled trade!

I went the traditional 4 year bachelors route. I have regretted it for the last 10 years since I graduated. Total waste of money and time. I went back to school for welding and love it. When everyone has a degree, no one does.

Amen I bought my house at 19 I will be finished apprenticeship next march!! I’m 21 now.

Great advice, if you look around, there are not enough young men or women coming into the trades. I know a young man of 30 who is a skilled welder/fabricator among other skills and it worries him that the young people of today are not following him in these trades, not even many of his age

I am an electrician and I can tell you we are hurting for apprentices at our shop. We are down to the point that if you have a good work ethic and a pulse, we will put you to work. It’s not hard to show up and put in the work.

I went to community college for 2 years to be an Electrician. Then joined the IBEW apprenticeship program, graduated. The only thing I paid for in the IBEW apprenticeship program was books and tools. Best decision I ever made.

100% agree. Electrical trade is essential. I plan on sending my son to a high school trade school as an option when he's a teenager. I atleast want him to have a fall back plan incase he doesn't know what he wants to do in college.

What area is best ? Welding, electrical, carpentry? Without having to travel that much unless you like to travel? My uncle was a welder & he was all over the USA for jobs for months or s few years.

I’m a tradesman. I wanted to go to college and couldn’t at the time. Prioritize for the long term. Do what you *want* first and foremost. You’re investing time and money with either chosen pathway, so perform some self reflection and just do what you want to do. And be smart about it, of course.

Jumped into the union when I was 18 started a apprenticeship to be a lineman at 21 (needed a class a CDL to apply) topped out as a journey at 24 haven’t looked back sense. Been making over 200k every year since I topped out.

I went through a welding apprenticeship, became a journeyman, and now make a decent 6 figure salary.

Might be worth doing the research and looking into the numbers tradesmen earn. They'll make about the national average yearly income doing physically hard work while a college educated computer programmer earns double.

Yes double thumbs up!! Welding, plumbing,etc

The cool thing about trades is you level up in a sense over time. So your pay will be guaranteed to increase as you get better and prove yourself. Unlike entry level or most management jobs where you get your 2-4% a year as you slowly drown. Plus OT is abundant which just adds to your pay. Also don't forget other trades like Lineman for utility companies or traveling welders they can get 100K+ with OT

Get the accreditation that doesn't bore you and you are able to take on the academics Study for. If you go to a good hands on oriented university you can pick up electrical, mechanical chemical computer and civil trades level experience on the way. But you have to be able to hold on to the hope for $150k wage until about age 25. Depending on the degree you can know enough to be dangerous in most all of the trades. There are some learning centres that offer welding trades through to heavy civil mech engineering design where you can move back and forth to find your niche, sometimes it takes a bit longer to get to the finish line though. Also an eng or cpsc degree sn lead to a commissioned officer level in many NATO armed forces. For sweet loaf think CPSc Chemical / Bio engineering or Geology, unless she grows up to have sharp elbows a thick skin and is very determined. Apply from grade 11 November for the very popular tech/engineering schools or plan on waiting a extra year after gr 12 -- there is often a 2 year wait list on entry!

Just found your channel and I am getting loads out of it. I listened to your "God and other good advice" stream and darn it if your didnt say some stuff that I needed to hear. Thank you for being sensitive to the Holy Spirit. God is good. Blessings from Kelowna, B.C. Keep it up good sir.

The answer to this like so many other things is it depends. I’m an engineer and that’s been a good choice as I look back. I’ve told my kids that if you’re going to college don’t waste your time and money if you’re not going to major in engineering, business or medical something or other. They’re far better off learning a trade. Whatever path they choose just getting through high school isn’t enough anymore.

Electricians, while at the higher end of likely pay, only make about 50k a year. A career of it will get you 100k yearly, maybe. Still believe in starting in the trades and teach my kids the same. Deceit is not the way to encourage growth in children though.

cody, i went to a trade high school and went through the electrical progrema there, unfortunately I have a degenerative eye disease, the thought of being stuck in a trade when I could go blind at any time made me go to college. I enjoyed my time learning about the trades and would never change it but I have to set myself up to not be reliant on my eyes.

Nailed it. My dad said this when I was young, and now I tell my sons the same thing.

I’m 21 and currently pursuing a bachelor’s in Industrial Technology with a concentration in maintenance and manufacturing management. My coursework includes anything from industrial management and accounting, to welding, CNC machining, PLC, and industrial electronics. It prepares you for a supervisor/management role in the trades or in industry. If you are a young person not sure if you want to go to trade school or college this is an excellent compromise. Companies are back flipping to hire us, on a weekly basis there is a big name on campus looking for applicants for internships, co-ops, apprenticeships, and postgraduate positions. Boeing, Honda, Caterpillar, Nissan, Toyota, Milwaukee tools, Chevron, Eaton Aerospace, GE, Hol-Mac, Yokohama… you name it they are hiring graduates of industrial tech.

Hope you see this 👋 I really enjoy your videos. I think you’ve given some good fatherly/manly advice and info. I appreciate that. And I find your videos very comforting in the chaos of modern city life. Thanks.

I agree. Spent my following years after highschool as an electrician, and now am in the industrial field supporting my family. Especially for young men like myself, by the time I’m 40 I will be ahead of the ball game due to less and less people my age entering these fields. I’m blessed to have the opportunity I have and haven’t looked back. God bless sir.

I worked in the construction industry and could find a job anywhere! But I spent over 20 yrs in the forestry industry, from municipal service to private residential and commercial, to line clearance. I can operate any piece of equipment made by man, and if I don’t know how I can learn in less than a day to be efficient. I had my Class A CDL and could drive anything on the roads. So I always had multiple opportunities anywhere I went. I am efficient in all facets of construction except hvac and can learn that trade as well. I can repair anything mechanical except automatic transmissions but can learn that if needed. I can weld can do some fabrication work. My skill set is vast, priceless, and will always be in demand anywhere I choose to go.

As someone who got a degree in engineering I agree with you. My biggest gripe with college is that very little of what you are taught in school is applied to work for 90% of the people. Honestly I could do my job without a college degree with just a year of work experience. Luckily I chose to work out in the field so it is not as boring. But becoming an electrician or something similar is a pretty sweet deal. I could definitely see myself doing it. Not to mention the money you could make working under the table. Endless opportunity there.

I agree with being an electrician...it is the future. Im an industrial mechanic and make 80k / year and im not even 30. I can literally find a new job with the same pay in less than a week. Everyone is desperate for skilled workers

And tell them vote democrat so they will be taken care of on everyone’s dime!

Yep...agree 100% Also add that it it a good path to being able to do side jobs or be self employed if you want.

Showing up for work, being reliable, and getting a good paycheck is what I want to see more of in this country. The overwork mentality isn't right. I get that there might or might not be reasons, but the way many young people treat jobs that are actually paying them closer to well is not cool. There's a difference between being a bad employee that's more of a harm than help, being a reliable employee for who work-life balance and not overworking is important, and a masochistic over-worker. Like often in life, the middle way is the way to go, but I don't really see these as a spectrum.

Agreed, thanks for using your voice (and reach) for good!