More Don please! Don and Vince should each be at least annual guests if possible.

Don you need your own podcast.. Nice to see you again.

The "Shield Towel" on Jons Barbarian is a historic based thing made of cloth or leather that hung down from the shield and provided more protection to the lower body and legs.

Trapped under plastic: a podcast that proves even a cyber stalker can forge lasting friendships.

Love the guest! Always a thumbs up for Don Haney!

Wow. That Don Haney model is one of the most beautiful paint jobs I've ever seen. Jon hit the nail on the head about the subtleties.

Thank you for doing the main topic today. It's really helpful to get the word out that there is a lot more to our hobby than just the way Games Workshop does it.

So glad he's back!!!

I cannot stress how much i love mini-agnostic games! Half the fun is using miniatures that you love for a warband! My brother and i have been particularly interested in a game called In-country (Or INX) by Enemy Spotted Studios and have had fun with the simple rule set and encouragement to make your own units within the parameters of the rule set! We've taken to creating Halo-themed warbands for the Covenant and UNSC long before the announcement of the new halo game from Mantic coming out! Ive been printing out miniatures and creating the two war bands for some months now and am excited to bring them to a game store soon! If you've read this long, thanks for listening to my story!

*Rhythmically pounds beer stein on table* "DON! DON! DON! DON!!"

My first game first roll of frostgrave my apprentice botched his demon summon, the demon subsequently turned around and ate him. Frostgrave is the best game.

I forgot Scott plays volleyball. Scott is the mini painting “Ken” confirmed.

Great chat, I think the bit I would add is something I have fumbled my way too, which is rather than talking about good games/bad games is to consider the game experience you want. Rules can be objectively bad or good but ultimately do you enjoy the games, does it scratch the itch. I play and have played a whole mix of games and certain system really work for certain experiences, I think historicals flagged that for me where you have the which rules is better for x period but real it is am I looking for a fun system with a historical skin to play as I catch up with friends or do I want a simulation. That isn't always the same answer, just as their isn't one way to paint something

In my city, Warhammer has been gaining some traction recently. However, I'm happy to see there are other games also gaining traction, like Gaslands. I've been playing it with a small group and it's been a blast. My personal favorite games this branch of the ludophilic spectrum are OPR, Gaslands, the Doomed, and while I don't really enjoy the game too much, The Silver Bayonet's dice system is great.

I started playing Malifaux with a buddy just before Covid hit. Right after lockdowns started lifting in the UK, a local game store opened in our town and we just started going down to the store regularly and playing there (even though I have a gaming table at my house). Fast forward a couple years, I now run regular Malifaux tournaments there and our number of players is rivalled by only maybe 40k. Be visible, be persistent and show up, and eventually people will come :) Really glad to hear other people repping for non-GW games!

That 969th Art piece is awesome! Truly a study in less is more. Outstanding! Don was a great guest - as the "Don" of my circle of friends, I really appreciated hearing his perspective...I feel somewhat more vindicated than I have ever been before.

My local store recently started stocking Conquest, and after playing a couple small games I gotta say it's super fun. You get to push big blocks of troops around, but it's a more streamlined ruleset compared to say Old World. Plus a lot of the minis are pretty fantastic now.

touching on the color card topic. Destiny 2 has "shaders" that are broken into 4 color concepts you can apply to clothing, guns, and ships to get inspiration for schemes for infantry and vehicle models.

Shake the pillars Don! From one jack to another! Love the sweater.

I'm an almost pure roleplaying gamer. I love miniatures! I have been looking into smaller games to try. I'm just not sure what yet. Brilliant episode as usual.

I play about 20-30 games of "Warhammer" a year. Split between Titanicus and Heresy. I find the game systems annoying and frustrating, but Ive been reading Heresy books for the last 15+ years and love the setting. I build, paint and play to relive those stories and make new ones with friends. I love moments where we set the rules aside and do what makes sense for our story, like today, I had a squad locked in combat that was clearly losing. I asked my opponent if I could make a shooting attack and allocate the first X unsaved wounds into my own models. The other person was stoked and we had a great moment where my Night Lords gunned down their own brothers. I dont like non-GW games because they dont have the same substance, and its not their fault.

Awesome sauce! I love all Trapped Under Plastic episodes!

I think the first one with don may be my favorite ep, and loving this one so far, great idea to have him back on for this discussion!

Once I played infinity, I never went back to GW's games. I realized you can actually have fun playing a game rather than the way 40k works.

Always glad to see Don here!

Don Haney is awesomeness! Been lucky enough to know him for years :)

1:51:52 Oh sweet summer child... The timing for development and release of a new GTA is strictly based on the selling stage of the previous one. Companies at that level of sales can predict to a dot when the sales will start decreasing enough to justify the publishing of a new edition.

love it, keep it up !

Great chat fellas

I re-watched the last episode with Don Haney last week and was like I really hope he comes back soon. So happy to see this episode drop. Edited to Don Haney from Mr.Haney after discussion of the TV show. XD

Respect the googly eyes for they are objects of power.

Frostgrave/Stargrave really is one of the greatest tabletop games of all time. Cannot recommend them enough

We MUST see Jon cosplaying as Matt Damon singing for Scott!! 😂

His sweater is pure excellence.

I loved Don's take on Minis Agnostic Games on the most recent Trapped Under Plastic. I run a bi-weekly Minis Agnostic Game Night Every Tuesday - MAGNET (Almost every Tuesday anyway...) I like Tuesday because the game store isn't usually taken up with Magic, Warhammer, RPGs or board games. I'd love it if someone with more influence would take the idea and run with it, since my range just extends to my FLGS! Do you think there's any traction for this idea?

Love hearing Reiicblade and Snarling Badger on your alternate lists. I have some Relicblade on hand that need some painting and some terrain to build and I am already considering the next purchase. Being the advocate does take work. If you have a game you are excited about, you need to find players or get people to play it with you. Guerrilla Miniature Games posted a conversation in Feb and referred to Warhammer as an Anchor Product. Like you said, how many game stores don't carry GW, or Magic, or D&D. Sure they sell other stuff. If you want to see a game (and online) retailer that doesn't, check out Covenant out of Tulsa. They support the games they are interested in and are in the process of opening their third iteration of a retail space sometime this year.

I visited a game store in Carmel, Indiana once. If I recall correctly, they didn't sell GW at all and were doing well.

30:49 wasn’t expecting conversation topic of “Ambers mom’s box” 😳😂

I wonder if the GW shield towel would hey talk about is based on the leather or cloth curtain you sometimes see shown hanging from Greek shields

I live in nz, here you can pick up some Malifaux, Shatterpoint, Marvel, Infinity ect, but for smaller direct-from-producer companies like black site studios it's almost impossible- I'm dying to pick up some Yafsiga kits but the shipping costs three times as much as the minis. Really wish it was easier to get those smaller companies outside of the US/UK

I wrote the cube lady right after watching Jon‘s video (on purchase in EU, had to order from UK), ordered the next day, it’s really nice, only skipped through the cards so far tbh, but hope it’ll help with picking color schemes which is really hard for me, normally I just do whatever with varying success.

I got all the references, yes I am old

I too would recite Poe for Forensics competitions

Good morning. Not often I catch the podcast on drop.

It dawned on me that a neat little solution GW could officially implement to make sunsetting models less.. annoying, is, once they have decided to stop producing that model, designate a specific model or unit that the discontinued model may be substituted for. They wouldn’t have to keep updated rules for things they’ve stopped supporting, and players get to keep using their stuff in new games. People are still gonna buy all the new shit anyway

Don is quite the sesquipedalian!

All I have to say is... "Amber's Mom's Box!" 30:53

Jon is like the Reddit Matt Damon

Talking about this "fear of wasting time/money" on non-gw games: Something I've been waffling on for a long time is a games club where folks pool their hobby dollars and time to explore new games together. Focus on exploring a new game once a week for a month or two, then move on or revisit old games when there is interest to do so. I think a lot of the issues folks have with playing these tabletop wargames (especially skirmish games) is the terrain. If a game store was to have a spot where you could keep terrain for you and your pals (or for the public if folks are okay with that) you could alleviate that need and help more folks jump the hurdle into new games. Plus, then you don't have to lug all your terrain to the game store every time you want to play

Don was awesome! I think you guys would have a great convo with ash from gorilla miniature! For me his reviews often determine these small niche games I love like the last war by KRD designs.

I’d have Don every week!

As someone also named Scott, I also have had enough of "Scotty doesn't know"

Don is the man

for a second i thought you had James Earl Jones in there with you! that'll teach me to look on my phone....

My wife was at some club in the 80’s where in one room The Eagles played and in another an Eagles cover band played and apparently the cover band was so much better.

I cant believe you didnt make star wars joke at 1:22:10 😊😊😊

I agree with the others here Don is a great guest!

Fantastic show gentlemen. As one of the alt-game evangelists at my LGS, I do all the terrain and bestiaries. It is a lot of work, it's true, but I love it. I have been seeing a gradual shift away from GW games and I hope it continues. There are so many amazing games that I haven't even had a chance to play yet!

I agree don't think there is a game i'm not into and still want to try, all the different rule sets makes me bankrupt.💯

Don is the best, we must protect him at all costs!

I wonder how deep you guys would get into Gaslands. The game is very fun. I think you'd dig that part, it's got X-wing movement template bones. But I wonder how you guys would take to the hobby part. Kit bashing Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars. As high end painters, there is room to put a lot of effort into them but it's hard to get human figure models in there. As painters, do you think you could get into the cars being the characters? Like, I'm sure you could enjoy doing one or two, but could it become a high priority game for you. Like Necromunda has to Scott.

My wife does 2d art and we paint in the same hobby room, its Nice to be in the zone together

ProAcryl Scott-Pink Fluo when?

DON

Dear lord, Jon please do the cosplay.

I am in the midst of Don’s exact situation. Have grown out of the churn of GW, found frostgrave for playing with friends and DLB for playing alone. Don do you have a discord or something where dorks can talk frostgrave or lament about the struggles of being activity captains?

Sarah renea Clark is friends with jazzas

Don's back! We love Don. I'm 100% with Don on alt games.. Play all the games.. So many choices nowadays that don't require a massive investment and 50 books.. It's actually a golden era of alt game choices.. Frostgrave, Forbidden Psalm, Majestic 13, Rangers of Shadow Deep, Space Weirdos, Steel Rift, OPR, ASOIF it goes on and on. Play all the games

Be careful when bringing up anything about The Eagles. You'll get a copyright strike. I'm joking but kind of not lol. The Eagles are crazy like that.

sarah renae clark colour cub lol

GW has vowed to never write good rules. They just want to print rule books every 3 years. I used to bring bot sides and get folks playing, best we did was a 1 page Skirmish set, for French Canadian War. At one point 20 players in shop battling it out. No GW, No Magic. Just historicals. I like 15mm and 6-8mm models.

So true Don! Growing up in the hobby in the 70s and 80s that was what we had to do, find and buy figures to fulfill the vision in our heads. I still enjoy that part the most so I stay away from pre-packaged stuff most of the time. I actually started doing the opposite too where I buy and read 40k lore and figures but use different rules. Also, not gonna lie but going to a store and being able to look at stuff on the shelf and buy it in real life is still my favorite. Buying online is ok but sometimes you just want to go to the local store and pickup a blister pack. To me that is part of why Warhammer is still successful because you can go anywhere, even Target now, and buy something. But I would love a shop that didn't carry Warhammer and carried all the other products, that would be great!

Got tired of the rules with GW. Tried out Star Wars legion, Bolt Acton, and OPR, all better games with better play styles. But, yes, convincing people to try them out has been really hard. People will literally complain about 40K and then refuse to try something different.

What was that Jon said about hiding stuff behind paywalls as they then launch into their own paywall for the after party...I really dislike how much content is behind patron pay walls.

Warhammer or bust!

GW are the EA/Activision of wargaming. Churning out the biggest games whilst exploiting their artists by denying them credit and ability to promote their own career and art like the comics industry in the 60s-80s and if warhammer was all digital it would be overflowing with predatory micro transaction by talentless pencil pushing greed centred business hacks. It might sound harsh but creative people don’t operate this way. Business does. You only have to look at how GW has changed and how they endlessly rip off their consumer bases with incessant price hikes for profits not the artists who make nowhere near what they should from what I’ve heard. Let alone charging $50/60 to 100+ dollars for one mini, or five. The IP is great. The artists are kicking ass. The company is predatory bullshit. It infects and rots creative businesses from the inside out. The video game industry burning alive right now and firing thousands is proof of it.

Warhammer really pisses me off. I've been selling off almost everything I've bought in the last year because I want to paint cool minis, not paint 100 of the same 3 models with different weapons and various state of capes or no capes. Warhammer was the entry, but I only want to play kill team, if I play any warhammer games

Star Wars Legion has one of the best systems out there.