Treating A Studio Start-To-Finish #4: Do MEMBRANE (RESONANCE) TRAPS work? (with AcousticsInsider)

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Күн бұрын

►► Free Download: All Room EQ Wizard Measurements From The Music City Acoustics Demo Room → www.musiccityacoustics.com/ho...
Watch Part 1: “Desk And Speaker Placement”: • Treating A Studio Star...
Watch Part 2: “Panel Placement For Full Spectrum Control”: • Treating A Studio Star...
Watch Part 3: “Does Acoustic Treatment Actually Work?” • Treating A Studio Star...
Sub-bass control with resonance traps. The holy grail of studio acoustics.
When it comes down to it, the lowest of the lowest audio frequencies can really only be properly absorbed with targeted, tuned resonance absorbers.
For most of us DIY audio engineers, this tends to be outside the scope of what we can do.
The price-performance ratio of resonance absorption is… average. To put it mildly.
And it’s not usually necessary either! You can do WAY more with standard porous material than most people think.
But if you really want to go all out with bass control into the lowest frequencies, resonance absorbers (and membrane absorbers in particular) are your only option.
And that’s what I want to show you in this week’s video.
Jesco from AcousticsInsider and I are wrapping up the treatment of our new demo room by installing membrane traps.
As before, we’ll walk you through the exact process of placing them correctly and of course: before and after measurements.
You don’t want to miss this one.
Timecodes:
00:00 - Part 4 of treating the MusicCityAcoustics demo room
01:10 Download the REW Files! (take a screenshot of REW files and show it on the screen)
02:15 What are membrane traps?
03:50 How do membrane traps work?
05:26 Do membrane traps affect the frequency or time response of a room?
05:58 How broad is the Q of membrane traps
06:35 Why don’t we use membrane traps as the first stage of treatment
09:48 How many tuned traps should you put in a room?
10:36 How to determine the right tuning for your membrane traps?
11:50 Where should you place membrane traps
16:00 REW Measurements - spectrogram
22:00 Can you put too many bass traps in a room?
23:30 What direction should the membrane face?
26:40 Membrane traps on the front wall?
28:00 Why it is best to start with porous absorption
29:22 Before and after frequency response
31:40 What do the Scatter Faces Sound like
33:20 How did the sound of the room change with the membrane traps
36:05 Before and after RT60
38:36 Waterfall graphs
39:15 Is background noise a problem?
40:40 Q&A leave your questions in the comments
Resources in this video:
Subscribe to the Acoustics Insider Channel: / acousticsinsider

Пікірлер: 41

@chrisbistrishki Жыл бұрын

Awesome video once again guys! *One more for the Q&A:* I noticed that the slats of the scatterfaces on the gobos in Graham's room follow the same sequence but the panels aren't mirrored to one another. Whereas in Jesco's room and pretty much everywhere I've seen the binary amplitude diffuser, it's recommended to flip the pattern when placing two scatterface-panels next to each other. How much difference does this make in theory and in practice, and is it even something worth paying attention to, or are the differences between the two cases minimal? Thanks a lot, keep it up you two! 🤘

@tomwaller2303 Жыл бұрын

Another great video! After I treat my room with bass traps, I might look into building some of the membrane traps if I have space/budget. I'm in the same boat as many other people in the comments here who would love some more in depth construction details like Jesco you have done with the broadband bass traps.

@billguitarvin Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much to both of you to putting in the many hours it must have taken to treat the room, experiment with placement of speakers and absorbers and make the video. I found the whole series fascinating by taking a real world situation and seeing how doing different things effected the response of the room. It was interesting to see how sometimes by making something better with the room response, it allows another problem to surface. I think anyone who is going to treat their room should watch this video to see what one can expect and realize the room response isn’t going to be perfectly flat or all your frequencies in the time domain are going to get shorter. I could see where it would be extremely frustrating if one was to treat their room, only to find as they do things to make a certain problem better, a new problem rears it’s head. Well done and very informative for setting expectations when one starts to treat their room!

@RobertKgma Жыл бұрын

Im in australia so the most cost effective option for membrane absorbers is diy. Are there any guidelines, tips or references you can provide for those of us that want to treat our lowest axial modes with membrane traps by designing and building them ourselves.

@kadiummusic Жыл бұрын

As a person just about to build a garden studio this journey has been incredibly useful. Many, many thanks to you both. 😎

@markpocock183 Жыл бұрын

Great video series guys! I really enjoyed how thoroughly you covered and documented the process. And making the REW files available...the icing on the cake. I am just going through Jesco's course on room treatment, and expect I will probably wind up wanting to include some bass traps. Do you have any recommended resources for design of membrane absorbers? I noted 2x2 sealed boxes, 1 & 2 lb mass loaded vinyl...how about approach to tuning? Thanks, well done!

@TheNickmeeks1 Жыл бұрын

Q: After you have made a membrane trap with all the right calculators etc, how do you test that its targeting the frequency its meant for? If you just 'Test the room before or after' and you wanted to kill a peak null at 80. How do you know your build is 80 and not 70, 75, 85 etc. There may be difference in MLV brands that are the same weight, but different stiffness and other things that might throw off your build.

@jonwikan3986 8 ай бұрын

Great guys!

@plexibreath Жыл бұрын

I learned a lot.

@paulbishop2161 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video - Any specific build details? How do you determine the correct tension of the MLV attached on the front of the resonator box? Thanks

@simonbaxtermusic Жыл бұрын

Would the performance be better if you built complete false walls with similar depths of absorption and amount of diffusion? I think you call it in-built? That way the panels go all the way to the floor and ceiling, and no gaps between panels since it’s a complete wall and ceiling. Would you call it a room within a room within a room? 😂 I’m planning out a basement studio that will be a very similar size room, so very curious what you would recommend. I think visually it would look much cleaner and perhaps the bass response would be tighter. Loving this video series! Thanks for putting it together for us all!

@lorenzotrivinolopez8880 Жыл бұрын

Hi. Nice video. I would love to know what vinil did you used for the membranes and where did you get it. Thanks.

@brand-pj4jc Жыл бұрын

Great video, thanks! one question: Is there a reason you focus mainly on 'bass' traps and hardly ever choose to go with thinner absorbers (for the mid-highs)? Would this kind of absorber be more relevant in a hi-fi listening room environment?

@peterkisch55 Жыл бұрын

This whole series is so interesting and very well done! I'm interested in downloading the REW measurements and I clicked the link above and got to the registration page. After the registration I got a confirmation mail and then nothing more... How do I get the download? It would be really nice to have a look at.

@MyFatherLoves 2 ай бұрын

I've got a question that I've wondered for such a long time with this video and with Jesco in particular... From 80hz down, why do studios that fall under the small-room-acoustics umbrella not employ a multi-sub approach to flatten the FR of the bass and then use treatment to take care of the decay time? For that matter, if you have your subs mounted directly under your monitors, you could even extend the multi-sub benefit higher to 120hz-150hz... maybe even higher? I've got zero treatment in my 18x19x7ft room and can shape the FR of my subs to whatever I want it to be with my multi-sub (only 2) approach and Dirac Live. This was after optimizing my seating placement and sub placement.

@jamesanubis 4 ай бұрын

I’m really intrigued with the desk in this video. Did you make it? Are there plans or at least some basic specs available?

@angeloboltinimusic Жыл бұрын

How would you place membrane absorbers for similar modes on two axes? I imagine in the corner, but a diagonal setup like that would possibly be further away from both surfaces.

@JuanJose-wt5yj Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video. Could you edit the video with Spanish subtitles? The 3 previous videos do have subtitles and this 4 does not. Written with a translator. Greetings

@eetu2532 Жыл бұрын

Thank you both, incredibly informative series. I'm a huge fan of using multiple subs distributed across the room to smoothen out the bass response (acting as active bass traps if you will). This is something mentioned in Floyd Toole's book, researched by Harman's Todd Welti, and also advocated by Earl Geddes & others. There's also the Double bass array (DBA) technique. Do you have experience using multiple subs in similar fashion and are there specific reasons you prefer resonance traps when addressing sub-bass frequencies? Additionally, subs would also help reduce the ATCs' IMD since the woofers' cone travel would be reduced dramatically and of course help you get strong output down to

@tvtime1505 Жыл бұрын

Would that work better than this?

@sebastiantomita5956 Жыл бұрын

Is there a formula for tuning those traps? How can I compute the right desnisty of the mlv and the depth of the box for a specific frequency? Also, where can I buy the right density MLV from în Europe?

@JuanJose-wt5yj Жыл бұрын

Andreas Skoglosa He asks you about the resistivity to the flow of air flow (kPa.s/m2) in your 6" (15 cm) bass trap porous panels. Can you comment on the 5th video if there are 40000? Is that the value in (kPa.s/m2) vs thickness of the porous absorbent panel is very important when it comes to being more effective at the lowest frequencies. written with translator Greetings

@JorgeGutierrez-kd4hb Жыл бұрын

How much is enough? Its like a parameter or something like +-4dBs, less than x amount of ms, kind of "flat"? I feel good with my acoustic treatment, its close to the one you show in the last video (thats thanks to your channels, I really appreciate you guys) but I cant stop adding and moving stuff even if my mixes are traveling well. Also, it will be great if can show us about how to make membrane traps! Thanks!

@andreasskoglosa Жыл бұрын

It's been a pleasure watching all four videos start to finish, thank you very much guys! I do have a couple of questions: 1. Why make four membrane traps at 32 Hz and four at 64 Hz instead of simply making eight at 32 Hz since 64 Hz is the 2nd harmonic of the 32 Hz axial room mode? 2. On MCA's website it is stated that your porous bass traps are made out of 6" (15 cm) deep mineral wool with a density of 6 pcf (96 kg/m3) which should put flow resistivity somewhere upwards of 40,000 rayls/m (40 kPa.s/m2). Why such a high density? Thanks again! :)

@JuanJose-wt5yj Жыл бұрын

Very good question. If the resistivity to the flow of the air passage is (40 kPa.s/m2), a panel of only 15 cm is not appropriate. His would be panels from 20 cm thick and with a resistivity of 10000 kPa.s/m2 and for panels 40-60 cm thick (bass trap soffit), 3000 kPa.s/m2 wool. I hope they answer your comment in the 5 video. written with translator Greetings

@andreasskoglosa Жыл бұрын

Just to be clear, I do not know for sure that flow resistivity is 40 kPa.s/m2 because it is difficult to find any data on this specific product. Even more confusing is the term "mineral wool" used by Owens Corning, since this hardly specifies whether it is made of glass or basalt rock. Generally speaking, there is a rather linear 2:1 ratio between glass fiber and rock wool when comparing flow resistivity to density. Meaning for any given target flow resistivity, you only need half the density of glass fiber to compete with rock wool. Thus, if Thermafiber is indeed 6lb rock wool we arrive at something like 30-40 kPa.s/m2, but if on the other hand it is glass fiber we have a whooping 60-80 kPa.s/m2. My bet is "mineral wool" refers to rock wool without Owens Corning having to mention the name of their biggest competitor Rockwool.

@JuanJose-wt5yj Жыл бұрын

@@andreasskoglosa Yes, I am clear, that is why I have asked individually to see if they clarify it in 5 videos. What is clear to me is that for absorbent porous panels up to 20 cm thick, the best It is 10,000 kPa.s/m2, from greater thicknesses 5,000 kPa.s/m2 and whoever can put in corners, for example, panels from 40 to 60 cm thick, better 3,000 kPa.s/m2 In addition, with a multisub configuration it is not necessary to put any type of resonator. It would also be nice if they commented on it.I will be attentive to the 5 video to see if they comment on it. Greetings

@chinmeysway Жыл бұрын

Interesting how the peaks and dips are pretty strategically spaced across the frequency bands...

@iDunnoMan9000 10 ай бұрын

Question: Could the pupper in the back act as low-end absorption?

@zachmoyer1849 4 ай бұрын

what would be the best method to put inside a wall to keep outside noise from entering a building?

@Po_barabanuu 3 ай бұрын

Great video! Im interested in membrane traps. Can you tell what type of material is using as membrane ?

@MusicCityAcoustics 3 ай бұрын

Thanks so much! The membrane can be several different materials (e.g. mass loaded vinyl, plywood, plexiglass, etc.). For our membrane traps, we use mass-loaded vinyl (MLV).

@linguafranca86 Жыл бұрын

The slotted desk is a great idea. I'm planning to try build one.

@AntoineHoubron 7 ай бұрын

REW should change name for REWM. Rewm Eq Wizard & Measurements, would make the thing recursive, as GNU

@chinmeysway Жыл бұрын

Need new content !!!

@Oneness100 5 ай бұрын

4 boxes? Not enough surface coverage.

@digidope Жыл бұрын

Exact opposite: Membrane trap is extremy naorrowband and Helmholtz is wider band. Thats why membranes are for surgical correction of say 30hz and HH for wider bands in upper hz. Other than that, great video! Note/ Membrane trap CAN be done wideband, but then the Q is so low that you get maybe 0.2 reduction when 0.7-0.9 is what you usually want.

@alexyakas Жыл бұрын

You've got it the other way around...

@digidope Жыл бұрын

@@alexyakas? Post here link of HH that is targeted to 29hz.

@orioldepagesmoyes5978 9 ай бұрын

exactly

@Oneness100 5 ай бұрын

I would be using a Diaphragmatic instead of membrane and I would use a VERY dense and porous fill material. There's designs out there to make far more effective low frequency absorption devices, but you still need a lot of surface coverage, and it depends on how much energy you are putting in the room. Helmholtz generally are tuned to a specific frequency, and they aren't going to really absorb that much at that frequency, plus they are large units. Pound for pound, sq ft to sq ft, the most effective is diaphragmatic, a cousin to membrane. But it's a combination of the depth of the cabinet, the way the front wall or walls are constructed and then fill material and amount of fill material.