Tretinoin and dermal thinning | The rarely-discussed longer-term evidence in detail

Рет қаралды 9,143

Жыл бұрын

Back in December I organised and hosted a debate on this channel with the intention of discussing some of the less explored evidence around using the prescription retinoid tretinoin as an anti-aging treatment long-term.
To do that I invited two contributors who I had previously interviewed on the channel and who had brought new and interesting perspectives.
The first was Ivan Galanin, a veteran of the pharmaceuticals industry. The second was Dr Qian Xu, a highly experienced British doctor and aesthetics specialist.
Yet the information shared and views expressed in our discussion were very prominently called into question in a response video by KZfaqr and dermatologist Dr Dray, and others, and the contributors in my debate were accused of misinformation and being factually incorrect.
This unleashed a considerable amount of online criticism of each of us involved.
My initial response was simply to share the evidence used to support the statements made in the debate in the comments section of the video and to just move on and put it behind us, but it became clear to me that it is simply unfair to deny Ivan and Dr Qian the right to reply.
In this video they address the accusations of misinformation and, crucially, work through the data in black and white supporting the views expressed.
This video and all content on this channel is for informational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice and should not be treated as a substitute for medical advice.
#retina #tretinoin
Subscribe to my channel here kzfaq.info...
You can find links and, where possible, discount codes for some of my favourite anti-aging and beauty products at go.shopmy.us/TheHonestChannel
Timestamps:
00.00 Intro
03:00 Dr Qian on her protocol and experience
06:20 Ivan Galanin on why he's qualified to discuss tretinoin
09:22 FDA approved indications
18:52 The data behind papillary dermal thinning claims
35:35 The data relating to collagen synthesis
43:38 Research relating to facial fat health
53:09 Conclusion
I use affiliate links on this channel which means if you choose to buy a product using one of my links I receive a small commission - thank you! : )
This video is not sponsored. You can find my commercial policy here www.youtube.com/@TheHonestCha...
Edited by David at www.redfacilities.com

Пікірлер: 286

@drehoward9670 Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for the follow up on this. I think it is so important for us to not accept anything without asking questions, and only accepting what works for us personally. An informed decision generally requires pros and cons and different talking points. This is why discussions like this are imperative. Great post 👏🏼💫

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you! Really appreciate the support. ❤️

@UdoADHD Жыл бұрын

I’m so proud that you had them come back to discuss our responses!!

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you! 🙏

@annalinstrum8558 Жыл бұрын

Top notch journalism from you Clare! A wonderfully balanced and sensible video, I feel so much better informed than I did before.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you! So glad you found it helpful. ❤️

@mtngrl5859 Жыл бұрын

Clare, thanks for having this discussion with your two guests again. First, your skin looks so beautiful today;) I really like it with your hair up! I feel so bad for the attacks on Ivan, he is so genuine. Great discussion today ;)

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@CherylBerryl Жыл бұрын

It's really DISPICABLE the attacks! Not to mention, juvenile! As Ivan stated, Respectful dialogue is needed. The science is NEVER "settled", for anyone to say that it, it's just Rediculous! It's actually the antithesis of Science! I am Really sickened at how Crass people behave online! It now seems to have become the "norm" for people that disagree with one another to immediately lash out in such a disrespectful way.

@skinme2340 Жыл бұрын

@@CherylBerryl 50 years of research on tretinoin are pretty “settled”. Why don’t we start questioning Ivan’s skincare line that magically restored face fat loss? I’m sorry but science is not for everyone.

@sylvia8112 4 ай бұрын

@@skinme2340Looks like it's a bit magical and he also worked with scientists to create this. I know people who have real improvement in their fat, not a plumpnes that goes away once the serum is not applied.

@Thenachobear101 Жыл бұрын

Glad that this is being put out. This is probably the only discussion against continuous tretinoin that i know of.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you. Continuing long term may be right for those whose skin fully adjusts to it but I think there are people who struggle on with dryness and redness on and off who may well benefit from stepping down in strength, using it less frequently or switching to something else.

@SarahCrookall Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot for providing the response to this conversation, Claire. It’s important to have critical conversations about this science with a range of experts who might be able to interpret the data better. Cheers! -Sarah

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thanks Sarah!

@skinme2340 Жыл бұрын

Well they do not understand data better, one of them is not a doctor or science and he was graduated in business - lots of the statements he has made in the first video on tretinoin were indeed false and misleading.

@claudiaglows Жыл бұрын

Great job looking at all the different angles! I am definitely a tretenoin believer and it has done wonders for my skin, but it is great to question things and realize that nothing is a one fits all.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thanks Claudia. I always appreciate your support! It does seem that tretinoin suits some skin types more than others. Your skin looks great!! X

@gma2039 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for providing a follow-up. These discussions are always very thought provoking.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@drselmakhamassi8188 Жыл бұрын

Great discussion ! Thank you all for allowing such an interesting discussion . I am really sorry for the discreditation campaign you all went through

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you! I really appreciate that.

@francophile6948 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this video. I do feel that people are less tolerant of other views which is part of a wider problem. This was really helpful. My beautician said she’d noticed that the women who use tretinon have thinner skin.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

I agree, people seem to have become more polarised and less tolerant of debate. Glad you found this helpful and thanks for your support.

@bonniehaigh8579 Жыл бұрын

I agree - more tolerance is reauired and I think for me tretinoin would give me thinner skin. I only ever used retinol and retinal but they both did not help my skin in any way at all.

@canesugar911 Жыл бұрын

Yeah, kind of like how alot of people are not tolerant to dr drays legitimate response. I suggest you watch her video.

@kristinna8910 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the debate. I enjoyed it! I also made me wonder what your thoughts are on Adapalene/Differin for aging well journey?

@fughjivfddtguugc2955 Жыл бұрын

Love your professionality and approach! Also your video are always the most the most interesting.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much!

@aqswdefr8838 Жыл бұрын

I'd be curious to understand what Ivan actually recommends for building collagen, dealing with bone absorption, and muscle degeneration, that all contribute to nasolabial folds. Maybe an episode of nasolabial folds and treatment for it would be greatly appreciated with Ivan!

@kelseys2142 Жыл бұрын

id be curious about bone absorbtion.. i think I heard Natto is good for that because of the K2

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

Yes vitamin D3 and K2

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

For muscle no lie just do exercice.. it is like thé body after 30 we loose muscle… but if you exercice you keep them

@sandieb9273 Жыл бұрын

Well done Clare - loved this, and I'm so pleased you ended with the positivity note of sticking with your own skincare routine if your skin is happy. and glowing x

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Absolutely!

@lindajoy23 Жыл бұрын

Hi Claire, thank you and your guests for returning to this discussion with further clarification of the subject matter ❤ I think the reaction from certain KZfaqrs and their subscribers to the first debate was somewhat narrow minded, bring on healthy discussion 😉

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you Linda. I appreciate that.

@sadafshakeel2062 Жыл бұрын

Atlast someone spoke the truth. 😢 I am the one who has suffered from facial atrophy and permanent redness on my cheeks due to tretnion. 😢 And now it's almost 2 years and the damage is not healing. I don't why every dermatologist deny the truth. Please suggest some treatment for me. 😢

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

So sorry to hear this. I do wonder if sometimes patients are started on too high strength a dose and experience severe inflammatory reactions. I'm not a doctor so I'm not best placed to suggest treatments I'm afraid. I do hope you can find the right help.

@elizabethr4107 2 ай бұрын

I am so sorry this happened to u.

@vesdhiteas5378 Жыл бұрын

Debate is good for the development of science, and I appreciate this video. I hope that more dermatologists and experts will join this debate.

@maireadweaver8952 Жыл бұрын

I am so delighted that you, Dr Qian and Ivan got to reply to all the mayhem online!! Some of it, in my opinion, was quite unfair .. surely it can only be a good thing to question the science behind skincare claims and open-up a healthy (and respectful) debate. Thank you for this, it was really interesting and informative (despite being inconclusive!!). BTW you look lovely with your hair in a ponytail .. your skin looks great!!! Another great post from you and your guests.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you Mairead! I appreciate the support ❤️

@mimimoon6082 Жыл бұрын

Looking forward to watching this video!

@courtneyjackson4843 Жыл бұрын

I’m a frequent vitamin a user and yet I do feel that (unfortunately) people just have to experiment on themselves and see what works for them. I do believe that those of us who love it had horrible acne in our youth. I can’t explain it but it seems to be what I’ve observed.

@wendylpa Жыл бұрын

Perfect discussion! & proof humans can have different views on the same topic, focus on the actual science, listen to each other, & NOT lose their minds. Based on the blow-back online, that's a basic communication skill that is foreign to most. Thank you for reconvening these folks to continue this important discussion!

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you Wendy! Grateful for the support ❤️

@kasiajackowska7006 11 ай бұрын

New generation (Z) needs to learn otherwise end up as a primitive consumer feeding by advertising buissnes

@sage2242 Жыл бұрын

Thank you for this great discussion. I used tretinoin daily for 3 years. My acne problem did disappear. But into the 3rd years of using, I noticed that my skin was somehow burnt, darkened and rough although I didn’t feel any irritation or see any flaking. And after I stopped using tretinoin, it got better, even better before I used tretinoin now that I don’t have acne problem.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience. Glad your skin is in good shape now.

@CherylBerryl Жыл бұрын

Great discussion. It's amazing that when a topic is dug into deeper, what you might actually find out. And how so many studies seemingly aren't very long term at all, yet can be labeled "safe & effective" "gold standard", etc. When studies are sponsored, there could very well be a self serving agenda on behalf of the financial sponsor. It's extremely important to scrutinize Everything having to do with this study. As I always say, "follow the money", & unfortunately too much science is "for sale". So Claire, based on your prior interview with your guests, & this current interview, what have you personally decided to do as far as your routine with using Tretinoin, &/or retinaldhyde, Retinol? I'd really be curious to know. Another discussion I would love to hear you have an expert panel on is home use microcurrent devices, home use laser devices, & home use sound wave devices ie: the Time Master Pro. Thanks Claire! 🤗

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Good points and ideas there, Cheryl. I’d definitely like to do something on microcurrent it’s just a case of finding the right experts. I’m still using retinal at the moment - I find my skin is happiest when I’m using something gentler, but I wouldn’t rule out using a lower strength tret (prob 0.025) three nights a week at some point - or doing a more intensive burst of three to six months on it again. My skin just can’t handle higher strength tret though.

@melissawoods610 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel Claire, I do think you should consider tretinoin 0.025 strength. I do 4-5x /week and that seems good, you get better benefit with less potent strength, at least in my opinion. I have fair Minnesota skin so yep can’t go ham on it.

@SarahCrookall Жыл бұрын

Just adding: Anecdotally, I've noticed that each time I've used Tretinoin without doing anything else different, my skin worsens; wrinkles show up, my pores look bigger, and my skin appears more crepey. I've used it several times with the same results and I'm in my 30s. I do have thin skin though. It's one reason I'm so interested in this conversation because it's something I've noticed for a very long time, but haven't found anything accessible on the internet about it.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing this Sarah. This weekend I’m going to publish an interview with a very experienced derm who believes tret only works out for a small minority of her patients. It just doesn’t seem to help out every skin type.

@SarahCrookall Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel Looking forward to it!

@mettek620 Жыл бұрын

I am mid thirties and had the same problem, realized that my skin had become very dry, after tret I put on a thick layer of aloe Vera, followed by the Nivea cream in the blue tin which I massage into my skin, I go to bed very oily, and wake up with very beautiful and hydrated skin…. Maybe it will work for you as well…

@bonniehaigh8579 Жыл бұрын

I have the same problem with retinal and I am in my 70's and only used it for around 4 years because I kept hearing about it. It made my skin worse, like yours! For me, less is more so I am focusing now on Vit C, the Adipeau in the evenings with no other product and my skin looks very hydrated in the mornings. I only moisturizer after the Vit C, and sun protection if I am outside.

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

Did your skin recover after the use of tret ? Did your pores and crepey disappear please ? And how and when ? Thank you

@carriespackman762 Жыл бұрын

I love this follow up so interesting

@michelles2299 Жыл бұрын

Very well done on responding to the critics I use tretinoin long term its not only improved my skin noticeably but saved me a lot of money on other skin care products I no longer buy all I need is a good SPF 50 tretinoin at night and a good day night moisturiser I love tretinoin x

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thanks Michelle! Always appreciate your support and pleased to hear tret is working for you long term x

@wallycola5653 7 ай бұрын

One of the hallmarks of solar elastosis is that it thickens skin, such as the patients in the Bhawan paper. It makes sense that tretinoin the skin to thin as it undoes that damage. I would guess that what's happening in the paper is that caused the patients' deformed skin to slough off, resulting in thinning, and then it slowly thickened the skin.

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

I have used tret for my acne (I am 27 F) I started in 2021 Feb., all was good even too good to be true. My skin was flawless no acne anymore no texture BUT after 9 months of use my skin began to show wrinkles suddenly (it was overnight) on my forehead and BIG pores on my inner cheeks that connected when I smile… directly I thought it was because of tret (that deshydrated my skin even with all hydrating product it was like my skin rejected all hydrating products). My texture became rough and dull. So I stopped tret and NOW my forehead doesn’t have the wrinkles anymore and my pores have desappeared (not all but surely They will go away). What I want to say is the use of tret in the long term is… dangerous for some people. My case is not the only one… on Reddit many cried because their skin never went back as they were Before the use of tret (even after only 1 month of usage !) so be careful with tretinoin and retinoid. Sorry for my english I am from France 🥰😊. Love your videos ❤️

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

And I want to add that I do use sunscreen EVERYDAY that I apply every 2 hours. I have never tanned in my life and skip the sun like a vampire. My diet is on point (medditeranean diet full of veggies fish high supplements since I was 16).

@Adhara740 Жыл бұрын

I have heard a lot of stories similar to this

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

Yes… A lot of stories on the forums show that tret has side effects that are very dangerous because some did not recover… I think the fact that I did not use anything on my skin since december helped me. I only wash my face with pure rose water and Massage aloe vera then pure prickly pear oil on my skin. Thanks to God my skin glows again but my « connected lines » on my cheeks when I smile are still here and I don’t know if it is reversible. I have faith They will fade away

@josipag2185 Жыл бұрын

@@Adhara740 Well I have heard au contraire, mostly. I haven't used it, I used isotretinoin pills and back then, it was the only thing that saved my skin. I have terrible cystic, nodular acne at 23-24.

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

We talk about topical tretinoin… not Roaccutane (aka the pills)

@user-fr4ri3mk8b 5 ай бұрын

Thank you. The interview was interesting and informative.

@dianaelias2752 Жыл бұрын

I have a question if you are so kind to answer it: if tretinoin does decrease papillary dermal thickness, and has no effect on elastosis...how does actually improve the appearance of wrinkles? Because it has been our observation that wrinkles do improve slightly and new wrinkles form very slowly. What is the mechanism?

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Hi. Yes, the evidence is clear that tretinoin does reduce fine lines. The primary mechanism is by speeding up the life cycle of skin cells.

@karenoshane2145 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the interesting discussion. Especially thanks to Ivan for his courage to discuss the studies he found.

@shtacker6380 Жыл бұрын

Clare, so glad to see you continued the debate (despite the online mayhem so unfair and uncalled for), moving forward with even deeper insight❤ I really admire you and enjoy your channel ! Please keep it up❤

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

I appreciate that so much. Thank you!

@davidsotir4318 Жыл бұрын

Thank you Claire for stimulating further discussion! When it comes to any medication or pharmaceutical, the results people achieve will inevitably vary and there will always be a point of diminishing returns depending on each individual.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thanks David.

@mgray3130 Ай бұрын

After the responses from a lot of Dr. reactions that came after I'll have to say you really have the skin, so to speak, to return to this topic!! I think you really have to think about aging thins your skin, so does one know the reason for the skin. I have now looked at so many articles I'm overwhelmed. My what a complicated topic from a single ingredient. Happy days people.

@anjaxtv Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for this ❣️❣️

@enkhjargalchimedtseren9775 Жыл бұрын

I know it sounds strange, but does anyone get more pores and the pores join together to extend their size? I am not a smoker or acne prone. I started retino-a year and a half ago and still, I haven't seen any benefit that people usually swear by. I think there is some skin type don't really work with retina -A? Some people said it gets worse before getting the good benefits. tretinoin use face book group members (some) also experienced pores and orange skin type of texture when they use retino-a. I hydrate very well my body and skin. Which tretinoin brand is more effective anyone? Thanks in advance

@stacyrlee Жыл бұрын

I’ve tried retin A and trentinoin a few different times and never saw any benefits. I have my fair share of stretched pores too. I just can’t say for sure what the cause is.

@TheShumoby 8 ай бұрын

@@stacyrleeit's due to the sloughing off of the top layer of the epidermis exposing more of the circumference of individual pores creating the orange skin peel look.

@elizabethr4107 2 ай бұрын

Tysm for this follow-up ❤

@thehonestchannel 2 ай бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@hg3895 Жыл бұрын

My goodness....the cult mentality on a single ingredient. Keep doing what you are doing! I've read comments of seriously distraught women after using tretnoin. Mainly facial volume loss at a young age. Thank you for the honesty.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Really appreciate that. Thank you ❤️

@debpalm8667 Жыл бұрын

Thanks so much! Very interesting 🤔.

@Adhara740 Жыл бұрын

Great video

@mashaal7782 Жыл бұрын

Interesting discussion! I wonder if retinol or retinaldehyde can also prevent preadipocytes from maturing.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

It does raise that question, but we just don’t have any research to try to answer it. It’s a longer conversion process for over the counter retinoids so they are less potent. I just use mine 3/4 nights a week though.

@tallisinwonderland4724 Жыл бұрын

Hi Claire, another great video. Your face is looking so much younger, Adipeau is clearly working. Do you see a difference?

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you! I do think the Adipeau cream helped with volume in my cheeks but I also think there's a few things at play. I tried to list them all in the video I did the other week to coincide with my 50th but there was a lot to get through!! : )

@sandragill714 Жыл бұрын

I'm not able to use any form of retinoid tretinoin. I have ezema and allergies.

@jimstevens2001 Жыл бұрын

I’m an American man of an age somewhat older than Clare. Can you believe it! Anyway my girlfriend has used retinol so I looked into it on YT today. I fortunately found Clare’s channel and decided to try Dermatica’s tretanoin on my weathered skin. I can’t see using an OTC retanoid when the best is available for the same price or less. Thanks for a fun channel Clare.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Hope it works out well for you Jim!

@bonniehaigh8579 Жыл бұрын

Great video! Kudos to you for bringing them back. Ignore the trollls! I have never used tretonoin - only retinol which did not do a thing for my skin. I only used it 3 times a week but nada. Last year I switched over to retinalhyde but that makes my skin drier and seems to make my fine lines worse. I stopped using it........ I just started using Adipeau and only use it at night without any other products. In the morning my skin is very hydrated and is defintely plumper. I do believe 'less is more" when it comes to skin care but, of course, everyone's skin is different. I have given up on retinal and only hydrating now with Vit C in the AM with a moisturizer and sun cream protection (if I am outside during the day) I am comitted to using the Adipeau conistently and correctly so only time will tell. People should stop picking on Dr. Ivan or any other Dr. and people should defintely be more tolerant. I had an esthecian tell me years ago, that retinol could thin out my skin if I used it too often. I think your age, diet, lifestyle is a factor no matter what you are doing! Skin care can be very subjective and that is why I am somewhat leery of skin reviews as I know that my skin due to my age, and heritage (English, scottish, naturla redhead) is different than all my friends who have olive skin, dont burn in the sun, and generally have thicker skin to start off with? Glad I did not use retinol or any form of it for too long. I haven't used my retinalhyde for over a month and my skin looks better and seems more moisturized. Personally, I feel Ivan is brilliant!

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience - and I love the name Bonnie! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

For the adipeau cream did it restore your facial fat volume?

@ary.x Жыл бұрын

You should have used retinol. Your skin looks wrinkly

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

@@ary.x I used tretinoin for a year and now use a retinal. Thanks for the kindness.

@Bea_Rosy 8 ай бұрын

@@ary.xShe did use it, it doesn’t suit everyone’s skin, and personally I think her skin looks great. Age and wrinkles come to us all eventually my friend, when I was your age I couldn’t imagine ever having wrinkles 😮

@inesbelkhadi5301 6 ай бұрын

Merci pour ce que vous faites. J’ approuve moi même d’ près mon expérience personnelle que la tretinoine à 0.05 affine considérablement la peau. Chose que j’ n’ai pas remarqué avec le retinol à 0,5 pendant un an .Ma question est si les deux produits ont le même effet indésirable à long terme ?

@thehonestchannel 6 ай бұрын

Nous ne disposons pas de données à long terme sur l'utilisation quotidienne du rétinol, j'en ai peur, mais il est moins puissant que la trétinoïne et aura donc moins d'avantages et d'inconvénients. J'espère que cette traduction a du sens!

@WooWooGirl Жыл бұрын

When I spoke with Ivan while purchasing his Adipeau product...he told me to throw out my Retinol...which horrified me. It appears that he was only referring to "Tretinoin" a prescription which I've never used and not OTC Retinol which I DO use. It took me years, to follow the advice of Derms to use some kind of Retinol for aging skin. I hope this video clarifies if I am making a correct assumption here, or an incorrect one. I know the prescription version is very strong...so is OTC Retinol still okay to use? I hope someone can clarify my assumption? Ivan didn't say Tretenoin...just Retinol...when he told me that upsetting advice.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Hi. I replied to your earlier comment about Ivan’s advice so hopefully you saw that. He was only discussing tretinoin in this video. I use an OTC retinal every other night and believe that with any retinoid if your skin is happy and healthy there is no need to discontinue use. That goes for tret too as it clearly works wonders for some users, but it can be too strong for others and do more harm than good.

@WooWooGirl Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel I would agree with that. I never had acne so never needed it as a teenager. I came LATE to the Retinol craze. Also late to the "SUNSCREEN CRAZE". In the mid 70's when I grew up...most parents including mine, never insisted on wearing any, so my fair skin baked like a pie. I kind of wish I would have born in the Generation X timeframe...when there was so much more information about skincare and so much more available to mitigate sun damage. Also...that generation KNOWS TECHNOLOGY. I suck at it. Thank you for responding to my questions.

@ST-111 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if any of your guests have a hypothesis about what a thinner papillary dermis (or other dermal layers) means.. and i mentioned this in a comment on the other video.. how should we think about retinol? Should we avoid long term use too?

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

That really is the big question - just what does that reduction in papillary dermal thickness mean? It may not mean very much, it may be helpful or unhelpful but because it's just not been discussed or investigated further we don't know. There is no comparable long-term data on retinol that I'm aware of or other over-the-counter retinoids but they work more gradually on the skin so are less likely to have a profound effect. My feeling with tret is that if you've been using it long-term and your skin looks healthy and strong then there's really no issue. There are quite a few people who continue to use it longer-term even though their skin is not very happy because they see it as the gold-standard and it's really at that point I might take another look at it.

@ST-111 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel thanks for your input :) I'm wondering now if there are any benefits at all to otc retinoids or tretinoin (well maybe thats an exaggeration). I've tried 0.01% tret before and it was absolutely horrible. I used it for approx 4months and got bad cystic acne on my cheeks and many closed comedones, but continued to use it for longer than i think i would have had it not been so hyped!

@kasiajackowska7006 11 ай бұрын

You are so in thru with subject, from my practice, notice that clients who used retinoids long term, in age 50-60 is waxy skin .. It's feeling missing structure.

@michele0324 Жыл бұрын

I hope people watching will be respectful of your channel and the guests even if their opinions' differ. :)

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I hope so too.

@michele0324 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel I appreciate this follow up video and, what's more, I appreciate knowing each participant's credentials /interest in the topic. Thank you for a job very well done. On a personal note, I'm inspired by your grace. 🙂

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

@@michele0324 That is so kind of you to say and means a lot - thank you ❤️

@melissawoods610 Жыл бұрын

I must say that while my skin is clearer and wrinkles have diminished immensely over 1 year of tret use, I KNOW that my skin has also thinned. Yes, thinned. I will still continue to use tretinoin because of the amazing benefits, but I don’t need a single study to give me the data, I can see in the mirror!

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your experience Melissa!

@222ouch Жыл бұрын

keep in mind that skin thins as you get older no matter what you use or do not use.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

@@222ouch That is true although that wouldn't account for the extent of the reduction in papillary dermal thickness which was most pronounced in the first year.

@kelseys2142 Жыл бұрын

Cutting back your usage might help. I've spoken to nurses in the skincare industry about this, they use it once or twice a week because too much will cause skin thinning.

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

I had this problem but when you stop thé skin come back

@rose2dimples Жыл бұрын

I've been using Tret for years... probably 5+ years. I do not use everyday, usually twice a week. And when I do I only use it with no other serums. Just a bit of dermaveen moisturiser and i mix it in. How's my skin? Well for 41 I think I'm looking pretty good. No deep wrinkles just a few fine lines. But I think the tret has kept me very line free for longer than someone else my age. I honestly think it helped over the years with my freckles, lightened them but didn't get rid of them. I do take care of my skin, lots of sunscreen, good skincare, LED mask, if I have money I'll get a facial/ peel / or some form of treatment. If you really want to see a big difference, I'd actually recommend getting Radio Frequency treatment. It has really lifted and tightened my skin. Sure it's expensive, cost me about 350 for face and neck it works. I'm also Asian, so I am lucky that I do agree a bit slower than most people. I have over the years taken breaks from it... but that's like a few weeks or so.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

I think the way you use tret sounds really smart.

@rose2dimples Жыл бұрын

@The Honest Channel I was told from the beginning, not to use it everyday. If I do, my skin dries out around my mouth and nose.

@rafe9962 Жыл бұрын

Very good debate. Thank you!

@melodydunn4546 2 ай бұрын

This is a great discussion. I had sudden fat loss and aging on my face and I'm now convinced it was due to tretinoin, possibly exasperated by red light therapy.

@222ouch Жыл бұрын

My dermatologist said that the tretenoin helps with skin damage from sun and can actually prevent skin cancer. People are getting good results with tretinoin. Of course you would take breaks every few days or more if there is too much skin sloughing. I also read the doctor here has a skin product he is selling

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

The Doctor want to open debates about tretinoin… and new studies need to be done about the side effects with the facial fats and collagen production…

@HereDiianas Жыл бұрын

The first Dermatologist who made videos on KZfaq many years ago is Dr Schultz. His videos are still out there and he was not the biggest fan of Tretinoid for anti-aging either so we should just accept that not all Dermatologist will agree on every single thing. What we need to know is their reasons and then make decisions for ourselves. Some things in medecine are Black and white and some are not.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Tretinoin does offer benefits for our skin, particularly over the first six months of use. This conversation is intended to explore the long-term results.

@tallisinwonderland4724 Жыл бұрын

Yes he does and to be fair it’s incredible. Does everything he says it does - totally restored the fullness around my mouth area. I know you didn’t ask 😂 but he’s product is so good I think he knows what he’s talking about.

@johndoe9362 Жыл бұрын

@@HereDiianas I remember Dr. Schultz.

@corriewightwick4633 Жыл бұрын

could Ivan consider some sort of subscription to make his product cheaper? Like Dermatica and Skin and Me do with their tretinoin packages. Just an idea.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Hi. You can email Adipeau at info@adipeau.com to share your suggestion. Skincare subscriptions are a great idea for regular users.

@MarsX69 Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for inviting these guests again. Lots of value and insights here. Quick question. Can you please invite Jennifer Myers? Please look up a few of her videos about this topic. She’s using tretinoin for almost 20 years with amazing results. Besides that, she’s a great person. Looking forward having her on your awesome channel.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

I would love to interview Jennifer on the channel. Can’t guarantee she’ll say yes but I can ask the question.

@MarsX69 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel That would be really amazing! I know she’s a bit shy, but I hope she does. Thank you Clare and please keep us in the loop about this topic. Thumbs up!

@kmjdebay Жыл бұрын

Another person who has used tretinoin LONG term over 20 years, is @Melissa55, who is now 67 and has beautiful skin. Both Melissa and Jennifer started it because of acne and it seems to have preserved their skin. BUT neither began their journey with significant sun damage or wrinkles, and since they started young, they started with good quality skin. What about starting in your 60s with sun damage and thin skin? This is such an important debate! Thank you for pursuing it.

@SleeplessinOC 8 ай бұрын

@@kmjdebayMelissa has Crohn’s so it’s really ironic that someone said it seems quite a few people who use it has Crohn’s although I can’t remember at what age she started having Crohn’s so it’s possible one had nothing to do with the other.

@troymoeller936 Жыл бұрын

@moskinlab thoughts?

@cearilindubhlaoi9507 Жыл бұрын

I've stopped tretinoin after 9mths it was a waste of time & money..there was no difference to my skin in fact I think its worse ...maybe it works for some ..I got it from an Aesthetics Dr who compounds it in local lab ..€175 every 2mths such a rip off so ofcourse ppl are going to dispute you guys talking negatively as too much money to lose ...I applaud you all for bringing this conversation with the backed science 👏 ❤❤

@Lanafox1020 10 ай бұрын

In latinamerica it is without prescription, in Costa Rica it costs between $20-$25. It increased a lot, in other countries it's even cheaper than that.

@dennisguilder1 Жыл бұрын

I like this channel a lot. One question for Ivan though. If it truly does cause fat loss, how would it be reversed?

@MissKrisLoves 9 ай бұрын

The product he sells lol

@moonhaze8332 6 ай бұрын

@@MissKrisLoves Hi, I'm 82 years old and currently use the wonderful product that Ivan sells. This may seem unbelievable, but I now look to be about 12 years old. People often mistake me for a child. His cream is indeed miraculous ! completely miraculous !!

@anjaxtv Жыл бұрын

Claire! Did you continue with Adipeau? ❤️ I'm on month 4 and I love the results ☺️

@francophile6948 Жыл бұрын

I’m been using it about 6 weeks and would love a further update too!

@anjaxtv Жыл бұрын

@francophile6948 where do you use it? The one thing I've noticed is the fullness of the apples of my cheeks 😍

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Hi. That’s great to hear. I included a six-month update when I did a video recently on my skincare routine at 50. I included before and afters that I think showed good results. I’ve now stopped using it for a while to try out other products

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

I found it worked best on my cheeks

@anjaxtv Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel can't wait to watch that video!! Thank you ❤️✨️

@irmelaroma 5 ай бұрын

I have started using prescription strength tretinoin 10 years ago to treat a very rare and severe form of acne and it's the only type of treatment that has completely eliminated the acne. It has also reduced pores and scares to a certain extent and only after 2 or 3 years of using it. My skin is thinner, I can't do any waxing treatments on my face as my skin would come off but that's not an issue for me as I use other hair removal techniques. The skin on my face and hands also became lighter of the years. I didn't get rid of any wrinkles and I can't say whether it prevented new ones from forming as I don't know how I would look like now with using tretinoin in the last 10years. But I'll certainly continue to use it as long as I feel it's beneficial for my skin.

@thehonestchannel 5 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing your experience with us

@daraamagi6286 6 ай бұрын

I've been using tretinoin for 3 years and I feel like my face has aged dramatically in this time. My uneven skintone and redness really improved but I have a huge increase in fine lines and I definitely have fat loss and an increase in deeper wrinkles too. I cant say for sure that this has been caused by tretinoin, I don't know what else could have caused it but lets say its 3 years and it could just be aging. But I don't see how I could have so many more fine lines when its meant to treat them. Thank you for this video

@thehonestchannel 6 ай бұрын

Sorry to hear you've had this experience.

@heeeq0 Жыл бұрын

can someone pls summarize this 1 hour long video. my adhd will thank you

@Neonrain08 Жыл бұрын

basically the man is trying to sell his fat loss cream, the female dr once again is saying odd things about tret (use it a few weeks then stop?) whole thing is just as bizarre as the first video, this whole thing has really put me off this channel

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

They showed data about the collagen production in the first months of tret usage and talk about effects in the long term. They open a debate about tret and side effects (with proofs of course)

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

She is absolutely not the only doctor saying to use tret this way…

@melissawoods610 Жыл бұрын

Totally true. While I LOVE tretinoin, I find that taking mini breaks most effective. I use other anti again skin products during those breaks, then go back to tretinoin. Seems my skin does best with this approach. But I’ll prob use tretinoin forever.

@heeeq0 Жыл бұрын

@@melissawoods610 just curious, what other anti ageing products?

@ana-pi6ut Жыл бұрын

this was so over my head

@anupamahaldar7063 11 ай бұрын

Tretinoin caused volume loss in my face in just matter of days.l am heartbroken and angry too because of the way it's widely promoted without any consideration for the rare side-effects,across the beauty community.

@thehonestchannel 10 ай бұрын

I'm really sorry to hear that. I have had quite a few other viewers share similar experiences.

@orangefox5121 10 ай бұрын

Nothing in terms of a topical can cause volume loss in the face in the matter of days, unless you had a sudden weight loss which coincided with the start of the topical. But even weight loss does not happen in the “ matter of days”.

@mynamo12 7 ай бұрын

@@orangefox5121You people always say this even though there are hundreds people online who have gotten the exact same side effect.

@Emily-ns2eg 3 ай бұрын

Hey :) How is it now, is your skin feeling better?

@ST-111 Жыл бұрын

I think the pandemic showed us exactly how any legitimate dissent is dealt with by lotta people

@canesugar911 Жыл бұрын

Conspiracy theories are not legitimate dissent.

@ST-111 Жыл бұрын

@@canesugar911 i bet youre one of those who think natural immunity isn't real

@canesugar911 Жыл бұрын

@@ST-111 i bet you are one of those people who thinks drinking bleach and taking horse medicine will cure you of a specific viral respiratory infection.

@corriewightwick4633 Жыл бұрын

I’ve stopped using tretinoin. I’ve been using it for about 10yrs and my face has lost so much elasticity and fullness compared to my sister who is 11months older and has never used it. My sister is 53 and I’m 52. Also my 80yr old mother has never used tretinoin and still has more volume than me…I used 0.5% tretinoin and in 10yrs my skin never got used to it and was always aggravated, but I persevered. Since I started using Ivan’s cream in November I’m starting to see improvement in hydration and my skin looks and feels plumper. I also have sebaceous hyperplasia and used tretinoin for that, but since I’ve stopped using it my hyperplasia has improved sooooo much. I now only cleanse, apply Niod CAIL serum and then Ivans cream at night and in the morning I cleanse, apply Vit C serum, moisturise then factor 50 sunscreen and my skin is getting so much better. I just wish Ivan cream was a bit cheaper.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Good to hear you’ve developed a routine that works for you. I agree the Adipeau cream is expensive. You could try cycling it so using it for a run of a few months then taking a break - or just using it a few nights a week.

@chris5897 Жыл бұрын

Your using Ivan's cream instead of tretinoin? I think I'm starting to see why he heavily advocates against tret. Tret is dirt cheap... By giving it up he can sell more products

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

@@chris5897 They’re not comparable or competitive products. They have entirely different mechanisms.

@shirleyfraser3371 Жыл бұрын

It's very easy to cherry-pick data points in any scientific study in support of a particular point t of view. Pharm does it all the time. And even that bastion of impeccable scientific inquiry, The Lancet, was discovered to have misrepresented Covid data. As well, data is often skewed, and biased. Pursuing the truth is not for those satisfied with a paper's abstract. The meat of the study is in the details. I appreciate Ivan's tenacity in tearing apart the table that clearly raised the question regarding Tret's skin thinning effects. Don't shoot the messenger. Instead, put forth the effort to dissect the study's guts and formulate your own opinion. I believe Ivan performed a service and demonstrated a hallmark of scientific inquiry.

@helenalovelock1030 Жыл бұрын

There is another guy Biogerontology Dermatologist in the UK it might be worth interviewing he says the same or similar about Tret. He has an anti aging skin care line too and has done work with University’s I think about skin care and anti-aging. His name is John Hamilton from Natural Elements. He has an anti aging skin care line that uses oils and extracts etc. He believes Tretinoin does more harm than good too and thins the skin. 😬😬😬. I don’t know his credentials though

@kateaye3506 Жыл бұрын

I'd love some research on how eating our vit A affects our skin. I feel safer eating liver than I do retinol.

@idahardy4052 Жыл бұрын

This is what science is all about. It’s not about cult of personality - who do I like better - but rather let’s look at the research, the data, and debate it. Human studies are never perfect because there are so many variables. When we look at the benefits and risks of supplements, creams, and foods, we have to understand that not everyone is going to respond in the same way. If you’re deficient in something, you’re going to respond differently to supplementation than if you have plenty of it. Still, you’ll have non- responders and hyperresponders. So, for thee tretinoin debate, we have to look at the subjects themselves, and all of the possible variables they’re coming in with. Does anyone of them have diabetes? Is anyone over 40? What is the color of the skin? What sort of diet do they eat normally? Do they exercise? Have they stopped exercising? What else has changed? Have they started or stopped taking B vitamins? Have they had any major stressors in their life recently? I think we have to be able to try something and then decide whether it’s working for us or not. Think of the product “aquaphor” - most dermatologists seem to love it and recommend it to patients. But in reality it actually slows healing after a skin cancer removal - some people are sensitive to lanolin and plain old petroleum jelly works much better for them. I’m an exercise physiologist, not a dermatologist, so I do know how to read the research. I totally respect what you are doing here on your channel and I absolutely love it.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

Really appreciate that - thank you ❤️

@orangefox5121 10 ай бұрын

Can we just get the direct links to an article itself, so there is no need to listen to one party cutting the phrase here and the other - there. Or at least the title of the article. Otherwise it is not HONEST channell…

@thehonestchannel 10 ай бұрын

Hi. There are links to the studies in the description and we also recorded this follow-up to go through the study data in detail while showing it on screen kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oMeooster8_TgWg.htmlsi=PlhdLiQfQKSLTclM

@orangefox5121 10 ай бұрын

@@thehonestchannel where are the links? There are none except brief slides in the video, which is not helpful. Why can’t you just list the name of the articles like you list your products? Why is it so secretive?

@orangefox5121 10 ай бұрын

@@thehonestchannel just to add. I was able to find the studies listed, read them myself ( I am an M.D., although not a dermatologist, but that does not matter as the general education includes the ability to analyze studies) and after actually reading what was written almost 30 years ago I can conclude that what Ivan Galanin is telling is absolutely incorrect. There are no proff of “ dermal thinning” after long term usage of the tretinoin cream, there are studies showing changes in the different levels of thickness and organizational structure ( which is the most important here and what Ivan is totally missing out) of the photodamaged skin( all studies are done with a damaged skin as a starting point). So the initial thickening of epidermal part is mostly due to it’s fast turnover and reorganization from the damaged baseline and it settles to a normal patter long term, which is a good sign, not bad. There is also a reorganization in the pattern of the deeper layers of the skin, which are also damaged baseline, but become absolutely normal and more compacted as a result, long term. In no way is it “ thinning” of the skin - one can not just look at the arithmetic numbers not taking into consideration the morphology behind it which is way more important than the number!!! Obviously, tretinoin treatment is not universally beneficial as some people never can adjust, plus the studies use 0.05% emollient creams as their highest concentration whereas nowadays a lot of products are 0.1 % gels which are much stronger, and that has to be weighed while treating yourself. But the whole premise of saying “ tret is thinning your skin” is incorrect, it is the same way as someone would say “ exercise is thinning your arms” when the building muscle is replacing the fluffy fat, so by just arithmetic measurements that might be correct , but it is not correct in it’s benefit entirety, as the content of the thinner layer replacing the thick fluffy layer is a healthy tissue, not the disorganized photo-damaged one.

@hellomd5046 Жыл бұрын

I haven’t read through all the comments yet but I wish someone would talk about how tretinoin can dry up PERMANENTLY the oil glands in your eye, resulting in severe dry eye. It can cause hair loss and Crohn’s disease

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

I’ve mentioned in previous videos that it’s been linked with dry eye syndrome. It’s potent stuff!

@hellomd5046 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel sorry I tried to look everywhere. It made my eyes run like crazy in a short space of time. I loved the look of my skin but I had to give it up. Severe dry eye can end in ulcers. I use bakuchiol now and glycolic

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

Do you have great results with baku and glycolic ?

@hellomd5046 Жыл бұрын

@@jajarounette95 yes, I do. I had only been using the Retin A for a couple of months, and my skin was starting to look very glowy. But it did change the colour of my face to a darker colour. But then my eyes started streaming. I starting reading up and found it to be a serious problem, because the running is only the start, then comes the pain, and then potentially cataracts and even ulcers. I can’t risk it because I have had uveitis in the back of my eye in the past. So I had to stop. I use a strong glycolic wash and a bakuchiol oil and I have been getting comments on how good my skin is looking. And no runny eyes

@hellomd5046 Жыл бұрын

@@jajarounette95 and also, I was watching beauty bloggers who were using it and some peoples hairlines were thinning and receding. Plus it was weird how many of them had Crohn’s. It’s clear to me that Retin A is absorbed systemically. I had seen protocols too where if you are very keen to use Retin A you use it fairly intensely for a month a year and that’s it

@pammitchell4592 Жыл бұрын

I''ve had very positive results from using tretinoin for over 20 years. Also, I have always been told that it increases dermal thickness: "In large-scale, double-blind, placebo-controlled, 6-month trials, 0.05% tretinoin emollient cream (Renova, Retinova) reduced fine wrinkles and skin roughness, and it produced histologic changes such as epidermal thickening, increased granular layer thickness, stratum corneum compaction, and decreased melanin content" (Science Direct).

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

You’re not alone in having good long-term results which we do discuss in this video. There is a clear contingent of users for whom tret works well long term but that is not true of all users. This discussion is an exploration of the limited long-term data.

@hellomd5046 Жыл бұрын

There is a common association between isotretinoin and the development of left-sided ulcerative colitis, rather than Crohn's disease.0 Tretinoin is a form of vitamin A and should not be used if you have Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, inflammation of the intestines ……. When I was researching Retin A I watched many KZfaq videos on the subject and trialed by the beauty bloggers. I was shocked at how many of them had Crohn’s disease and wondered if it was a coincidence. Turns out that it’s a well known side effect when taking the oral version. Coincidence????

@orangefox5121 10 ай бұрын

Except ISOtretinoin is an ORAL medication for severe acne and it does indeed have A LOT of side effects. It has nothing to do with antiaging properties of TOPICAL tretinoin.

@lisagagain-5926 8 ай бұрын

Anything you put on your skin is absorbed systematically. That is how hormone & pain medications in patches, and nitroglycerin for cardiac issues are administered very effectively.

@hellomd5046 8 ай бұрын

@@lisagagain-5926 yes. That’s the thing. People think that only the oral meds have this effect - but the cream can have this effect too - for SOME people. I myself tried Retin A for about 2 months, and my skin was looking fantastic I have to say, but then my eyes started streaming whenever I would go outside and there was a touch of wind. It reminded me that my eyes had started running about 10 years before when I had casually tried some Tretinoin that I got in Thailand. So I did some research. I found people who had life changing eye problems because the Retin A can dry up the sebum glands in your eyes. And you can’t fix this once it happens. It is permanent. Quite a lot of Retin a users also seemed to have stomach issues. Of the KZfaqrs promoting Tretinoin there are quite a few with Crohn’s. Also quite a few with receding hairlines. I do think that if one wants to use Tretinoin it is better to blast it and use it intensely for a month once a year. I loved how my skin looked so I’m not knocking it just concerned

@orangefox5121 8 ай бұрын

@@lisagagain-5926 isotretinoin is NOT the topical tretinoin. I hope you did not skip the basic organic chemistry to know that ISO is there for a reason… absorption of topical tretinoin is NOT equivalent of oral intake of DIFFERENT chemical compound. Topical absorption is absolutely irrelevant here, even if one considers we are talking about the same compound ( which we are not) as the dosage is absolutely different as well. You know the difference about therapeutic dosing, toxic dosing, drug clearance and half life, or not? Looks like NOT as if you do, you would not extrapolate the medications DESIGNED to be absorbed into general circulation to produce therapeutic effect with the medication not designed for that at all. So, briefly - side effects of oral isotretinoin have NOTHING to do with topical absorption of absolutely different chemical compound, in different dosing and with different mode of metabolism so no, you can not extrapolate one on the other. Period.

@JaxDianne Жыл бұрын

It would have been better to have a true debate. I’d respect that more.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

The first video was a debate - this is a follow-up to show the data.

@sarah_renee Жыл бұрын

I would love to see a Dr on here who is pro long term use to get a more balanced discussion.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

@@sarah_renee Hi. Dr Natalia Spiering is positive about long-term use and gave some really sensible advice around strength and frequency here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gLiAg9qKys2WdXk.html

@JaxDianne Жыл бұрын

@@sarah_renee exactly what I meant….I mean why not even have one of the people who disagreed with them on and have a back/forth discussion.

@JaxDianne Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel I watched the first video when it came out. It did not come across as a debate. She agreed with him and said people should take breaks from it which is not what 99% of dermatologists tell us.

@doctormelybellie Жыл бұрын

Any licensed doctor in any specialty can get a certificate in aesthetic medicine. A dermatologist who specializes in skin health has far greater knowledge than an emergency med doc with a certificate in aesthetics.

@aeducator1 Жыл бұрын

Focusing on the formal qualifications of the messenger rather than the substance of the message leads to the shallowest of discussions. Not helpful at all.

@michele0324 Жыл бұрын

It's possible that a doctor who specialized in surgery + emergency medicine, is accredited in aesthetics and has been practicing aesthetics for 10+ years is as knowledgeable as a dermatologist when it comes to tretinoin use. I don't think one can say either way unless each doctor's education, training, # of years practicing and clinical area of expertise is known. IMHO.

@dianaelias2752 Жыл бұрын

wow, I unfollowed the other "doctor" about 5 years ago due to reasons obvious to many people, but no need to point them out here, so I was not aware of the controversy the last video caused. Because I was surprised by some of the information in the first video, I went and double-checked the references he mentioned, and therefore decided to decrease my retin-a usage to only 3 months a year and the rest of the year retinol, and I'm so happy so far with retinol! I'm not surprised she did not bother to cross-check anything at all before going into a fit.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

It definitely caused quite a stir! Pleased to hear your new regime is working well.

@skinme2340 Жыл бұрын

It’s funny that you are open to jump on Dr. Ivan Galanin treatment for fat restoration which by the way has very limited clinical study evidence but here we are still discussing and criticizing years of strong evidence on tretinoin!

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

By 'jumping on' you mean I tried his cream and gave an impartial review which discussed the pros and cons in the same way we're doing with tretinoin.

@skinme2340 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel I would never try something like that on my face with no unbiased clinical evidence, I was shocked that the same doctor comes again on your channel to tell us that years of research on tretinoin are not super convincing on its efficacy. It’s your skin and your channel and you can endorse anything you like, but from a viewer standpoint is contradictory.

@annalinstrum8558 Жыл бұрын

Did you even watch the video? Which ‘strong evidence’ are you referring to exactly?

@jajarounette95 Жыл бұрын

@@skinme2340 which strong evidence please :)

@skinme2340 Жыл бұрын

@@annalinstrum8558 I watched all the videos, the same doctor was pushing his cream a few months back with little evidence on its efficacy but here questioning retinoids - there are tons and tons of publications on retinoic acid, it’s not my job to direct you on pubmed and show you the strong evidence I am talking about it. Go on pubmed and search for retinoic acid.

@helenalovelock1030 Жыл бұрын

Who actually funded the majority of clinical research for Tretinoin? Follow the money

@LabMuffinBeautyScience 8 ай бұрын

He's still misrepresenting the studies. The Bhawan and Olsen studies clearly say elastosis, Bhawan is a dermatopathologist. The word "elastosis" is on screen at 20:35. He also has a 1998 paper restating the findings from those studies ("In 4-year biopsies, the area of dermal elastosis was decreased by 34%, consistent with a trend noted at earlier time points"). Procollagen also isn't the same as collagen, you can achieve a steady state of a precursor while increasing the product. Working at a pharma company is not "scientific training" or equivalent to a science degree, no matter how much he wants to make it seem that way, and this video confirms it. I didn't have any strong feelings on Adipeau before this video but it's made me extremely dubious about it, so thanks for that.

@thehonestchannel 8 ай бұрын

Thanks for sharing your observations. I have to say that the key piece of evidence for dermal thinning longer-term which Ivan was right to flag is the Bhawan table showing papillary dermal thickness reduced by 65% from baseline over a 4-year period. Even more bizarre is that this has been presented by others as evidence of dermal thickening, purely because 65% represented a 12% increase from the original huge reduction in papillary dermal thickness of 77% in the first 12 months of tretinoin use. Epidermal thickness was found to have reduced by 11% from baseline over a 4-year period.

@emily-hp7yc Жыл бұрын

everyone who is defending these people, specifically Ivan, someone might I add skirted around what his credentials are, trying to imply in all ways that he is is a scientist without saying it because fact is he is NOT a scientist nor anything close to a scientist. I would really love to know what degree he studied and what his true credentials are since he seems to avoid telling us but anyway. They acts as though Dr Drey shamed them or something. No... she just read through the scientific papers that were referenced in order to try and prove their points during the first interview on here and she calmly, neutrally without any ego or over the top disagreement just stated what she read in those said papers. She is a PRACTICING board certified Doctor of Dermatology. That is 8+ years of medical school and training plus the 15+ more she has acquired working in a Dermatology practice. She never denied that tret does have side effects that may be negative to some individuals, all she did was read the studies and state the facts of from those studies. You're all brainwashed and stupid if you believe this person knows more than her and that his knowledge of human biology is more advanced.

@misssaavy 8 ай бұрын

This doctor is selling a product.

@eleannakritikaki4811 2 ай бұрын

Oh my god. This guy is so unethical. He has his website where he sells his run of the mill moisturiser for a super high price and managed to get this KZfaqr off of tretinoin which she was doing pretty great on (perhaps better on 0.025). Instead, she bought the cheap skepticism this guy was selling. I am actually pretty sad. This dude is also COMPLETELY incoherent. So is he saying that there is no collagen increase after tret? Or that there is and it's only short term? Is he saying that tretinoin is damaging the skin? What is his overall message?

@Neonrain08 Жыл бұрын

I'm sorry but Dr Qian Xu says some really strange things, use tret for a few weeks then completely stop? she doesn't seem to grasp that irritation from tretinoin isn't permanent and your skin will eventually build a tolerance which takes time yes but its not forever for most people. Utterly bizarre she must have been the cheapest person to get on because i have no idea why you insist on inviting her back on to talk nonsense.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

I don’t pay her, I respect her. Not everyone adjusts to tretinoin. This is a treatment protocol she has developed and gets long-term results with for her clients. She is entitled to her opinion which is based on clinical experience and data.

@hellonomasonto Жыл бұрын

Based on your reply, you are definitely NOT a medical doctor! I've never in 44 years had a doctor say 'if this topical cream gives you rash or any irritation, continue using it, your skin will build tolerance to it'! What?! I would probably report that doctor to the health practitioners' board, because he or she would totally be guessing that! What if those irritations don't go away and leave the skin with hyperpigmentation or other worse conditions? So, absolutely no doctor should ever advise their patients to continue using facial treatments that irritate their skin! No doctor at all.

@jully1744 Жыл бұрын

Lovely interview. Also, time will tell and show the truth. Hate to say this, but the KZfaq dermatologist that was attacking… her appearance is very gaunt and skin glossy not in a healthy way, so much fat loss on the face for such a young age. So, sorry, not a look I want to go for. I think that speaks itself. I’m 40, and don’t use tretinoin. Looking just fine!

@deborah3912 Жыл бұрын

Please see Dr. Dray's response video, get the facts...and don't buy this. It's disappointing that you continue to push this misleading information.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

I would like to know which part you think is misleading?

@deborah3912 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel Like I commented, please watch Dr. Dray's response video.

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

@@deborah3912 I watched it and this is the response to the criticism with detailed explanation of the data used to support the initial statements. All entirely evidenced.

@deborah3912 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel good bye

@Neonrain08 Жыл бұрын

1 study from almost 30 years ago isn't detailed data. You just do thid for click bate since the other video got views

@johndoe9362 Жыл бұрын

What about the fat melting?

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

We discuss facial fat in the final section. I've put timestamps on to help guide viewers to points of interest.

@johndoe9362 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel Thanks. I actually just watched that part where you brought up the facial fat. Thanks!

@johndoe9362 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel Subscribed ✔

@thehonestchannel Жыл бұрын

@@johndoe9362 I appreciate it!

@johndoe9362 Жыл бұрын

@@thehonestchannel Love the nitty-gritty debates. Very few have challenged the effects of tretinoin and red light. You're a pioneer in investigating anti-aging products/drugs. Keep it coming!