Was always so glad that Colin Baker got to have that speech in the last EP of that series. He deserved that moment and sometimes I wonder if he felt the meta aspects of it in relation to his tenure in the role.

Honestly Colin's speach is one of the best moments in doctor who for me. The first proper exposure of how the Time Lords can be arrogant and corrupted. It's amazing how well aged and relevant the speach really is considering all the shitty things the time lords did the time war and in future episodes like 'end of time' and 'hell bent'.

I hope for a second female doctor someday

On Chibnall's complaints toward Terror of the Vervoids, it's worth noting that after being announced as showrunner he did an interview in which he denounced that complaint and stated that his era would have exactly the thing he complained about ("lots of silly monsters and running down corridors"). So, with that in mind, I don't think it's at all a surprise that you drew that comparison. For better or worse, it sounds like he succeeded in that.

I love Trial as a deep dive into the 6th Doctor and sets him on the path for growth. It's why I feel that the biggest issue with Colin's run is a lack of finality, I imagine he'd be looked back on more fondly had he got at least one more season. Alongside it are some elements I enjoy such as development for Peri, it has a great guest and IMO the best score from Dominic Glynn.

Kind of a statement on the difference for me. I don't recall any good lines from Flux but, after almost 40 years, Colin Baker's 'corruption' rant is still a strong contender for the best Doctor Who moments ever.

23:43 That's brilliant. That's so hilarious how Terror of the Vervoids reminded you of Chibnall! TBH I love the Terror of the Vervoids to bits and do not see the similarities at all, but hey! It's still great that you felt that. It's very vindicating and telling of Chibnall's shortcomings, sad though they are. Also I am glad that you liked the Trial better, I obviously like it better too! Thanks for this fun and unexpected analysis!

I haven't watched Trial yet despite having the collection on Blu-ray. One thing I will say, though, is that at least Jodie Whittaker got a trilogy of specials including a proper regen story after Flux unlike Colin Baker who unfortunately was immediately replaced by Sylvester McCoy in a whig after ToaTL.

I'd really love a video about Eric Saward once you've covered all of the stories that he wrote or script edited for, because he's a very polarising figure. At his best he created some dark but intriguing and morally complex work, but at his worst he turned the doctor into useless jerk in a world where everyone was awful and there were never any happy endings. But of course, that's just the extremes and it's not a unanimous opinion. Some hate all his work and others love all of it. There was an online backlash to him, and then a backlash to that backlash. Opinion to this day is mixed. He was very interesting!

The thing I will always appreciate with Trial of a Timelord is the element of art imitating real life, as the entire show was on trial and at threat of being cancelled.

The trials of Tom and Colin Baker were such bs on the part of the Time Lords. He’s not allowed to be meddling, yet they regularly sent The Doctor to locations he hadn’t meant to be traveling to during classic Who. Basically, he’s only allowed to meddle when it’s at their bidding.

Thank you for the video, Vera! When making criticism in good faith, as an outsider, it is easier to spot flaws and why some aspects of the media being analyzed do not work. As you mentioned, ironically, criticisms made by young Chris Chibnall over the classic Doctor Who TV series could also be applied to his recent work as a writer on the current series. It is also worthy of mentioning how the creation and production of that kind of media is a collective and human work, and if there is any conflict behind the scenes, the same media will probably suffer because of that. Having a casual knowledge about the classic Doctor Who TV series, the concept of the Valeyard, an evil incarnation of the Doctor, is very interesting to me. The problem is how to differentiate the character from the Master/Missy who already fits the function of a dark and unhinged counterpart to the Doctor. And that without mentioning how the current TV series and expanded media created similar versions of the archetype, such as the Time Lord Victorious and Mr. Clever/Cyber-Planner.

Flux is probably going to have the Daleks’s master plan treatment of having Big finish stories put in time skips to wrap up plot points.

I feel like season 18 struck the right balance between serialised stories and individual stories compared to Trial of a Time Lord and Flux. We get a great mini arc with the E-space trilogy, and then Logopolis brings back the importance of the CVEs that started the trilogy off. Combine that with a consistent focus on themes of decay and entropy and you get my favourite attempt at connecting stories in Classic Who

Trial of a timelord is next on my doctor who watch list so I’m looking forward to coming back to this video once I’ve seen it!

Chibnal's staff after seeing him write Flux: "You have become the very thing you swore to destroy!"

I agree. Trial of the timelord always.

There's a good amount of stuff where I agree with you in this video. But one thing I have to disagree with is your thoughts on Terror of the Vervoids. I love this story and actually think it's my favourite 6th Doctor era story (not including Big Finish bc I just haven't listened to enough). I can only cover the points you made in this video as I haven't yet watched your Break Room review. The point on it feeling overcrowded I feel is by design. Just like with Unicorn and the Wasp, it's a murder mystery. There's meant to be a lot of suspects. Now yes, they might have been able to cut it down by a character or two but I feel like there's meant to be a lot of characters in this type of story. But the biggest disagreement I have is your view of them making the Doctor out to be a genocidal murderer at the end of the story. I love that this is fixated on bc yeah, the Doctor is kinda a morally corrupt character a lot of the time. Even Davros calls him out on his BS in Journey's End. Will never carry a gun but will let other people do his dirty work. And the amount of times he's killed villains, it just makes him as bad as them. He literally destroys Skaro in Remembrance of the Daleks. And while the Daleks are killers, how does it make the Doctor any better than them if he wipes them all out and destroys their planet? So in that case, the Valeyard was right. The Doctor has committed Genocide. Not just in the case of the Vervoids but also in many other cases before and after this. And I love that they dip into this moral question in this story. Something I wish they did more in the show. The closest we got was in The Name of the Doctor when the Great Intelligence has a similar gripe against the Doctor. And as I mentioned above with Davros. But the Doctor is a really messed up character with his morals when you really think about it. 🤷‍♂️

I absolutely love Trial of a Timelord. I got it on a 3 VHS set for Christmas, way back. Terror of the Vervoids was a bit scatterbrained, but i found Flux to be almost as unwatchable as the damn zombie monk invasion that took much of a season, previously. It was the only time, in my life i found myself begrudgingly sitting through a Who episode(s).

I'd say trial of a time lord. Mainly because... trial of a timelord was at least coherent. Not great but qt least things had a cause and effect flow unlike flux.

I liked both series, but Trial is my favorite of the two as well. Then again, I've had almost 30 years of owning and watching/rewatching for Trial, and only have seen Flux once. If I'd had that time with Flux, I might prefer it. But as madcap as the ending is for Trial, I love it. I hadn't made the connection between Chibs's past critique being about Vervoids, and Vervoids feeling most like Flux, but that's amusing to me on some level. I wonder how much of his teenaged critique was his genuine feelings, or his need to show that he was a "true" fan and "above such silliness" as things were considered back then. Loved the comparison of the two from a structural/storytelling perspective. Thank you, Vera!

I know I sound like a fanboy, but I enjoy both of those series. Funnily enough, it's only been the last decade or so that I've come to appreciate Colin Baker in the role, but even as a kid, I loved how they set the series up. I agree, Colin's speech in that episode is so brilliant and moving. I also like Flux, or at least I appreciate what they were going for. I really wish we could have seen Jodie with better writing, but her performance was always wonderful. But if I had to pick one, I would pick Trial. Even if it introduced Mel, who makes me want to punch walls. And, to be fair, Jodie's Doctor killed a bunch of spiders. As an arachnophobiac, I'm here for that.

I've learnt you have a tough time with "Sixy", so, I'm surprised at your verdict. The Sixth Doctor is my doctor from childhood, so, of course, I agree with your conclusion!

With bi generation I think they should make 14 The Valeyard. When 10 lost Donna the first time he eventually became The Timelord Victorious. What happens when he loses her whole family and Mel when they all eventually die? Plus it gives the bi generation more of a purpose besides giving The Doctor a happy ending while we go off and follow 15.

I would highly recommend watching Terror of the Vervoids Special Edition if you have the collection set. It's much clearer without the Valeyard possibly messing with the matrix and the fact the Trial episodes ignore Peri's fate. It makes for am imperfect but honestly much more enjoyable murder mystery in Space story with a warmer Six and Mel being surprisingly enjoyable. I wish there were individual edits for War of the Sontarans and Village of the Angels in this fashion

RIP Michael Jayston (The Valeyard). I just found out that he'd passed away today.

Watching this video made me realise I'd forgotten about the Grand Serpent! A great villian played by a great actor introduced to do nothing! I would agree Trial is slightly better, but mostly because Flux suffered from inconsistent villain motivation. Valeyard just wanted life! Teteun "we created the Flux to destroy the universe because of you. Also come with us to the new universe" Village Of The Angels: "we're chasing this rogue angel, but we'll swap for The Doctor who's standing right there and we can take anytime!"

Flux isn't even close to the worst story Doctor Who has ever told (Dimensions in Time, Twin Dilemma, ect), but it's the story that most thoroughly failed to accomplish it's goals.

i don’t know if it’s true or not, but i heard another BIG problem was that seward was angry that he wasn’t consulted at all when JNT hired colin. and i’ve also heard that seward did NOT even want colin baker as the doctor and that’s why a lot of colin’s scrips were so awful. idk?

Dang, I've been thinking about doing a video with this premise in the future, but you beat me to it. Just as well, an idea for my version would have me compare the tone of the stories, which would inevitably turn into me babbling on about the differences between the media of the 1980s and the 2020s which would then turn into me complaining about how dreary 21st century media is (or at least looks). I would also conclude that Trial Of A Time Lord is better, but I'm biased towards anything with Anthony Ainley (not that Flux had that choice 💔💔).

In every other fiction, we expect that the villain is a liar. I will never understand how Doctor Who accepts exposition of the hero from the villain. Whether it’s The Valeyard or The Timeless Child, there’s only confirmation by villains.

hard to comment which was better, trial of a time lord had production troubles from scripts being cancelled and new ones being written last minute, legendary script writer Robert Holmes dying leaving the final story uncompleted, script editor Eric Saward resigning and withdrawing permission for his version of the final episode to be made, on the plus side Colin was improving as the doctor in my opinion, too bad his time was cut short but Flux wasn't too bad

I think it's interesting to discuss how various media attempt to utilized serialized narratives within their overarching plots. I think you're right, Vera, that Dr. Who has had problems in the past with trying to dip into the serialized stories for a single series. I do not think it's necessarily a bad approach to take but failure to get the landing right (and making sure the individual stories within are both fun and somehow relate to the serial either directly or indirectly) is important. As I was listening to you talk about this, I tried to think about serialized stories in other media formats that did it better and one example that came to mind was in video games. The Phoenix Wright games (it's most notable once you get past the first couple of them) are each their own serialized narrative. For example, the third game in the series, Trials and Tribulations, has individual cases that can stand on their own narratively but also have individual pieces that contribute to the greater narrative. Some of those pieces are less significant than others and not all cases are good, but when you get to end you start to see how it all was meant to slot into place it makes sense why everything was included. Due to differences in format this does not translate to television easily (the final chapters of Phoenix Wright games can balloon out in playtime compared to earlier chapters and that, comparatively, would either mean a longer finale for TV or less explained) but I still thought it was an interesting comparison.

trail of the timelord was better written and had a more coherent plot line. for all the faukt of the colin baker era it was overall very good. the flux was just a poorly plotted and confusing mess that seemed cobbled together. it had some decent episodes but overall it was a big mess.

I'm gonna have to disagree with your conclusion. I would say Trial's problem has its premise intrusive in a way that makes me apathetic to even watch. I at least enjoy half of Flux consistently enough to feel excited by the idea of War of the Sontarans, Village of the Angels etc. It's not even a tone thing. I'm excited by The Curse of Fenric, Dalek, Midnight, Waters of Mars, Caves of Androzani etc. But even Mindwarp makes me apathetic. I wouldn't rank either highly, but although I agree about Colin's performances and Sixie's character throughout, especially that scene, I've gotta admit, I could just watch it on KZfaq, which feels like a really cynical view to have but when the absolute highlight feels just as good out of context than within, and I have to trudge through a lot of crap to get to it, it doesn't seem worth it. I'm yet to revisit Flux this year (I'm kinda trying to do a best bits from each season marathon this year) but I concluded that "Season 23 has a nugget of gold in the sense that it's shaven into flakes that fall into barrels of shit" the good stuff simply doesn't appeal to me. But I do see where you're coming from. Both deserved better final seasons.

So what you're saying is, it could have been slightly better written? All jokes aside i do think the format can work they just need to break whatever production cruse they suffer from. Maybe RTD2 could do it for Ncuti's final series?

25:09 Have you watched Diamabda Hagan's guide to classic Doctor Who? Apparently The Doctor kills very often in the classic era, going all the way back to the Troughton years.

Slightly off topic here, but what's your favorite Sonic Screwdriver Design Vera? By the way, I love your videos! Keep up the great work!

I think it could've been alot better, it could've been slightly better written. Especially the last story.

Serialised storytelling was a bit more common in UK television than US television, at least that I've seen of US television, in the 50s through 90s (and obviously soap has always been heavily serialised), but it definitely wasn't as... Ubiquitous... As it often feels in modern times. For some examples for sci-fi that spring immediately to mind of that outside of Who's series of serials would be Sapphire and Steel (Another 'series of serials' but at 6 stories across 4 seasons there are some seasons that were just a single serial), The Quatermass Experiment (which did just tell one story for each of it's seasons, although I'm unsure how much of that survives in the archives. I know there's a film adaptation of one of the serials, however) and maybe Blake's 7 (But that was more 'episodic with an arc' than truly serialised for the most part (JMS I believe has cited it as an influence for the structure of Babylon 5, which is I think most visible during S1 of B7 which has more of the 'every few episodes something happens that fundamentally changes the status quo' that B5 is known for - We don't even meet the final member of S1's main cast until I think episode 4), but obviously pretty much every television adaptation of a novel outside of crime drama serializes the book to a season of television, whatever the target audience. The other flirtations Doctor Who did with serializing across stories is that some of the early Hartnell stories _end_ on a cliffhanger bridging two serials together, The Master trilogy (the final two Tom Baker stories and the first Peter Davison story), and the E-Space trilogy (Which starts with the TARDIS getting sucked into E-Space depicts a couple of adventures within E-Space, and ends with the Doctor finding a way out of the small alternate dimension)

It would be interesting to see if your opinions have changed on the Specials after Flux

Hold on. I've never watched Trial of a Timelord but ... the Valeyard wants to live of the Doctor's potential regenerations? Of the Doctor's potential life? Like the Weeping Angels? Like the theory (because of a line drop by the Lord President during "The End of Time") that the Weeping Angels orginated from the Timelords in some way? Interesting how concepts serve as an inspiration.

Both the Sixth's and Thirteenth's tenures were in flux.

There were only ever going to be six episodes in Flux. Eight included the two specials, before the Centenary was greenlit. The supposed ten episode series was pre-Covid, imagined - briefly - as a regular series of the show. This is very important context to get right. It is as long as intended. If it's crowded, that's a writing flaw, not a production flaw. I don't think it's crowded at all. There is well enough time here to resolve everything, but presumably due to way more last-minute on-the-day or in-the-edit rewrites (caused by Covid restrictions), a lot was left hanging or misprioritised. That was inevitable with Covid, so they should have conceited a simpler serialised series in preparation.

I'd say Flux as overall I have a lot more fun with it but I do have a bit of a soft spot for Trial. And they were both made under almost impossible circumstances so it's a miracle these seasons were made at all so I'll always be more kind to them and it is amazing that the production teams for Trial of a Time Lord and Flux respectively really pulled together to make Doctor Who under their respective circumstances. Though I will say 13 does get the edge also as she got a regeneration story (albeit not part of Flux itself) whereas poor Sixie didn't due to Colin Baker being unfairly fired, he deserved SO much better and it's disgusting the way the BBC treated him and Doctor Who as a whole in the mid-late 80s, thankfully these days the BBC rightly see Doctor Who as the crown jewel of British Television that it is.

Honestly, I really liked both of them. I dont get what the fandom has against them.

Having read Eric Saward's p14 script when it released on internet archive a few years back, honestly think the Broadcast/Pip & Jane Bakers' version of p14 works better S23/Trial Of A Timelord was a stay of execution with possiblity of a metaphorical pardon, following the hiatus that came after S22, so having an ending that could be a final end over one where you can have new adventures/series or end knowing the story never truly ends (ala s26/the actual end of classic who's ending) doesn't seem the best move to conclude a last chance effort, with an uncertain future. Though having said that, was still an amazing read & would be an interesting Big Finish lost story adaptation of Trial Of A Timelord part 13 & 14. Maybe with one of the proposed titles like Time Inc or The Fantasy Factory (like we've been getting with Revenge Of The Cybermen; Genesis Of The Daleks &; Ark In Space becoming Return Of The Cybermen; Daleks! Genesis Of Terror &; The Ark (BF: LS)) or something

I think Trial of a Timelord is definitely better. I remember more of Trial. Flux, even though I watched it more recently, I barely remember at all. So, was Chibnall trying to make the story smarter by making it more tedious? JNT'S era's were much more accessible to me.

Wow the bizarre coincidence with thought/story- Wibble wobbly timey wimey indeeb!

I passed on Flux. I was taking a breaking from New Who cos I was so unhappy with the Jodie Whittaker era and The Timeless Children really pissed me off. I've got The Trial of a Time Lord on DVD. My favourite story from that season was "Mindwarp". The final story was poorly written and seemed rushed. The revelation of The Valeyard being a future dark Doctor didn't make sense.

This premise was done better during season 16. I have no idea no one considers The Key to Time with Tom Baker to not be a season long story.

I’m confused about the episode cuts because the split is clearly that the 10 episode season was 6 Flux and 4 specials, with Power of the Doctor being 2 parts

While probably not as serialized as trial or flux classic Doctor who has done it b4 w things like the entirety of Tom bakers first season is completely serialized as literally each 4 episode story it then linked to the next giving 4, Sarah-Jane, & Harry one continuous long outing in space & time b4 they’re reuinited w the Tardis just in time to stop a Zygon invasion back on earth which started baker’s second season. Then there’s the third doctors entire second season which had an entire season long the master arc where he’s introduced then stuck on earth then he gets the Tardis muguffin back but then continues to run into the doctor concluding in that seasons last serial tho im unclear on if they wanted to do more w it but the actor who played the master died & they left it as is

The Trial of a Time Lord was produced with a figurative noose around John Nathan-Turner's (incidentally, it's not Jonathan Nathan-Turner. His original name was Jonathan Turner, but he very much preferred John Nathan-Turner). The fact that he took the bold decision to put the Doctor on trial inspired by this Damoclean moment was profoundly risky, but it was a risk that paid off, granting the show a stay of execution, albeit briefly. Unfortunately, it also led to the sacking of Colin Baker, which was profoundly upsetting for him. While it's true that Eric Saward (pron. say-wud) didn't think much of Baker's casting, it was oddly petulant that he went to the press to criticise and complain about JNT. With Flux, I don't agree that it's overstuffed at all. I didn't at the time and I don't now. Yes, there's a lot going on but that's not the same thing. As others have said, the intention behind Flux was always a six episode structure, shooting continuously for a year. Both Eve of the Daleks and The Power of the Doctor were already accounted for (hence the announced 8 episodes). While it's true that both Ed Hime and Vinay Patel were commissioned to write for series 13, this was in 2019 before the pandemic. Something happened the following year which necessitated a change of plan. In fact, serious discussions were had about whether to abandon the show at that point, write a series of self-contained but minimally-cast stories set in single rooms or to pull out all the stops and write a full on epic with all the whistles and bells that entails. The fact that they didn't go for the easy option shows a chutzpah lesser writers would have balked at. Personally, I like both stories and, while I have a fondness for The Trial of a Time Lord, I think Flux is the better of the two, if just for its sheer ambition. It's not perfect but nothing ever is, but I seriously believe it's great story told in an almost literary style (hence Chapters) with all the intricacies that entails. Not pertinent but someone may point it out: Legend of the Sea Devils was a late commission at not originally included in the Series 13 planning document or whatever it was.

The bigger issue with trial of a timelord was it wasn’t supposed to happen at all because after season 22 which was Colin baker’s first season the original plan for the show in general was to cancel it cause by that time the show was like a bad taste in the bbc executive’s mouth so after word got around that the show would be cancelled at the end of the season a fan campaign began to convince the bbc not to cancel the show that also included a bad charity song to where the bbc eventually caved and called the 18 month gap between season 22 and 23 a hiatus instead of flat out cancelling it so season 23 was basically the show being put on trial along with the doctor getting put on trial where if season 23 didn’t do well then we wouldn’t have gotten the sylvester McCoy seasons that ran through 1989 and we don’t know what would’ve happened to the doctor would he regenerate in a never resolved cliffhanger or would they have killed him off or done something else to him

Just want to say I agree, Trial is better. I've rewatched it a few times and the ending makes more sense with repetition. Flux, not so much. It will always be a headscratcher and too much thrown at the wall just to see what sticks. 17:24 I think GoT gets bad wrap (rap?) but mostly because people harp on the wrong thing being 'wrong' with it. It isn't a problem that Dany attacked King's Landing, she was always gonna do that. You don't have a story all about getting to one point, and then everyone made peace and had sandwiches and all was well. Narratively it as inevitable and character wise it was too. She'd been BBQing her enemies the whole series, we just didn't mind it when the people she was killing were bad. No, the real problem with the ending was the acceptance of Bran as king when his entire plot of being the 3 eyed raven had much more development in the books and made more sense, and even then, it was never leading toward him being made king. That was just goofy. Maybe making Jon the king was too obvious, but then GRRM is who wrote it to be that obvious, so subverting his own plan is kind of really bad. If I were gonna pick a series to Ishcan for having a bad ending, making me never want to touch the series again, it would be Battlestar Galactica. The ending of that was atrocious and ruined the whole show and it still makes me furious to this day.

Vera: Obviously [the Doctor] had [a mother]! Virgin New Adventures lean around the corner with a sly grin.

Nude with a Scarf was bold choice.

I think to be fair Trial stumples rather than falls down, Flux falls down. Sadly not only does Jodie Whittaker not get a moment like Colin's from The Ultimate Foe in Flux, she never gets it in her entire tenure when she absolutely deserved it. I have to say as well, as flawed as JNT's decisions could often be he was right about ending the series on a cliffhanger, the show was on the brink of cancellation and he was more aware of it than anyone, and that could have just been how the show ended, so Seward was just being a prick about that and many other things. If you ever want to watch some great British serialised sci-fi TV you should check out Quatermass and The Pit, excellent pre Doctor Who sci-fi, there are other Quatermass serial but if you're gonna watch one, its that, you can see the DNA of it in Doctor Who both old and young, but mostly in The Third Doctor era. Another one to check out is Sapphire and Steel, 6 serials, 3 brillaint ones, 2 great ones, and 1 great one.

The saddest element of new WHO is the desperate attempt to include the mother of the Doctor into the narrative in such an amateur way. The End of Time, the concept of the Doctor’s mother is teased but rushed & has very little impact. The Doctor’s mom after almost 50 years should be a big deal, but it is revealed off screen in a writer’s comments as something the audience could maybe guess. In Flux, the introduction of the mother figure is supposed to tie into the big reveal of the Timeless Child- again no emotional payoff from the Doctor or resolution of the reveal’s impact. If the Doctor doesn’t care- why should the audience? Trial gave the concept of the Doctor becoming the Valeyard which resonated with Time Lords going mad/evil the longer they lived such as Rassilon, Omega, and Borusa. Flux failed to tie up a major receL from the season before or explain its ending of most of the universe being destroyed as the universe seemed just fine in the next adventures.

Vera looking *sssnatched* today! ❤

Flux > toilet

Flux had great potential but it seems that for various reasons it failed. It had too many threads but somehow still wasted time with filler episodes, some of those story threads were pretty interesting but didn't end up going anywhere and even now I'm still not sure what the end meant, how much of the universe is left and how do those who survived feel about the event? The weirdest thing is seeing that the BBC still doesn't know how to support science fiction shows.

Trial is one of my least favourite seasons of classic and Flux is the worst of NuWho. But... Colin is more watchable than Jodie, Peri and Mel are more enjoyable than Yaz...so I'd watch Trial any day over Flux. Least favourite Doctor and least favourite era.

Wow! My 2 least favorite seasons ever! LOL!!! Story for story, I do like "Trial" more, and The Valeyard is a great villain while I don't think of anyone as good in "Flux". I HATE the 2nd story in "Trail" more than anything in "Flux", so there's that. Ultimately I appreciate the attempt to wrap things up more in "Trial". "Flux" just drops plot threads altogether, or wraps things up in one scene, no gratifying conclusions.

Flux. Flux by a country mile. I really enjoyed flux. We know it was hampered by COVID etc and some bits didn't quite land but hell , I really had a blast with flux. Trial of a time lord is just quite dull.