Hi Chris, Thanks for your kind words. It sounds like you have chosen what your next instrument will be. Exciting times ahead. When are you planning to get out? Cheers Phil

Thanks Camrun. Glad you liked the comparison.

Side by side comparisons work quite well. They can be expensive buying different horns though. :)

@@PhillONeillTrumpet these are the two horns I've been considering buying, so I'm very grateful for your taking the time to do this comparison!

@@edstud1 glad to hear it. What are you playing now? The Stomvi master is a lot more free blowing than the Bach. I would strongly recommend checking out the Stomvi classica with the gold wash bell also. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aL2kp5Wiz8-dpIk.html

Thanks.

Glad you like it Andrei. I’ll see what I can do.

Hi Ricky, thanks for your input. Which trumpet are you playing atm?

Thanks for getting in touch Norman. What are you playing?

Phill O'Neill . I play on a Bach 37 Trp.

Yeah, super close. Stomvi was a little more "splatty"

NOT even close. Stomvi is quite problematic when he pushes the horn.

The elite piccolo is a very easy picc to play. Probably the most free blowing picc ive played to date!!! Glad to hear youre enjoying it too

Thanks. It has taken me many years with many hours of practice listening and research to get to where I am at today. Compliments like this make me feel like it was worth it. Thank you

Nice score!!! Are you enjoying playing it?

I got my Forte in about 2002. I preferred it over the Elite in the shop despite being much cheaper. It has had hundreds of hours use, a few dings and the gold has rubbed of the top of the valve buttons, but it still sounds good.

Wear and tear is a sign of a well used horn! No one enjoys playing a horn they don’t feel and sound good on so keep up the good work!

Thanks for joining in amigomatt. I think you’re the first person with the same opinion as me with this. :)

good point made here Brian. Some people will only find a Bach a good horn choice and that's fine

Thanks Wayne, They've write valuable these days. Ive been offered more than double what I paid for it. Don't think I can bring myself to sell it though.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet my grandfather was bunny berigan he played on a conn. Anyway Jerry Callett had bought it off of someone who own it. Jerome sold it for 6.000 dollars. A conn 22 i think.

That’s a pretty cool story. I bet your grandfather would have told some amazing stories!

Hi Edward, What do you like about the tone from the king? Which olds do you have? I have the Mendez Recording at home. pretty cool horn.

It's a pretty incredible piece of kit. Having intonation and sound this consistent and being able to change bells, leadpipes and bell crooks is something special.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet absolutely. I might invest in one in the near future. I have to earn it first though lol.

I found the master far easier to play than the Bach. Especially the intonation. The typical flat D, Eb, E top of the stave is just effortless on the stomvi.

It’s an interesting experiment isn’t it Logan

Bach for me. Stomvi very bright and piercing

Thanks John. To be honest I’m not sure if the bore size. The Stomvi comes with 2 leadpipes, 2 tuning slides (the bell crook is the tuning slide), and 2 bells. I use the #1 bell, #25 tuning slide and the #27 bell. I have played with the setup several times and find this one works best for me. Sorry to hear you are no longer playing. I would love it if you shared your experiences by continuing to comment on this channel. Cheers, Phill

Hi Rob, Good to hear you coming back to this after upgrading your speakers. This video has become more popular than I ever thought possible. I think I may need to do more comparison videos and actually test some of the theories people are having. Happy practising

Of the reviews I read, this the one that most closely parallels my thoughts. Although I did not have a chance to listen in high definition stereo, I thought the Bach had more of the higher harmonics, i.e. I thought it was brighter than the Stomvi. Phil mentions the Stomvi bell is copper and I expect it is gold-plated. Although their gold-plated brass bells are supposed to be brighter than their solid silver bells, I don’t know how gold-plated copper would compare. I expect it would be darker than gold-plated brass, but how might it compare to solid silver? (I have a friend who has a Stomvi flugelhorn with raw copper bell, and man, that horn is really dark!) Anyway, I thought the articulation of both horns sounded similar. I don’t know how much difference i might perceive in the (comparatively poor) sound I would personally be able to attain with either, but it is great to hear these horns compared by a real master. Both sound beautiful. I think I’d prefer the sound of the Bach in situations where I wanted the sound to be brighter. For the record, my main horn is a Stomvi Elite lightweight model that I bought new at a very attractive price nearly 20 years ago. I had only heard of Stomvi a little over a year before that because at that time, I bought a Stomvi Classica for my son, then a High School sophomore. It was the one he liked best after trying several horns. I also have a Stomvi Combi (with a gold-plated brass bell and a solid silver bell) that I play rarely for special occasions. I don’t own any Bachs. When I originally bought my Stomvi Elite lightweight, I was comparing it to a few new Bachs, a Conn Vintage 1 with a fixed, solid silver bell. I chose the Stomvi because it seemed to require less air. It just seemed easier to play. On that day, with me playing the horn, the soundI was able to achieve seemed better. Since I only planned at that point to play for my own enjoyment, I was way more concerned with value, ease of play and how the horn sounded to me while I was playing it versus how it would sound to others. I bought the Combi second hand and I chose it based on reputation, condition and price without having played the horn. I also have a Stomvi Elite flugelhorn purchase second hand. In summary, if I was horn shopping for a really high end horn like these, I would hope to try several side-by-side and see how I could make them sound.

The valves are pretty fast on both horns. I’m very particular when it comes to valves :).

Thanks for your comment BrassThunder. Is there another trumpet you would like me to compare to the Bach?

@@PhillONeillTrumpet Maybe a Large Bore Bach and a Large Bore Schilke. I have a Bronx New York Strad and a early 80's Model 43 which plays very open compared to my 37 and if you ever get the chance check out a 70's Model 72 ML RL I tried a friends and honestly think it may be one I would revert to something illegal to get one.....Just kidding. I went to Bach's first Bach Fest back in 2017 and was disappointed they didn't have a single LB to try. I haven't found one in any Store either and I don't just buy without putting some time on it.....

Mates of mine here in Sydney have had a few large bore Bach’s. Usually 1980’s. I’ll see if any of them have one lying around and get another comparison for u.

Thanks Shawn, Interesting observation. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

People hear so differently, I hear exactly the opposite.

That’s the beauty of opinions. Everyone S is different

Hi Rob, Thanks for your kind words. The valves on both my Bach and Stomvi are awesome!!! I’m super strict with valves I really hate sluggish valves so I spend a lot of time working them in.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet Thanks for note. My Strad has very sluggish valves. Your note gives me hope my valves can be reworked properly.

Its difficult to bring sluggish valves back from the grave so to speak. A lot easier to get them working great from new. Try to be disciplined with hand posture and how you push the valves down every time you play. And always keep your valves clean. Good luck.

I know these comments are a year old but my strad had slow valves and simply changing valve oil from Bach to blue juice fixed it, worth a try I suppose

Yes I agree they both sound similar. I think it's because I sound like me on basically any horn I play. Or at least a version of me :)

I prefer the feel of the Stomvi. Especially between middle C and G just above the stave. It just slots nicely in that register when I find I need to manipulate the Bach a fair bit to play in tune there.

Not surprised. I like the Stomvi products. I have a Stomvi mouthpiece and it works wonderful for me.

Everything sounds better on the Stomvi. You sound like you feel at ease on it. The Stomvi is slightly brighter. More importantly, you are controlling the "gas pedal" on that brightness intuitively. As you go higher, the Stomvi's brightness gives it a sweetness which you capitalize on. The Stomvi also articulates better, and has a more even rich sound in the low register.

Thanks Randall, it's good to hear each persons personal view on it. do you play trumpet? what horn do you play?

Hi Wayne, Very true observation, usually the 2nd excerpt is slightly better than the first. You never part with a classic like a Mt. Vernon. I feel like the Stomvi is easier to play and then leaves me to think music rather than technique. This Stomvi has no modifications. As is off the shelf. I found the leadpipe and bell combo I liked that was in the case straight from the shop. Thanks for joining in.

Hi Phill Has either horn had a valve alignment ?

I havent done any work to either horn. Im not sure if the bach has had an alignment done by previous owner. Jon Ruff from Stomvi USA used to work with Bob Reeves, he made sure all Stomvi trumpet leave the factory with that kind of alignment as stock.

I don’t follow the bit about the “custom modifications on the Stomvi” mentioned by this author, since Phil makes the comment in the video about the Stomvi being “off the shelf.” Stomvi Masters come with interchangeable bells, lead pipes, crooks etc. so you can choose what suits you. I think Phil did a very credible job of describing the horns and playing them in as unbiased way as anyone could. In my opinion, saying that Phil biased this comparison toward one horn or the other is an insult.

That will be fine its a good value for money Trumpet. I really like the Stomvi Classica as another option. you can find my review on it here. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qJdjp5Ccnafef5s.html At the end of the day you should play as many different options and go with what feels the best to play for you. #HappyPractising

Thanks Garry. It’s a great horn. Worth checking out if you’re in the market for a new horn.

Thanks mossimmo, I used to have a 1980 Strad as well as this 1964 my Vernon. They are completely different horns. Both were good though.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet I keep listing to this vid and the more I listen the more I favor the Bach as the reasons I mentioned above and I might add that the Bach sounds as though it is on a rock solid foundation sound wise and has weight to it`s core not so much the Stomvi. I could listen to you play on the Bach all day long but I know you find the Stomvi easier to play. The Bach I play also has this quality with weight and beauty of sound. You could knock down the walls of Jericho with that Bach sound.

Lol. Thanks Mossimmo, Better bring down those walls :)

Thanks Valery.

Hi Richard, I don't understand what you're saying

I have played Bach Artisan but not the New York so I cannot compare them. I prefer to play Stomvi trumpets. Best of luck with your next trumpet purchase.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet thanks for the response Phill, it's so difficult to pick out between the same brand. Why do you prefer Stomvi? You are Stomvi artist, why do you consider Stomvi better than Bach?

Thats a fantastic question. Firstly the stomvi feels better to play. It has the perfect balance between openness and existence to help me play easier. The intonation is more consistent. I dont have to manipulate the D, Eb, E at the top of the stave as much as I did on any Bach. The stomvi is much more consistent among all of their instruments. Each version of the same horn that I've played is exactly the same as every other version of it. Unlike Bach, you can have 2 of the same horn and they feel completely different. Articulation really pops easily on the Stomvi. These are some of the reasons I really like playing Stomvi trumpets. As an artist I still pay for my instruments (there is a discount but is a tighter margin than most people think) and im happy to do so because they are great to play. I have had offers for sponsorship deals with other manufacturers but at the end of the day I need to believe in the product in addicts with.

Hi Bryan. I believe the Mt. Vernon is as it came from the factory. The previous owner said he had minor dents removed and general servicing but nothing other than that.

I bet you paid a pretty penny for it.

I’ve had it for quite a while now. It was a classic case of being in the right place at the right time.

Hi Tanner, welcome to my channel. What do you like from the Bach that stood out?

Thanks for getting in touch Plithos. It's funny you say that the Bach sounds easier, in reality the Stomvi was a lot easier to play. Good to hear your thoughts. What horn are you playing?

Phill O'Neill I'm 'struggling' with a Schilke X3 Beryllium (L bore). Wonderful sound/harmonics, quite versatile, tiring to fill .. :p

Thats a nice horn. Check out my flow study videos, they will help you fill the horn kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qrCXi5SWubTdm4U.html

it is a pretty nice horn I must admit but im am far from used to it these days. I try to preserve it and hence it spends more time in the case than on my face :)

They both feel like great horns. To me, when I consistently play the Stomvi it feels better than the Bach. One this I do prefer from the Bach to the Stomvi is the 1 piece bell. The Stomvi master is a 2 piece bell. The Stomvi Titan is a 1 piece bell and I think with the same setup on my master in the Titan I would find that the perfect horn!!!

Thanks what do you feel is the difference in playing a one piece to a two piece bell ?

I feel the 2 piece bell dampens the sound a little where the 1 piece bell rings out a bit more. On the master it’s only a very small thing it’s such an amazing instrument to play it’s only after playing it everyday for a year that I’ve started to think this.

I never thought to give them scores :) Thanks Nicholas.

What kind of Trumpet do you play?

I couldn't agree more Lance. This is why I put together this comparison. I might do the same comparison and have each instrument unknown to the listener to see if people can guess accurately.

I am amused by all the people who say the Bach is warmer, fuller or darker when the sound is so close on this video. If you used the sound clip from the Stomvi while showing a Bach played 80% of the replies would have been the same, guaranteed!!

🤣

Is a bit of a collector's piece now days. 😀

@@PhillONeillTrumpet pure beauty 😊😊😊

Thanks Bruce.

Thanks Dorian, What do you play on?

Hi Phil sorry for the late reply but I play on a Bach Strad 72

@@doriandavis6822 Thats a nice horn. I played one of those for a while.

Yeah I love the intonation

Thanks for joining in Ronisarin.

Hi Lous, No test over the Internet is going to be a “true test” this is merely an example of the 2 instruments side by side same player, same excerpts, same room, same reverb (no other EQ or compression). The only way to get a true test is to go and play the horn yourself. Happy practising.

Phill O'Neill I guess you are right about that . Thanks for letting me know

What Trumpet do you play?

Hi Kris, It’s the standard weight 37 bell.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet I thought as much. Many copy the 37. Kanstul did a nice 37 as well. Even the cheap F. Schmidt sounded right.

haha thats quite funny.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet by the way, you play very well! Have you played the Bach NY 43 "centennial" trumpet, vs the Bach 19037 from the Elhart's "50th anniversary" production? Which one would you buy first? Thanks!

I’ve played a lot of Bach’s tbh. I don’t remember a lot of the details truth be told. I’m the sort of person who picks up a horn and if it feels good play it if it doesn’t keep looking. You seem to like vintage Bach’s. Do you have a big collection?

No Phill, I am just a music lover, and I play a bit of trumpet. I only have a Yamaha (basic) trumpet, and a Bach Strad C trumpet, from the 90s when I had more time to study. So, among these two trumpets a previously mentioned, if you ever had a chance to play one, which one would it be? based on product description and other demo videos? Please pick one ;)

I would never buy a horn without playing it. I made that mistake once and i suffered the consequences!!! :)

Good analysis David. U have nailed it right there. The horns are designed completely differently and you can hear it in the response and overtones. Thanks for your input.

Yup the Bach Z bracing and huge solder points keep the bell from resonating and the Stomvi C shaped reverse tuning slide makes the slotting more slippery. Looks like there is a little more mass at the leadpipe receiver for efficiency and I'm sure there are tremendous differences at the bell. I bet that's huge fun to play.

Now that I’ve done some research on the Stomvi Master I see that’s not a reverse tuning slide but an interchangeable tuning slide so you can customize the leadpipe. Tuning is done with a removable bell crook. That horn is crazy cool!

Yeah it’s a lot of fun to play. Go and test one out. I’m sure you’ll love it.

I bought one. Insane horn. So easy to play. It just rips and plays circles around a Bach.

Thats interesting you say that. What speakers/ headphones are you listening with?

@@PhillONeillTrumpet Nothing too special. Audio Technica M50x

Good observation there Hydro. there is a cult following with Bach trumpets. I used to be one of them. A good Bach does play great! Getting a Bach off the shelf to be as good as the previous Bach off the shelf is not so reliable. I will make a blind video like this some day (Hopefully soon) and see who prefers what then. :)

This highlights exactly why I made this video. The players concept of sound has more to do with the outcome than the instrument itself. Plenty of ppl play big band on both of these instruments proving they can be used anywhere.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet Hey dear Phil, I never tried a Stomvi, even never played a Bach but noticed how quite a few (amateur) players on Bach had certain notes that sprang out because of intonation problems to my taste so I never wanted one. I didn't google your name sir, but you sound obviously from the first notes like a rarely gifted soloist. About that big band remark: well, I can play high and loud but not for long and I noticed how small bored , light, bright instruments helped me a bit.So I would not choose myself for that kind of setting these noble majestic instruments here but yes of course many other players would find them excellent for this job too.

Exactly. Match the player to the horn. If you feel good playing a smaller horn then continue playing the smaller horn. Thanks for your kind words. I just really enjoy playing the trumpet. :)

Thats a call!!!!

I enjoy playing the S3 but I feel the bell flare is a bit big for the majority of my playing.

Yes I have played many of the Schargerl. There is a lot to like with them. I find them to not be the horn for me.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet What are the detractors for Schargerl?

That depends on the horn. I really like the rotary trumpets. They play great. The meister is the most common schagerl in Australia. I found it to be a bit stuffy for me.

@@PhillONeillTrumpet theres about 9 different 'meister' trumpets that schagerl makes, which ones have you tried?

@@MH-iv7tk Mostly the James Morrison model is the common model here in Australia. What do you play on?

Thanks Willie, What do you play?

Phil, I play on a Zeno and on a Raw Brass trumpet made by Ben Zagrean from Oregon. I play all types of music. Always dig listening to a good horn player play. And you my friend, are a very good horn player!

Thanks Willie. Very kind of u to say.

What makes you say that? Just wanting to hear your thoughts.

Thanks Dave. Do you play?

Phill O'Neill I played and stopped about 35 years ago to go into US Army. I have only recently picked a horn back up and it is a King Legend with a .462 bore. I liked the sound it had when I tried it out and the price was right. I only play in church these days as I have many health conditions and am on disability due to those conditions. I very much enjoy your videos. You are quite an artist. You have a superb sound and great Classical style. I have a more Swing style. I listened to your video twice more and I will give it to you. I did prefer the Stormvi in the end. But, you would make any horn sound great. Cheers.

Thanks Dave very kind of you to say this. It’s great to see you have picked up the horn after 35 years off! I have a soft spot for service personnel. Serving and ex serving. From one former military member to another thanks for your service. Next year I will be releasing a series on the Clarke technical studies book and how to get the most from it. Keep an eye out for it on my website www.philloneill.com Cheers

@@PhillONeillTrumpet Thanks for heads up on Clarke Technical Studies. I will be watching. And thank you for your service, Sir.

This is all positive feedback! With soo many different makes of trumpet and each having slight differences. My main point that seems to come across in this video is that when a player plays different horns they will ultimately create the sound in their head. In this video most ppl seem to be saying the 2 instruments stack up closely to each other. Mind you Bach has been commented as a fan favourite so far. It’s hard to say weather it’s been the favourite because of the reputation of the mt. Vernon or if that is what is being heard. Maybe I’ll do a blind test and see what the results are then.

Here’s another view that more closely matches my perception. I admire your ability to describe what differences you hear personally. Most people are saying the Stomvi sounds brighter to them, but I think it sounds a tad warmer/darker. I loved what I perceived as a brighter sound from the Bach, and I happen to own several Stomvis but no Bachs. I loved the sound of both horns, really, but this is mostly because of the ability of the player. I am amused, but certainly not surprised, by the reviews that say the Bach is “definitely better” without articulating any differences they hear.

There are several different pieces being used in this video. Which one are you referring to?

First song!!!! Please

@@user-wc5th1bb4x The first piece being played in the demo is the Haydn Trumpet concerto. The intro piece which is used for many of my KZfaq introductions is a fanfare that I wrote specifically for my KZfaq channel. I hope this helps.

I don’t speak Spanish. If you could ask again in English that would help me understand what your saying. cheers, Phill

@@PhillONeillTrumpet They sound very similar, as someone says in the comments, the important thing is how it best accommodates the performer. For me the Bach sound is more solid, stronger, with a certain hardness, perhaps less flexible. The Stomvi is vibrant, probably because of the lacquered bell but its sound is more round. Both are good for me, it's a matter of personal preference. At the moment, I am surprised by the sound of the Bach, but in the end I prefer the Stomvi. Congratulations to Phill he is a great trumpeter!