"Semiconductor manufacturing is literally black magic. All of this just barely works, man." My favorite quote of this episode.

"Idk guys this video is pretty niche and probably won't do well -" Goes on to unroll the most fascinating semiconductor historical deep-dive with ample visual aid and citations. I love this channel so much.

Niche is best. General overviews are a dime a dozen. I want the deep lore. The kind professors try to hide from us behind 3 inch thick hardcovers.

The drama of the semiconductor industry is long, wide and varied; not just the interconnection of transistors but the players themselves. Always a good time to get a glimpse into that world.

FYI - when chip frequencies approach microwave (about one GHz) , the regular resistance and capacitor functions become really weird. For many years of my career, designing circuit boards was fairly easy. Then system frequencies approached one GHz and beyond and we had to use microwave design rules where a wire was no longer a wire but much more complex with properties like an antenna. The chip designers have also hit those restrictions which is one of the reasons very few commercial chips function beyond two GHz and all cpu/gpu makers went to multi-cpu/gpu designs.

"niche" almost every human on earth uses this technology that is the closest thing humans have ever done to literal magic. The work you're doing with this channel is priceless for society.

Thanks Jon, as usual a brilliantly researched topic. As another commenter stated "Niche is good". In the years to come, you will be regarded as the definative semiconductor historian.

Dude, how do you produce so many incredibly good videos on such a consistent basis? I can't thank you enough for teaching me so much about the industry I work in, plus various other topics. You're one of the best resources for this kind of thing.

Birds on a line don't add DC resistance but do add capacitance, thus adding to the AC impedance to a point that you can measure it if you wanted, with signal reflections even WHERE on the line they sit.

As a Masters in Electrical Engineering student, these videos are providing me with very insightful additional resources for my courses. I thank you a lot for your hard work.

12:20 the person second from the left is Lisa Su who's now CEO of AMD

This was a great history of these technologies. As an engineer who has firs to hand experience with these lines and steps, I appreciate the background, and I see the same ongoing work and challenges with current industry shifts.

Two things delayed 300mm production. Photo lithography improvement (smaller lines). And copper’s pressure curve. Copper would deposit on vacuum pump lobes and make the pump useless within a week.

This video was one of the most satisfying videos I've seen in a while! It was sooo cool to learn soo much in just 40 mins! This, for me, was one of those videos that really made all the puzzle pieces I've been gathering over the years just fall into place together... Thanks! Your presentation of all this historic and scientific data was immaculate!

Thanks for this fascinating and well written video! Your narration / delivery is excellent - clear, well paced, informative, and yet just informal and human enough to warm the whole thing up and make it relaxing and fun. I think this is my favorite of your videos. A great topic, given an excellent treatment.

The designers define the product R x C as the "time constant" of an integrator. So the RC number is not "niche" as many said, but it is absolutely at the front of semiconductor technology in setting the maximum clock frequency of an IC. Thank you for the incredibly well researched video. Greetings, Anthony

亲爱的亚洲测量学 作为一名IEEE技术极客，我对您最近分享的技术纪录片中所运用的无可挑剔和简明扼要的细节印象深刻。感谢您提醒我在IEEE行业工作时核物理学教育的重要性。这样的背景在未来的技术发展中是非常宝贵的。这部视频是您杰出工艺的产物，我很感激有机会见证专业知识和技术创新的交汇。 诚挚的问候, 宋我为你博士

😅 May I just say, I find it very amusing that Asianometry would say 'Aluminum' while placing 'Aluminium' on the screen for us 😂

Small correction at 17:40 . This is an edge bead removal chamber used to etch away copper seed on the edge post electroplating. You can see a small grey arm used to dispense etchant on the edge of the plated wafer. Great video, love your content!

Another GREAT video. It reminded me of my first term in digital electronics decades ago. I remember this innovation! IBM inventing copper on silicon, as it was called, back then. What I didn't realise was the rest of the industry catching up within the year. And yes the low-K dielectric problem took more time to crack. By that time, I have already moved to the software side of things. I remember my Polytechnic offering Micro-tronics (wafer fab) for the Mechanical engineering students.

I like this channel. It's one of my top 5 favorites. You really found a niche, and tell good stories.

I made copper dummy wafers for the new copper chip makers. The copper plating bath was unique. It deposited high purity copper preferentially in the bottom of trenches. By inhibiting deposition at the top of the trenches. This enabled filling deep high aspect ration trenches to be filled. Subsequent chemical mechanical polishing resulted in deep clean vias and a flat surface for subsequent deposition. Truly a game changer. And an exquisite example of the platers art.

You son of a... I have never been this thrilled and fascinated by a story about microchips. That was truly fantastic! I have seen all your videos and this was by far the most exciting one. Remarkable work!

You are missing critical information as to how TSMC "cracked" the low k dielectric issue at the 130nm node...specifically they didn't. What happened was that at the 130 nm node they went into a "partnership" with LSI Logic in exchange for fab capacity and a Low-k copper back end. In reality TSMC's low-k backend was as you've mention fluorinated oxide, which was "lower-k". As part of the agreement LSI and TSMC "shared" their 130nm processes, LSI had a low-k/Cu backend that had been put together inside a year after the sales/marketing group changed their tack on what was required for the interconnect - initially they agreed a low-k/Al process was OK (which it was from strictly a data driven standpoint, but by mid process development Cu/Low-k were the buzzwords and they changed their requirements, hence the hasty development of the low-k/Cu backend). This low-k/Cu backend used low-k from the 180nm process using Electrotech/Trikon Flowfill dielectric, that I believe was MSQ based. After we saw the FSG/Cu backend process that TSMC were using for their 130nm process, we had to transfer the Low-k/Cu process from our development to TSMC to be able to produce our 130nm material, so TSMC effectively were given all the information to run a true low-k/Cu back end process, effectively for free. It was universally agreed by the engineering staff who were required to do the transfer as a BAD IDEA, and was the beginning of the end for LSI Logic wrt to developing and manufacturing leading edge technology, but the corporate leadership thought is was a good idea as it saved on manufacturing investment, but at the expense of giving away the process crown jewels at that point in time.

Very impressive research and excellent video presentation. I lived through the 250, 180, and 130 nm process nodes as a fab customer. Thank you for helping me relive this history.

So well put together and interesting!!! Wow thanks!

Seriously impressive video. Really respect the amount of research and effort you put into this.

This was well researched and well presented. Excellent!

I now understand why the later pentium 3 chips are code named coppermine.

You make among the best quality content on the subject. Not just on KZfaq but period. Niche is your strong suit.

TSMC enjoyed technology transfer for copper BEOL. It was only later that they started leading, after reaching parity with IEDMs. I know, I had to transfer and teach them. Novellus and IBM worked on the node and invented the capital equipment. Other American vendors worked with iedms on the stack. It was wall street and finance capital that pushed asset light strategy.

Excellent program. Very interesting chronology. Learnt that Copper xan't be etched. Didn't know that. Also had not realized that the metal separation layer was a Tantalum compound. I can see now why it too IBM 15 years to develop it. Thank you for your amazing work.

Incredibly niche but equally interesting! 👌

This gave me a deeper appreciation for the hard-won R&D miracles that go into the struggle for cheaper faster microprocessors. It's amazing to think of how far TSMC has come in a couple of decades. I for one would love to know more about the even more miraculous struggle to get us to 2nm.

Please do a RISC V essay please

Truly one of your best presented videos so far

Jon Deer, Fantastic presentation as always! Including the cat place holder where the photo was unavailable…. 😃

By the way, in the IBM copper team picture 12:19, that's Lisa Su, second from left.

Very good video - AMD using CVD to apply butter is a classic comment. Passing along a couple of historical comments: IBM always had a Ferrari type process in the wings that they didn't run or scale up. In 1979, the M1 & M2 pitches for NMOS 1 were 5.0 and 7.4um. The process used Polyimide dielectric (2.8 dielectric constant). Patterning the vias had topography issues that were related to reliability problems, but the biggest issue was that IBM never decided to ramp production - it was easier to use the internal technology as a bargaining chip.

Wow that was seriously in-depth! Really well researched!

I ramped up Intel fab 22, their first full production copper fab. I worked in defect metrology. This sure brings back memories. I've spent literally thousands of hours looking at copper metal lines under a microscope.

Today I was having a bad pain day. I have Osteogenesis Imperfecta or Brittle Bones and have fractured over 150 times in my life. So I just smoked some thankfully legal weed and got on KZfaq and was blessed with a 30+ min Asianometry! Your videos genuinely help me relax and feel better and I just wanted to say thank you for all the work you put into these videos. They are second to none. ❤

Great overview. Thanks for this very detailed and informtive video.

Thanks for citing the papers, they really help in understanding the tradeoffs.

Thanks for all the research req'd to make such a detailed video.

This is by far the most insightful video I’ve ever seen about the history of Cu/LK being introduced to the industry. I was lucky in almost all those scenes even they were so painful but finally we went through, and all the way to 50x smaller geometry now.

Longer but very educative vid. Excellantly explained, thx a lot!

Amazingly well researched, thanks for your insights!

That was awesome. Thanks for sparking the memories

Amazing, what a great history lesson .. well done !!!

Thanks for the video. I was with AMD that time, and we had a good cooperation with Motorola for the copper process. I remember having at the begin a real grazy separation in FEOL and BEOL, production areas ,later it came clear it didn’t need to be that harsh.

15:34 "Sounds complicated and unintuitive? It is. (...) All of this stuff just barely works, man." 😆

Interesting. I always learn something new about semiconductors from this channel.

Fascinating story I’ve never heard of. Thank you very much!

Very interesting Jon, niche is good , so few people make these kinds of video essays

Birds hardly affect resistance but they do add capacitance :)

I remember the introduction of copper interconnect. At the company where I worked, there was concern about the reactivity of Cu with Si02 and the difficulties posed by the barrier metals at that time - titanium and I think palladium and tungsten, which were all causing problems because they were such hard metals. But that speed pickup from Cu was irresistible. That's also when companies and foundries started to get very interested in better insulators/IMDs like 'Coral.' Interesting that tantalum became the barrier metal of choice.

the pic of Kowloon walled city reminds me the first video that introduced me to your channel.

I'm not sure what could be too niche, so far every video I've watched in the last few years from you has been captivating 😅

Another great video, Jon! Thank you

Thank you for your content. It may be niche but it’s content that’s hard to find elsewhere and is presented very clearly

Great video. I'm a layman in the field but found it very interesting. Thanks.

I love this videos they are what inspire me to continue sharpening my knowledge base

this has to be one of the greatest videos ever uploaded on KZfaq.

I am a former Nikon Photolithography tech from IBM Burlington(technically in Essex Jct), now owned by Global Fundries. You are spot on with your A&P of the terms. Good job.

Thanks for the short and informative lecture 👍

Very informative - thank you - still got lost between spin-offs and their spin-ins

I wish i understood this better. I really wish i would have known about this stuff in high school in the 80's. . . Im glad you all understand it. My son's 13900k and 4080 are sure glad too!

Hey Jon, great video. Long time sub to your channel. You deserve much more subs. That being said, what are your thoughts on Canon's nanoimprint systems that is suppose to compete with ASML's lithography machines? Would love a video and thoughts on advantages and disadvantages. Keep up the good work!

I always find it odd how American English speakers say "niche"; anywhere that speaks British English (UK, Australia, etc.) pronounce it "neesh" in-line with its French origin. Thanks for the wonderful video John.

Thanks for in-depth research!

4:53 "...were the circuits like freeways? I kept dreaming of a world I thought I'd never seen."

WoW!! Fascinating stuff! Well done!!

Thanks for this exceptional video !

Excellent video as always! 😊

great explanations. Love this channel

I really liked that you used plenty of graphics for this one, also great graphics choices.

Your historical report on this copper breakthrough seems like a headline article from an "Investigative Journalist's" 3 year study. I know nothing of these molecular fabrication processes, nor the enormous financial risks big companies take in edging out their competitors (so we can watch yachts racing across our computer monitors). After watching your episode, I feel much better informed about the tiny electronic world I hold in my hands every day. Thank You!

Very nice, remember reading about it way back when, now I'm smart enough to understand what exactly were they doing there.

I liked the cat picture. Seriously though, this was incredibly interesting to learn about.

Oh and I wanted to ask if you have researched anything about the experiments with fabs in space. There are lots of interesting things with growing the crystals in space but I haven't really seen how any of the benefits could be applied. I mean it seems like gravitation when laying down layers is a big problem. If all layers could be deposited in microgravity, then deposition would be completely regular with maybe only quantum irregularities in the materials.

crazy how fun and engaging these historical storylines can be

I gotta wonder how long it takes to make one of these vids. Must take days to film and edit, but weeks extra for the initial research efforts. Amazing.

IBM's trouble with their lowK process impacted my employer at the time. They ended up moving to TSMC. Also, another unexpected impact of finer pitch interconnects - especially the mid-level long runs - inductance! We ran into cross talk problems causing glitches that would cause latches to pop open when they shouldn't. 🤦

Great stuff. Love the semiconductor stuff. (Ok, so the Al/Cu stuff is conductor stuff - still awesome!)

I remember i was in high school around this time, and cpu speed drastically increased over the course of several years. Went from 300, 400mhz to 500, 600, 900 and up, so quickly! I wonder if a good amount of it was due to this process.

It's crazy how many developments and innovations there are in semiconductors that practically no one knows about and we all take for granted every day.

Fantastic documentary!

Hehe...you made this history very entertaining and easy to understand. Great video

“Niche”? Yes. Incredibly informative? Also, Yes. This video essay may well not yield as many likes, or as many the same metrics as other videos, I would offer that the reach and effect of something this “niche”, from such a brilliantly well done other catalogue of videos/topics - may well find future viewers who arrive to the video at their own space/time. To them/then it will be worth it. Keep up the good work!

So since the video stops around 2001, are we to expect that the low-k in current chips is still the same or will there be more videos on this subject? I guess you could squeeze it in with the attempt at power/IO coming from different sides?

How on earth you understand such deep electronics dude? You are brilliant!

I seem to remember that one of the processes on the dielectric was that it had to be mechanically stressed in one direction - but I can't remember the exact details.

do you have a list of sources for this video? In particular I am having trouble finding the Business Next article about the team from tsmc 25:42 thank you and amazing vid btw!

I wonder what is the dielectric constant of the material used in the newest production nodes such as TSMC 3nm. I couldn’t find it on Google.

I am happy to see the trench resident interconnect idea being used. I patented a version of the idea in 1991 while working for Harris Semiconductor.

Great work, as always.

Great video again!

Nice video, but I feel a little disappointed that you never explained more about the low-k PECVD method at the end. Though you got pretty close by mentioning brand names like Black Diamond and references to the PECVD manufacturer like Novellus. I looked into these low-k PECVD layers: it seems to be "carbon doping" an SiO2 layer (while it's being deposited) to obtain SiOCH. There's various precursors that can be used, and making the layers more porous also helps.

AMD CEO Lisa Su was working in Copper interconnect in IBM and she was also shown in the photo at 12:29.