Knowing how to read a compressor map will help you make the right choice when choosing a turbo for your car! This series is proudly brought to you by Mighty Car Mods and GFB www.gfb.com.au www.mightycarm...
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@icojb252 жыл бұрын
Never thought I would hear such a bang on description on adiabatic efficiency in a car mod video ... good video, thanks
@samc58987 жыл бұрын
It's amazing that you can explain it so well in just 5 minutes, this actually helped a lot. Thanks, Brett!
@whatdaf117 жыл бұрын
I agree. It's now a topic that I'm staying to research into (how to correctly size a turbo for your application), and this video was the perfect introduction to it. Only disappointing thing is at the end he mentions that for further information there is more info available online, but some links or suggestions for good sources of information would be helpful
@patw52pb17 жыл бұрын
+whatdaf11 These are a complex subjects with numerous variables and caveats. My suggestion to be successful is to get a good grasp of thermodynamics, fluid mechanics, fluid-dynamics and gas laws first. Here are a few good turbo specific places to start... garrett.honeywell.com/ www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/ www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/boostadviser www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/compressor_maps www.enginelogics.com/read-a-turbo-compressor-map/ www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/AR%20turbo%20ratio%20explained.html www.google.com/search?num=100&newwindow=1&q=how+to+correctly+size+a+turbocharger&oq=how+to+correctly+size+a+turbo&gs_l=psy-ab.1.0.0i22i30k1l2.143921.160184.0.169847.24.23.1.0.0.0.426.2516.16j6j4-1.23.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.24.2517...0j0i20k1j0i13k1j33i22i29i30k1j0i13i30k1.FSud9yGj0qs
@Zcypot7 жыл бұрын
My VF52 isnt as small as the TD04 and man it hated being pushed. My tuner knew this very well and made my car into a torque monster and tapper off at redline. Not worth pushing your small turbo for big power, on any car, it just makes it into a hair dryer on steroids. Got bigger turbo now, pushing same boost but made more power. I havent had issues in this heat wave so far, I know my vf52 would have been causing a lot of knocks. My injectors are maxed so this turbo is hardly doing any work right now. From a recent article "Run a Bigger Turbo Believe it or not, but a bigger turbocharger is a great upgrade for engine durability. For Subarus running 18+ PSI, the larger compressor wheel and housing will produce the same boost pressure at a lower temperature. The bigger turbine and turbine housing also improve the ability for the engine to expel exhaust gasses. Overall it is a great upgrade for any Subaru running more than stock boost pressure."
@ronnieboucherthecrystalcraftsm2 жыл бұрын
that graph shows the turbo working best at 2.25 about and 2.6 = the most efficant area of performance in the middle of the spinnacre ! graph !
@rabidu2b7 жыл бұрын
If the pressure at the inlet is less, then the pressure ratio has increased.
@AF290077 жыл бұрын
That assumes output pressure has remained unchanged
@rabidu2b7 жыл бұрын
Yes I'm saying he errored at 1:17.
@AF290077 жыл бұрын
oh gotcha
@flagpoleeip7 жыл бұрын
Yep. I agree.
@spud42427 жыл бұрын
no, he still said 1 bar BOOST. not an absolute output pressure. so 1 bar in and 1 bar boost = ratio of 2...0 .9 bar in and 1 bar boost is 1.9 bar ratio of 1.9 i.e less...
@olov2447 жыл бұрын
nice addition to the channel imo
@austinmaxi7 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see how you work out choosing the turbos for Compound set up!!
@gearhead_james7 жыл бұрын
Never really thought about the calculations behind this sort of thing. Really cool video :)
@JordyValentine7 жыл бұрын
good idea for a video guys, most people with turbo's don't even know what a turbo map is, let alone how to read one
@justinwilliams13337 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the great info once again. Can the next vid be on how to correctly match a turbo using the map like you have just shown.
@blago62 жыл бұрын
If the pressure at the inlet is less, than atmosfere the pressure ratio is more not less and turbo is working hader to provide that 1 bar or wahteser is set to
@oistein745 жыл бұрын
Intercooler psi drop is also a part of pressure ratio calculations
@blago62 жыл бұрын
well it's important for the engine power but the talk in the video is about the turbo efficiency itself.
@240SSONLY Жыл бұрын
Great video man. Can you please refresh my memory on how to plot the points on that compressor map, that show your different RPMs using the Volumetric efficiency formula at 1000rpm increments... I can't seem to find it anywhere. It's basically to determine what you're saying about being on the surge zone or efficiently working the turbo matched to the engine performance
@waynefraser99727 жыл бұрын
I do love these videos, always interesting. thanks guys
@PANTYEATR17 жыл бұрын
YAY! Bret took my suggestion thanks man. I'm still a little confused tho 😕
@Drew_peaballs_1287 жыл бұрын
Nice work Brett!
@AndresGarcia-wj3dl7 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much for this
@aspboss19733 жыл бұрын
I have a compressor wheel ,but i cant find its performance graph. How to find it pls help.
@aspboss19732 жыл бұрын
Hi ,nice video. Would you please help me ? I have a compressor wheel. On it,27/2227L is written. And I need to find compressor map for this one. Please helps. Thank you.
@seinfeld111237 жыл бұрын
this was really incomplete. leaves many unanswered questions.
@npbevo7 жыл бұрын
jack black I believe he said it was a basic idea of how it works, he's not going to do a uni course on explaining it.... Find an engineering explained video if you want that
@MrSlowestD167 жыл бұрын
You can write books about this shit. Actually, Corky Bell and many others already have! Can't expect him to answer it all, we'd be here for hours.
@BramBiesiekierski7 жыл бұрын
jack black Agree. As the others have said, this is a very complicated topic, and way more than you could expect to cover in a short You tube video. But at the very least i would have liked to see him explain how to calculate the estimated air mass consumption of a engine for a given RPM and boost. Without this piece of info, looking at compressor maps is basically a waste of time. But once you have calculated the estimated air requirements of your engine. You can then plot that data over the top of a compressor map. And this will fairly accuaretly be able to tell you how the turbo would be expected to perform on your engine. And allow you to best choose a turbo for your application. This should have been covered in the video, as without this step, what is even the point of looking at a compressor map? It means nothing to you if you cant relate where you engine will be operating on the map.
@arielreynoso1664 Жыл бұрын
Hello, with which of the 2 wheels I have the best performance, both wheels have the same average TD04HL 45.65/52mm 5+5blades turbo wheel/ turbine shaft&wheel for MITSUBISHI TD04HL 45.65/52mm 9 blades turbo wheel/ turbine shaft&wheel for MITSUBISHI
@finnice7 жыл бұрын
Always waiting 😇
@Mishellis7 жыл бұрын
1 bar of compressor pressure with 1 bar of atmospheric intake pressure makes a pressure ratio of 1, not 2.
@mikeymasi6 жыл бұрын
Mishellis gauge pressure versus absolute pressure.
@blago62 жыл бұрын
1 bar of compressor pressure is 2 bar absolute pressure so 2bar absolute divided by 1 bar ambient pressure equals pressure ratio of 2 or 14.7 psi of boost pressure is 29.4 psi absolute soo 29.4 psi of absolute divided by 14.7 psi ambient equals... you guessed it pressure ratio of 2
@Mishellis2 жыл бұрын
@@blago6 Wow, I don't know what I was thinking when I said that 4 years ago. Thanks
@benjohnston77427 жыл бұрын
Can you explain the potato exhaust thing Marty and moog used
@zuesmondo17 жыл бұрын
A little thermodynamics fun.
@MrSlowestD167 жыл бұрын
Increased pressure ratio if you start lower but end at the same, no? So obtaining the pressure ratio is pretty straight forward, but for corrected air flow you need to know the actual engine airflow then adjust for temp/pressure, but how do you get the engine's air flow? It's pretty vital to using this map.
@BramBiesiekierski7 жыл бұрын
MrSlowestD16 Agree 100%. Without working out the approximate air mass your engine is expected to be consuming, these maps arent gonna help you choose a turbo. But with some info on engine size, max boost, max RPMs and such, you can pretty easily guestimate the amount of air your engine will roughly use at various RPMs and various boost levels. First step would be to try and get an approximate amount of air mass that your engine will consume. There are plenty of online calculators available that will give you an approximate value if you punch in a few bits of info. Displacement, boost, RPM and sometimes volumetric efficency. (Some online calculators are very detailed and allow for temperature and elevation aswell.) If you work out the approximate airflow you expect your engine to consume at certain RPMs and at certain boost levels, you can then plot that info onto a compressor map of a turbo you are considering and that will then help you best choose a turbo. You can see what RPMs the turbo should be at peak efficiency on your car. And what rpm and/or boost it will start to fall off the efficiency islands. But these maps are only half the story. They are only compressor maps, and they have no consideration to turbine size or AR. And how that will effect things. For example Garrett fo a gtx3076 and a gtx3576. Both have the same compressor, but the 35 has a larger turbine. These maps will not explain any of this to you. But you can use some guesstimation and assume the one with the larger turbine will be slightly slower to spool, but support a little more horsepower. This is exactly the steps i used when choosing my last turbo. And once fitted, the characteristics very closely matched my predicted calculations.
@BramBiesiekierski7 жыл бұрын
When calculating the estimated air consumption of an engine. Some things are gonna be pretty easy. Dispacement, boost and RPMs are pretty easy to punch into an online calculator. As is temps aswell. But they will sometimes ask for a volumetric efficiency (VE) figure. Which is gonna be difficult to know. But you can make a pretty good guess for this. Most 4 valve per cylinder dohc engines are gonna be up in the 90s these days. Cars with big cams may push this out a bit further and/or later into the rev range. Other breathing mods like performance exhausts and intakes, and especially things like cylinder head porting and such willl also generally net better VE. (Its why mods like that make more power) With that info, you can then plot the points over the top of a turbo compressor map and this will then give you a pretty accurate estimation of how the turbo in question will perform.
@ikramtouati82433 жыл бұрын
This map is specifically at standard conditions? So if I want to use it at other conditions I need to use similarity?
@abhishekbanerjee94253 жыл бұрын
Had a doubt. You said when the RPM increases the operating point goes horizontally to the right to the current RPM curve. However, shouldn't the boost ratio increase as well and the operating point actually shift diagonally?
@RChero1010 Жыл бұрын
The Y axis only contains the pressure ratio. If your boost holds 1 bar above atmospheric and your turbo has a very good intake without losses, you're very close to a 2.0 pressure ratio. You will stay at 2.0 pressure ratio unless you start asking your boost controller for more or less boost across the rpm range.
@aishwaryaps27324 жыл бұрын
thanks a lot!
@hamadmarouch55597 жыл бұрын
I'm at school and I see a notification from mighty car mods new video and I stoped work and now I'm watching
@figifister7 жыл бұрын
thanks for yet another video of an explanation that didn't teach me anything. there has got to be a way to explain how it works in terms that are easily understood. I guess what im asking for is a video that takes an engine and multiple compressor maps and clearly defines what each line is and how you can equate the pressure ratio to something tangible ie: max boost pressure you want to run. then have a corresponding line show rpm and where that engine is in those efficiency islands as it accelerates. then take each map and show how the every day person can get the best turbo matched to their engine. I mean isn't that what people look at the maps for anyway? I know each engine is very different due to how the exhaust and intake flows but can you take a base line measurement like liters and show how this turbo would be bad because it has too much displacement? then show us what turbos come close to being fully efficient for most of the rev range. That would show me a more practical use for the maps other wise I don't see a use. there has to be a common denominator that each person can use to pair the turbo properly.
@Slysdexia27 жыл бұрын
The issue is that static displacement only tells you part of the story, and every turbo is going to react differently on every engine, yielding a near infinite number of combinations, each incomparable to another, even with similar turbos. You can't just list boost, because atmospheric pressure plays a role, as does the pressure at the inlet of the turbo in the case of vehicles where you're limited on plumbing. You just can't list this out with hard numbers unless it's for a very specific combination with all parts being known. 1 Bar on a 2L four versus 1 bar on a 4.6L eight is going to have VERY different airflow requirements, with no turbo able to efficiently accomplish both. Hell, even hitting 1 Bar at 3000 RPM versus being at 1 Bar at 7000 RPM on the same engine is going to have a major difference in what you're going to be asking of the turbo because of differences in airflow and cylinder filling. A SOHC 2.0L engine with a crap head and restrictive manifolds is going to move less air than a DOHC 1.8L with really high flowing heads and manifolds, RPM being equal. This is why turbo manufacturers use compressor maps rather than anything else. The charts are relatively simple, you just have to know how much air your engine moves at the RPM you want peak boost at (you can ballpark it and still be fine), and how much boost you want. At sea level on a calm day, you'd see 1 Bar of atmospheric pressure, so if you wanted 1 Bar of boost, you'd want a pressure ratio of 2. With the vertical axis being pressure ratio, that tells you how much pressure, relative to the barometer, that the turbo will be happy at and the horizontal tells you how much airflow it'll be good with. In the map shown, that turbo will be happiest with between a pressure ratio of 1.75 at 20 lb/min of air, and 2.75 and 32lb/min of air. That would have a 2L engine pretty happy at 1 bar at 4000 RPM, or it would have a 4.6L engine making the same boost at 2300 RPM nearing the top of this turbo's highest efficiency island, if I have my math right. That 4.6L engine would be so far beyond the compressors choke point at 4000 RPM that neither it or the turbo would be long for this world. Short answer: This is as simple as compressor maps can be explained and not just turn into armchair racing with potential for huge inaccuracy. TL;DR: Just get whatever the forums says works for your car and power goals.
@figifister6 жыл бұрын
aerocharger.com/aerochargers/#technology
@figifister6 жыл бұрын
check that site out! that is the most helpful tool I've seen for calculating what turbo to get! after you put your values in for your area you live and your motor specs etc. go plug the numbers into any of the turbo graphs and your in business!
@Slysdexia26 жыл бұрын
They're woefully optimistic about power numbers, that's for sure.
@MJTAUTOMOTIVE7 жыл бұрын
Hi Brett, Awesome clip as always, But you could of drawn your diagram on plain piece of paper. I know Garret probably sponsor's you but you should have just put a sticker on the white board. It would have made it easier to read. Cheers.
Somebody needs a refresher on their thermodynamics
@user-kr2nv3jx5e7 жыл бұрын
IVE BEEN WONDERING WTF THAT SHIT MEANT THANK YOU
@Mach10487 жыл бұрын
Either I'm an idiot, or I'm looking at this the wrong way. Isn't "reading" that map like looking at a Contour map? I'm just reading that like I'd read a map of an area, so the less contour lines the easier it is to walk along. Or in this case, the less contour lines, the more efficiently your turbo will be working inside a defined area?
@rabidu2b7 жыл бұрын
You want the air flow to be in that center island were the efficiency is best and never outside the map. However that isn't easy. It has to do with the size of the engine, rpm, boost level, and few other things like volumetric efficiency.
@Mach10487 жыл бұрын
Ok, so I've kinda got that. Can the other side of the Turbo be mapped as well? Map how effective the Impeller is? And can you then look at both of the maps and work out the best impeller for the best compressor for the application you're looking for? I think I need to find a good book.
@rabidu2b7 жыл бұрын
Yes but it might only be a flow chart. Look at garrett turbo website and their turbos have maps.
@ryboodle7 жыл бұрын
that is a 3 cylinder turbo manifold Mira turbo????
@cryptoalien69087 жыл бұрын
If only I could BOOST one of muh rides... Maybe one day.......
@chargersgobolts20107 жыл бұрын
What turbo would I need for my 2003 Dodge ram 1500 5.7L hemi engine with 228,000 miles
@danielnapast49557 жыл бұрын
Jose Luis Ramos Keep it as is, it doesn't have much life left in it and adding a turbo would only reduce its life significantly.
@mituc7 жыл бұрын
You can go from any decent size such as a 73mm turbo to a 2x90+mm setup :)
@chargersgobolts20107 жыл бұрын
Daniel Napast that's the point of my question ik most hemi's last between 200,000 to 300,000 and I want to test what might make it faster strong with a bit more torque so when I drop in the new engine ik what setup I can put in without destroying it this is the first engine and I plan on making the second engine last as long thanks.
@boostedbuiltgarage7 жыл бұрын
Jose Luis Ramos Td04 will be fine mate😉😂
@patw52pb17 жыл бұрын
+Jose Luis Ramos Try this... garrett.honeywell.com/ www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/boostadviser
@xmanguy947 жыл бұрын
yay.
@zjjl917 жыл бұрын
how is 2 or 2.5 a ratio? ratios are expressed as 1:1 no?
@spud42427 жыл бұрын
2:1 or 2.5:1 he just left the compare to 1 bit as assumed...
@zjjl917 жыл бұрын
thats retarded thanx tho
@patw52pb17 жыл бұрын
No, it is always implied when working with ratios.
@umidusmanov45073 жыл бұрын
Sorry, but ther is a mistake) The lower is the efficiency, the less the gases will heat up
@Leofred20007 жыл бұрын
Still dont understand it
@PabloDeLafuria7 жыл бұрын
i didn't understand shit
@TurboDirectSA5 жыл бұрын
not much information there other than pressure ratio and air flow - the rest is ..... useless.
@Legend.Cam423 жыл бұрын
math is stupid
@savageboyarturo44577 жыл бұрын
Subarus make natural flutter sound tho? Just like sr20"s n so on... my tdo4 in my wrx works perfectly has normal flutter ... on my MBC to my Air fuel ratio ? With all the supporting mods You left a lot not explained
@Korokukanas7 жыл бұрын
Savage boy Arturo Factory Tuners don't care...Go Fast Brett does😄
@25LQW7 жыл бұрын
Flutter sound under acceleration.
@fredrenault90127 жыл бұрын
within the FIRST 10 COMMENTs
@AIRCOOLEDLIFE3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely USELESS 👎🏽👎🏽
@FernandoDIY7 жыл бұрын
in another words stop fuging around with turbos lets the experts do it
@BrodeyDoverosx7 жыл бұрын
Fernando C wow. I don't even know where to begin. How do you think the experts learned? They started as full level experts? No. There are smart people out there that have and can figure things out for themselves, people like you or sheep, are preventing innovation and creativity.
@FernandoDIY7 жыл бұрын
NOT BY WATCHING KZfaq ROFL .there's trade certificate involved mate
@BrodeyDoverosx7 жыл бұрын
Fernando C FYI, they don't teach compressor maps in engineering in Ontario. So yes, KZfaq isn't just a source of entertainment it is a source of education. Inquiring minds can now purchase books for the rest of the maths, like fuelling requirements. I wouldn't bother with a certificate, if you're intelligent enough you can figure it out on your own; I know I have and there are certainly smarter people out there.
@gearhead_james7 жыл бұрын
Never really thought about the calculations behind this sort of thing. Really cool video :)