Hope this helps to resolve things for you!

Awesome!!! Did you do their Flip Kit option on the drag link? If so, then yes the raised track bar bracket (axle side) is a must with flips.

Platinum Off Road didn’t know teraflex did that option. Might have overlooked it or saw it but didn’t know what it meant but I do now. 👍🏻

Glad it helped Darian!

Thanks so much!

Thank you for the support and feedback!

First off thanks for finding us and checking out the video! Second, how did things go? Were you able to find resolution or insight to a potential issue?

@@PlatinumOffRoad it is at a four-wheel drive shop right now. I was supposed to hear from them Monday. I bought the traction bar bracket before I took it to them so they could install it. I have high hopes

@@clintmcjeepjunkie820 How did it turn out? Did it fix your issue?

@@clintmcjeepjunkie820 how did it go?

@@86gtocar after the drop bracket install and an alignment it drives great

Super happy to hear!!! That's exactly why we established this channel!

Thank you for the feedback and support!

You are absolutely right!! Typically flips are most beneficial when approaching that 4" lift range and above. Surprisingly many shops have come to life during the economic prosperity, but how many actually deserve your business is the real test. We hear horror stories that many new clients have come to us after a few local shops scratched their heads for weeks and only made the Jeeps worst. Good job on the correction Nonya!!!!

I have a 2 1/2 lift the draglink, trackbar and everything is basically new but factory parts. Would i need to get the flipped draglink?? I still have bad bump steer and no shops in my area can figure it out. I’ve been dealing with this problem for a year.

​@Reality-wb8of the DL, and TB need to be made to accommodate the lift. Stock OEM parts are not ideal Also have you replaced the Steering Stabilizer?

@@nonya6281 I replaced the stabilizer twice so you guys are right with DL & TB. I can see that they are not parallel so I’ll need to get a new flipped DL & TB. Thank you 🙏🏽

Thank you for the support!

Glad to help!

Thank you for your support and feedback!

Thanks for the support! So if it's the braking shake you described (especially if it's only during rapid braking), the front rotors need turned and some fresh pads to go along with that resurfacing. Steering geometry issues will be a hard shifting of the steering wheel when hitting a bump or rapid braking. This steering wheel shift will be directly related and associated with the frames positioning to the axle. In other words, the axle experiences a bump - it moves towards the frame... if you slam on the brakes, your frame drops down towards the axle. These will be one or two major changes in the frame to axle positioning; therefore your steering wheel will not shimmy or shake at this time. It will merely shift as the frame and axle positioning changes.

If you did the frame side drop, and now planning to flip the drag link (passenger side) .. you won't get the improvement as much as returning the frame same to factory and raising the axle side mount for the track bar (panhard) to best align with the drag link flip. Pretty much what spurred me to make this exact video. My situation in this video was from that experience, and this video shows how I corrected it.

The whole parallel rule is true... to a degree. The TJ and XJ steering used a Y-link system. In these cases, yes all we can do is parallel them. The JKs moved to the full tie rod cross over and provided a wider axle and frame.. allowing us to even more perfect the geometry changes of a lifted Jeep. To run by the whole parallel rule is good if that's all you can do with the Jeep, however to even more greatly improve the ride quality... align the two on the same plane and just experience the difference. It's nothing I try and sell or convince to folks. The proof is in the pudding per se and yes there is a major gain in ride control and quality when aligning the planes vs just merely getting them to run parallel. Draw it out on paper with a protractor and find the conflicting radius with the parallel setup... then do the same with a setup that aligns the planes and you'll see it plain as day.

@@PlatinumOffRoad Where did you find the waterfall in the opening scene?

@@PlatinumOffRoad "JK messed it up so now we have to do more work" 🤪

Synergy weld on kit for the axle and the Rubicon Express was the frame side that we ended up merely keeping on for added support to the factory position. The Synergy was the one that we actually used for geometry function.

Hey sorry for the late discovery. So to flip on the knuckle side and keep the pitman, along with the existing axle side relocation bracket, spells disaster. Kill the axle side bracket and get a new weld on that raises the track bar to match up with the drag link flip. Remove the pitman arm and go back with factory and it will drive like a dream.

No need for a flip. When you jump into the 4"+ levels is when you really start to notice the need.

We noticed with lower grade drag links and especially factory units, that this happens pretty much every time. Please NOTE, there are many theories out there! Here's our throw at it based on experience, measurements and quality check to many of our clients' and personal rigs: There's three key moving parts that could initially allow for displacement - two ends of the drag link and the gear box (if you wheel pretty hard). As the ends wear down, they start off needing excessive force to make them a new home or slop, but when doing on-road driving they stay in place pretty well wherever they rest. I've noticed higher end drag links won't do this as much, so we can certainly assume it's commonly somewhere in the ends. The gear box - I've noticed on a few gear boxes that we tightened up on the adjustment shaft, they tend to stay straighter after a day of abuse. Does this mean the movement is pinned to the gear box? Other possibility! Other theories are changed caster angles if a spring comes out of place, or bent components such as a tie rod, drag link, or even track bar. Track bars can also shift within their bolted position and even a single millimeter and offset a steering wheel. If this is the case get a slightly larger diameter bolt at the end(s) of the track bar.. you'd be amazed at how much room OE bolts leave in that track bar connection. We also have proven in house that Jeeps with all heim joints control arms like RockKrawler and many others with soft internal heims, have seen the steering wheel shift on every trip out too. If you lay under a Jeep with such suspension, you will see how much the arm ends allow for movement within themselves as a friend gets on and off the brakes. (Don't lay directly under the Jeep! Lol) These joints need CONSTANT maintenance and eventually get so dry and worn out, caster angles change with even heavy road bumps. Hope this helps and sorry we cannot say "This is exactly the problem!!" With proven evidence for every Jeep we've seen this on.

Depending on how much lift you have and geometry of the items. Many times lift kits come with brackets and steering correction components and actually complicate matters (....ie: Rough Country)

Good question! So at one point many years back, Jeep builders always said to focus on making drag link and track bar parallel, but if you imagine their point of pivot and the radius each one will follow.. that is the cause for bumpsteer. Two parallel lines with different mounting points and different lengths, will follow conflicting radius flows.. which is still bumpsteer. It's ideal to have the track bar and drag link mount *exactly* at the same point or plane on each end. Due to how everything is located under the Jeep, that's impossible.. the best set up system will have a track bar that's the same length of the drag link and mounted on the same horizontal plane at each end. Many cases the track bar has to be set outside of the frame for this length to be achieved. Most fabricated race rigs will do this if you look closely. Daily street rigs, not too often.

What model Jeep are you dealing with? Typically, you won't flip the drag link and Rais the track bar's position until over 4" of lift on a JK. The JL's won't need them till closer to 5"+. The JL axles are just a tad wider, and this provides a wider radius angle that the axle will follow through during a bump. If you're not far from north Texas, bring it to us. We actually get about a dozen or more Jeeps each year, hauled in to see us each year, all finding us from KZfaq and expressing your exact frustration with local shops. There is other factors to be considered, but I'd have to see the Jeep and feel what it's doing.

@@PlatinumOffRoad thanks for replying back. 2014 sport wrangler 2 door very basic I have roll up windows. Found out my caster was off by 2 degrees so I installed control arm relocation brackets and caster is at 5 degrees now and WAY BETTER, I’ll replace all my bushings but by control arms next year. I was told I might need longer sway bars cause of the 2.5 lift 🤷🏽‍♂️ oh and adjustment shocks for a smoother ride. Any other suggestions for the rear end cause that still feels loose, floaty, bumpy?? I have never shit driven my jeep it’s just a pimp jeep has 182,000km around 150,000 miles I do have 22x10 rims

Never put a dropped pitman on a crossover drag link system. The loss of strength and failure to truly tend to geometry changes, is a complete waste of time and money. We have a pile of dropped pitmans we've removed when correcting steering geometry.

Harsh angle drag links will inevitably have bumpsteer. That's just the radius that it will flow through. At some point you need to do a drag link flip, or dropped pitman arm. It just depends on what is out there for the model Jeep. If you don't have a track bar, due to the leafs, then a QUALITY dropped pitman will do you well.

The Rubicon Express kit just requires a hole to be drilled on the knuckle side... Believe it's a 7/8". They supply a tapered insert that expands as you tighten down on the nut. As for the pitman arm side, it does require a tapered drill that we do by hand. It's not fun by all means. It's to alow the larger drag link end to go deeper into the pitman arm hole and the castle nut to accept the cotter pin. I know the earlier instructions mentioned this step and the exact tapered drill to get. The more recent instructions may claim it works without having to open up the pitman arm hole, but just from our experience, we still have to bore it out a little.

Years of fab work leads to having a ton of jack stands in all sizes. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Correct... this video is all about the front geometry. A rear axle hitting a bump will cause frontal load again to a minor degree, but yes the video was ultimately about getting front steering and drag link geometries in line!

You know what Jano! We have a Subi nut in our crew... I don't see why not! Any topic or idea?

Hahaha yeah, after building Jeeps for nearly 2 decades... I've learned "kits" have the primary items, and supplementary pieces to address other needs, but not actually fulfilling those needs. WHY? Because then the complete and functional kit, would be outrageously priced and scare off many potential sales. So manufacturers give you JUST enough to survive, be happy, but yet want more. It's all about sales! When we line up a build, I foretell all these actual NEEDS and keep the whole process transparent.

At a minimum, run the Fox 2.0 Performance. Bilstein set you mentioned are a longer version of factory. Many shops sell them because they're longer for the lift and a step up from the super cheap and squishy soft base line shocks out there. Not to mention an easier sale, because the price... but I can not tell you how many sets of the Bilstein 5100 we rip off for being a very soft and unstable ride... especially with the added weight of mods, over stock. Trust me. Spend the extra money and get the Fox Performance.. come back and thank me later!

Truth. And frame rebounds over each bump. Ultimately both have a shared relationship in the movement. Thats why the steering will actually get pushed and pulled; steering wheel left and right.

Basic geometry is at play with any steering setup. Not sure where a design of track bar or drag link has any point in the matter of a Point A to Point B concept. The conflicting radius path of the track bar and the drag link is what causes bumpsteer. The track bar is frame mounted which means it will dominate the battle between the two radius. The steering will have to conform to the drag link radius and ultimately move all steering linkage (bumpsteer). It has nothing to do with a product having no bends, one bend or five bends.. it's all about the radius path. You can take a straight component and a s-curve component, mount them in the exact positions and get the exact same result because you never corrected the radius path. This video was focused on fixing bumpsteer by repositioning the radius paths through the product mounting points = Basic geometry. Feel free to use whatever product you want or kit.. in the end basic geometry is either set up to the best possible positions for the vehicle or its not. Bumpsteer will exist, or it will not. We regularly fix it with a variety of brands and designs by means of this information and that's how I know the basic geometry in this tutorial video works.

Lol understandable. Definitely meant to explain things more than a How-To. We tried to give notice to that in the description, but I highly doubt many people read that anyways. If you've experienced any issues with a drag link flip or track bar relocation, the content may be more valuable.

@@PlatinumOffRoad yes I actually learned from it. Some people just dont appreciate learning or haven't needed to learn it yet

Ha... non taken! And here's why: I know that steering stabilizers have their place and often the need to reduce road dampening comes with other geometry factors outside of any steering geometry mentioned in this video. But since you brought it up.. steering dampeners are helpful when leverage is increased against the steering system (ie: wheel offset or use of wheel spacers). Road bumps become more erratic as you increase pull or leverage on the steering. If you hit a bump at 70mph while running a wheel with positive offset, the vehicle handles that bump completely different than someone running wheels with minor negative offset (-6mm or -12mm) and even more contrast handling of an even extreme neg. offset wheel such as a -32mm beadlock or running 1.5" wheel spacers. Try all these various wheel combos out on the same exact Jeep with the same stabilizer(s) and you will see what I'm talking about. I build Jeeps with all different arrangements of wheel offsets and steering stabilizers and have had enough experience to make these statements as proven results Stabilizers help reduce the acute force on the steering components and overall system... nothing to affect geometry... and especially geometry mentioned in this video. Not sure why they were even brought up...? The Jeep at the time of the video had -6mm offset wheels AND 1.5" wheel spacers. After tossing the spacers and moving to a -12mm wheel, the dual stabilizers came off and back to a single if that makes you feel better.. again it's all based on resistance and what each Jeep needs... to bicker over a dual kit is kind of like ridiculing someone running a Fox ATS stabilizer because it truly adds more resistance to combat acute road bump forces. They (stabilizers of any or all sorts) do work when you have a need for them based on the above reasons.

LMAO good one Russell! Did you even think before writing that attempt to show out? While Platinum already summed it up with the purpose of any stabilizer, the Jeep world is full of geniuses with more opinions than sense and speak without reasoning first. Im sure youre the guy at the Jeep meets trashing another rigs while your $40 rock lights are flashing away at the top of your buddy's 285s squeezed under his XJ that you just stacked on! SMH Cool guy!!