Thanks m8 :)

Well yeah but if you’re trying to make a tier list this is irrelevant

I agree with you chief. Her availability and versatility and combat performance makes her best in game to me too

Being A tier at a lot of things and low S in many =/= best unit in the game. Hortensia has two of the most valuable passives for general play, 1 lets her get increased staff range on all heals, restore, warp, rewarp, the other gives her a 20-35% chance to conserve gold/staff uses on a flying class and she can use fortify which Chloe cannot on a fast class. Hort can uniquely reset her Celica build in a single fortify use while Chloe cannot do this, so the uptime of her Seraphim use is near 100%, especially if you dance her after fortifying. She can function as a bonded shield damage unit just by using her and her passive slots are largely optional instead of needing a lot of early training/specific passives to run. Early Chloe can carry but it costs resources/investment and ultimately is a little worse than Pandreo on MK/Griffin, or Anna on these things. Pandreo is more free to run and is better for less effort.

@@IcedCoffeeGaming I really think you’re overrating hortensia here, probably due to your insanely difficult master run (like seriously idk how you even do it). While her staff utility is good no matter what run you do, her combat is not. She IS fast and she does have high Dex, but her magic is absolute shit. Like it’s Boucheron strength levels of bad. In a run where no one can damage fix, no one can speed fix, etc,… she’s very good due to everything her personal class offers and her innate high speed. What I think we need to take into account though is that when other units who are less fast or have hit issues (like Ivy) can get these fixed, and then they just outclass her (in combat, not utility). Chloé mage knight with levin sword will outclass hortensia’s damage. Also, I’ve never, ever seen her be able to one round with an non-forged tome. I always promote her immediately but unless she is actively being fed kills, she doesn’t one round. Unless you give her magic stat boosters, she doesn’t one round. Now we’re just looking at two sides of a coin: do you prefer a unit with bad speed but high damage, or a unit with high speed but low damage? Imo, speed is much easier to fix without stat boosters. If you want to use Ivy, give her speed+ and speedtaker, any emblem you want and she’s good. Like really good. On the other hand, you NEED celica for hortensia to one round, but at that point (chapter 21, after celica is back) Ivy will also one round, probably more consistently, with celica. When you were talking about hortensia I found it weird how much you focussed on “when she gets celica” “when you use seraphim” and such. Yes that’s a great build, but that’s just celica. Most units can do that with celica. Yes, she can reset celica with fortify (that is if you have 6 units ready to be healed at all times), but other units can one round without seraphim… and imo that’s better. Mind you I’m not arguing about how good she is when there is no resources to give, I’m in no doubt she’s the best unit in the game in your challenge, but here… second place? I highly doubt it.

Now the real question is, is it there on accident, or on porpoise? 🐬

may beh

Chain guards are amazing and I think you could utilize them more. It’s free 5 EXP and allows for stuff like Louis tanking enemy mages with pure water + javelin. Framme can snowball really well cause of her really good growths. She has bad bases but that’s honestly patched up very easily. Already I have a Framme with 10 Atk/Mag before Chapter 10 and she’s doing pretty decent damage against Mages and Archers with a Steel Art. And if you really need levels just slap a Micaiah on her or position Alear to where she can get the +3 damage.

Ya I think it's worth trying out chain guard more/ engaging more with different game mechanics. I think my last play through on hard and so fsr this one haven't even used a pure water. ( so far push range unit and Chloé to kill/bait mages before bringing in Louis) I may be a bit late to try using it this time around because I just got to brodia and she's still level 2. I guess time will tell if my playstle can get me through the tougher missions.

Starsphere especially affects early recruits and units with an even statline. And Enchanter with Food Surge also especially affects characters that fit the Vantage/Reprisal/Wrath buildline. Not sure if it's enough for any unit to actually change their ranking though. And beyond that and what you already mentioned, I think everyone gets better by more or less the same amount.

The main appeal of bouch is his absurd build so realistically you are giving him the fattest great weapon you got since pretty much the entire cast except him gets doubled when using a great weapon but he doesn’t. The extra might from forged great weapons usually out does the damage from doubling normally as well.

preach

Yes

Thanks for the answer. Although I agree that her base speed is really good, I find her base magic and the limitation in tome ranks a little too iffy for a dps That said i've never tried Celica on her so maybe echo is actually the missing piece I lacked

I think phys Chloe is more of an A tier role for her tbh, her best/most optimal thing is: Chicken with a Levin (Cooking with lightning) early Sword Power 2-3 Horse w/Hat with a Levin and early Sword Power 2-3 On Phys, if you level Rosado on Wyvern he has similar stats to Chloe, my big issue with late joiners in Engage is that by the time they join you often have a full team. If Rosado joined earlier I would think he is a potential S tier unit, but you get him after getting most of the best units in the game for several mainline chapters/paralogues. Stats-wise you are correct in your assessment of his performance on phys Wyvern, and if you run him on Axe power with a light axe like killer axe or Noatun, he could easily 1 round/off tank well. The real thing he is lacking is he needs trained and joins at level 17 around a time in the game where most of your units will be level 25+ so he has to catch up to the hard carries. Middlegame deploy slots tend to be 9-10 so there is a lot of competition for deploy slots. Generally before you get Rosado these things can or will be completed: Lucina paralogue, Lyn Paralogue, Ike Paralogue, Byleth Paralogue, possibly a skirmish, possibly Corrin Paralogue. Completing these tends to leave you with level 20-25 units so Goldmary/Rosado/Saphir/Lindon have to catch up to your team as they join, statistically they have potential, but leveling them is not free and costs a deploy slot/slows you down directly.

​@@IcedCoffeeGaming but does that makes him fall of two entire tiers ? even worse than Goldmary, Saphir and Mauvier and the bottom 4 unit of the game ? A few of paralogues you have listed can be kept to trained him. Yes you have to plan on using him. I know it's important that a unit doesn't take a huge lot of ressources to be viable. But there is nothing that say that you can't plan ahead to use a unit. With this logic, all characters than join after him are also bad. The fact that he joins late makes him bad, not because of the actual game, but because nobody cared to use him. I was one of them before, then i tested him on different build and he was good. Magic is better than physical, i think we agree on that, so a better physical chloe will always be worse than the actual chloe, but not that worse.

​@@deklou-l471 Those stats for Rosado at IL 30 don't match where he actually should be. At join time, Rosado gains exp as if he's a unit who has leveled up 19 times in total. In other words, he gains the same exp as if you took Alear from 1->20. Alternatively, he gains the same exp as if you took Alear from 1->10, promoted, and then 1->11. Or to match Rosado's case, if you took Alear from 1->18, promoted, and then leveled 1->3. (I have always hated how internal level is described by players and wish the game just showed total level on units as [1 + number of times leveled up], but I digress). From reading the Veyle Bot channel, it seems doing 'e rosado 3/13 wyvern knight -fixed' will give Rosado 12 level ups (the bot is treating the 3/13 to mean reclassed at 3, leveled to 13). That means he's leveled up 19 + 12 = 31 times total. You should be looking at a 10/20/4 Chloe to compare to the same level Rosado. (This is for Wyvern Knight) In which case... Chloe has -2 HP, -1 Str, +2 Mag, +2 Dex, +2 Spd, -1 Def, +7 Lck, with the same Res and Bld. For the rest of the game, Chloe is usually -1 HP and at most -4 Str. I do think Rosado is better than most give him credit for when treated as a growths/project unit, but he joins so late and you're not given free deploy slots like you are for Veyle and Mauvier.

​@@End3r. So internal level is completly useless when evaluating a unit ? Or can we start from IL to deduce his true level ? Also does that means Chloe starts at level 6 but gains xp as a level 1 unit ?

@@deklou-l471 No, it's not useless. The data mined 'internal level' that everyone is referring to is the number of level ups for a unit not displayed in their current level. It's not actually their 'real level'. Internal level is a confusing name for it. Chloe is recruited with 'internal level 0' but level 6 => true level is 6. Kagetsu is recruited with 'internal level 15' but level 1 Swordmaster => true level is 16. Rosado is recruited with 'internal level 17' but level 3 Wyvern => true level is 20. Where 'true level' here means they gain exp as if they were that level.

I can't take it down, I leave it on videos now because I can't stop!

"See? I told you Anna makes you very little gold in a playthrough!" - Reddit

Unless you've got food.allergies I guess

Other people are wrong

cause she’s timidrra, obviously

It's because of two things: 1) She joins with only 5 BLD and heavy lances. She feels AWFUL on her join chapter unless you immediately give her a lighter weapon, in which case she immediately pops off (forged steel lance or fensalir works well). Since first impressions matter, most people just bench her and call her bad. This problem is later rectified as she has very good BLD growth. 2) She isn't super insane unless you go very specific builds that capitalize off her strengths. If you build her wrong, she isn't that great. The VAST majority of tier lists are based off of limited-to-zero research and a single playthrough. I've watched a lot of tierlists where they said they just benched her immediately and that she was bad. In other words, they didn't give her a proper chance.

And I’m glad I did use her

You definitely need to have a high IQ to use Timerra correctly. I wish more people watched your stuff, they'd learn the Engage meta very quickly if they did but instead we have a slew of bad tier lists from the first 2 months of the games release when people were still treating this game like traditional Fire Emblem and not the unit builder it actually is.

Tall blonde and gorgeous

And funny​@@Willie_Pete_Was_Here

You can fix units so nothing can really be that bad thanks to engage rings/forges etc

He's gonna need ointment to recover from that burn

At the very least I wish they could just keep passives that they accumulated over playthroughs.

He is fast, can double, can attack with physical or magical well, can radiant bow, can levin sword, can be a hard carry if you want it

15 strength 6 build is soooo good

Prove she isn't.

TBH honest you could consider him A because he can player phase kill and tank a hit. I think Fogado is a little better due to him being "Horsed up" and "fast boi"

Clearly you don't get the appeal of sad sopping wet cats

She is still strong enough to hard carry with some resources and has really strong builds that can do well. She also uniquely has flying tomes

She's the best unit in the game

Hullo :)