I really felt the pain of Mary's father when describing her bruises. My daughter was married 15 months before I realized there was a problem in her marriage. We were shopping for new clothes to wear to a friends wedding, and I accidentally walked in on her in the changingroom, I actually cried out when I saw her body, and bruises. She admitted to me right there that her husband had been beating her. She was ashamed, and wondered if she was the problem. We totally loved her husband, and we were shocked to say the least! She had dated him for 2 years, but never lived with him before the marriage. She said he had never hit her before marriage. Our proudest moment of our daughter's life came when she left the marriage. It took therapy for her to realize it was not her fault, and he would never stop. Thankfully, there were no children.

A battered woman can only take so much. Mary Winkler is not evil, she just snapped.

Her attorney who got her her kids back after the trial is a badass

This lady is a classic example of battered, tortured woman...has gotten so used to abuse, she seems to often feel guilty and not able to put things in perspective

She not only comes off as traumatized but maybe also medicated or dissociating, I feel for her 💔

You'll never understand why or how someone could do this until you've been in their place.

I so identify with this precious lady. I was courted by a saint; I married the devil. I divorced and left.

A woman may endure the "unendurable" from a man, but when the life of her child is threatened by that man, an unprecedented power is unleashed in her that nobody messes with.

I’m so glad the jury believed her. So sad about the children

I think a lot of her comments ring true of someone in an abusive relationship. You are never allowed to speak freely, make decisions, and live walking on egg shells. Her vagueness could relate to lapses in memory because of the trauma she was living in, and not always having a reasonable explanation for everything. Honestly unless you have lived in this hostile environment it is hard to relate to what truly happens to people living in this amount of toxicity

I was married to a monster just like him. I completely understand her pain. It's very sad. I finally got out, thank God!

I have gone through a marriage like this with my first husband. I escaped, but it was hard. Watching her still not be able to talk about things unless prompted just slays me.

This poor lady is extremely traumatized. In this interview, she showed more compassion for her abuser than she did for herself- a husband who beat her, sexually abused her, raged at her, abused her daughters, and verbally abused her- all while PRETENDING to love Jesus as a local pastor 🤮.

She says ‘yes but’ a lot and then proceeds to still,be trying to explain his behavior. This is very clearly abuse. I’ve done the same thing in an abusive relationship and afterwards. It takes a long time to heal and change those behaviors.

I filed for divorce after trying to push my husband down the stairs. I knew I was very close to killing him after years of mental abuse. The last straw was when he came home and said hello to one child but not the other one because he thought that child was my favorite. That son busted out crying, I knew then I had to get us out of it. In my mind, fine abuse me but not my children. I believe her because I have made the same comments "I failed him", again putting the guilt on yourself for their issues.

From a legal standpoint it’s amazing she got off as easily as she did. There’s lots of women in prison for killing husbands that are looking at this going huh?

She still looked stoic, she still has most of the blank look still on her face, at the time of this interview. 16 years later.... I do hope she is completely healed. Lots of love any woman reading this, and in a similar situation.... please find the strength to leave. You are so much better than what is happening to you. You dont deserve any of this.

My husband never hit or threatened me, but he was very domineering, derisive and critical. I can certainly relate to her constant efforts to try to figure out how to please him. It is impossible. These types cannot be pleased. They do not even want to be happy.

She did get custody of all three kids. Good for her!

If you bully, molest, beat, mentally and physically abuse somebody long enough, they will strike back at some point. This woman had no other option than to free herself from the torture and humiliation inflicted by her husband. I am glad that her sentence was light. Lesson to all wife, child and animal abusers and beaters out there.....

She still looks terrified. Praying she gets the help that she needs

My ex husband abused me for 12 years and even though Mary is odd and hard to understand in this interview I believe her because I am sure I sounded odd and hard to understand once finally came out of my closet about the abuse. It’s difficult once you finally feel safe and confident to tell your story and I’d be lying if I said I never thought of killing my husband. I never had a plan to kill him because I am not a killer and I’d never kill my childrens father, I’d like to think that would never kill anyone especially someone I loved but I think God everyday that he did leave me for another woman he met at work because now that I am thinking more clear headed and free I know myself and him are lucky that he is still alive today. What I am saying is that now I realize how mentally unstable being in a abusive relationship can be, I was so emotionally and physically worn out that I wouldn’t put it past myself that at that time I could’ve easily killed him. There were days that I was exhausted and extremely dazed and confused I could’ve killed him and not know what I was doing or even remembered what I had done after the fact. I feel bad for people who have lost their lives and their families but I also feel bad for people in prison who took the life of an abusive spouse because the human mind and body can only take so much abuse and stress before they snap and it’s fight or flight. What tugs at my heart the most is that their are probably so many black woman in prison for killing their abusers who will never get the chance to have a con considerate jury like Mary got given. God be with those who are imprisoned today for defending themselves against their abusers and wonder, should I have laid down let them kill me and I’d be free or dead right now? If you’re in an abusive relationship tell somebody, write it down, take pictures and videos keep track of every instant so you will have proof one day because it may be yours or someone else’s last day. If we have the strength to stand up against abuse maybe they’ll think twice before disrespecting a human that way! I still have ptsd and nightmares from the years with my abusers.

I was born and raised here in McNairy County. I now advocate for ALL Crimes Against Children, Domestic Abuse, Exploitation, Trafficking, Missing, and Constitutional and Civil Rights. I was present during the trial. Mary is one of the many reasons why I do what I do.

Being a Pastor couldn't be an assurance that he is not evil. Hahaha. I believe Mary!

We are looking at temporary insanity here. In a case like this everything becomes a blur from yrs of abuse, and I think the fact that he had demonstrated that he could actually smother their child is what just pushed her over the edge. A person who is shy and does not verbally express how they are suffering is a prime candidate for them to flip out. And being a preachers wife, puts them under extreme pressure, of many kinds, on the wife.

I remember this when I was younger. This shook west TN. No one should ever have to endure this. Bless her.

She shot him BECAUSE SHE FEARED FOR HER CHILD'S LIFE!!! A mother's instinct to guard her child is REAL!

Mary is not a bad mother, she protect her kids to that evil man.

Shame on the Winklers for raising such a narcissistic sociopath. They are enabling him after his death. This is perfect example of how abuse victims go on to be traumatized.

I feel so bad that she thought that she could inform her husband how worn out she was. He wouldn't have cared. He wouldn't be bothered... abusers abuse because they don't care about you

Mary wasn’t very explicit in her trying to describe all what happened! I think she just absolutely blanked out because of her fear and weariness!

This is what disassociating looks like when you have PTSD.

She needed to stand up for herself and her daughter. She knew in her gut after he smothered the baby.

My heart breaks for Mary. Yes, some of her answers are vague, but that is due to multiple things. She's clearly mentally traumatized by Years of mental and physical abuse from her husband, the shame and guilt she was still feeling, and the stigma of being a Christian woman in the south. I live near selmer, so I'm very familiar with the Christian upbringing around here. A lot of things are just supposed to remain unspoken. If it's unpleasant, you don't speak of it to others. It's the woman's place to hold it all together and make it look perfect. It's unhealthy but that's how it is, especially 15-20 years ago when this happened. This is a woman who still is making excuses for her abusive husband. I hope that she has been able to get help since this happened and is leaving a peaceful happy life somewhere.

Classic communal narcissist and narcissistic abuse. My heart goes out to her and the family. Killing still not justified. Thank you for sharing this.

I have been in this situation before and I had no support or help. I didn't know who to turn to and I was afraid no one would believe me. I suffered terrible anxiety and depression and I finally got away, but I can definitely understand how women could be brought to this. It's terribly underinvestigated and this kind of abuse needs to be taken seriously and investigated more. There are far too many people in relationships who are abused and scared because they have nowhere to go!

Some pastors abuse their spouses physically, emotionally, sexually, spiritually and financially and no one in their church believes them or tells them for forgive, have patience or love them harder and they will be rewarded .

I am fully sympathetic to Matthew's parents/mother for losing their child. However, when she told Mary that she never apologized for killing their son or the girl's their dad, I thought--If Mary's dad saw she was a "very abused wife", did Mathew's mother not see it also? Surely, they saw tons of red flags and signs. Did Matthew's parents apologize to Mary for what their son did to her? Or aologize to the girls for how their son abused their mother? Those girls saw more than the night Mary killed Matthew. Children of domestic violence suffer a great deal. Matthew's parents knew their son and they knew what he was capable of. Other people were aware of his raging temper. One of the reasons domestic violence is so very difficult and the abuser lacks accountability and the person abused feels they have no one to turn to, is very sadly due to in some situations, the family members excuse the abusive behavior and look the other way. I am very happy to hear Mary regained custody of her children! I pray life is good to them going forward from all of this. My opinion, I do think Mary had planned to kill him. She may have felt that was the only way she could protect herself and her girls. She appears very abused and tramatized. Matthew may have threatened if she leaves him he will find her and kill her and the girls as well as anyone who helps her. Sounds far fetched however, that kind of threat is thrown about by many abusers and the victim truly believes it. Very tragically those kind of things have indeed occurred.

I remember when this happened when I was young. I always felt so bad for this woman. Mary had to go thru so much and for so long in silence. People from where I’m from, think just because your a pastor, you do no wrong. I hope she was able to build a life for herself and her kids.

Nobody can understand what she was talking about when she talked about breaking that visor in her car and being terrified unless you have lived with a monster! I have done that! I grew up like that! It is horrifying and you are never the same! That attorney/media person obviously NEVER HAS!!!

As a pastor he should never abuse . He should be kind and love his wife.

She reached her pain threshold, grabbed the gun so he would listen and take her seriously… What’s bad is that he would never do so, so she probably thought this was her only option when he threatened her… and the baby… Women will lose their total $h*t if someone were to threaten the life of their child!

Yes you can tell she’s been abused badly! She can’t even see her husband covering the nose & mouth of her baby ... was him trying to kill the baby or maybe she was so used to it she knew he was trying to shock her..... there’s nothing she could of said to him that would of changed anything.

I totally understand her......it resonates....had similar. I can tell that Oprah clearly doesn't understand what these crazy dynamics feel like. its absolute craziness. There are no logical conversations to be had when these dynamics exist. They have NO desire to interact or resolve anything.....they only want power and control

I've seen my own father put his hand over my baby nephew's mouth & pinch his nose in a fit of rage for waking my dad up with his crying. It looked to me like he was trying to suffocate him or at least teach him not to cry or else. I know I was afraid my dad would kill him in a fit of rage and had to run out of the room calling for my youngest sister who took the baby into her bed. Likely this woman felt the same way which pushed her over the edge. The baby's mother was in Hawaii on her honeymoon & my mom was in a mental institution having electroshock treatments. It affected me so much that I could never stay at the family home ever again!

I fully believe her. I’m not saying he deserved it, but he definitely got what was coming to him.

I always feel that women are womens worst enemies. We have gone thru a lot of abuse from husbande, family, so called friends, supeervisors at work, etc, etc. Only the person that endures the abuse knows what is like on a daily basis. If I was to talk about my ordeals no one would believe me because I dealt with it and never told anyone. The thought of killing someone that abuses you crosses everybodys mind when you find yourself alone and powerless against the stronger one. Lets stop the hipocresy and pretending we are better than her. Church men and women are human beings w the same passions and feelings as non church goers. Thats why we see child molesters ,(pastors, priests) wife batters, etc. Dont cast the first stone , it might ricochet bk to you. Lord have mercy.

You can tell it's hard for her to talk about, because she's such a soft spoken laid back woman

I love these classic episodes.

This interview is so frustrating. The description of that day as well as her experience of abuse with him is so vague.

The sexual humiliation can really mess you up to where you donr know who you are anymore and trying to please someone you love and that you think loves you with things that discusts you is traumatic . I see her desperation if what she says us true. It's usually a narcisist that pushes your limits . He sounds like a narcicist if this is all true.

She's so damaged she can't even make eye contact. Heartbreaking

Its more than thirty years since I divorced my husband.I still have to have therapy for a few months at a time because my personality is so shaped by that life.

It’s so hard for her to live this again and relive the abuse

I hope she receives the healing she needs for herself and her children to stop this cycle of abuse. He targeted her children and we do not know the limits of his deviancy, sexually, physically, and emotionally. Her husbands abuse was familiar to her.

Apperantly Oprah doesn't now how abusive spouses are

She is making this up as she goes

it's very difficult for her to repeat all the terrible things she went through with her husband,so that makes her silent a lot and answer as if she made up a lie. she's not lying but she telling the truth

I've been a fan of Oprah since the beginning but in the first half she almost seems to have a smile behind her eyes? Is it just me?

This poor woman is still so traumatised at the time of this interview.

She just knew she couldn't go through anymore... She knew he had screwed her head up..... I blame the ABUSER

Since he left the gun in the closet in that condition, he was clearly a threat to his family. He was obviously a threat to his children. Who the hell suffocates their baby out, to get them back to sleep? That is insane and murderous. He threatened her, with "accidentally" shooting her, he was abusive to her, if she picked the gun up, in that condition, he was setting her up and she's lucky that she got to it first. She may have gotten away with involuntary manslaughter, not murder. Hope she got her kids back. Not cool for the grand kids to be raised by the parents who created her narcissistic, psychopathic husband.

I’ve been very involved in a church before and I’ve also been in abusive relationships and this is sounding very familiar. In both incidences, you do try very hard to ‘look’ like a perfect family and you do hide things from others because of embarrassment and shame.

The man that said she took his life… he took her life with the abuse and belittlement. She deserves her kids but I’m sure his parents have brainwashed them a bit. There is a lot of recovering there.

I can understand temporary insanity from years of abuse and I truly believe her. But damn woman divorce is a far better option than killing your husband.

It is so clear unless you've been in a relationship with this type of person you could never understand the torment and cruelty on all levels that these victims go through. A deeper dive needs to go into that to solve the mystery. I believe she did kill him but self defense (the straw that broke the camels back) Its sad it gets to this extreme level. What else is a person to do when their soul is being removed? Spiritual warfare at work

My heart goes to the wife.

I understand this woman completely. It’s hard for people to understand how these abusers can’t be reasoned with. I can feel her pain and I think she genuinely wanted to reason with him. It’s a very hard concept to understand unless you’ve had similar situations.

I believe her. I feel like Oprah is being…very… rude idk how to explain it

She said i held the gun in the heart of the moment, but he was asleep. There is something fishy about her

I understand Oprah has a job to do, and obviously she knew she would have to answer some harder questions that make her uncomfortable but you can see the pain. She’s a very dignified person

Oprah is a horrible person! Period! She never showed a moment of empathy to invite this woman to open up. As a victim of abuse herself she does a horrible job. Not the first time she’s come across cold and uncaring.

Came here after watching the Lifetime movie, "The Pastor's Wife". Rose McGowan really nailed the accent. Such a tragic case. 💔

As someone who has been in an abusive relationship many moons ago from the ages of 16 to 23 I can absolutely relate to this woman. You are backed into a corner, it wears you down and removes every ounce of self you have. Sometimes you just get pushed that far you snap - luckily when I snapped it wasn't a gun and I escaped with just a few good bruises.

Watching this years later I am shocked by the lack of any compassion or understanding of what kind of human this poor mother is. She is obviously not one to speak up, everyone says she submitted to him and thought this was her role as a mother. For all these women to judge her is appalling. The town was right. They knew him and they were part of his church community/ They knew his anger. They knew she would never stand up or try to shine. So these women believe she knew how to handle him or what to do. She told you and showed you who she is when she says it mattered what others thought and look what happened ..all the christians who judge little bitty her over the dominant male with a temper and obvious need to power. Good lord we know men do this often in families yet women still judge her. disgusting. So glad the community knew what was right and his parents should be ashamed of themselves for damaging the children bc they did nothing to help their son and his family. Shame caused this and is what everyone is putting on her. Always the weakest link.

Smothering the baby appears to have snapped her repressed fears into extreme reaction. I believe her. It's ashame she doesn't seem to function properly with cognitive processes which would lead a person to leave. Dependent and controlled I believe it never occurred to her to leave. Dead or not he likely greatly contributed to this extreme outcome. I'm also wondering how her husband's parents parented.

I understand, it’s terrible to be an abused woman but if your going to do an interview with Oprah to explain yourself, i think it would be best if you make sense about the whole event

Oprah Doesn’t GET IT! She’s not been around a violent narcissist controller. It’s easy for people who’ve been around these abusers to relate.

Dont think Oprah is too impressed with Mrs. Winkler.

This doesn't make a whole lotta sense.

I believe her too. People didn't lived with them. When he hurt the baby she snapped.

This had to have been one of Oprah’s hardest interviews. She definitely was using her reporting skills.

It always amuses me when a criminal who is a minister or a pastor is initially defined that way - as if committing a crime may not be true bc his occupation is connected to god. Or for him to be a victim is somehow so much worse. We all know that these ministers, cardinals etc who also happen to be violent, murderous, narcissistic or a paedophile think they can use their connection to the church to hide their crimes and who they really are. These people may in fact be the worst of the worst. I was so glad to hear Mary got her children back. I hope one day those grandparents realise who their son was.

This woman is definitely still traumatised because she’s can’t fully put into words what he did to her, because he did so much to her very soul.

I believed her when I followed the case but this interview makes me rethink, her account is not making sense and Oprah is saying somethings she should be explaining without being asked for details

Narcissistic abuse is hard to explain.

Poor woman. Genuinely lovely. And you just know she’s 💯 telling the truth.

She is lucky to be alive.

I am ten minutes into it and I can relate...She is so sweet and soft spoken I like how Oprah does not seem to 'judge her' we never know what goes on behind closed doors.

Sounds a lot like my ex. There was never a clear reason. Just would fly into a rage for days without a second thought. The only sure thing was that it was ALWAYS my fault.

These men look so good in public. My Dad was terribly verbally cruel to my mother, but NOBODY outside our immediate family ever saw it or knew about it. I loved my Dad, but I suffered terribly watching and hearing my Mom verbally beaten down do much. At 63 years of age I'm still struggling with the damage.

She doesn't remember much. She seems to be making it up as she goes along.

I absolutely feel Mary’s pain as a Childhood Sexual abuse/Physical abuse survivor I can totally relate… Ppl really do SNAP. It’s only so much abuse a person can take . It took years of Therapy & God that helped saved my life. I was angry as hell & even acted out in my teens & 20s

I believe everything Mary says and I really feel for her situation. I think Justice was served in her minimal sentence and I'm so glad she got her kids back! No good could come of putting her kids in foster care and her not seeing them again. Best of luck in the future Mary hope you're doing well:-)

Oprah Winfrey gave over her job to Dr. Phil. She is an amazing interviewer and spokes person. She was more skilled than Joan Rivers, Donahue, Heraldo, Jenny Jones. She was so much better than Nancy Grace and Barbra Walters. Oprah helped many people. These episodes are very old. If Oprah would of helped me as well,: hot damn because I was a true fan of her show, promoting public knowledge, awareness, non judgment and faith. I wish this spokes person can come back.

This lady is well reserved and decent 👌 she must have been pushed to the wall before she took the decision to eliminate her husband.

Tough interview. Like pulling teeth. I admire Oprah’s patience.

When I was arrested and charged, I was denied bail and told by my lawyers that if I did not plead guilty I could be sitting in jail waiting longer for a trial date than the amount of time that they were seeking and that I could be given twice the amount of time or more for not taking "responsibility " if found guilty at trial. So due to those circumstances, I pled guilty knowing that I was innocent, because I didn't want to sit in jail waiting longer for a trial date than the time they were seeking, especially when prison Conditions can be cruel and unusual and trial dates can be unreasonably delayed and convictions can be wrongful and appeals can be often denied. I pled guilty knowing I was innocent because I did not want to deal with the stress, fear, frustration, malice, or the confusion caused by systemic racism. I pled guilty knowing that Elizabeth May Terry (lizzie terry) made false allegations in order to steal twenty-three thousand dollars of furniture and electronics from me in retaliation for cheating with her sister As a victim of systemic racism you do not committ crimes, you just suffer the consequences of crimes like an innocent bystander. Systemic racism made me the victim look like the criminal and the actual criminal look like the victim. Even when you tell the truth they will make you out to to be the liar and then make the actual liar out to be the one telling the truth. They will pick sides without knowing the truth or without seeking the truth, and then concoct or make whatever side they think they can make look like the truth. I do not need anyone to tell me that I'm innocent when I know that I am innocent. The video proves I'm innocent. The same video that the judge refused to watch. I pled guilty knowing that I did not committ any offense, just to get out of jail.

I had an abusive partner for a few years, he was and still is so nice to people that it's hard for them to believe he is abusive even after separating. I have to deal with him and I have gone through so many similar events like that ones Mary went through, they are so good at making people believe that they would not do something like this.

If she killed him because of the money scam she had fallen for it must have been true of his temper and her fear of him. But it sounds like it was a long list of abuse and she just snapped. I hope she’s receiving counseling as well as the children.