I'm in Rochdale with a V2G charger from Indra, which I got as part of the OVO trial. I've now moved from V2G to Indra's V2H2G trial which can load match, discharge, export match etc.. happy to talk about my experience or show you the charger if you are interested

I have all the cool house stuff: solar, battery and heat pump. I'm in Colorado. A few days a year, we'll get very cold temperatures and snow. I'm likely to stay home. If the grid goes down, I will really want a 60 to 100 kWh battery for the heat pump until the grid comes back on or the snow melts off the panels.

V2G was the topic of my doctorate. Yes, V2G can be useful but it's no panaceia. When it's really needed the EVs tend to have low spare kWh as - there's not that much power about. Sell your kWh or use for driving tomorrow? Hm. There are lots of corner cases where V2G is attractive, but it fails to be an overall benefit ie might be sometimes tactically attractive, but overall - isn't a cure for any particular problem. And I looked at lots (105 simulated scenarios spanning 4.5+ billion realistic UK EV journeys and charging profiles). Well, someone had to do it. Beware claims that V2G can help battery life. The study stating that was not for a modern LFP battery (my choice) but looked at older chemistries which would be damaged by sitting too long @ 100% charge. V2G takes some kWh out; battery life at now say 80% SOC is better. BUT modern battery management systems know that - so as a routine won't charge over 80..85% (unless you ask for it). So the scenario is a bit... meh. Unrealistic today.

We've had V2G since 2019, it has now changed into V2H, its awesome !! Nissan Leaf 62 FTW!!

I have been on the Crowd Charge V2G/H trial but recently left the scheme. Others on the scheme report that V2G actually improves the condition of their battery. Instead of sitting charged up for long periods, the battery goes up and down in charge and this keeps both the HV and 12V charged improving reliability. Mine was remotely managed and I could control when the car was available and how much charge I was willing to sacrifice. When I joined the scheme home batteries were around 6k as a starting point. They have come down a lot now but having a battery on the driveway doing nothing seemed a no-brainer. Unfortunately, my charger died due to spider ingestion! So I now have a semi smart normal 7kW charger controlled by Octopus Intelligent Go. Feel free to ignore what I've said but be careful about the value of V2G/H, in my case I loved the fit and forget and the fact that it was linked to my solar so would use green energy in the day time and at time using offpeak cheap Octopus Go (my old tariff on V2G Trial).

I'm not having a go, but maybe you should disclose that you work for GivEnergy these days? I do agree that the cost of V2G chargers makes it unattractive at the moment. That's why I gave up on the idea for my Leaf. The vision for the future is that V2G should be everywhere. At home, at work and on the street, giving a gigantic distributed battery storage system. Cars are parking 90% of the time, after all. Amsterdam and Utrecht are/were running pilot projects, though it's gone a bit quiet on that front. Time will tell if it ever becomes economically attractive enough.

You are one of the best EV focused people on KZfaq. Brilliant. You bring reality to the topic, not blind faith & not total negativity. Well done.

I entirely agree with you. I have also looked and pondered this before buying my M3HSR and came to a similar conclusion. It would only be usefull in a very very small number of cases and for me I would still need at least a small home battery in addition. So ive opted for a much bigger home battery.

So many questions on this. I'm with you, the bureaucracy and delay before this happens and the eventual prices you'll get won't justify waiting.

Got Indra V2H system for Leaf installed for £1600. My calculation says payback in 1 year. Works really well for my wife’s Nissan Leaf 24kwh that is only used for school runs. (70% cycle a day, but so far Leafspy SoH hasn’t decreased, it actually increased by .5% over 7 months) Want to upgrade battery size? £13k for used 62 kWh Leaf. Can you buy 62 kWh home battery for £13k? The home battery argument is not ecologically sustainable: why not use the perfectly suitable asset sitting on the driveway? Why limit EV battery’s grid role to only be sinks? Sure, I agree waiting for this feature before buying EV doesn’t make sense. But don’t completely dismiss V2G.

One doesn't buy a Powerwall battery to provide power to the grid; but I'd love to use my EV as an extension to my Powerwall to provide even more kWh to my home when the sun don't shine ...

Hi sir 😊may God bless you and your family 🙏

Wholeheartly agree. Even getting a battery retrofit is cheaper than a V2G charger. And it has the benefit of working also when the car is away...

I think its the way in which its deployed. We have a Setec 6kw mobile power station for 2 years, and used via an auxilary input socket, that plugs into our Nissan Leaf, and we use it at home just like a generator when the house battery gets to low. It keeps us on cheap overnight energy, and if the grid goes down, we can use that energy to keep everything going. We use on camping trips and if and when a friend or one us has fallen short of getting home, roadside charging is made possible. But having a driveway helps. So yes I think its very useful as it also helps to keep the grid balanced. I have heard of fleet vehicles which benifit as those batteries being use at peak times, which would otherwise be sitting doing nothing.

Good thing to look at. 😊

I agree I've got a small Bluetti Power station need something bigger now so much more useful than a whole car. Charge at night on a cheap tarriff or small solar or even the car then use it about the house or garden say really handy

With the trend to working from home and also for retired people V2G makes a lot of sense. You would need to buy 6 - 8 static 10Kw batteries to match what you have in your mobile battery pack aka car. And from an environmental viewpoint 2 sets of batteries in your home and in your car is not good.

I’m a fan of yours, but I thought I should comment on this one. In your critique of V2G you failed to mention that because of the relatively low and constant wattage required whilst the car is plugged in, studies have shown V2G can improve battery life and longevity. Also you say that manufacturers won’t approve, however I believe that Nissan already do approve the use of V2G and it will not affect a Nissan warranty. I would finally add that all resources are finite, and believing that it’s ok for billions of people to own massive lithium car batteries AND massive lithium home batteries is the sort of mentality that has driven us to most of the problems we are facing right now. Just buy more stuff, simply can’t work anymore. Using one battery for more than one job simply makes sense. V2G makes sense and I hope that rationale will kick in at some point…??

Great video and giving me food for thought. I have been waiting for this for a long time but the technology it is very slow in coming. My thought was to buy an old electric car not to use but go on the drive as a battery. Let’s see if that can come soon. I have now decided to get a GivEnergy All In One 6kW - 13.5kW Battery and Gateway, what should I be looking to pay in the North West of England fully installed please.

I have giv 9.5 battery with east west aray. During the 3 winter months i normally get a flat battery late evening. Sometimes most of the day. Would be very handy to plug the car in to run the house till 12.30. Then charge everything up again on low rate. Still can’t justify spending 3k on another battery just for 3 months so if b2g was cheaper would be interested

The heater driver transistor circuit look like part of a transistor current mirror circuit that is probably used as a constant current source to regulate the heater output power so is constant across the battery voltage range to maintain constant sensativity for the VOC sensor.

There are a couple of features that would be useful V to L which means the car has a mains voltage socket/s available. Think charging stuff that isn't USB or power tools etc. and V to V for the equivalent of emergency jump start?spare fuel. V to G is such an unwieldy concept overall to make it viable for the reasons listed in the video. If you think the grid needs battery support then use domestic battery installations or install Grid Battery. Domestic battery installations make more sense in many ways because you don't need a garage or a driveway to keep the car in and they are nearly always connected to the grid.

V2L/V2H - definitely very useful for the occasional powercut & on the road, & no real excuse for any EV to not have it. V2G - meh.

Spot on mate

I'm with you on this one for people here in the UK, I can see V2H as backup could usefull but again not so much here in the UK where we have a reliable supply mostly.

Good points, agree static batteries are cost effective.

EVM, your point to not wait is a good one. The original Mini-E from 2009 was V2G capable, and a demonstration was done in New England in 2013. V2G is not coming to market quickly. However, V2H and V2L are attractive vehicle features, IMO. OEMs can provide V2L and V2H for very little cost, using a bi-directional version of the car's on-vehicle charger, instead of a separate inverter.

Not worth waiting for as Solar panels and home batteries are getting cheaper. Get the EV and save money on fuel and maintenance. If vehicle to grid arrives, this could be an interesting add on and could change how we use the grid and how we are billed!

Cheers EVM

I guess an analogy would be, a friend of mine who lives right out in the sticks and used to get regular blackouts. So he bought a diesel generator. Someone suggested he just get a 12v inverter and hook it up to his Discovery. So would you rather have your expensive ICE car running on the driveway with an inverter hooked up to the battery to run your loads in a blackout, or have a dedicated generator. In the odd blackout the 1st option is fairly viable, but for extended periods, why would you put that wear on your cars engine? I think there is potential for V2L but V2G is unnecessary for most use cases for exactly the reasons you pointed out.

Fully agree with the conclusions. The only interested party is grid operators. For vehicle manufacturers, customers, used car buyers it is an anti-feature. I can see this being useful for backup but then a simple 240V socket in the boot is enough. If I was to buy a used EV I would like to know if it was used for V2G.

Happy with my Indra V2G charger - part of a trial but still cost £1800 Have 59kWh leaf / solar panels / 15kWh battery but the V2G/H still gets a lot of use in the colder months via ground source heat pump - not on gas so house full electric. At home most of the time - but don't see days in office an issue - still lots of kWh's left when back home to fill any voids until economy 7 kicks back in On Eon Next at the moment - so along with batteries shifting load from day 29.05p to 6.9p night rate - saved a fortune over Christmas when the heat pump had a senior moment ( getting on for 18 years old) and was running on back up electric element for nearly a month waiting for part. V2G charger was additional to my Zappi - so now a 2 EV 2 charger family - a 2nd charger is a big plus point - kids will be driving in the next few years so potentially even more cars to charge. Another good point of the DC charger is that it can trickle charge much lower excess solar power than a AC charger (zappi / standard is around 1.3kW) - but a house battery can also do this. Negatives - Could do better with the integration with the solar panels / house batteries. Now a 3 app family - old max FIT solar + Zappi Myenergi app / new panels + house batteries Solax app / V2G Indra app(website) excluding the Nissan and Tesla apps.

Thought I would add a comment on this and I agree , the control thing is a massive hurdle to overcome come ( unless it’s financially viable ) and as you video says it’s not atm . However you can get hybrid inverters already for no more than £100-200 more than a standard hybrid inverter which can take a generator or a V2L car and this could be used as a emergency like you mentioned or maybe just to cook your food and do your laundry , and top up the static battery on the hybrid inverter. I already have mine there waiting to be used but I have not needed it because of the tariff I’m on ( iog ) which already gives me extra cheap slots. However for the less than a few hundred £s I thought it was worth it. And one day it will be 😂. Tariff could change the grid could become more unreliable.

I'm still going to wait. I have the solar, battery and g99 but battery is just 10kw and consumption is 24. I can either put money into additional battery or the car. I think charger cost is good point though but hard to say what that price may look like when greater market. As electric consumption increases and renewables, many more batteries will need to be on the grid and I think power companies will pay you for this. In terms of battery wear, agreed, and for me if they're happy for v2g that's indication battery tech has developed enough that I can be confident I won't be losing range through it's life time. Much as I want an electric car, I've bought enough 'latest and greatest' tv to know nothing good comes from buying early in the life cycle of new tech.

I have V2G at home, not as part of a trial. I agree that a DC V2G charger doesn't make financial sense yet. I expect AC V2G to be the big game changer, but that's still 4+ years away. V2G is still coming. It's mostly held up by bureaucracy at the moment and should be ready within 2 years. Several V2G chargers exist, but can't be used until the standards have been finalized. My car has 5x the capacity of my house battery. It has made a huge difference to my home energy plans, and I'm earning around $2/day. I've started thinking of my car as a battery more often than as a vehicle. I leave my car at home most days, and only really need drive it 3-4 times a year. Public transport is adequate near me, so I've mostly stopped driving since getting V2G. I still doubt I'll pay back the $10,000 investment in the charger. I got the charger mostly to help develop integration software before AC V2G gets released. I'm happy to answer any questions about V2G.

I'd be interested to know the name of the one manufacturer of V2G chargers? I can't find any.

I agree it’s not worth waiting for V2G as your sole battery source. I have a home battery but would like to increase battery capacity when V2G becomes widely available and cheaper than a second home battery. Apparently it’s the key selling point for the Ford F150 truck in the US, where power cuts are commonplace.

I'm not sure about V2G myself and I'm happy to hear this other opinion that's not just a copy and paste. We shouldn't forget that EVMan is paid by a stationary battery storage company. It doesn't mean he's wrong, just something to consider. We all have biases that will affect our opinions myself included. Sometimes our paid bias come about because of our opinion, but once we get paid for that opinion the opinion becomes less plastic and more set.

Agreed about V2G, since as far as I understand it it's all about arbitrage rather than reliability (for which V2H or even V2L may be sufficient) - with that said, I'd be interested to see how the new guidelines on battery installation discouraging batteries being installed in the habitable volume and lofts affects the calculus. If that becomes the guiding principle for electricians, you're left with either outdoor batteries (which are rather more expensive as I understand it, being in the market for such, and in competition for space with a heat pump in my case) or putting them in outbuildings/garages, which I think fewer homes have now than the housing stock of say forty or fifty years ago.

I agree that people will have concerns about loss of control, even if this is untrue. Due to my age, neither a solar battery or V2G system would ever pay itself back, so my existing PV system that incorporates an EDDI management unit (provides 2/3 of my annual HW demand) and a dumb wall charger for my small EV will have to do.

For those whose car sits at home during the day… it’s basically a guarantee that we won’t need to buy in peak power for running the heat pump for instance…

My Enyaq has "Bidirectional charging" capabilities, but with a limited quota of lifetime kwh. As you say, there isn't a lot of viable choice with regard to chargers, but I would be interested in discharging my car battery to the grid during GivBack events in the winter.

We have a 12 kw ashp and 15 kwh battery and I was looking for V2G to top up in the winter but the economics does not seem to stack up for the small amount of full price electricity i need daily.

Perfect solution for retired people sat at home worried about range anxiety

I think a lot of interested EV users seem to make the 'leap' from V2H to V2G as if (extra EVSE equipment costs aside) it's just about being able to make some money - it isn't. While EV adoption levels are still modest, exporting energy to the local DNO network will be relatively straightforward for most installations. However, as adoption levels become more significant, two things happen. First, the rationale for cheap-rate energy availability through the night begins to diminish as an increasing number of EVs (and home batteries and other demand-side controlled loads) start to 'fill-in' the dip in the traditional demand curve. Second, the limitations of the existing DNO LV networks begin to become more prevalent as increasing numbers of consumers begin to export, causing issues of localised voltage rise. Individuals investing in V2G equipment should be advised that they _may_ not be able to export quite as much as they thought they could when they drew up their pay-back calculation spreadsheets!

Don't you have octopus energy v2g tariff? I am interested in how that comes along. Nobody has mentioned that yet. From a quick look at the info on their site I see a lot of sense in it. Please make some comments those of you taking part in the scheme. Thx

The use as an emergency power source is where it might work. Useful for low power level devices, such as charging portable devices or running a microwave or CPAP.

The main reason for wanting V2G for me would not be saving money, but just as a backup in case of a power outage. V2L would go a long way there of course, but V2G can obviously do more. I don't agree on the comparison to house batteries. With V2G you get a much bigger battery "for free". The cost of the V2G hardware should, when this becomes more mainstream, be less or equal to a hybrid inverter. In case of Renault's system where the inverter is in the car, it shouldn't have to cost more than a regular wall box. And you don't have to make room for a battery in your shed that way. On the perspective of saving money don't see any big downside either. When nobody is home, the house doesn't consume so much energy, so in that perspective a house battery won't have the potential to save so much more. But when we are home and use appliances, we tend to use a lot. Washing, cooking, shower etc. A 10 kWh home battery isn't that much when everything in the house is electric. But even a half charged car will have 20-40 kWh available.

Personally i would like V2G and V2L more for energy security at home. Any long term cost savings would be nice but not the main reason. I have a small 4kw solar array and 8kw battery which on good days keeps us energy neutral providing we don't really charge the car as well . Being able to run the home for a few days in the event of a major grid outage would provide additional peace of mind. However i do think that for the national energy network mandatory V2G would be a good thing

My personal theory as to why it's taking so long (and may never happen in the UK), is that there's no financial benefit to some of the key groups that need to be on board to make it happen. For car manufacturers it means extra stuff in the car to be done safely with limited appeal to buyers (home owners whose car will be attached to the house at peak usage times). For energy suppliers, it can only ever lower their bottom line. The justification for the Nissan trials in the UK was V2G not V2H - that it would balance the grid etc - i.e. they'd get paid by the grid for it. It wasn't promoted by energy suppliers for vehicle-to-home - i.e. demand shifting - which clearly benefits the car owner but is only a negative for energy suppliers. Of course as grid-balancing etc, V2G it's not something that affects individuals directly so why would an individual pay significantly extra to have it just to benefit other people and not themselves. Interesting you say that Japan mandated it - I had wondered how the industry in Japan justified it per my above theory - a government mandate explains that! In the end, as you say home battery costs have come down substantially (along with car battery costs of course) since V2X was first considered, so instead of having a £20k battery sitting idle in a car and no home battery in 2015, it's now a £5k battery in the car and a £3k battery on the home (pinch of salt on the numbers, the point is the dramatic change in them).

With a LiFePO4 battery that has a much longer lifespan then maybe I would not mind sharing it but with a Li-Ion battery that has fewer charges in it then maybe not. V2G during a powercut just for my own use then that would be handy.

It's not crucial in the UK where we hardly ever have a power cut. In the US where the grid is a relative shit-show by all accounts, having a 600 kWh battery parked by the house would last a lot longer than a 10 kWh home storage battery in an emergency. I'm happy with V2X for peace of mind tho.

Here in Thailand you’re not allowed to send power back to the grid if you have more than 5kW of solar. I chose to go off-grid with no meter. I use V2L to support my solar system power my house. Videos on my channel.

The thing is that a home battery is a lot smaller. I bought a 10kWh home battery a couple of years ago, and I'm pretty happy with it, but my car is not worth much more than that battery cost, and it has a 40kWh battery. I can see that if you lived in an area where the power supply was a bit variable, you might want to be able to use your car as a backup (10kWh is fine as a buffer to avoid peak rate costs, but it's not going to run the whole house for days), but the grid here is reasonably reliable (for now - who knows with the way our utilities are screwing up). I'd really like to have V2L for use out and about (eg charging batteries for model aircraft), but that would be a nice-to-have and definitely not an essential.

I think it will be cheaper and easier to use V2L to charge a home battery. This would be easier and cheaper to implement. All we need is a special (and not too expensive) charger that can swap between V2L and charger and use the V2L to charge the home battery if the home battery is running low and become a charger when there is excess electricity or the car needs charging.

The only benefit i feel is if you have s big heating requirement driven by a heat pump in winter but if a charger is 5k i cant see anyone bothering especially with the size of house batteries you can get for 5k.

It depends who where. Take Marquis Brownlee he has 42kWh of batteries. If he had a 12 kWh battery and a 77kWh car battery with V2G he could have 89kWh if he needs it. And save 30kWh of home battery cost.

Like a few others I do feel that this video was less balanced/factual than your usual content. Firstly though I do agree that we should NOT delay taking actions now to wait for V2G. My points are 1) battery experts say that the low levels of draw out of the vehicle battery has proven to help batteries last. 2) V2G is built into the chademo standard and that’s why Japanese cars support it. 3) the key delay to rolling out seems to be communication between a Type 2 charger and the car, there just haven’t been to comms built into the standard for the charger to know how much battery charge your car has. 4) cars are at home such a high proportion of the time. It’s not hard to plug them in. Also I don’t use my peak of energy use when my car isn’t here. If im cooking, my car is outside ready for me to use it’s energy. For me, I’m saving for a battery and then will get V2G when / if it’s available in a car I have.

I have a 3.6 kW hybrid inverter that covers 98% of my power needs, and a 9.5 kWh battery that covers 40-100 % of my energy needs (depending on the weather). I have a 40 kWh Leaf sat on the drive, and I like the idea of just adding a simple, cheap V2G charger to add throughput and capacity. That would bridge the gap and cover all of my power needs and give me loads more storage for when the grid is cheap and the sun is shining. But (and I think this is a big part of what you're saying) there's no such thing as a simple, cheap V2G charger, and there can't ever be. I didn't realise until after we got the Leaf and I did some research that there's a massive difference between a standard car charger and a V2G device. A standard charger is an AC outlet with a bit of computer control - costs a few hundred quid. A V2G charger is a full-blown bi-directional inverter - converting between AC from the mains and DC at the car - and is always going to be a lot more expensive. Having said that - what if you don't have space for the home battery, but do have space on the wall for a V2G charger? Maybe that's unlikely - batteries aren't that big. Maybe V2G is more something that the grid needs than something consumers will want for themselves? Maybe in future the DNO will say you can only have a car charger if it's V2G, as the local grid needs that to maintain stability?

Hi. I have 9.24kwp solar. 10 kwh solaredge battery. 6kw solaredge Homehub inverter. DNO of 6kw. Solaredge are bring out bidirectional chargers at the end of the year🤞 Charger connects directly to the inverter so car can charge via DC(solar) directly. This will help with the clipping I get. Charger also uses AC. Fast charging up to 24kw. All looks very good on paper.. Cost... Well I'm guessing 3k to 4k I wish a 2nd solaredge 10kw battery was £3,500😂 Ill pick up a newish leaf for around 13k.plus 3k to 4k for a solaredge charger. 16k for around 40kw of battery. Last time I look at the cost of a 10kw solaredge battery fitting was around 7k. No brainier V2G New battery's from CATL's 1000km per charge. That's the game changer.

The reason we are waiting for CCS V2G is that Chademo have the rights to V2G until 2025....

I can see V2L such that I can run my home from car might be useful, probably rare, as England grid seems quite robust. I can see V2G might make sense for the grid, and perhaps suppliers could make it make sense for customers, basically by supplying the hardware and connection and guarantee of lifetime use agreements. Given the problems with connecting solar/wind to the grid (mainly admin I feel) I don't think its worth the effort/cost for customer. I don't think I will hold my breath on this one.

I'm sure you're right. (Your new gaffer probably agrees too!)

I think v2g will be most useful for real rural locations whereby the power supply gets interrupted in bad weather. Like farms in out eaching areas,as they can be an additional battery to power their homes

I might be horribly sceptical but I do not feel very motivated by the whole solar thing any longer. Let me explain. My goal was to build a roof full of panels that delivered electricity to the grid most of the day for credits and then later I could use those credits to cook the dinner or whatever. But the pesky utility companies got wind of this idea that I wanted to use their grid as a sort of free battery and decided they didn't like this. They pestered their mates in the government to allow them to skew the equation back in their favour. OK sure, when I fitted those panels around 10 years ago, I was the only one in the street and now pretty much every house has panels. This means we are delivering green energy in the middle of the day but sometimes too much. Now rather than encourage grid attached storage, the government just allows the grid voltage to float above the limit and my inverter switches off. So time for a battery? Well kind of, but my problem is that most house round here are three phase, so a battery needs to be part of a three phase system and that pushes up the price. I can shell out pretty much the same as I did for the initial solar panels for a battery system but this seems to be taking me for a mug. I already did my bit and kind of within the pay back time of my panels the rug was pulled from under me. So I buy a battery and wait another 10 years for the payback. My horribly sceptical mind thinks that what is likely is that the utility company will be allowed to push up the standing charges (which you cannot escape) to make up for my lack of usage. And V2G? OK if you are going to buy a battery that's in your car, well why not enable V2G or at least V2L. But my guess is that the energy companies will knobble us in some other way so they keep making a profit at our expense.

From what I understand, V2G is very big in Japan, hence their focus on CHAdeMO which is V2G capable due to their susceptibility to major seismic events such as earth quakes, Tsunamis and Volcanoes that threaten their power grid on a fairly frequent basis. So its used more for short term local power management verses saving money.

With the price of second hand electric cars tanking the battery capacity of a car actually represents value when looking at storage of either renewable energy or low cost energy on an EV tariff. V2G is a great opportunity to lower your energy costs. I have a Gen 2 Nissan Leaf and the V2G set up and believe the only prohibitive costs at the moment is the charger and installation. If this is sorted then id expect adoption by most EV owners.

Having a home battery requires more digging for Cobalt Nickel and Lithium. Better to use the grid as the battery to dump surplus power. The difficulty is getting your energy supplier to pay you for it.

Good vlog, but your purple helmet was distracting. 😂

I don't travel a lot, I have friends who don't travel alot and their car is on the drive for many hours a week. I don't care about v2g, but i do for v2h. So assuming i use 12kw a day and I have 5 kw of battery, why is it not unreasonable to have my 55 to 70 kw battery power my house as a side function, given my huge sunk cost. The garage i use, and i have spoken to the RAC about this, one of their bigger issues, is battery problems, because the cars aren't being driven enough. Yes you drive a lot, but not every one does, and people want their money to work harder. Your point about charge cycles is very key and wasn't something i had considered, in respect to mileage, or lack of.

I don't own my own home - I'm a renter. Therefore I can't have a home battery installed - unless the landlord wanted to do so for the benefit of their tenants. But I drive an EV. If I could use V2G, it would give me similar benefits to a home battery system but without the capital outlay for a home battery for a property I may not even be living at in a few months. It could potentially suit those renting their property. Or the government could put incentives in place for landlords to install solar and home batteries in properties they rent... but that's even less likely I feel!

Far more useful to have a 13A 240V outlet in the car to run an extension lead for essentials in the event of a power cut. By essentials I mean the TV of course !!

Working for GivEnergy won't change the content.... *releases a V2G video talking mainly about home batteries* 😅

I think it needs a lot more investment from the government for V2G to be useful, and our current crop wouldn't understand the basics, let alone the intricacies involved. V2L (vehicle to load) is far more useful for me as an idea, and I would love to see far more cars offering this. V2G is a useful step in the divestment from old tech, but it needs a lot of investment, and government mandating for it to be useful. Whereas V2L is something a lot of folks can all take advantage of straight away without the need for it. Imagine if we had a nationally owned electricity provider who was up on all this new technology, rather than the archaic and broken system that is designed NOT to implement energy saving features, or features that might actually help "the grid" or the people... we can but dream.

An added bonus is a good summary. Solar panels are a no brainer these days and domestic batteries are becoming increasingly affordable with shorter payback times as energy prices inevitably rise. V2G will have a place but depends on very sophisticated and accurate control systems

And also not so many people can have it due to their living conditions. If you are renting a place or living in a flat, chances are you can't use it anyway. Even if you own your house, you might not have a dedicated parking space. So it is a small fraction of all of the EV owners can and will have it.

VW have put a discharge limit for V2G. I think it’s 10,000kwh

When there are fleets of EV trucks driving only at night to not take up the road for commuters and also get out and about faster due to not being stuck in commuter traffic then that fleet will help with grid load evening out but other than that its meh. Cars are driving around where there are high demand for power so they can mostly not do anything to help with power produktion requirements other than what they are doing now with using the night time produktions that is surplus.

Given the sheer amount of battery storage capacity out there in EVs, it's a very enticing idea: especially if you could plug in at your destination as well as at home. The big data processing eg Kraken at octopus could provide the logic behind grid-scale balancing. In a socialist utopia, you could easily envisage V2G providing a large portion of the energy storage capacity requirements that we need to reduce and/or eliminate non-renewable sources. The practicalities are more problematic. As you say, people don't like giving up control of their hardware. A home battery would still be a good idea at least unless the entire energy market is overhauled (not going to happen). I think there were issues around electrical tolerance of the type 2/CCS interface, which is why the trials are all on CHAdeMO, AFAIK. It could be great, but realistically, it's not going to happen on the kind of scale or in the time frame that would make a meaningful difference.

V2G in a domestic environment is possibly going to be a niche use. I think the bit you are missing is on the commercial side. Imagine banks of cars in a factory car park being used to balance the grid demand of that factory in return for free charging or fleets of Tesla Robo Taxis selling electricity to the grid when not in use. Imagine large fleets of vans or buses in depots being used to support the grid during peak periods. V2G will be there for the benefit of the grid on a commercial scale not home use. Think grid balancing and frequency response services that can be very lucrative. V2L however is great for backup in an extended power cut or I can already use that to help support my home battery system, mainly during the winter when there is not enough solar about. At the moment with the cost of energy, this is worth faffing about a bit however if electricity prices stabilise I'm not sure V2G is going to be worth the cost or effort for consumers unless V2G chargers are similar price of normal chargers. However, you never know what's around the corner. For example my reason for getting a Zappi was to self-consume solar but now Octopus are paying 15p/kWh for export it's not in my interest to self-consume that solar so that's a feature I paid for that I just don't use anymore I am just better off charging at night.

ovo enero did a trail with the leaf, EVS will help balance the grid

Have to disagree. I'm in the process of adapting my setup so that I can connect my car to the generator input of my inverter. This will supplement my 20kw battery in the case of a serious grid failure, or several cloudy days. This is very much a peace of mind situation, but it's crazy for me to buy additional batteries at this time when I can use the car instead.

So I charge at 7p per Kw and my house could use it through the day weekends and Mon to Friday errr wonder why it's not here yet... Is it because the charge us on average 38p per Kw

V2G not so good for those who commute to work but would work for those who WFH. The US power cut use case doesn’t really work in the UK of course :-)

ISTR Indra's trials found that V2G had no downside on bettery life, in some cases the opposite as it kept the SoC in the optimal range for more of teh time

If you read through the Ofgem EV strategy document they forecast that having EVs connected to the grid is going to be essential to stabilise the grid as reliable and predictable gas generation is supplanted by intermittent and unpredictable wind and solar generation. There's mention that some sort of incentive will be required to encourage EV owners to plug their cars in, but - as mentioned - this is more likely to be a penalty for not plugging it in. The simplest solution is to force wind and solar generators to buy grid-scale storage, but obviously that would bankrupt them.

Honey did you plug the car in? No! Blimey, this cuppa cost me more than it should 😂

I think you missed the point. If you lease a car the battery is effectively not bieng used if at home. Why not make use of it. Then in 3/4 years toke u get a new car with a battery attached to it. You should do one of your white board comprasions V2G vs home battery.

V2G will probably only make sense to provide services to system operators like National Grid ESO. When they provide a paid service that smart home charger operators (e.g. Octopus) can turn into a business case, then those operators will in turn try to recruit EV owners with an attractive deal. NGESO should still be interested in obtaining services at night (indeed some services might be more necessary at night) so that shouldn't be an obstacle. Alternatively, energy suppliers might want to use V2G as an extension of the smart charging services that smart charger operators (e.g. Ohme) as a paid service (that's probably why Ohme hasn't started to charge for mobile data, thety don't need to because they are making money from the installed charger fleet) EV manufacturers will also need to have a financial incentive to facilitate V2G. So system operators and/or energy suppliers will have to figure out how to bring them on board to provide the services they want.

It definitely has niche uses but also capacity doesnt justify. Maybe over 100kwh evs can make better use for this

You alluded to V2H so not sure if you're mixing V2G & V2H together or not. A V2H system is easier to deal with and install than waiting for grid operators to come to the party and the related legislation unlike V2H. V2H is great for power outages and basically turning your house to an off-grid system.

energy trading is the future, people already do this and it will get more popular

Is V2G worth having? Yes Is it important? No Should it be a showstopper choosing EV? No It's just nice to have. I think V2L and V2H are more interesting. V2L to power appliances on a trip (caming or working). V2H to possibly power your home (or parts of it) during an outage. You still require isolation switches and permits, but it doesn't need to sync phases exactly to grid. V2G is worth having if it doesn't cost too much, but not if you gave to pay a lot extra.

My electricity at home is cheap so I think I’ll splash out fifty grand on a car that doesn’t go very far, charge it at exhorbitant rates at the public charge points that might work or not, after queueing up or maybe not if I’m lucky and then go home to plug it in for a few hours to watch the telly.

If you’re going to arrive home after the peak in your consumption… who is doing the consuming? I guess in a world where there is one breadwinner driving long distances to the office every day while their partner stays carless at home preparing dinner that makes sense, but I don’t think that describes most households any more.

If you are not in during the day, they you won't need any electricity? Get home, plug in car, turn on heater, oven, TV etc. Easy

I'd imagine even if the charger and installation and faff are worth it. The government will find a way to tax it and make it not viable.

GM Chevy Caddy sells V2G systems

Thanks for this video. It helps put a pin in the balloon of the hype. It seemed like an idea back when batteries were far dearer (relatively) than they are now.

VTG nah, but I fail to understand why my electric car which is parked some 2m away from my smallish home battery, cannot be used to power my home charged by cheap overnight grid electricity. V2H much more sense to me