So even though she was trained in Soresu she still followed the Djem So/Shien philosophy of, quote; "brute force, brute force, brute force, brute force" apparently training is everything Darth Bane was so stuck in his ways, even when he dosen't teach Form V he DOES teach Form V

Awesome.

I am learning to appreciate the character of Tholme so much. A unique and accomplished Jedi master and an intuitive, sensitive mentor for his padawan Quinlan Vos.

Considering that Zannah learned everything Bane knew, passing Lightning down to all the other Sith Lords of the Future, You have to take the fact that she was able to teach Force Lighting and all the other offensive powers that Bane knew down to her legacy. Just because it was never out-right stated in the books doesn't mean she is incompetent. If this view that so many people believe is true then she would never have challenged Bane in the first place. The whole point was to learn everything the master knows.. She said it herself. Just because Drew Karpyshyn never gave Zannah a scene where she was seen to use offensive powers doesn't mean she can't. Karpyshyn is just a brilliant writer, she was never really written into situations where she needed them. All Force wielders she faces were highly offensive. She was always against fighters like Bane. I don't think Zannah gets the credit she deserves. She knew everything Bane did, that's a fact. That has to be a factor. But it never is.

I think Zannah's illusions are being severely underrated here. What you have to consider is that Bane is the only one who has successfully overcome Zannah's illusions, and he has some of the best mental feats in all of Star Wars. Bane was easily capable of brushing off Kaan's mind tricks, which were capable of controlling the rest of the order. He forcibly removed the greatest secret in Andeddu’s holocron keeping up an intense focus backed by a lot of willpower for several hours. Andeddu’s holocron as revealed in Legacy, also contains his spirit, so Bane was essentially dominating Andeddu’s spirit for hours while keeping up an intense mental focus and performing a delicate complex procedure. Bane still maintained the mental composure after having his arm severed by a tendril to evoke the complex and difficult ritual of essence transfer. To put this into context, the slight touch of a tendril was far beyond any pain Bane had ever felt before, and Bane was once trapped in a bubble of his own lightning, which was capable of reducing people to ash, meanwhile the orbalisks were burrowing deeper into his body with their teeth while expanding and eventually exploding, releasing a toxin that began to break him down on a molecular level. Keep in mind the whole "Jedi have no fear" argument doesn't hold up either, as Zannah's illusions easily and instantly brought a Jedi Knight to his knees before she reached her peak with this power. If anything, Jedi deal with their emotion by suppressing it, so when their fears are all drawn out in front of them and applied offensively, they'll have a hard time dealing with it. All in all, there are only a handful people who can overcome Zannah's illusions, and Tholme hasn't shown me any mental prowess close enough to Bane's level to convince me that he is one of those people.

You should do Mace Windu vs. Darth Malgus. THAT would be a duel to see.

Another awesome VS's, could you do General Krell vs General Grievous next? Also to everyone else, I started my channel a few months ago and started making videos related to the Star Wars universe. On my channel I have videos such as "Can Jedi Fly Using The Force?", "Top Ten Star Wars Land Battles", "Clone Wars Timeline", "At-At vs At-Te", "All Clone Armor Phases" and many more! Please check them out if you could. BTW I'm still improving with each new video, any tips would be greatly appreciated! And as always, may the force be with you!

I think you're severely underestimating Zannah here. I think some people are forgetting that she was a Dark Lord of the Sith, not some random acolyte. And her sorcery was powerful. When the battle on Typhon occurred, Zannah was in her twenties and nowhere near her prime. She still managed to hold out against Sarro Xaj, who was a Jedi weapon master and was described to be even larger and physically stronger than Bane. On top of this, Xaj was being amped by battle meditation. As soon as the battle meditation slipped for just the brief moment, Zannah managed to overwhelm Xaj with her sorcery and then kill him with her light saber. Also, there is no way Tholme has a stealth advantage over Zannah. In the previously mentioned battle, Zannah was able to cloak herself and kill Raskta Lsu. She was also able to go into the Jedi temple search the Jedi archives. In a combination of both her sorcery and her stealth, Zannah was able to conceal herself when the Jedi came looking for her at Caleb's hut. This concealment spell was so powerful that it brought Darth Cognus to her knees TEN YEARS LATER when Cognus was trying to use her foresight abilities to detect what had happened there. I don't remember if Set Harth had any inner demons or not, but Zannah's sorcery managed to put him in a coma for three days, and she was toying with him! When she battled Bane, she actually had some control over the lightsaber duel until she tripped over the grave. She showed quite a bit of durability when she was able to continue dueling Bane even though he had crushed her ribs. Bane also struggled heavily to resist Zannah's sorcery. Even though he was successful, I think people forget that he's Darth freaking Bane. Not just anyone can defend themselves against Zannah's sorcery. I do agree though, that most likely her tendrils are only possible on Ambria or some other dark side nexus. This next part is speculation, but I do not believe Zannah was even at her prime at the end of DoE. As you said, she has shown very little dark side degradation. I think she would have picked up Sith Lightning and other "normal" Sith abilities before being challenged by Cognus. Overall, I think Zannah, being a worthy member of the Order of the Sith Lords, outclasses Tholme by a large margin.

This was not only a great introduction to Tholme but also a really good way to demonstrate Darth Zannah for us X3 I like it a lot

You know if Darth Zaanna really is that good looking in her picture with Darth Bane before their duel maybe all Tholme has to do is do what all great Spymasters do. seduce the bad girl to your side. Bond does it all the time and it makes a viable tactic I.e Pussy Galore in Goldfinger.

I think Bane made a huge mistake in teaching Zannah to be a sorceress with a shield. Her body size and build would NOT be that huge of a factor considering how much the Force augments someone's physical attributes. We need to look no further than Yoda to see that being small doesn't mean you have to stay out of the fray. Sure, it might be counterproductive to teach Zannah the Djem So style, which is more geared for duelists that are already naturally big and imposing, but there is NOTHING stopping her from specializing in any other style. An offensive and agile form like Ataru or Juyo would perfectly allow her to bring the power of the dark side to bear without relying entirely on Sith spells. Also, WHAT THE HELL IS UP with Zannah's repertoire of Force abilities? I have never heard of a single Sith that fits into the Sorcerer archetype that isn't at least competent with Force lightning. It's especially aggravating when juggernauts like Malgus are perfectly able to use it effectively. And how did Bane not correct her single-minded use of her sorcery? Magic in ANY universe is not meant to be used simply like an elemental superpower, it has to be deliberate, creative and crafty. She basically sacrificed lightsaber offense for the sake of her most powerful ability, and then she squandered it with the completely wrong mindset and applications. Lots of potential, wasted.

Soresu is perfect for Zannah. It was a defense that even the most aggressive users of Lightsaber combat struggled with. I would say she was able to use this style while conserving force power. This way she can also use her force sorcery to kill. Pretty much how she did with her Master.

Qui-gon Jinn vs Rahm Kota !

Love your videos keep up the good work

This is one of my favorite match ups, I love Tholme's approach and I think he and Zannah complemented each other quite well!

Mace Windu VS Count Dooku!

Could Tholme be a Niman specialist? He seems to adapt in combat situations but never able to defeat skilled swordsmen like Dooku or Sora Bulq.

I wish I could like your videos every time I watched them. I love your lightsaber dueling, and martial arts analysis. I'm an enthusiast, and know just enough to be dangerous (to myself) I wouldn't want to mess with the least of these guys. In any of your videos. Great video. Thanks.

Great video by the way. I did not expect that outcome as I have hardly followed Tholme's storyline

A couple things about zannah: 1.bane and her had both tried but had faile to use ambria's nexus as the jedi had trapped it 2. zannah had excellent environmental awareness as she showed when atching banes battle against a jedi while fighting her own, she tripped on ambria because all of her attention had to go to fighting bane in a straight up lightsaber fight(and until she tripped, was only giving ground, which she could have done for a while) and maintaining the dark side tendrils

Awesome fight I was hoping it would end this way.

I haven't even watched this yet but THANK YOU Tholme is one of the most unique characters in the mythos.

Superb work that was really cool thank you for all you do as far as these versus series goes its good to see you back looking forward to more!!

Anyone but me feel Peter Capaldi of Doctor Who could play Tholme in a movie version of the Stark Hyperspace War?

Hey Jensaarai, i know you probably get a lot of requests, but i would really appreciate it if you could take my suggestion. I was wondering if in later Versus episodes, you could look over some of the republic commandos vs. other jedi or sith opponents. The republic commandos were some of the most skilled and efficient non force using fighters in the galaxies history, and i thought it would be cool if you could pit them against some jedi or sith.

Zannah, on the whole, is a great Sith Lord and Star Wars character, but we underestimate her because we only see her in context of versus series. Zannah herself was all too well aware of this, hence why she developed her skills elsewhere, knowing that her small size and slight build were disadvantages in a fight. Zannah herself would never prefer a fight unless it was the only thing left to do

I like your reviews. As someone who grew up in a military family and as a martial artist, I have to say you are very thoughtful in your deliverence. I look forward to more videos. I would REALLY like to see one with Palpatine though...

The Harry Potter clips were... unexpected.

Darth Tenebrous vs Oppo Rancisis

That was a great match up! I really must say thanks for the time you put into this. I really enjoy these vids! Evannova, the Grayjedi and yourself put a lot of time into these vids and they are Awesome! Thanks again!

I think you put too much weight in "tactical tunnel vision." It's one of the main reasons you came to the conclusion in your Vader vs. Yoda video that Vader would win. Up until now, that was the only video of yours I disagreed with. Yoda is canonically the 2nd most powerful Jedi behind Luke Skywalker, and he was able to match Sidious. I fail to see how Vader would win. You also made the argument that he'd win because of his armor, and that because of Yoda's small frame and thus somewhat weak attacks, Yoda's attacks would be very much nullified by Vader's armor. My simple counter-argument to that is Tsui Choi, basically a lesser version of Yoda, managed to literally disarm Vader in a fight. If Tsui Choi could do that, Yoda could easily do that and more to Vader. The only thing Vader could do that might pose a threat to Yoda would be his mastery of being able to unleash a telekinetic onslaught while simultaneously engaging his opponent with a lightsaber. However I doubt he could employ this tactic against a duelist of Yoda's caliber, as he used it against Luke on Bespin, and Luke then was nowhere near Yoda's level. Essentially Vader would have to focus more on the actual duel, and reasonably wouldn't be able to also use telekinesis so freely as he did against a far less experienced Luke. On Tholme getting the edge as a martial artist, I can understand the reasoning, however Bane was not only a very tactical fighter as well, but also a much better duelist than Tholme, yet Zannah survived Bane (definitely not saying Zannah>Bane though. She only won because she was able to use dark side tendrils due to being empowered by being on Ambria, a darkside force nexus.) While I do agree that being creative in combat and being able to improvise and adapt is quite an advantage, I think you give it slightly too much stock, especially when pitted against greater skill (I would confidently say Zannah is the better duelist). I think ultimately who would get the martial edge would depend upon their environment, and how much Tholme could take advantage of. As you touched on, if the environment is very bland, plain, and force-neutral, I can't see Tholme winning. Because of how dependent on the environment it would be, I would consider this match-up a draw.

Nice vid man

One of the things You specialize in, jensaraai, is finding excellent match ups, this was a close fight, well done!

I have been thinking about Pong Krell, and how you said it is difficult to find a suitable opponent for him... maybe you can do a 3 way duel similar to GreyJedi91's. That way, with Krell being so overwhelming, would kind of even the playing field a bit...?

I love your videos by far the best on youtube. I was wondering if you would do a video with the very complicated character Darth Nihilus out of all i have seen i think you are the only one that could pull off a versus video using him.

Great video, all of Jensaarai's videos bring attention to less notable characters like Tholme to people who aren't too familiar with the expanded universe. As well as great estimations on both of their skill levels. I would like to see more of these with unusual characters like General Grievous, Savage Oppress, Zayne Carrick, Darth Sion, and many others. I would also like to see how you feel about the Star wars: The Clone Wars animated series (the new CGI one, not the mini-series from 2003)

Nice video, it might be cool to see a 2v2 video of Tholme and Vos vs Qui-Gon and Kenobi. Mace Windu vs Kenobi would be neat too since Windu once expressed that he wasn't sure who was better of the two.

i sent you a pm and about a week or so ago.. about what are some of the main books you use to get your info from looking to getting more in to this and wanted to pick some source books up thanks

I'll have more to say when I am able to craft appropriate responses but until then I would like to say I really enjoyed this analysis. I deeply respect that you chose to assign Tholme's fighting style based on the nature of his character over other considerations and wonder if Niman might also weigh heavily into his swordsmanship? Great job

Darth Zannah vs Luminara Unduli. I want to know who would win they are my fav.

Great work. The scripts you are making for these episodes is definitely improving, and I like the increased integration of video clips that aren't just the CGI trailers for TOR. Keep it up.

What about Mace windu vs Exar kun?

I am a big fan of your versus series and you do an amazing job. I am a fellow Star Wars fan and fan of the force and all it's practitioners. I have seen you make several versus episodes with darth plagueis, one of my favorite sith. I was wondering if you would in the near future make a versus episode putting him up against Luke Skywalker or obiwan kenobi. Thank you very much for your time and your spectacular videos. May the force be with you.

Luke, Quinlan Vos, & Caedus would be great! Love the breakdowns bro!

I've seen every one of your videos. I'm so glad I found your channel so long ago it's such a good quality channel. I remember when you only had 3,000 subscribers! Keep it up!

MY Poor Little Zannah, i really have to read Rule of Two,

A big fan of your videos man but I was wondering if you would conisder the match up of either windu vs exar kun or darth sion vs windu

My question after watching and enjoying many of these videos in this series is who would be the ultimate Sith vs the ultimate Jedi? Then of course, who would win?

The verdict is surprising. I can't see a way how Tholme should defeat Zannah. Maybe he's the superior tactician but he has nothing to penetrate Zannah's defence. Maybe Zannah's magic doesn't work against Tholme (I thinkt it would be enough to weaken or disctract him!) but in a lightsaber duel she would be able to outlast and kill him because she has the physical advantage. His evasion abilities would also be useless because Zannah's also an expert of evasion so it's nothing new or surprising for her. Superior strategic intelligence isn't enough to win against the hyper defensive Zannah. What you need additionally are strong force powers or lightsaber skills which are enough to break through Zannah's defence. Tholme has neither of them. All he would be able to do against her is trying to trap and defeat her as long as she's unprepared. However: a good job as always. Here are some duels I would like to see: - Bastila Shan vs. Oppo Rancisis (what makes this attractive is that both are maybe the most skilled users of battle meditation of their era) - Sev'rance Tann or Komari Vosa vs. Ahsoka Tano - Agen Kolar vs. Saesee Tiin - Echuu Shen-Jon vs. Desann - Bultar Swan vs. Luminara Unduli - Eeth Koth vs. Darth Maul (Zabrak duel) - Ki-Adi-Mundi vs. Sora Bulq - Pong Krell vs. Savage Opress - Aala Secura vs. Tavion Axmis or Asajj Ventress - Kyle Katarn vs. Marka Ragnos There are much more possible matchups but I would like to see more of the underrated movie or video game Jedi, especially council members.

Darth Maul vs Sora Bulk, that would be cool to see.

I'd love to see a matchup with Darth Nihilus. He was a beast and seems incredibly strong. He'd prove a worthy opponent against any jedi or sith in a matchup. Loved this matchup btw!

I think Tholme was a form vi practitioners. Given the way you described his fighting style it would make sense.

Interesting match up. Seems like this contest wasn't so much about power or over-all ability, but rather tactics and cunning.

You know you want to do General Grievous vs Darth Vader.

It would be an endless cycle of cat and mouse. Their battlefield awareness is what decides the fight. Zannah's laser focus blocks out all of her surroundings, while Tholme's whole stratedy evolves around using the environment to his advantage. The moment Tholme incorporates the world around him and turns it to his advantage, Zannah will be thrown so far off she'll be saying "I knew I should've taken a right at Albuquerque!" then Tholme lops her head of with a lightsaber.

Thumbs up bro.... Thumbs up.

Had more respect for Tholme then I read the Darth Bane series. I still go with Tholme but it would have been a close fight

Can you do some more clone wars era Jedi preferably from the dark horse comics?

once again, Zannah did NOT win in her last encounter with Bane. Bane initiated the essence transfer ritual and it is stated in a couple of instances that the ritual was successful. The confusion probably stems from Karpyshyn's cryptic and mysterious writing style, in order to produce suspense.

Any chance of seeing non-force user versus vids? Would be interesting to see a different take on it. Cheers!

Your next video on Yoda and Obi Wan Kenobi both past their prime it should be. Hmm yes be it should hmm.

I lobe your battles and feel you are head and shoulders above the rest. Is there any way you could have the inquisitor vs Ventrise

I swear, Zannah gets such a bad rap. Maybe you should try pitting her against another "powerful master, that just can't keep up", Qui Gon Jinn. Both of the two seem to have a horrible win-record in vs matchups, despite the fact that they are both held in extremely high regard in their respective orders.

is there 1 Lightsaber master and force master and i really want to see one

Is there anybody who can't beat zannah? I'm starting to feel pity for the poor woman. Also nice video I like the way you used the harry potter scenes to describe your points much like you did in the exar kun vs starkiller video I like it. Keep using that style.

I think Darth Baras would be a better match up for Tholme, though I suppose you would avoid him due to lack of any significant information on his dueling prowess.

I want to see Darth Krayt vs Sidious :D

hey jensaarai! i love your videos. i was wondering if you would ever do a verses video with Darth Revan. he is my favorite :P

Darth Bane vs. Darth Malgus would be great. Also Darth Zannah vs. Count Dooku would be pretty cool.

Tholme death is also now retconed in the new cannon. I really liked his EU style since few had that kinda role as a jedi in his manner. A great pitty.

Little disappointed in the out come, but that's largely because the Bane Trilogy is making Zannah into one of my favorite Sith Lords, while I know next to nothing about Tholme. Also, Darth Bane vs. Vader.

I'm impressed with your evaluation of Jedi Master Tholme. You did a good job evaluating them here, slough I think that there's one element that could play to Tholme's advantage=his skill in Form 2. Darth Zannah never encountered a Makashi practitioner in any sources, and the Style's minimalist and precision elements are combined with an aggressive mindset (which lent itself to Djem So). I think if Darth Zannah encountered a Makashi practitioner, she would recognize tactics similar to Bane's specialization and expend huge amounts of energy to defend attacks with low kinetic force. If Tholme would utilize Makashi and see her assumption, it would be an advance he would use to exhaust her in any environment, playing out like the Kenobi/Dooku duel in Attack of the Clone=an unfamiliar style characterized by minimalist, aggression, and leverage would exhaust Darth Zannah until she left a gap Tholme would not hesitate to exploit.

Vader vs Zannah or Malgus vs Zannah, would like to see a power house against a total defense master

Hey what game is that red sith that you show in the videos from?

and jedi are more susceptible to fear because as stated in most books they have a great fear of the dark side and because of how close tholme comes to the dark side he must fear it somewhat more as it brings him closer to the dark side and he obviously struggles with it

R.I.P The true Star wars EU

First off I have to say I love your series, and though sometimes I may not agree with you, Jensaarai 1 always seems to do his research. The only thing that I find unacceptable is the caping on Darth Zannah. First off I need to address your comments on her over specializations. She is a Sith sorceress which by nature preclude a certain set of specialization, i.e lightsaber dueling. Most Sith sorcerers lack a great deal of compentcy in this field, but Zannah has elevated her combative abilities to such a level that they not only match most lightsaber duelist, but complements her Sith sorcery. She was specificly trained to draw out and extend a battle. Something that most duelist are not capable of: Surviving a long intense lightsaber battle. She is minimalistic in her moves, using just enough force to redirect attacks, and waste the opponents energy. Once the opposition is engulfed in an attempt to over come her deffenses they better be prepaired for a little Sith mind terror, and even in the off chance they are strong enough to ressist and and break free, by then your officially screwed. Why? Because while you were wasting your time trying to beat a sorcerer in a light saber duel, she had all the time she needed to conjure Dark Side Tendrils. If you listen to Dynasty Of Evil again she is nowhere near a lake when she uses the dark side tendrils. 9:07:12 to 9:07:52 will state everything you need so you can stop trying to put a cap on Zannah. It actually makes mention to her great mastery over the force for being able to tap into the lakes energy one from so far away, and two for the fact that the Dark Side energy in the lake had been imprisoned there so no one could fully pull on its energies. Zannah Did. I'm just saying.

Here's an idea. How about Luke Skywalker after episode 6 vs. Obi Wan in Revenge of the Sith. Also great review. Although your analysis is great I really like it when you show case Jedi and Sith I haven't heard of, 'cause it introduces more characters to light that I and a few others probably didn't know existed. That is probably one of my more favorite parts of videos like this and you did it well.

Barriss Offee vs Ashoka Tano? That would be a interesting video I think

Teneb Kel (when he first got on the Dark Council) vs. Tholme would be an interesting match-up: The Hunter vs The Spy. Both tend to use the environment to their advantage, and both have unorthodox styles of combat.

Anakin Skywalker vs Starkiller would be really cool

Can you do some videos on Grievous? I would kind of like to see him being put into perspective and maybe even have a comparison between the "old" Grievous from 2003 and the "new" Grievous from that terrible CGI show. Though I would understanhd if not, since he's no Jedi and has a severe handicap against anyone who would actually use the force against him.

Are combatants aloud to use stealth in these match ups or is it a straight out duel

I`d love to see Kyle Katarn vs. Galen Marek would make for an interesting MatchUp, okay, I am in for ANY Kyle Katarn matches.

I was surprised at how close this match was, Tholme seems like a really interesting character, does anyone know where I can find some material on this guy?

What do you think Jensaarai, Revan vs Darth Bane?

Are you able to do maris brood vs ahsoka tano?

You should do Meetra Surik the Jedi Exile vs Princess Leia Organa Solo

In the past, I've recommended versus series involving some of my favorite Jedi and sith -- Depa Billaba, Even Piell, and Cin Drallig to name a few. For a future video, I'm suggesting K'Kruhk... if there's even enough information out there.

i was wondering how long before someone used tholme.

+Jensaarai1 I know you get requests all the time but I think Luke Skywalker vs Grevious would be an interesting match. You do a great job in your versus videos keep up the good work

Darth Scrabrous(He is from the book, Star Wars: Red Harvest) VS Im Gun Di

what is the music used at 22;49

Harry Potter, laugh out loud.

i wouldn't mind if u did a video of kira karsen vs darth mar

Lucas melo I definitely agree there's no way Tholme could get passed her defense

I would like to see Darth Malgus vs Galen Marek. Though both are very different charachters, i feel they are both power houses and that it could be an interesting battle.

yup. now I'm ready for some SWTOR

Mace Windu vs Galen Marek

I'd like to see Meetra Surik vs Revan. Always wanted to see them fight it out.