Viking vs Irish (Myth)

  Рет қаралды 4,197

Irish Medieval History

Irish Medieval History

2 жыл бұрын

This week I will be looking to cover the Myth of Irish vs Viking
Alex Iles= / alexilesuk
Ruadh Butler= / @ruadhbutler9143
Norse Gael= / @norsegael841
Sauces
Brian Boru and the Battle of Clontarf by Seán Duffy
Norse-gaelic Contacts in a Viking World (Medieval Texts and Cultures of Northern Europe) by Elisabeth Ashman Rowe
The Early Finn Cycle by Kevin Murray
The Fenian Cycle in Irish and Scots-Gaelic Literature (Cork Studies in Celtic Literatures) by Joseph Flahive
Viking Dublin: The Wood Quay Excavations by Patrick F. Wallace
Cogad Gáedel re Gallaib ("The War of the Irish with the Foreigners")

Пікірлер: 82
@adrianblack3575
@adrianblack3575 2 жыл бұрын
Dublin Men Man here. Excellent Video, no sponsors, no ads and just history chat. Subscribed
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Happy days!
@norsegael841
@norsegael841 2 жыл бұрын
Fantastically explained as usual! Thanks so much for the shout out! 👍
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much man. Hopefully you'll hit your 1k.
@TadeuszCantwell
@TadeuszCantwell 2 жыл бұрын
It was really interesting at the 2014 Battle of Clontarf weekend how Brian Boru couldn't have become high king without hiring Scandinavian mercenaries to overcome coming from a minor clan.
@MrResearcher122
@MrResearcher122 2 жыл бұрын
O'Neil-under the O'Cannons- were in a fraternal war over who should be chief of the Northern O'Neil. This weakened the North, and strengthened the South. Voila! Brian Boru.
@adspur
@adspur Жыл бұрын
Yes.The Vikings fought for Boru.Later,Boru and the Irish defeated the Vikings.Boru,was beheaded after the battle.He was 80 years old.Boru is a legend.
@rapier1954
@rapier1954 6 ай бұрын
I have read that one result that came out of the battle of Clontarf was the end of or diminishment of direct influence from Kings in Scandinavia in Ireland and its politics. The Irish Vikings usually had an Irish mother and were not purely Viking so they wanted to end influence from outside of Ireland in Irish politics. Without a doubt, the Kings in Scandinavia still tried to exert control directly over parts of Ireland and I think this was resented by all local people and may have led to the battle of Clontarf to end their influence.
@njb1066
@njb1066 2 жыл бұрын
Another great vid, really enjoying your content man
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much man!!
@conorfields2660
@conorfields2660 2 жыл бұрын
Them Vikings better not come back or we'll Boru their @$$
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
FACTS!!
@djmcneil9573
@djmcneil9573 10 күн бұрын
They never left. They raided and plundered and decided it to stay to farm and take your women..... LOL
@contrarianlibertarian
@contrarianlibertarian 2 жыл бұрын
Do any of the main family names in West Cork(Skibb) have any Viking links? I read something about the O'Donovans having links.
@Clans_Dynasties
@Clans_Dynasties 2 жыл бұрын
Im just finishing up this very topic of viking surnames now, should be uploaded in the next 48hrs
@aspieotaku3580
@aspieotaku3580 9 ай бұрын
I heard the Vikings and Irish fought on equal grounds at times and over time the Vikings respected the Celts and over time integrated with the Irish. I got mostly Irish,Welsh, and some Viking DNA mixed my Irish Ancestry comes frome Kilkenny still researching my Welsh side.
@dentonstales2778
@dentonstales2778 2 жыл бұрын
Excellent as always.
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much man,
@AnBreadanFeasa
@AnBreadanFeasa Ай бұрын
The Vikings allied with the Irish of St. Finbarr's Cork to fight against the Kingdom of Cashel... leading to a millennial rivalry and the phrase "Tipp bate and the hay saved" 🏒 (Bate = beaten if you're not from Munster ",)
@loughourna
@loughourna 2 жыл бұрын
Agree but don’t think by the 1500s the Desmond Fitzgeralds and the MacSweeneys would have been thought as “ foreigners”
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
I'll have to look in to that. Am reading in to the Annals right now and the Fitzgerald's are still being called Gall "foreigners" in 1400 but not English. I do know that at times they are also called "Old English" But I have not found that in my own reading as of yet.
@pavelstaravoitau7106
@pavelstaravoitau7106 2 жыл бұрын
Good video, thank you for the details of the Vikings in Cork.
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Your more then welcome man. There will be more videos on Cork. As a Cork man I will make sure of it.
@rivermoon6190
@rivermoon6190 2 жыл бұрын
Have just watched the recent video by Clans & Dynasties and noticed in the 1450 map of clans, that Burkes and ‘Mayo’ Burkes were prevalent in the West. Do you have any further history on these clans (my name is Burke) or can you direct me somewhere? Is there likely any Viking ancestry in my family? Thanks for your great, informative video.
@Clans_Dynasties
@Clans_Dynasties 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for watching i hope you enjoyed it, Burkes are of Norman stock from the de Burgh our good friend Ruadh Butler has done a video on them. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/d9x7nqh43tuuf4k.html
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Will all be doing lot more on the Burkes, there a huge subject in Irish Medeival history.
@KnuxDeluxe
@KnuxDeluxe 2 жыл бұрын
Are there any links in the Moran's you could give me? I'd be interested to find out whether there was Viking history?
@charityhawks9890
@charityhawks9890 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting! I'm in the US, and have some Irish ancestry.
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Nice! love to hear all about it.
@conorfields2660
@conorfields2660 2 жыл бұрын
Question, did the different tribes speak different languages and was it common knowledge of different speaking tribes in different parts of Ireland due to migration? This may be an Ulster unionist revisionist review of Irish history
@gallowglass2630
@gallowglass2630 2 жыл бұрын
Conor Fields they would all have spoken old irish and later middle irish
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Yes Irish was going in to Middle Irish language with the coming of the Vikings in to Ireland.
@tireachan6178
@tireachan6178 2 жыл бұрын
All mutually intelligible Gaelic .
@douggiglio2199
@douggiglio2199 2 жыл бұрын
Do you think if Brian Boru had lived, the Dal gCais would've been able to maintain control of the high kingship?
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
No, he was already old so even if he made it home the other families would have jump on top of the O'Brian's anyone. I don't think they did bad they still had kings of Ireland's until 1119 when the O'Connors took the Kingship off them. Where covering a video on this topic at the end of the mouth.
@amanb8698
@amanb8698 2 жыл бұрын
The Vikings mixed heavily with the Clans of the Gaels today's Irish and Southwestern Scottish. I'm American and mix of European ancestry. I have some Norwegian on my father's side, and some Scottish/Irish heritage on my mothers side, McDonald/McDonnell, either Hebrides Scottish Catholics descendents of Norse-Gael or Co.Mayo descendents of the Gallowglass McDonalds/McDonnells, whom as you know were also Norse-Gael (Mixed Norwegian-Scottish mercenaries in Ireland in service of the Irish Clans). My mom grew up Catholic so that matches those two regions. Norwegians had an impact more on Western Scotland and Ireland especially Dublin and Waterford. Whereas Danes were more in England (Danelaw). My Norwegian side Nelson was from Southwestern Norway, which was a source of many of the Vikings who went to Scotland and Ireland. Many of those same people went onto help found Iceland after they took Irish women along with them, even some men joined along either as slaves or just as being associates of the Vikings. Iceland is essentially as much Irish as it is Norwegian. Mainly Norwegian on the Y-DNA and Irish on the MtDNA. Cool page. Btw I studied Japanese and traveled there, can't wait to get back. 乾杯! Slainte!
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the support. Hope you enjoy the rest of my KZfaq as much. I love Japan it's an amazing place :)
@taylorahern3755
@taylorahern3755 Жыл бұрын
Amazing! What a journey your ancestors made for you to be where you are now. Also, the Norse-Gael Hebridean clans were basically the rough equivalent of a Western European Samurai for several centuries (late 900s-mid 1600s!). Legendary Warriors!
@amanb8698
@amanb8698 Жыл бұрын
​@@taylorahern3755 Indeed. And yes I said the same thing basically like the Samurai, mercernaries who served Lords in their case Irish and Norman Lords, and fought to the bitter end, for land, wealth, and power.
@amanb8698
@amanb8698 Жыл бұрын
​@@IrishMedievalHistory Anytime! Glad to be a subscriber. Japan is an amazing place, I highly recommend Osaka Castle if you haven't been there already.
@amanb8698
@amanb8698 Жыл бұрын
​@@taylorahern3755 Amazing warriors! Part Viking Part Gael 100% Awesome
@cormacmcquillan828
@cormacmcquillan828 Жыл бұрын
I would overall disagree that there wasn't an irish vs viking theme during our history. Vikings attacked monasteries, which were our actual first cities, not the viking longforts. They also reintroduced slavery and heavily depopulated the boyne valled for generations which prevented our country from centralising around that are like it had been in the process of doing so. If anything, brian boru was symptomatic of the norse presence. Hence why he became the closest to being an undisputed ruler of the island aside from Ruari O'Connor. But if it wasn't for the relentless viking raids into the most economically important region of ireland who knows what could've happened. Yes, the vikings very clearly after some years became an indigenous irish force, but they still brought a lot of foregn concepts here that were clearly negative.
@TadeuszCantwell
@TadeuszCantwell 2 жыл бұрын
Do we know why the monastic settlements moved to the periphery at that time was it religious move or a power move?
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Believe it or not it was to be closer to god.
@pio4362
@pio4362 2 жыл бұрын
Duffy's book is excellent. The picture I got was that it was much more complicated than one side vs another 100% of the time, given the mercenaries, but that Brian had nonetheless achieved a significant victory of some extent at Clontarf. He also speculated on the idea of Brian possibly being acknowledged in Gaelic Scotland, which I suppose blurs the line between our modern definitions of Irish and Scottish.
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
It really does. Thanks so much man
@crypticreality8484
@crypticreality8484 8 ай бұрын
​@@IrishMedievalHistorywhat is the title of Duffy's book? I have a curiosity as an American of significant Southern/Western Irish ancestral origin
@MarkRobertson-pq7rn
@MarkRobertson-pq7rn 10 ай бұрын
I'm a bloodline descendent of the captains of Galloway it's quite an interesting history of the struggles that Vikings and Celts went through political survival I'm also related to the earls of atholl
@demos113
@demos113 2 жыл бұрын
Much appreciated, greetings from Co. Antrim. :-)
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks' for the support!!
@tyrannicalgod6064
@tyrannicalgod6064 Жыл бұрын
Glory to The Irish celts
@waynemcauliffe2362
@waynemcauliffe2362 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks again mate.The vikings must of got on with some Irish.My surname means Son of Olaf
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
I will do a video on that man. There's a huge Cork link to that.
@waynemcauliffe2362
@waynemcauliffe2362 2 жыл бұрын
@@IrishMedievalHistory Sweet as man.I`ll be watching
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
@@waynemcauliffe2362 As always man! thank you for the support!
@misterdonlon
@misterdonlon 2 жыл бұрын
Great stuff my friend! Interesting as always!
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man. Looking forward to seeing you again.
@kellyblake8925
@kellyblake8925 2 жыл бұрын
Great video!! Explained it very well. I think the war of the Irish with the foreigners, though anyone who knows of it knows it’s propaganda, attached itself to popular culture and national psyche over time. It’s a pity because Brian Boru debunked the Ui Neill myth and loosened their grip on power. He asserted himself as high king, and was perhaps the only true high king, at least for the period. His destabilisation of power and the shift in the balance is way more significant, especially in the context of the centuries that followed
@antoanto5301
@antoanto5301 2 жыл бұрын
With so many different factions and agendas, it's all propaganda?
@kellyblake8925
@kellyblake8925 2 жыл бұрын
@@antoanto5301 nah there’s likely different motivations but Id call the war of the Irish with the foreigners propaganda, designed for the time. Not now, it’s just become stuck in the perception to an extent, it was for me anyway. The Irish v vikings myth, I think a lot of people have a very general view of it that in part stems from it though, a lot is down to just not being familiar with the history and it’s a simpler notion without going into detail
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
@@kellyblake8925 Yes! I fully agree. I get people using that book against me all the time online.
@thenextshenanigantownandth4393
@thenextshenanigantownandth4393 2 жыл бұрын
I don't think the Irish vs Vikings is a complete myth or that these points are definitive evidence. Cogad Gáedel re Gallaib beig total propaganda has been challenged, and it has a surprising amount of truth within its pages. Google Network analysis of the Viking Age in Ireland as portrayed in Cogadh Gaedhel re Gallaibh the study concludes the Irish vs Viking narrative to be generally correct or at least perceived to be the truth by the author. The video doesn't take into account the very real cultural difference between the two. Not all Vikings spoke Irish, alot of them were pagan even after being born in Ireland, think of the Anglo-Normans stepping into both worlds. I think the reason this revisionist idea has become popular partly stems from modern left views and now that it is established people will have trouble challenging it and will just believe what their professors tell them blindly. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Also in regards to slavery; which occurred in most of Europe including GB at the time not just Ireland, I always thought that the coming of Christianity had gotten rid of slavery in Ireland before the Vikings came.
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
@@thenextshenanigantownandth4393 am not sure where modern politics come from. I agree not all Vikings spoke Irish. But many who grow up in Ireland with Irish mothers and was festered in to Irish homes are going to talk in Irish and follow Irish laws. The Viking age is 200 years in that time people moving to Ireland should take on the Culture and ways right?? Cogad Gáedel re Gallaib is it all myth? no I never said it was, what it is do is facts taken from Muirchertach Ua Briain point of view so he can show that the slave trade is not his felt. Although it was the High Kings that made the most money out of the Viking slave trade. That's John Sheehan work with finds he found in Dublin and his a local man, he wouldn't even understand what "modern left views" means. He can even look him up and give him a phone call if you can understand his Cork accent. You can even look in to the books I talked about first. I didn't just pull this all out of my ass man. I took years of reading in to the hard facts. Early Medeival Ireland you need to understand is a medeival system and not modern world. So you need to understand the people at the time.
@kieranfitz
@kieranfitz 2 жыл бұрын
Me: Mcsweeneys, fucking blowins. "...the Fitzgeralds being referred to as the old English contingent...." Now hold on a second
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
haha, sorry man. Am from Mallow Fitzgerald lands so it kill's me as well when there just pinned as "Old English" by the Gaelic, even after everything they do. But everyone else call them the Irish Lords. So there is that.
@littleandre4957
@littleandre4957 Жыл бұрын
Why is it a myth?.. Great depiction by the way..
@redelfshotthefood8213
@redelfshotthefood8213 7 ай бұрын
The idea that men would invade, rape and settle, over and over all over the place isn’t a popular view on history. No wonder we are taught in schools about nations of people acting against nations. When really, it was eventually settlements against their neighbours until an homogeneous people emerged from the victors. As in real estate, location, location, location. By that I mean travel limited folks so gradually bigger and bigger areas were considered homogenous. The emergence of countries after the age of local settlements versus their neighbours.
@jmartin0805
@jmartin0805 2 жыл бұрын
I see what you saying but I think it’s still an over-reaction to say it’s a myth period. I think a review of the numbers of Vikings vs natives on each side would still play out. I think it better to say it’s a little more complex than Irish vs Viking but a general truth of that does remain. This is the problem I see with historical revisionism is that it swings the other way too far.
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
When you say numbers?? where are you getting the numbers from?? Am not making any of this up, look and read in to my sauces that I have posted up and have a good think about it. The problem is when most of this History you may be talking about was written from 1850-1970s. Most of it was looking from there point of view, Of my country fighting your country. Rather then from a Medeival point of view of Clans and Kingdoms. If you read for example Njals saga, you have an icelandic man that comes the day of the battle and he does not care what side his joining, he just wants to fight and joins the side of Brian Boru. I use this as an example to show you that warbands didn't care about nationalism. These are later ideas.
@jmartin0805
@jmartin0805 2 жыл бұрын
@@IrishMedievalHistory I would have to dig them up but I do recall someone, possibly a clontarf historical society of some sort using what they reported to be historically based estimates. I don’t think it would be a stretch to say that Brian Boru had subdued and drawn from the majority of Island, who in turn also honored him as High King at this point. The title of High King was generally accepted by the other kingdoms even prior to Boru so there were a national component in place right there. There may have been other national common threads as well but I don’t know. The point being, that in the grand scheme of things, the Vikings were still very new to the sene compared to the other kingdoms, who knows how long those tribes had been there. The Norse-Gael in Scotland had allegiances to the Kings of Norway for a lon time before cutting ties and going more independent. I don’t think it’s a stretch that a Vikings had closer links with Scandinavia and the Irish tribes with each other. You can be warring tribes of the same race and still honor a common culture and law. So the fact they fought each other isn’t necessarily a disqualifier of common kinship.
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
@@jmartin0805 O! ya there's far more I agree with in this comment then in your first. Over all it was still a rebellion by the King of leister and also you have the men of Cork, Waterford who are also on the side of Brian Boru. So it's still very mixed "the Vikings were still very new to the sense compared to the other kingdoms" I fully agree with you. The Vikings living in Ireland where talking and following Irish law since 919 and yet all the way up to 1603 them and the Norman's even the ones that take on Gaelic ways are called foreigners. in the 1400's the rest of the world calls them Irish. The Gaelic still call them foreigners up to 1600's. It's not until the end of the medieval era, that this view stop's in Ireland.
@jmartin0805
@jmartin0805 2 жыл бұрын
@@IrishMedievalHistory I appreciate the vid and discussion.
@GallowglassAxe
@GallowglassAxe 2 жыл бұрын
Great video!
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man for supporting us even in are rise and fall and hopefully are rise again.
@Clans_Dynasties
@Clans_Dynasties 2 жыл бұрын
Great video
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks man! looking forward to are video this week.
@paulduffy4585
@paulduffy4585 11 ай бұрын
So much history is distorted by nationalism.
@thomasmcguinness365
@thomasmcguinness365 2 жыл бұрын
Great video, very informative. It's fairly depressing and boring though, that what was supposedly one of Ireland's great victories (the Battle of Clontarf) was just Irish people fighting other Irish people.
@IrishMedievalHistory
@IrishMedievalHistory 2 жыл бұрын
That's a lot of medeival history do. Nobles fighting other nobles. It's not till we move in to the Early Modern that we start to see country on country fighting much more.
@tyrannicalgod6064
@tyrannicalgod6064 Жыл бұрын
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