Fabulous. I love how you get into the nooks and crannies of how carbs and low fat are being protected. Please do much more of this! ❤❤❤

I don't care what the paper supposedly proves! I did low fat for 50 years like the "experts told me". Always over weight and struggling to comply. Now at 71 I am maintaining my lowest body fat since 7th grade EFFORTLESSLY ON LOW CARB!!! Finally not struggling.

Keto diet was the only diet that gave me back my life. I wasn’t terribly overweight, 145 lbs at 5’5’, though I did lose 25 lbs. My primary reason for trying low carb was poor physical and mental health. Keto diet helped me reverse symptoms of several debilitating autoimmune conditions including SLE, significantly improved my thyroid function, as well as mental health and cognition (depression, anxiety, cognitive impairment, retention. The migraine headaches are less intense and less frequent. My sleep patterns have also improved to the point that I can wake up and feel refreshed, as opposed to needing 2 giant cups of coffee to just get out of the bed. I’m no longer on any medications for autoimmune conditions. 3 years free of symptoms and counting. Keto worked for me, however, I recognise that everyone is different. Last important point, I ate low carb but none of the processed low carb products you can find in grocery stores like bars, bread, pastas, keto shakes. Just real food. Namely grass-fed meat, clarified butter, eggs, kefir, wild caught fish and a few other things.

So even Walter Willett of all people is literally saying the Kevin Hall paper is so bad _it should be retracted?_ That is incredible.

Thanks! Good quote: "Worse than useless; misleading"

It wasn't a mistake. They arrived at the conclusion that they were paid to find.

Nick I went on Carnivore in desperation to deal with pain. It worked. I have nurse friends who said "Oh no honey you need carbs. I reintroduced carbs and now my pain level is back. Im going back to Carnivore and Ill keep monitoring my health.

I've been teaching logic for 3 decades... many people complain that 'arguments don't actually change minds', and that's true for the most part. But that's because, for the most part, arguments are weak, or they have equally strong counter arguments. Nick is having success with arguments because his premises are powerful and clear, and he listens to counter arguments and has concessions ready when appropriate. Good faith listeners respect that, and so his arguments actually change minds... or at least pry them open.

Keep holding their feet to the fire, Nick! You are making an important contribution and a tremendous difference.

People don't read the old books. Viljamur Steffanson, the famous Arctic explorer in the early 1900s, said it took six months for members of his Arctic expeditions to change from their conventional diet to living off the land. Those who had been in the Arctic less than six months would revert to their original diet if given the opportunity, such as on a whaling ship eating pancakes and syrup in the crew mess, while those over six months in the Arctic had adapted to seal, fish, caribou etc and had no desire to return to their standard diet.

Another video to use with our students re diet research methodology. Thank you to both Nick and Walter for the illuminating discussion.

Brilliant work exposing the major errors here, and fantastic seeing a scientist as respected as Willett, who no one could ressonably accuse of being pro-low carb, call the study, and studies like it in general, "worse than useless" Sadly I fear on a mass scale, the damage has been done. That study got a lot of traction, and has been used by very high profile figures to trash low-carb and/or promote low fat. I fear only nutrition nerds like us will see this

Great work! Clear, concise, and articulate. Keep pushing Nick, - the dam WILL break!

Nice recap. I read the original study when it came out and was surprised by the results. It's a shame that such an expensive study made such a basic mistake -- I get that it's difficult to schedule a washout period, but if you are going through all the trouble of having patients in a metabolic ward, you can't cut corners elsewhere. Even without a washout period they should have done the sort of carryover analysis you folks did later.

I'm so glad I found the Carnivore way of eating. I'm a better person inside and out for eating this way. Never eating the standard American Diet or plants again.

Wow... this is brilliant, Nick. Clear and persuasive.

I had the wrong glasses on, and at first, thought you two were sitting right next to each other 😂

Great and very informative discussion. Thanks.

Thanks for the video. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for being here to call out badly conducted studies! I would have loved to see the specific foods provided to participants.

Good job Nick keep up the good work

How does studies like this get past the peer review process? Are they just rubber stamped by their colleagues?

AWESOME WORK!!!

As always super interesting and we'll presented.

Very insightful vid thank you. At 8:56 was this statistically significant in your reanalysis? Are you aware of any other metabolic ward studies comparing the two diet patterns that were more approriately structured?

I'll go with the randomised uncontrolled trial that has been conducted over 3,000,000 years with billions of participants showing that man has survived incredibly successfully with a mainly carnivore diet.

I always found this one perplexing. In working with thousands of people some degree of carb capping has proven to be a remarkable tool in aiding appetite control. Clearly that effect may not extend to everyone, but it’s remarkably consistent.

I can’t help but think that what’s going thru Walter Willett’s head is, “oh shit, they’re on to us.”

Good to see hear this. Thanks

@Nicholas Norwitz PhD in a 90 day period, what would be an optimal wash out period prior to restarting a new protocol? ie. 90 days strict carnivore then a week relaxed for a week then start a High Protein, Low carb, Low fat diet?

We should add more two flips and see what happens. This will verify the former results and see consistencies of transitions in both ways.

Love the diagram explanation, i know that explanation was for people like me 😂 Huge respect now for a washout period in these metabolic studies, well spotted too 👊😎

Thank you.

marriage to ideas, a balanced truthfull mind is a rare experience

Wasn't this issue brought up several months ago? I seem to remember reading a post that pointed out this issue.

Thank you!

What would a washout period entail? I mean, after the initial two weeks.. what should have happened or been done to make the next phase legitimate? My thinking is both groups would have eaten whatever they wanted for a couple weeks, and then restart the on LCD or LFD course?

What do you think of the formula: Tri/HDL to measure IR?

Is it just my laptop or is the introduction part barely able to hear what is said? The audio is fine after the intro.

They didn't talk about blood sugar in that study.

Do you publish these on rumble as well? Rumble has a drive mode so I can listen as a podcast without my screen on my phone being on. KZfaq charges a premium for this feature.

I find it difficult to believe that this was an accidental ommision.

Totally agree with the washout period being a necessity for this type of study. 2 weeks is ridiculous for any nutritional study. Most lay persons that really have no interest in science will understand that premise. Way to go exposing the short-comings of this study!

Aren't these studies meant to be peer reviewed? If so what do they do when reviewing it?

whether or not the study is retracted will be a profound statement on the integrity of the authors.

First off- major kudos to dr norwitz to even get an interview with dr willet. And then to gently pin his ears back a bit on the results of this study. Dr. Willet and Dr. Hall had a video when this first came out making it sound like this study was the final word. Nice to see dr. Willet actually took a second look and changed his opinion.

I guess if anything that can be usefully gleaned from this paper it is that; if you rapidly switch from low fat to high fat diet, don't expect positive results in the short term.

You need a "wash-in" as well otherwise the first low carb arm follows on from the habitual high carb modest fat diet (or a high carb run-in diet in some studies). Send the participants an Atkins book to follow for 2 weeks before they turn up. Without this every low carb period is immediately following a high carb one, but the high carb diet that occurs first in the sequence follows a very long high carb period.

Dr Norwitz.... Love your insight! Regardless of they push plant based diet, what really matters is..... How does this affect the body. It goes beyond weight. Right? When it's been proven that ketogenic diet has a positive effect on brain function.... how is that disputable? And then there is the visceral fat angel. There is so much to calculate into everything.

And on another note…. You have a fabulous mustache.

We don't need more studies, we just need to know which nutrients/toxins in what amounts are in our food supply. How hard is it to get some beef and corn for eg analysed for nutrition content to compare which one is literally more nutritious.

I think Mitochondria take more then a day to most efficiently “change gears” in extracting energy from significantly different macro nutrient ration in diet. Is this why a wash out period is needed at the metabolic level?

I feel better on a low fat diet

I applaud your willingness to engage with the vegan/vegetarian folks… hopefully they will stop being so hostile to keto/carnivore

When the studies go against common sense then question the study

I wonder if the weight lost on the low carb diet from years ago (ref end of the conversation) was fat or muscle (or water). The other issue is sustainability of the diet not just short term results

Use identical twins in each cohort, after a set (preceding) baseline diet. Could leave it there, but to elaborate more on diet cross-over & wash-out period effects, repeat the original study process with these twins. But how would this 2nd arm contribute to the broader "real-world" topic of specific macro-nutrient diets (LC vs LF) on weight (loss or gain) & overall human health? Maybe a little with dietetic advice re. switching from one extreme macro nutrient diet to another, ie short-term effects, but otherwise very little. But these metabolic ward studies were never designed to be used in isolation, are targeted on the mechanistics, & combined with many other fields on nutrition and metabolic health, contribute to the totality of knowledge.

I've been toying with a Keto diet, mainly in a likely doomed effort to boost a lukewarm IQ. Stumbled upon a method to up my fat intake; double cream with everything, I down around four tubs per week or 5000 calories, my weight after a year of this is ... unchanged. Aside from an often failed attempt to eat less cake I still eat plenty of other stuff. Dunno if I'm in ketosis or not, and I'm likely as stoopid as ever, my main point is that eating calorie dense food, ie fat, don't necessarily make you fat.

My diet is mainly a dozen eggs a day, white rice, fruit, & a little fatty fish every now & then. Im 47 & been eating like this over 15 years. Im relatively high fat & high carb😅

I don’t think the paper be retracted I think the authors should go to prison. I think anyone that misleads should go to prison.

When I heard eat 2 or 3 bowls of cereal for dinner. I'm done listening to Big Fat Pharma!!

Im not rocket scientist but this was obvious to me. More bad food science.

“People aren’t corrupted,” but they just always tend to lean towards one way only: against animal-based and for high-carb plant-based diets. What are the statistics on that being the outcome without influence or selective thinking? It seems to be very intentional.

I agree, too!! I suppose a lot of poorly designed studies are to some extent driven by the publish or perish culture of academia

So what? The headlines already went out. The damage is done. The only people who will ever see the corrections are the tiny minority that are already open towards low carb eating. The rest of the masses stay propagandized. I guess we need to grass-roots harder because the top-down approach seems utterly captured. Share the links.

Wow.

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Nick says the subjects in the study, "ate calories". My question is how do we eat calories, and what does the human body do with the "eaten calories"?

I am sure the serious flaw in this study was no accident, but a vehicle to achieve a predetermined outcome. The establishment does not like the low carb diet for reasons unrelated to its actual effectiveness.

it's nice that they were able to run a pretty robust RCT. but two week periods back-to-back? it almost seems so badly designed it must have been intentionally so. Poor WW is probably gonna get railed for this, I wonder if some "clarification statement" blaming Nick for taking him out of context or something will be forthcoming.

The data is good and should not be thrown away because of poor interpretation, so allowing an opportunity to re-analyse and re-publish seems to be the best way to go.

Biggest problem in “science” is that most of it was done well, very unscientifically to get a desired conclusion not a true conclusion.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the need for washout is well understood, so specific analysis would be required to say that the lack of washout in this study didn't effect the results. How did both the authors AND the reviewers miss what the re-analysis found? Lots of poor quality science and poor reviewing in the journals unfortunately.

I'm surprised Layne hasn't come after you yet...

Yep… a discussion of nuance…. Something 99% of the internet just will not get…. Your opinion may be that Willet is wrong about red meat (me too) but that does not make him a bad person….

Very good, commenting for algorithm

Nick if you are friends with chompers how can he still believe that Ancel Keys was a brilliant scientist when it comes to the ldl hypothesis?

That’s one uncomfortable looking professor! Fair play to him though for being objective

Well given Harvard's record lately. Who cares.

This is all very interesting, because, Chris Macaskill gushed all over this report. At first not interested in it, he then pivoted when he saw Kevin Halls as first author, proclaiming that "He is pretty good"! Then, the second look exposed the " no wash out period " mistake and everyone was scambling. You are missing the point! Like Chris Gardner , the whole objective here is to get the paper out, with the authoritive headline,, ( appeal to authority), so that news outlets will run with the story. Opps, we can apologize later, AFTER THE DAMAGE IS DONE! Its a form of click bait. So, why isn't anyone pointing at the willful publication of the study, without catching this in review ,BEFORE RELEASE? Because, it serves the plant based biased agenda!

Mic 🎤 drop 😐

Did Willett think it was as misleading as your Oreo experiment, which tested only one kind of statin and didn't compare Oreos to healthier complex carb options?

The high fat Carnivore diet saved my life and that's a fact

I'd add another point. Whatever one thinks of carbs, it's without a doubt that not all fatty acids are the same. Even within a single category like PUFAs, there is great diversity of effects between canola oil and fish oil. I once came across a short but fascinating video. Someone caught Walter Willett admitting that seed oils were unhealthy. His only qualification was that he thought animal fats and saturated fats were worse. But he didn't further qualify that some saturated animal fats are proven healthy (e.g., stearic acid). Still, that was an amazing admission. I've rarely come across plant-based advocates who will openly and honestly state such a basic point. I'd love it if we could finally get to the point where everyone would at least agree that seed oils are harmful.

Some kind of flag - like don’t believe the study because it’s flawed and meaningless . Or just redact the trial and stop the BS attacking low carb diets.

I got sick and obese on low fat. Also insulin resistant. Every thing solved on high fat keto.

Lost 40lb in 4 months easy with low carb leaning carnivore and not really restricting calories that's a huge part of it, sans calorie restriction.... Better energy all day, leaner than I've ever been, supplementing lots of fish oil and MCT oil and bulletproof coffee too

Sorry to be so honest. But there is something about Walter Willett that my soul does not trust. He may be famous, intelligent, established and respected and I would guess wealthy but I do not trust his opinion. Sorry Walter, maybe you could explain to me and others why I feel that way?

How many anecdotes before it’s not anecdotal anymore. I’ll also quote a T-shirt I just bought “Science that can’t be questioned is religion.”

Low to no carb is the way to go people! Im carnivore and healthier than ever.

Intentionally misleading to enforce profits for the study funders. Aka propaganda.

Why not interview tim noakes who is well versed on this topic. You get the answer easily for most population.

Timestamped summary The study comparing low-fat and low-carb diets was fundamentally flawed and should be retracted due to potential carryover effects and misleading results. 📉 00:00 The study comparing low-fat and low-carb diets was fundamentally flawed and should be retracted. 🔍 01:25 Eating less on a low-fat diet led to more weight loss than on a low-carb diet, contradicting the carbohydrate insulin model of obesity, and a study on low-carb vs low-fat diets was found to have significant flaws upon reexamination. Expand 🥦 03:15 One diet can affect the intervention that follows, and this study did not include a wash out period, leading to potential diet carryover effects. 🔍 03:57 The low-carb vs low-fat study was invalidated due to a flaw in not accounting for potential carryover effects between diets, which the speaker finds nonsensical and not informative. Expand 📊 06:15 The reanalysis of the low-carb vs low-fat study shows that the low-fat diet was effectively stealing credit from the low-carb diet. 🔍 07:55 The order in which low carb and low fat diets are introduced has a larger impact than the diets themselves, with the low carb diet showing a trend of eating fewer calories after adaptation, making the results of the study misleading and invalidating. Expand 🚩 10:20 Retraction and reanalysis of the study is necessary due to fundamental flaws and red flags in the literature, highlighting the importance of scientific correction processes. Expand 📉 12:10 Low-fat diets may result in short-term weight loss, but longer-term studies show that the weight loss is not sustained, making the investment in this kind of study useless and even misleading.

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