Lost a sim game. 21 air kills, 19 of them "players". 68,000 sl. Lost most of it to repair. There is no reason that should be the case. The grind is complete bullshit.

Technically, once the vehicle is spaded, then it is stock. As in it's matching what it could do in real life. So when you first unlock it, it's nerfed and the process of spading is actually really the process of un-nerfing it.

I would grind like crazy if there were no repair costs Edit: 1k+ likes HOLY

I think removing repair costs could massively improve the economy and the player enjoyment

Grinding "tips" by Gaijin: 1. Give 2. Us 3. Your 4. Wallet

Gaijin: We will raise the rewards by 50% Player base: ...there’s a catch. Also Gaijin: We will also raise the cost of limiting factors by 50% Player base: surprised pikachu

This game makes ea look like that they care about the players.

The grind is a real source of pain. I come home excited to play some War Thunder after a hard day at school, and then War Thunder makes me wish I was still in school.

Low tier = fun tier Next to no grind, no pain in terms of cost, you just play and enjoy yourself It also isn't bullshit like top tier with it's thermals and ATGM's, even when we had press accounts with everything unlocked and 20m silver lions we played only 1 game of Tier 5 tanks before we hated it, it's not even fun from a gameplay perspective, let alone a economy one!

"All of the game is running online 24/7" Gaijin server hamster: ...and I took that personally

Gaijin: Adds 1 shell to ammo capacity Also Gaijin: "Yep. +2.0 BR"

There needs to be a split between pre and post ww2 vehicles in seperate tech trees similar to what they did with the naval ships. That way they can have seperate ques, attract players to their favorite eras and reduce the grind.

I have to say, premium account REALLY helps a lot which is a bit sad since I try to play as free to play as possible

Air SB/EC player for 7 years (with Premium for all that time) I play all nations (but only aircraft) and have unlocked and spaded everything rank V and lower. Now working my way throught Rank 6. But it has taken me 7 years and thousands of hours and I only just unlocked every aircraft in one nation last weekend. Just 8 more nations to go. Something seriously wrong with the progression system. A good player with a premium account should be able to unlock everything in a year. An FTP player in 18-24 months. It's the reason I haven't gone on to tanks or ships -I don't want another 7 year grind.

most content creators are saying the same thing, the grind is killing the game and I refuse the believe that Gaijin hasn't seen these... So at this point it seems like they want the game to die.

Joke's on Gaijin I'm almost exclusively interested in playing things that existed before 1945

the saddest part is that Gaijin doesnt care and Stona and Catweazle will lock your thread and give your account warning points for challenging them.

The game having too much grinding just made me stop playing. I occasionally do testflights with premium planes if I get bored.

This is the most neatly packed Warthunder review I've seen. I love the extensive comentary, and different angles of the problems. Thank you 10/10 review

i feel there should atleast be a hard cap of SL-LOSS at around 0 SL. so even in a really awful battle where you would otherwise loose lets say 6k SL or more instead of loosing SL the game simply rewards you with none.

Imagine the attention people will get if they said: "I completed the entire American tech tree without spending any money or free GE apps"

Wow. What an impressive young man you are. I was one of those who questioned the tone and the accusatory style of the video in question, I did not expect the level of maturity shown in this one as a response. If my comment came across as a bit passive-aggressive, that wasn’t my intention but I just re-read it and I can see how it might look that way. Anyway, I am hugely impressed, especially since I hail from the same neighbourhood as you do and more recently I’ve just felt a strong cringe at the online behaviour of some of our country/state-men (they are always men, well, boys). I will follow your online output with interest. It’s not every day I come across a gen-z or millennial showing this level of emotional maturity and insight. Keep it up. I hope I know your parents (I’m probably the same age, roughly) and someday I can tell them what a good job they’ve done.

I used to be a really ragey player about 2, 3 years ago. I recently started playing again, and I vowed to completely change my mentality. I was going to stop caring about the game too much. If I lose a game, big deal. If I waste a booster, big deal. get 1 shotted 3 times in a row in a without getting any points, big deal. If I get shot down in the first 2 minutes with a big booster on, big deal. Shit happens. Just have fun. Enjoy the experience. Stop worrying so much. And I gotta say, with this mentality somehow this has been the most profitable month of grinding I've ever had. With no premium account, I managed almost 3 million sl, and about 500k rp across all my trees. In less than a month, I already finished 3 tanks, and 6 planes, 2 of which are jets. And I'm 1 jet away from my first rank VI jet. Just shows how a simple mentality change can have a massive effect. Pretty applicable irl too tbh

Seriously, I have been playing this game for 6 years now, and let me tell you, the RP problem has only gotten worse. I remember about 4 years ago you could grind out a vic with little to no issue (without premium), now I get about 4-5 kills a match, 3 assists. and maybe a cap and I only get around 2k RP without premium. This is fucking absurd and it's going to kill the game.

I tried to play arcade and kept crashing into the ground because of server issues. Classic Australia moment

You mentioned having unlisted that first video so I'm glad I just happened to catch it in my recommended videos list before then or else who knows if I woulda come across this one. Good stuff, mate. And I know I'd definitely be more inclined to return to the game if they decompressed the BRs and lightened the grind so that it's more in line with what it was several years back which was a far more reasonable time investment, IMO. Also Lord have mercy the US players that equip bombs and rockets and groundpound immediately in air RB...just one facet in the shitshow of US teams seemingly always losing in my experience.

I am glad he made this video, as a somewhat average player to warthunder the grind is a bit to harsh upon rank 5. It's also annoying to hear higher tier players telling us lessers to "get good"

I think one of the worst parts of WT's Grind is when you finally get on the edge of unlocking jets they severely up the cost of buying them. At the beginning of tier 4 buying and assigning a new plane is only around 150,000 but by the end of tier 4 it's 310,000, and if you want to actually but a jet it's like 370,000 sl. I make around a 10,000 increase on my best games. I would have to play around 370 of my best games excluding the insane amount of time to actually unlock it first.

For those wondering what THAT video was about I shall link it here kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oJagfb14vbfRh30.html . The video's original intention was to show how air sim was a fairly broken and abused game-mode (much to the detriment of those who enjoy it) but if I am being honest I completely missed the point I was trying to make and the video turned out to be more of a giant, elitist rant - and if there is one thing I can't stand in video game culture it is elitism or gatekeeping. So I gave myself a thorough mental arse-kicking for my error and reminded myself of the real problem that has to be addressed: the grind. I also want to thank EVERYONE for their feedback on that video, be that positive or negative. I read through every comment (believe me it took a while) and there truly were some great points, conversations, arguments and counter arguments made, and for the whole it was very civil and well done. After several requests I have actually re-listed that video, but the clickbaity thumbnail is gone and the video description steers people to watch this one instead. Keep being wonderful you lovely people

Great video I play the game free I stay at tier 2 and 3 and play the Great Britain RB with the hurricane and spitfire and have a great time using the joystick the repair cost are cheaper and in the real world the pilots of ww2 were assigned one plane and that is what they used during their time as a pilot except for some who lived long enough to get a different plane When I was in the Air Force back in 1967 I was at a usaf base in England for 3 1/2 years all i saw were f100 jets So at 72 I enjoy flying the hurricane and spitfire no need to grind can not live long enough to get all the planes ha The game is great fun without having to spend a ton of cash Thanks again for a great video

The part about playing with a squadmate in ground battles is understated. Having someone cover your flank or simply getting twice the firepower can be incredible. Me and my friend have single handedly steamrolled enemy teams, not unusual for us to get 8-10 kills each, but we are usually around 5-7. When I play alone I am way less consistent, getting around 2-5 kills. In air battles its also very practical if you know there is always someone to get the enemy off your tail or to coordinate attacks. Also, if you work close together you are almost always guaranteed to get the "Best Squad" Award, so you can easily get 1 million Lions by completing that wager.

Eh, to be honest I would be okay with the grind if the game was fun to play. I have some gripes with the game design itself, but Gaijin also made the game to be as frustrating as possible to force people to fork over their money.

i remember tiger 2 h 15 kills no deaths only 60k sl sad part right now is that i got 2 rank 6 jets that have been researched but i cant afford the 2.7 million buy costs 1 year update: i was able to afford the 2 jets after taking advantage of a sale, but i now i have several other rank 6 and 7 jets to get and i make like 40k after a really good round in a ground rb match and my meaning of a good match is used liberally

27:14 he kills me in the bf110

I think the removal of repair cost would already help a ton

I wish they had split the modern (1970+) and the classic(1930-1965) tech trees so new players can play the modern vehicles without days of grinding, but still keeping it for the remaining of the trees.

Excellent video, love the tips you gave for each game mode. Really enjoy these long winded videos, keep up the great work.

26:30 I usually just return to Airfield and J out at that point. I save on repair costs and the enemy team gets their win. I even let enemy Bombers land and J out after agreeing to it in chat, I believe it is the gentlemen way to end the game.

A years worth of grind non stop 24/7 is the only way I see myself making any progress in this game. Also you hit the mark when you said free to play players stop around 5.3, I just got to 6.0 an I can say without a doubt that low tier is where I’ll be remaining for my time on warthunder. As short as that may be.

idk what else i had to say other than thank you, this is such a relief & helpful tips / advices for low tier player like me who's obv new to the game. especially because i enjoy AB more than RB (which kinda makes me feel insecure sometimes) and i don't think i'm doing really well rn so i'm grateful for this explanation. mad respect king 👑

Great video, appreciate it, you should reach out to spit and ash they are saying the same thing. If enough content creators get together y’all can make a difference!

There is another problem with mid game and this is something me and my friend are constantly being hammered and that's dealing with vehicles that are two tiers higher than I can somewhat forgive an enemy being a tear higher than me but at the same time it's demoralizing when you get one shot by something that's clearly not supposed to be a part of this match

This helps a lot, ive been playing warthunder since 2016, its now 2021 and im only in rank 5, and thats only in the british techtree

Finally a speaking man from the heart of most player (especially old player)... I hope the devs watch this and really listening to this

I was a new player and played warthunder for a month or 2, but had to uninstall as I found the interface way too confusing, and with a lack of decent tutorials i felt i was unable to properly play the game, and no amount of 7-year-old yt tutorials could help. Then there was the grind. Even just getting up to tier 4, the grind for a single vehicle wasn't too bad but then they just slap you in the face with a "must own X number of vehicles of previous rank before you can buy this". I wasn't prepared to spend such an absurd amount of time playing the game so i uninstalled. I had this conversation with myself multiple times, reinstalling and uninstalling warthunder several times, but now it's staying off my computer for good. I can't be fucked with this enormous grind.

by far you are the best honest content creator....... the others are just show bis...just like ...money..and give me a like!!! and i do this and that thx for your honesty

I remember playing the French tanks when I was a new player, because I just love French tank doctrine. Thank god I left that tree to play something that I consider worse.

May I recommend when your flying the Do 335 you key bind the 103 30mm. That way you can save the 20mm for aircraft and SPAA targets.

about the air arcade domination game mode with the ground targets, 90% of the time a p-47 just rushes and bombes em all with like 2 bombs.

(I haven’t watched the Full vid so this might be aswerd soon)What I hate about war thunder is that the game isn’t pay to win... it’s pay to play (hear me out!) when you get into BR 4 up repair cost, ammunition, the vehicle itself, spading. Cost a humongous about of silver lions! Now I am lucky enough that I can afford premium ect. but my friend isn’t, and he hasn’t, for months, had more than 100,000 silver lions for a long period of time and it limits his time to grind the game in a few days of me having premium I have caught up to him for a 3.7 tank (he was 5.7) to his rank and I’m now going past him. Also the repair cost for high-tier jets is wayy to high. You have to get about 2 or more kills if you die to brake even with the silver lions and I love this game but this needs to change and giygin (i dont know how to spell it, don’t judge) proberly will ignore this but I pray to whoever will make this happen make them change it please! someone! (Sorry for the essay)

Some really good stuff here. Thanks mate!

Excellent explainations in the How does the grind work? section. If I had never played war thunder before, I feel like I would have understood it perfectly.

Oh god, I remember when the first Leclerc was added. I rushed it, and when I bought it, I just add 50K SL left. And then I had to do the grind with only HEAT-FS. And then I went bankrupt in 20-25 games, almost not enough to get just parts and FPE, and I had to go back to low tier games. Now I need to make sure to keep have at least 2 millions SL in case they suddenly decide to not only add Russian top tier but also a French one from time to time (the only nation that I have top tier). And yeah, boosters are extremely important. Once earned 500K SL in and uptiered game at 7.7 in tank RB without premium. And for tank RB, go to discord, that’s life saving to have teammates. We have a French non official discord with dozen of people online at the same time, so I’m pretty sure there’s a lot of English discord with even more people online. Also, a rule in air RB I would want people to respect, is that if you have a fighter plane, go for other fighters and let others heavier attackers go for bombers. I hate seeing ta152 going for pe8 while Do335 are alone against p51D

6:17 This right here. I thought it was my graphics card or something wrong with my computer. Ever since the New Power update, I'll occasionally get smudged textures on certain vehicles -particularly aircraft.

I personaly never understood repaircosts, its not like i think "oh i cant afford the repair, lets put money in". Only thing it does is calling it for the day.

The whole booster=up tier may not be 100% true but someone did actually test this theory and it did come back positive

The only time in my almoast 3000 hours that i used a 800% booster i got in a sim match that had 8 min left XD

Great Video! To be honest i would've rather had the game be like 20-30 Dollars and a good econ and acceptable grind times , than this...

Even today in 2023 this is still a relevant video. I was so excited to finally unlock the HSTV-L and ADATS. The excitement was quickly replaced with frustrated sadness looking at the RP and SL cost of the modules. Grinding through top tier battles with no thermals and slow engines is pure pain. I have virtually stopped playing top tier because of it, independent of the other top tier issues like CAS/Helicopters/Drones.

That's why alot of players only bring 1 tank or plane into the game to expensive to run other tanks in a match. The other problem that pushes new players away is cold war vs WW2 they really need a barrier between the 2

I haven’t experienced dopamine in years now

I watched the first video multiple times and agreed on nearly everything you said in that video. I currently dont have nearly that much sl to even play some of my favourite planes because if i take them out in air rb ( I am mainly a bomber pilot) and even do well (destroy 2 bases) I lose some sl or earn like 2k so I just play current lineups in multiple countries and DONT repair them and wait to the next day and then again thats my strategy. Love your vids tho.

Thx man really helped I sub and notifications really good vids love and respect from Ireland 🇮🇪🥰🥰

What a video to pull up to see whether I wanted to play this. Thank you for not wasting my time lmao

The grind is not the problem the problem is the economy

Well, I can’t say I have a problem with silver lions, I have like 2 million of them, but I can say it’s totally relatable when it comes to RP, especially researching modules

still holds true today, 2 years later

Thank you for not making this a social experiment

Something you did not really mention about the sales is that they most often show up near holidays

Personally, I like to stay at 2.7 BR Tank Arcade because at worst I get 20min Repair Time and somewhat decent SL payout (around 2k upwards) and I don't need to worry too much about being UpTierd because I can somewhat destroy those 3.7's

Been playing this game for over half a decade, and I still can't fathom how anyone has those high tier vics...

I'm a new player. I outright refuse to spend extra money on games, unless it's some kind og big DLC. I loved the grind on first tier, I felt satisfying and rewarding. Now, I'm barely out of second tier in tripple the time on ONE nation. I don't want to grind for THAT long, as much fun as the game is. Hearing that Silver Lions only get more scarce from here makes me not want to play in higher tiers... I'm enjoying the game, and I'm willing to grind, but the higher levels don't sound fun to play.

"the average player will be lucky to get top teir in a year" dude i have been playing this game for 5 years now and 5.7 is my maximum BR

Maybe something that can help with the grind,is to remove bullets cost or even make it to where there’s a smaller lost of silver lions.

been playing war thunder for almost 5-6 years from time to time. reason of the time to time is because of the grind system and me being a f2p player. after all those years i was only able to research tier 4 and give up there.

Im a decently new player, around 3.0 BR on Tanks and 4.0 on Aircraft. Both on German tech tree, no other tech tree. I do enjoy playing the game quite a lot, yet its really quite frustrating seeing the amount of games required to unlock anything

Is there a info source where I can see exactly how many tickets each objective in air-sim is worth? Regardless of the rewards I’m competitive so I want to win, but being new to the gamemode I’m not really sure what I should be putting a priority on. If it makes a difference, I average an air kill about every 4-5 minutes

Wait, you can change vehicle setup by j-ing out at an airfield?

I just bought my first tier 3 medium tank and immediately went back to tier 2 when I realised the repair cost of my new tank exceeded my average SL earnings... Feels great...

Year later and no better. I've been poking back at it but I used to grind hardcore. Nailed it here.

This is a Realy Great video.

Starting to wonder how many more videos like this the community has to produce before Gaijin starts listening and implements changes. I can talk for myself when I say, the grind is the single biggest thing that kept me at distance from this game since I first signed up in 2013. Instead I've invested much more time into WoT, which was still grindy for a beginner but in fact got easier once you put in some time to train up some crews and accumulate a bit of Credits. In a lot of ways I would consider WoTs grind much more well-rounded than most games I've played thus far and they even made it *EASIER* a couple of years ago, when they implemented 'blueprints', that reduce the research cost of any chosen vehicle and can be earned through playing (arguably it's too easy now because WoT has the opposite trend of WT: they push newbies into higher tiers as soon as they join the game). However this distance to WT might've had a plus side too... I didn't quit! I keep coming back in for regular visits with lots of playtime before it gets boring again and the realization starts kicking back in that I'll never be able to fly some of my favourite planes or drive my favourite tanks just because I'm a regular who's also got a life besides WT. From 2013 until now, the 17th March 2021, my highest ranked vehicles are the Jpanther, Kingtiger (P), Bf-109 K-4, and FW-190 D-9... (I have bought the Henschel Kingtiger, the Panther II, the 105mm Tiger, the Ta-152 H-1 and the Alouette heelo but can't yet afford to put them into lineups/ crew training/ buy modules/ afford repair costs [K-4 has almost 20k at this point in time]). I have also started to move up the American tech tree until the 105mm Sherman & the F6F-5 and Russian ground forces up to the T-34-57, ZiS-5 KV, and ASU-57... I'm almost at the 8 year mark for this game, yet it feels like I've not accomplished anything in comparison to other games that I've played for less than 2 years. At last, this game really stands in a unique position in the gaming market and it has a huge potential. It just seems that Gaijin trusts another path of long time investment than the community and it's a real shame they don't seem to open up to the idea of attracting old aswell as new players through the phun and stimulative gameplay instead of *InSeRt ShInY nEw ToYs HeRe* and *DrOwN tHe CrItIcIsM iN cOnTeNt* way they chose. Closing point: I love this game and have done so for a long time, but I still don't see myself comitting to the amount of absurdities this game throws at one in constant fashion for a prolonged time. cleep kalm and suffer on o7 TheSteelDrummer

tier 1-2 British tanks in both arcade and realistic is just mwa perfection

i just got into the game its enjoyable but the issues u brought up are extremely valid for even beginners

When my main account got banned a while back ago, i took a break before returning around the beginning of 2020. I started a fresh account and with a lot of free time and played war thunder continuously for over 200 days, (i know this because of the login rewards). Anyway, ive only spent 10 dollars on the account (mostly going to cosmetics) and ive just scratched the surface of V rank in the Russian tech tree (ground forces). And this is coming from a experienced player who has been playing war thunder since 2016 off and on with around 500+ hours under my belt. So i think its safe to say that yes, the grind is pretty bad and could be a lot better. Time and time again, my friends have been turned off by war thunder whenever i try to get them to play. Its not even because they dont like the game, they all think its a cool concept and is a breeze of fresh air compared to world of tanks, its just the pay to win mechanics war thunder tries to push. Leopards, BR compression, repair costs, the increasing need for Golden Eagles; it all just makes the game feel like true shit and has frustrated me more than ever. I know you've probably heard this many times before, but it really truly is a love hate relationship. War thunder knows there's not a single game like it, so they exploit it to the extreme. So, the lesson here? Just dont spend money. The less war thunder earns, the more they'll rule out pay to win mechanics, and actually start fixing their game. Please make sure to advise any of your friends trying out the game, or new players in general just to not spend money. Its a waste of time, and truly isn't worth it. Maybe after war thunder fixes their game ill be willing to spare a few extra dollars.

Argument for space climbers, bombers and otherwise: I might be losing out on SL and tanking my time, ect, but for all my teammates who died its super helpful. The win gives them those few hundred extra lions and rp for the time they did put in. You might be losing in the long run, but its really helpful for your team (if you are def gonna ein by running that is).

I first played war thunder in mid 2020(I now have about 700 hours in the game), and joined for the modern vehicles. However on my grind to the higher tiers I fell in love with the ww2 aspect of the game. I originally had the mindset of gettin to top tier completely free to play, but lost that at rank IV in tanks and rank III in planes. Instead of giving up because of the grind I play lower tiers and other nations when I need a break from my main. I also recommend that if your not super determined to get to top tier asap that you play both planes and tanks at the same time so that you don’t get discouraged.

FW-190 A4 got me a loooot of money in air arcade... In terms of ground, the premium T-34-57 is absolutely amazing.

I played a match that a guy got 150+ kills, I have screenshots of the scoreboard but I don't know where to report it.

War Thunder's grind is terribly long, designed to be difficult, and predatory at heart. Not sure if I'll get any engagement, but if anyone is interested, I am more than happy to explain Gaijin's predatory game design.

I've always found that tier 3 is the sweet spot for fun, at least for flying. But sometimes just tier 1 biplanes can be such blast as long as the map is not too big.

Bruh the way to make more SL was best , well done

best game recently had around 80k sl but only 9k research points it takes forever finally tier V germany but thats only tanks havent touched planes yet

"...would increase que times..." - Gaijin

RIP my silver lions after using tiger 2 and panther

I'm not convinced that boosters only change your income percentage. I've faced too many one-sided games after boosters for it to be a coincidence.

As a new WT player I really appreciate this video. I am tempering my expectations going in. I was a unicum in both WoT and just burnt out on WoWS as a superunicum due to all the BS from WG. I am actually fine playing mid-tier and learning the game and getting good at it. It can be rough playing stock vehicles. Really unfortunate that Gaijin seems almost as scummy as Wargaming. I wish there was more competition for these type of games and developers that you don't hate in a game you want to love.

I agree with everything stated in this video. I’ve been playing WT since long before ground forces were even added, it’s always been a favorite of mine. That being said, it’s hard for me to play now because of how grindy it has become. New vehicles being added should be exciting and fun, instead I just think to myself “I will literally never be able to play that vehicle”. It’s really sad to see because I want to enjoy my time in the game like the old days, but it’s just too hard now.

I found that cheesing the grind with god mode grinding very profitable, as I use the Swedish tree, and that 150mm he derps are really good against leopards. This nets around 20k anyway, plus the extra earnings. What it does bring down is repair costs, as for me it is about 20k gain compared to about 548 loss for the spj m/33-34 at 7.7

I totally agree with the grind because I started this game like 1 month ago and I'm on tier 3 in America planes and its soo hard to get someone down because they shot you twice and you're down