Yes like let's say you were doing high level circuit and you lose all your stacks, you'd like to have a bit more stability when ramping up damage rather than dealing next to nothing. This is where mods like serration come in.

Yeah and the Merciless stacks are only 4 seconds anyhow. On secondaries we do not have this problem you described as we can just use something like Cascadia Flare for fast 480% base damage boost. On primaries either just slot base damage also or use something like primary dexterity and get the base damage from melee kills witth glaive prime or something.

Use a bane

Solution: find 1 or 2 weak fodder enemies

@@technoviking2415 I don't wish to have to remember to switch out bane mods every new mission I start.

I think Leyzar makes a good point to have no more than two sources of flat damage on a given weapon build

They want you to keep watching them

The problem is you can't know which buffs stacks additively or multiplicatively with each other without looking up online

​@@Henrex2000at least they show bane mods with an x which they should change for with roar since it's also like a bane mod

actually both games will have read/watch wiki and guides online anyways. WF does that by providing as little info to its mechanics as possible. and POE does it by using terms that sound similar but they have different calculations. i remember the famous chart made on reddit for explaining how hp leeching works and what different nodes do to it.

OK so tell me what does more dmg than a bane? I'll wait.

@@technoviking2415 having fun

​​@@technoviking2415they are not saying it doesn't do a lot of damage. What they are saying is that it doesn't make sense because we don't have just one enemy type, most of the time we fight different types. And unless U make different builds or have time to change your build your not going to care what you fight. Plus it's not like we have only 10 weapons where we can just take our time and make builds for each weapon. De needs to make a Baine mod that is for every faction(Universal) but a lil less damage

@@technoviking2415mfs just don’t wanna put banes on their guns Banes shouldn’t even be in the game i feel like it’s not even worth my time to change it every single time bro

@zer0rama572 he said he would use them if they make a build better, they do.

Well banes do double dip and that's always better on dot builds

@@noahedenborg4221 I'm like the guy in the video. I don't have any interest in having to create special builds just to gain some sort of niche meta that really isn't needed. That being said, I don't use bane mods. They're the bane of weapon modding.

I'm with you on this. If I run viral slash, I run serration anyway because I want the bleed dot to be bigger end of story. I hate running bane mods as well so the choice I am left with is more elemental which won't have a big effect on armored enemies or serration which will help inflict bigger slash procs. The choice is alarmingly simple in that regard.

​@@DaSharkCraftMCplease just run Roar...

@@NiceGameInc roar is just an ability to replace bane mods either way. Ive gone up to level 700 enemies without bane mods or roar so it doesn't really matter to me. (I usually get bored around lvl 500)

how many years u're in warframe? cuz most veterans knew Kengineer is always there making videos about the game's mechanics there, at least now u know Kengineer exist, well.. or this guy too, Kengineer if u want in depth knowledge or this guy that have simple yet quick to understand, or both... choice is yours

I agree, having it explained *WHY* you do certain things in builds is always nice. Maybe it's just my brain, but I much prefer knowing WHY I should do something a certain way.

I have Vigorous Swap & Arcane Arachne for that purpose. 👍

Don't forget that you're not removing a base damage mod AND THEN PUTTING NOTHING IN IT'S PLACE. You're removing the base damage mod and then putting another mod affecting a different multiplier on, this will be enough to get the kills to build up stacks.

@felix_patriot In theory... Yes... But not in Practice... Serration Provides a 2.65X increase to your Build.... Anything else you might want to Add is usually lower even if it will be eventually higher once the Arcane Ramps.... That's assuming if it can Even Ramp up in the First Place... Especially with Arcane Merciless's 4 Second Deadline. Some Weapons just don't Kill that Quickly without a Pre-Existing Base Damage Source. No amount of Maff Theory can Uncover this Discrepancy... It's something you notice when llive Testing a Build. 👀

@@lookalike4805 The first kill will start slow undoubtedly. But then you have 30% base damage which is acting multiplicatively with whatever is in your would-be serration slot. By the time it's at 60% the snowball will have likely rolled far enough that you're already doing more damage than if serration was in that slot, and it's only getting way easier from there. And on the end of that you have a far more optimal build. If the weapon in question can't achieve without serration, the mere 2 kills required to get that ball rolling, perhaps we should be asking why we're using that weapon in the first place.

@felix_patriot First of all... That's just a 1.7 Damage Increase (after Factoring the Resulting Maff that would Occur if you replaced Serration with a Primed Faction Mod).... That's essentially Nothing. A Fact that will become apparent when the Timer runs out before you can reach the 60% Threshold despite it being Multiplicative. 2nd of all... Why are we using those Weapons you ask ? Well because The Circuit doesn't Give you a Choice. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not saying people SHOULD use Serration with those Arcanes... But I totally understand why they do. Serration's Big Upfront Damage Increase Ensures that you will meet Arcane Merciless's 4 Second Deadline more Consistently even if the Final Damage Output is lower after getting Fully Stacked. Giving the Impression that it's Better in practice. Which brings us back to my First Response... Vigorous Swap. It's basically like having A Serration that can be Turned on When Needed but Turned Off when it's not. And all it costs is a 0.6 Second Animation 😎 It also Costs a mod Slot but since we're trying to get the Weapon to Work I usually Find IL always be able to Slot it in (specifically For Primed Warframe's).

You're the Only who feels that way... Especially since he Explained it just fine but there's definitely Holes in your Explanation. 😐

@@lookalike4805 scroll down the comments a bit...

There is others , ones that break it down even further in that case actually

Do not worry, DE will find a way to screw us somehow

You'll get 1 dust per steel path arcane, and a pack with three arcanes costs 500 dust, you'll see 🤣

Fr it’s so hard finding a buyer for these arcanes these days

and if you swap serration for a bane mod the numbers on the left go down, Which is why its hard to understand why a bane can sometimes outclass serration. Additive and multiplicative can be thrown around all day but truthfully the typical person sees number go big or number go small. Love the game but they really could do well to make the UI show things better.

Or you just hit cannon fodder , or you are running armour strip of some flavor even if it’s not 100% , ramp up generally is not an issue

Longbow is eclipse

You would definitely be hurting your damage by replacing Hunter Munitions for the riven. Even with diminishing returns, the Riven can add a whole lot of damage to the build as long as it’s got a good roll and you know what should be replaced for it. What mods do you currently have on your dread, if you don’t mind me asking?

Unless you are a Founder cross save is not coming on the 13th, however give it a week or 2.

I'm pretty sure that in every Aznvasion video the link to a spreadsheet is in the Pinned comment.

Counter-counterpoint: the elemental mods you put on should be viral so your slashes scale much higher than Serration ever could

@@lerosallyn9279 i’m using gas nataruk with zephyr, can’t do viral because i need the gas to aoe loop with tornadoes

​@@lerosallyn9279counter counter counter point Out source viral if it isn't forced bleeds like hemorrhage or hunter munitions

Yeah, though their are a selection of weapons where you’d still want to have something like Serration, on top of the flat damage arcane, because their upfront damage when building stacks is lacking without it

It’s 4 seconds PER stack, not the whole stack of 12. And I mean this in the best way possible but if you’re taking 10s to kill an enemy in base SP (were talking about the same base level of 100-150 right?) you need relook at your builds to figure out what’s going wrong

@@lerosallyn9279 100%

Well for raw dmg builds deadhead IF they can kill via headshot Merciless for every other build And dexterity if ur going melee or have down time like disruption

I still run deadhead mostly , merciless I only really run on pure aoe stuff where you’d be lucky to proc deadhead

Do what he said with the 100 damage, but on a Zhuge. It's base damage is 100

i still dont get it :,l

Imagine this: You have 8 arms in your inventor., and you are 1 person capable of carrying up to 50 kilos, but you dont have arms to grab them so you cant actually carry that weight. Now, the task is to lift a 50 Kilos bucket to your neighbours house. How do you carry it from your house to there? Answer is: you put 2 arms from your inventory to you, and now you have the capability of lifting it and carrying it. So far so good. Now imagine you have to lift a bucket of 100 kilos, but your whole body still can only lift 50 K. What do you do? Wrong answer, and this is what adding Serration and more raw damage mods does: You select another 2 arms from your inventory and put them into you aswell. If 2 arms allowed you to carry 50 kilos, then a 4armed person should carry 100 kilos, right? The answer is no, because your arms allow you to lift the bucket, but you actually carry it with your whole body, so 4 arms still carry 50 Kilos bucket. Correct answer: you select 2 arms from your inventory, and put them into another armless person. Now this person can carry 50 Kilos aswell, so job done. You might say, hey but you didnt tell me that there were more armless people in my house. And thats precisely it. You know that there is raw damage, but you dont know that there is Faction Damage, Elemental Damage, Status-Slash procs damage, Critical Damage. You learn them on the run. So, landing the example unto warframe: if the goal is to do the highest damage possible (carry the most buckets), wouldnt the answer be to 'allow/activate' all the people in your house to everyone carry a bucket? That is, to use your mod capacity/arm inventory to give them arms so they all can now lift buckets? Thats what you do in warframe when you add different types of mods. 1. Raw damage like serration, heavy caliber and that arcane, are like 2 arms in a person, so equipping them together is like putting yourself 6 arms to lift more. The more arms doesnt necessarily mean you can carry more weight, because you lift using your back muscles and legs. 2. Elemental damage you literally enable it in many guns until you put elemental mods, same as in the example, you activate your helpers until you give them a pair of arms. 3. Critical Damage exists by default, but you need Chance for it to happen, so you here must also enable them by adding more arms/mods here. 4. Status, also exists but need to build it up so it becomes useful, by also pouring mod capacity/arms from inventory. 5. And there might be more hidden people in your house. I read yesterday that warframe Mirages Eclipse increments total damage, Rhinos Roar are a universal faction damage mod, and so on. So if you see, thats the general idea. Now, why does this work this way? Because most things in life, by default, already do something by themselves. it is until you couple some of them together that they work best, or different. The detail is to understand them, and see what things need tweaking/enabling/an upper hand. Final example, a tire can rotate and move easily, an engine transforms one energy into another, and a wheel allows to steer something. By themselves, they already work, but when you use mods to activate them and tweak them, and add them together. You get an engine, connected to a transmission, that allows the tires to spin and thus move in a certain direction, and a wheel that guides the general body of what you just created. What did you roughly assemble? A car. tl:dr: things already work by themselves, the trick is that together, they work way better. The important part is to know them so you can tweak them to do certain tasks up to the best of them.

I'm not Reading All That. 😐

@@lookalike4805 there exists something called tl dr that means Too Long, Didnt Read, in case you dont want to read something massive. I put one on mine comment.

@zairuswane What's the point if you Hide It ? 🤔 Should I go looking for your TLDR ?

Except viral gives you bigger slash procs...

@Goldy01 Luckily Primers Exist... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Correction status isn't the same as damage when u say status u are talking about status effects Plus u have other sources of viral procs

I mean if I build status on my main damage gu, its gonna be viral I'm not insane@@noahedenborg4221

Mastery rank ≠ Knowledge Im mr 24 and i still can't do profit-taker😅

mastery rank doesn't equal knowledge I legit learned everything about the game after abandoning it for years when I came back to it in 2018 lol

I have played wf for 8 years and I still don't understand some fundamentals

Wait... How do I get that Crossed Out Equal Sign ? 😮 -=-

Nope ... Can't Fool the System with That Trick... 😬

Condition Overload for Rifles... Simple ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And use the gun Co spreadsheet to find out if it's serration or eclipse

With the recent changes to puncture and cold this isn't the case anymore. Shotguns value Blight, Frostbite, Vendetta, & Voltage now and is a valid choice in competing with Aco Arcanes.

Unless you're using the base verson and not incarnon then yes. If you are using the incarnon mode do not use Aptitude unless you're going for direct shots. Aptitude does not work on AOE hits.

even better, run Double Tap for that sweet sweet final multiplier

@eryes1218 All Multipliers are Final... I'm guessing why we feel the need to Say "Final" is because Serration, Double Tap & Eclipse all Say + Damage. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

it depends on which mod brings the highest value, I dont know much about warframe, but other games, you stay with the thing that provides the most of that multiplier

​@@zairuswaneactually u spread ur multipliers

Base dmg mod + acolyte arcane that's fine but if u add another source of base dmg like heavy caliber then it's not good

@@noahedenborg4221 precisely what I implied. with 'provide the most of that multiplier', I meant that if 1 mod does that, then 1 mod alone will be. For critical, for example, to get the most out of critical with mods for noobs, you need chance, damage and I use gladiator/vigilante mods, thats a way of boosting your crits by far, or to get the most out of them. But by doing these you already use 6 family mods plus 2 or 3 mods alone for crit.... So, thats what I mean with get most out of something. I hadnt thought of Mcgamercz idea of fire rate being another multiplier, so thats the idea hahaha

The math is actually rly simple. If you’re going against base SP enemies or lower, more base dmg kills them faster hence Serration wtv else. Any content higher than that is so incredibly tough that you need to maximise damage sources through banes, arcanes, and viral slash in order to kill them faster. Higher enemy level = higher armour that upfront base dmg cannot peel off, meanwhile spreading multipliers takes a bit to ramp up but easily outscales the former

The only thing with wonky math is the galv CO mods they have some weapons where it’s multiplicative and some where it’s either or but higher than a 100% dmg back ratio or less in others , some they don’t even flat out work