One hour long video is not that bad, especially about so complicated topic

@@Ax_Dj0 Completely agree, this is one very justified hour given the depth you went into. I feel a 30 minutes video would not have been informative enough and thus a bit disappointing. With the 1h, every lore got a bit of a spotlight, which is great. I mean, this hour was packed with information and advice, there are other content creators who do 40 minutes video on a single CA hint...

I think you just made the definitive Guide to Magic.

But Death and Wild passives are kinda good, basically mini-Arcane Conduit for 25 seconds. The Heaven ones is kinda weird though, given that school doesn't have any anti-air spells

Thanks for the explanation. Was sitting for like 40 minutes wondering why you're ignoring the passives and then heard the note at the end xD I have to say, though, that the passives seem to be integral to the viability of some lores - specifically Shield of Saphery comes to mind, which combos well with the spammable spells like Hand of Glory or Apotheosis.

So lore of stealth is sealthy who would have guessed 😂... rat ninjas OP🐀✊

Yeah, I admit that I have not heard of it, lol

It’s so good at stealth you forgot it existed

@@mcmarkmarkson7115 funnily enough Eshin is likely the Skaven faction that benefits least from their own lore since they already have plenty of stealth (then again I suppose the same could be said of Pestilens and poison)

I ignored it completely until starting an Eshin campaign, and discovered just how weak the lore is firsthand.

Don’t want to insult. Such comments look like bootlicking and as a try to exalt the author, which doesn’t seem to be reciprocal, especially with such fame of him

No u mad lad

@@Kelerod no u salty

@@Kelerod Literally no need for this comment at all.

@@Kelerod You might be right, but can you elaborate?

So satisfying to get 1WoM Searing Doom on Gelt. Wouldn't blame the AI if it auto-surrendered any sieges Gelt rocked up to.

I do feel like metal is better than D tier though. I feel he undervalues it because he compares generic casters to Gelt and also just rarely ever recruits metal casters to give it a chance.

It should almost count as two separate entries in the list for Gelt and NotGelt. Glittering robes for 0 cost is also pretty good, especially because you spend a lot of time fighting Vampire counts with weak AP.

Gelt's really amazing, isn't he? Probably only matched by Teclis, but that...nah, I think he's even better and more fun than Teclis.

@@goransekulic3671 Definitely more fun, to me. There's something about the juxtaposition of a wan elf mage on a mystical phoenix, commanding coruscating arcs of lightning across the battlefield, being just as effective as dude with a gold face flying around on a sky horse and slapping things with magic hot metal.

I also think both visually and audibly, it is the most satisfying spell to cast in the game. The way the sound drops out just before the screams of plebs fills the air... magnificent.

Plus you can cast it on walls during sieges!

and pit of shades doesn't move so you're not screwed by RNG movement like other vortex spells. It's an absolute blob killer.

I haven't used pit of shades that much, but Talons of Night in warhammer 3 is incredible for a similar reason. 100% armour piercing, MASSIVE AoE, lasts a good time, and best of all, it both pins units, and 9 times out of 10 the AI will walk more units into it, just like with net of amyntok. The fact that Miao Ying can cast it whilst in dragon form is absolutely incredible.

You are on the same level as Tyrion.

He done it already, but for each race not all

Even better better would be a tier list of the same magic type caster LLs (Morathi/Malektih for dark, Tehenuahin/Malagor/Durthu for beasts, Azhag/Mannfred/Arkhan for death, etc)

He probably gets much better statistics from these than the 6 hour runs. Takes way less effort than having to answer the same question for those 6 hours.

Also, the more Legends enjoys what he does, the more I enjoy it

@@guyincognito1406 Also analyzing and reflecting stuff is usually more fun than repeating the same steps over and over again. Legends probably has 5k+ hours in TWW2 nowawdays, he's bound to be a bit tired of it.

honestly i hope he never goes back to streaming at all. I feel like he's been enjoying himself much more doing just these kind of videos, and i also prefer to see he doing those things without having to stop mid-sentence and read aloud some repetitive jokes or a question that got asked like a million times over. I would rather watch his 3 hours saving a disaster campaign as he rambling to himself rather than 30 minutes of him livestreaming.

I think that is just the power of editing. Legends videos are great but his live streams are painful. He just goes on about viewer numbers way too much. We get it that it is his income but it would be nice to not hear about work when watching streams to relax.

Vampire for me for a looooooonnng shot

About 1000 hours for warhammer1 and 2500 for warhammer 2 and I still really really really hate humans, maybe that’s why Ps: other than markus and fey

Shadow, Light and Fire. High Magic for aesthetic

Dark magic, no doubt.

my favorites are fire, fire, fire and FIRE!

MVP^

He's never considered buffs useful. But the area effect buff spells on archers, game long, is devastating. Rhuin, for example.

Its a bit of a hard one to rate to be 100% fair since tomb king armies are so varied. You cant really rate how good it is in their armies beyond base skele spam since their armies are insanely varied so in some armies nehek magic is decent in other ones its really not. Light magic is never wrong in any army so I guess a fair argument is you can always just safely use light magic with as good if not better results instead for tk so there is no reason to ever use nehek magic.

​@@jamiefenwick8359 well like you said yourself it depends on the type of TK army you're building. Meaning in some cases there is absolutely a reason to use Nehek.

@@Ebb0Productions the issue is you have a very limited number(~12) of wizard heroes that tomb kings can recruit so hiring a lore of Nehekara wizard when you could be getting lore of light or shadows doesn't make much sense. If they had a max wizard capacity like most other factions of 100 it wouldn't be as big of a deal.

And how isn't the mapwide heal every time you cast a 3 wind weapon dmg increase buff on your strong fighter lord really juicy? I just don't get it

Yeah that's my one criticism of the video, he evaluates lore of the little waaagh pretty explicitly based on the Lord mount that makes it cheaper, saying that this is a super cheap spell with low impact and that is a spell with low impact and it works by casting them over and over again. Soulstealer is an amazing spell to have on a black dragon, even on a slightly weaker one and one of the few spells that deals passable damage to stacked SEMs. Also unrelated to soulstealer swords is one of the few first tier vortex spells and for that it imo deals more than decent damage even when it isn't overcast. I vastly prefer it over burning head which imo always hits a bit weak unless you're scorching rats. It sucks vs armor, but it's fairly cheap with a low cd for a vortex and one of the spells that even not overcast can easily decimate archers and if you overcast it is is decent in chokepoint situations or against blobbs. To boot the one thing you don't really care about as DE is heavily armored infantry, which is the one thing swords is worse against than heavy vortex spells like purple sun.

@@RevanofCorriban well, he rated the little Waagh based on the Spiderweb Shrine because its the only Little Waagh Caster you should get, Orc Shamans with Big Waagh are just the better choice for your Hero Capacity, so its actually fair to rate the little Waagh based on the only caster that you'll actually use it with.

Little Waagh is good because the goblin shaman lord, not the hero version. Half cost spells on the spider shrine.

Little Waagh doesn't have as good spells as shadow, but you can get them so cheap on a generic lord that it's just way more efficient

Yeah, that difference is what puts Gelt so far above other Metal casters. He can call down th shrapnel every few seconds.

I hope it's batshit insane and does a lot with the theme of change.

Ideas: Spell to gain control of an enemy unit for some amount of time or switch one of yours for one of theirs. Spell that teleports an enemy unit somewhere random on the map.

@@BobMcBobJr Take temporary control of the strongest enemy unit, fight with it for a short time, press the retreat button.

Lore of Slaanesh will rip enemy clothes off to reduce their leadership.

Ironically, Lore of Tzeentch actually was one of the worst discimplines both in 40k and FB most of editions, being wayyy to unreliable, hard to cast and just weird.

Problem for me is that the Eshin Sorcerer can't really keep up with the pack even if he's Fleet-footed

@@alexeyalexandrov7583 Yep, I've tried to use eshin sorcerers in brood horror doomstack and i think the spells would go with it pretty alright if they could keep up. they should pull something out of their ass to get eshin sorcerers a really fast mount. none of the other heroes should though

Eshin Sorcerers are weird. On the one hand, I can't think of a single time where I really felt like he really supported or brought out the best in an army, or helped that army win. On the other hand, I think only Gelt may have ever single-handedly won more battles that I really didn't deserve than the Eshin Sorcerer. Those little ninja stars just put in so much work, despite seeming like such a "bleh" spell.

@@yes-yes8632 Yea, I found Plague Priests are much better as casters for Brood Horror stacks: 1) they an get up to ~80 speed (Fleet-footed + Banner of Swiftness + Speed buff from melee line + Foe Seeker) 2) They have a very large Mortis engine mount that can push through enemy infantry and escape 3) They have summons which also help to escape

@@alexeyalexandrov7583 Yes. Even without any of the speed stacking or mount they are better because plague is a much better spell than anything an eshin sorcerer has.

Tempest> fire

I watched a video awhile back done by zerchoivich or whatever his name is testing the accuracy increases and for the most part it’s very negligible.

@@TeaserTravlein can still be usefull since youll be casting in the aproaching fase which means you will get the WoM back anyway.

I literally made a post on the warhammer 2 forums exactly like this. lore of deeps is SO undervalued, im glad someone shares my opinion of it.

Accuracy for queen bess let u pick about 4-8 shots with INCREDIBLE accuracy, unless enemy will specially avoid it. U just need to shoot only in infantry, not monsters or cav. Each shot hits like a comet of cassadore - obliterate about 70% of unit if shot will be perfect. And that spell let u shot perfectly from 350 meters in any squad ;)

It's a great lore for sure, summon crabs biggest problem is they block all the gunners that you will likely roll with, so its less useful than other gun factions + summons (Skaven). It has the damage and utility like vampire, but lacks the healing, so you end up having to bring a vampire caster with you anyway and that's really the problem, when you have vampire magic, you don't need lore of deeps.

in MP cheap buffs and debuffs are also excellent while easily dodgeable, high dmg spells are worthless. it really is a different beast

For me, it wasn't necessarily which to focus on but which to completely avoid. I have thousands of hours in the game and it cleared up a lot with him going into the nuts and bolts of it. Some of the lores look really good on paper but in game they just suck.

I tried adding an Eshin sorcerer to my weapon team army and I enjoy the result. Being able to disrupt enemy's front lines as they closed in was fun.

Lol

any magic is still better than no magic, i think legend said it before

He would discover overcasted black whirlwind is actually insane if used right.

Guys against dwarfs, Eshin sorc with stalk are fucking 10 out of 10, usually pins them while u pommel them with plague catapults and rattling guns

those winds are admittedly better spent on just casting more fire spells, most lores of fire users have a mount which allows them to avoid melee entirely if they desire it

It has a thoroughly average, maybe even sub-average, effect, but it's used to keep your passive going(Legend really shouldn't overlook these, they are much more powerful than their TWH 1 variants - in fact, I think that Fire should be nerfed because it pretty much always gets multiplied by 1,25 or 1,2). Or to setup your passive before you nuke. Aqshy is so nicely designed, I love it!

@@Adierit it's a very situational spell but it can have its use if you make a micro mistake or if you see that one of your heroes or unit isn't faring too well and you need it to hold a bit longer. It's a very cheap spell so if you don't have much wind and can't wait a minute or two to cast damaging spells again it's quite useful

Use the fire cloak to extend your passive's time being active during Flaming Sword of Rhuin so that your units are applying fire damage to fire weak units for longer.

Rune of spite as a skill would be insanely op. Otherwise though, yeah, they kinda got shafted. Which is unfortunate, because on the beta it looked like it'd be great.

@@Loj84 the current rune of spite is good because its on the whole time, a spell would be active for 10 or 15 sec, it would be an improved flock of doom at best, still pales compared to many other magic outside, so it would not be op.

@@mcmarkmarkson7115 rune magic is Dwarf magic and it sucks big time, I use runesmiths only for the passive missile dmg, I love playing with Dwarfs, but they are for sure one of the worse races in game, and you notice it more and more the higher the difficulty you play.

@@mcmarkmarkson7115 Dwarfs are not amazing. Look at the faction ranking, I agree with where L put Dwarf compared to other factions. Not the worse, but nowhere close to amazing.

@@mcmarkmarkson7115 dwarfs sure as hell aren't amazing. I feel like people only say this if they don't play dwarfs themselves, because the AI dwarfs are strong as fuck. That doesn't translate to playing them, though. Dwarfs are one of the bottom 5 races. Not as bad as chaos or norsca, not so bad that they can't be fun to play, but still weak.

Blob the enemy up and it’s amazing

I think something people gloss over when comparing it to vortex or wind spells is that it's consistent. Every unit that is in the circle when you cast it, even if it's just a few models of an infantry unit, gets affected by the full damage of the DOT. Very easy to ensure it does its worth in every cast.

And missile improvement

Maybe not just giving them magic resistance, since resistances are additive. Maybe if they introduced a separate difficulty damage modifier that was multiplicative, but if you just added resistances with how it works in game right now you'd throw balance out of whack even more.

simple only buff leadership and hp. best way to balance for alle damage types

@@marknum545 nope, then we would just get unbreakable skavenslaves with 20 k health on legendary

@@Leo-dt5ic wrong. currently they get buffs to lesdership ma and md. this is why magic and range outperforms melee on higher diffculties. if you keep the leadership bonus or slightly reduce it and instead buff health it would balance over all damage types

Nehekhara passive sucks though. What's a pitiful, if map wide, 30pt heal gonna change? This has got to be nerfed due to multiplayer concerns.

@@goransekulic3671 The point is that it's a 30hp heal for all your undead units, and rez units if they're full. Your undead infantry have between 59-82hp/model depending on the unit. So, you throw Resurrect (from your Lord's red line) into a blob of your damaged infantry post-battle to get their model hp to full, then start throwing cheap casts down to spam healing. Nehekhara spells are dirt cheap during battle as well - If you're spamming Djaf's that's 2/3 winds per cast, Neru's and Ptra's are 5/6. If you're just cycling through those 3, that's 12/15 winds for 90hp x 20units = 1800hp every ~22 seconds, which is a free Earth Blood equivalent on top of throwing out more damage and keeping your lord alive longer. (edit bc I suck at math) Is it earth-shatteringly powerful? no. Easily cheeseable? also no. It's a very nice dessert though, given that you're going to be using the winds anyways and TK doesn't have access to Lore of Vamps or Lore of Life. I'm just waiting for TK to finally get a lord pack that gives us our Liche High Priest lords with Casket mounts.

Add to your list of underrated lores high, metal, and rune. High: If Death is S rank, largely driven off of Wind of Death, then High should not be sitting at C when Fiery Convocation is mechanically outright better save for the following case: overcast vs low armor units. Metal: If Fire is S rank, driven off of flame storm and piercing bolts of burning then metal should not be at C rank when, on a normal wizard, golden hounds and searing doom are roughly equal power respectively. The great difference between fire and metal is big vs precise. On that note; the idea that golden hounds is more likely to turn into your lines is confirmation bias: flame storm and gold hounds have the exact same turning logic from the most recent spell data covering that I could find. Rune: Almost everything said here I found to be off base. First: Rune of negation on a normal runesmith (not a runelord) got turned into a single target with a bit short of double potency; saying it lost potency and got turned into a single target is comparing it to a runelord, and ignoring that in that context it got a 33% duration increase. Still a nurf and a significant one, but well short of what it was portrayed to be. Also rune of slowness was pretty overlooked considering gatekeeper's hammer is a thing and comboing bless with filth and suppression was something Legend was excited about. I don't know if there is a max -speed %, but if there isn't then dwarves now have a net, even if it is single target. Second: Using only 1 rune is a pretty bad misplay on rune magic: Not a limited resource, all runes have the same individual cooldown and shared cooldown and said shared cooldown is exactly half of the individual rune cooldown. Rune magic gains very little from optimal casts: Explosions have comparatively weak gains from clustering, and buff need for optimal casts comes out of its limited magic supply. Notice how legend tends to use foe seeker and deadly onslaught: Not on cooldown? Put it on cooldown. As a result a minimum of 2 runes should be in use, which kills the "not worth casting" idea put forth. Third: Most people will only have 1 or 2 runesmiths. Seems like sticking to old habits and not thinking the changes through to me. Runesmiths are now extremely common given that they come from minor settlements and you get 2 from major settlements. Thanes have taken the slot of the rarest hero since they are 1/major settlement and engineers you want in with the firing line. If you are going to use 4 plague priests to stall, then 4 dwarven heroes to stall also seems like the reasonable amount. Given relative frequency I'd expect that to be 3 runesmiths and 1 thane. Depending on lord choice that makes for 3 or 4 casters of rune magic in an army.

@@Mythralblade04 Yes and good luck actually making something out of that. It's ok in multi where every edge counts, but in campaign? Yeah, like...no. But at least it's better than their de facto mechanic(Realm of Souls or something). Now, that sucks! I even tried fixing it, but it needs a full redesign.

@@calebreinhold6987 tbh? I took some things he says for granted. Like, I thought DE Dread Knights had basic Rampage only to find out, no they don't. And they are actually quite decent melee cav(it's just his masochist difficulty, fuck that). Now I really can't wait for that Hag Graef Vortex! Regardless: High: Wind is Vampire, not Death. Death sucks lol. As for Quaysh, it is a n interesting Lore. Protoboard for Lore of Nehekhara imo. And it should be at least one tier below Vampire because Vampire is better overall. But yeah, it is B- to me. Metal: Here he ran into some serious consistency issues. So, it's ok to rank Lil Waaagh(a thoroughly sub average Lore if I might add) off the fact that Shaman Lord gets an Arachnorok, but it's not ok to rate Chamon off "Welcome to Estalia...". I mean...yikes? But yeah. Chamon and Ghur(Beasts) are as average as they come. It's just that Ghur is more reliable. Both are B tier. Unless Gelt or Malagor(dhar'armiu!) in which case they are like SSS+. But I rate the power of spells, not of Lords or Heroes who wield them, useful as a guideline both for Campaign and for Custom Battle. Rune: Maybe so. But the Rune of Negation "tweak" pissed me off so hard, I almost gave up on Dwarfs! What a mistake that would've been(=no Thorek + Vortex, no Ungrim...yikes!). It's just disappointing right now and I prefer to go like 6+6+6 + Hero + LL(it's just so thematic most of time!). Maybe 5+5+5 + 4xHero + LL would be better for rework Dwarfs. What do you think about Oath+Steel on Rangers or on Slayers?

Rune Magic is worse than those frankly.

@@SilverforceX Rune Magic is good! And by that I mean that Rune Smiths are good. They have 4k HP and 120 armor and can tank enemy infantry like a boss because they are small and in an enemy unit of 120 only 4 of them can attack the rune smith at once. Scouts honor and all that. He is also small enough that he does not block the sight lines of the Quarrelers behind him that is doing the actual killing. The fact that he can also cast spells that cost no winds of magic on occasion is just a bonus. He also get an aura that reduces enemy armor by 15 around him. Further helping your Quarrelers.

@@chuckwood3426 That's fine but this is a tier list about the magic and not the caster himself, a death caster vampire hero fully leveled up is a melee beast, but that doesn't make the magic itself any better. The problem with rune magic is that almost nothing is AoE, even the Master Runes. If Rune of Slowness for example was a budget net of Amyntok and slowed down in AoE when overcasted, i would use the master rune version much more often. Runesmiths themselves have great utility, they can tank and buff the whole army, but that's not the point here

@@chuckwood3426 OK... that doesn't make the magic itself good.... 🤦‍♂️

@@Regnier575 But its the only caster in the game that can cast it other thatn the lord version? And Legend gave The Litte Whaagh A-status purely based on one caster and what it could do.

took me 2000 hours!

It isn't that good of a list tbh. He glossed over so many possibilities that I find hard to take it seriously. Especially the crucial omission of passives. Some of which are very strong(Fire, Beast, Gold, High, Eshin for example).

Why please explain.

@@bisonbob9092 It doesn't use winds of magic, is only usable by dwarfs, is the only "magic" dwarfs have access to, has a shared cooldown. It's not a lore.

I think it's mostly because it shares it's recruit slots with Plague. In other factions, or with it's own recruit slots it'd get ranked higher. Whether or not you agree with ranking like that is another question. I appreciate that he doesn't rank the lore 'in a vacuum'

For example causing terror for gobbos is pretty useful

@John Constantine *Miao Ying