Jak And Daxter 👏👏👏👏 Someone with a brain. Sure, parts of it may be Jacks already messed up psyche filling things in while repressing others. The Tanker Mission might have been completely VR. But, within the story, Raiden was trained by Solidus, Recruited by Cypher, and sent to the Big Shell by the Patriot A.I. on a mission with two purposes 1) To find out if Raidens training was actually enough to keep him under Patriot Control (edit: Patriot A.I. Control), despite being presented with the truth of his past and 2) To eliminate a group of soldiers (DeadCell and Solidus) that broke free of Patriot A.I. Control because of that meddling Russian Cowboy.

no it's just a video game simulation silly

MGS1 was a simulation too.

When you were playing it it was a VR simulation

@@893loses your fucking lives are a simulation

Also that, just like snake they appear from nowhere.

It wasn't. In MGS2's ending, it's clearly established that was real downtown Manhattan, just off of Wall Street. The reason why there's a lot of citizens going about their daily lives is because that's how that place is. It's very busy and that's the hub of it all. If you paid attention in the cutscene, a crime scene was set up around where Solidus died(or almost does anyway) over the Lincoln statue and Arsenal Gear's debris. Snake established he left a tracker, or simply tracked down where Liquid's direction to wherever he's going with Ray. Otherwise it'd be a Codec call if he was still on the move. It's likely the Kamov picked him up from Otacon. Not just that, but the theme and reminder of the game's ending stresses on finding what to pass on(genes). It shows New York to do this, and the characters are all there. They didn't go anywhere yet. Rose and Jack go on a date after Jack whispers something the player doesn't hear in her ear. Snake contacts Otacon in the post-credits "call" like MGS3(implying he isn't near him in a direct conversation like MGS4). That's all that can really be gleaned from why this isn't a VR simulation ending. The VR simulation comes from Raiden's manipulation of the AI during his life in New York with Rose prior to his Big Shell mission(the in-between 2 years backstory of them). It's stated in Codec calls Rose lived as an agent to spy on Jack-the AI telling him this, not Rose(or intervening if she's actually on it). She was also being controlled during all this, only being free by the end of the game and since she seemed to not know him, they'd try to reestablish a relationship(which obviously fails)because Raiden leaves her pregnant in the the five years leading to MGS4, also rescuing Sunny-presumably over guilt of Olga's death). I hope this answer thoroughly your speculation, and feel free to comment if you think differently. Disagreement does stir conversation, afterall.

As an admitted "MGS was a VR Mission" fanboy (it's jsut so much fun) I still liked your write-up and read through it all. It makes complete sense, don't get me wrong. But it's only out of necessity. That is to say that Kojima never intended to make a Metal Gear Solid 4. The 2 big statements he wanted to convey were about Genes and Memes. And he accomplished that. So when people talk about his Magnum Opus, they should always be referring to 2 in my book. The ending of MGS2 was supposed to be it. That's why it's so jarring and in reality, kind of depressing (Really depressing). In retrospect, seeing that Statue of Liberty, and the finality of it all, you knew that it was over. But the fans wanted more and that's why both MGS3 and 4 were made, actually. Is this partly Kojima's fault for trying to convey a message to a bunch of pre-pubescent boys (his main audience)? Absolutely. MGS3 turned out to be one of the best in the franchise (and Yes, it IS very good and incredibly memeable) so naturally more people gravitated toward it. People I knew in college who previously had no idea what "Metal Gear" was, knew of and played 3 almost religiously. The other thing is that 2 just plays like a VR mission. Everything is so clean and trim. I mean I could really go into this, but I'll just say that they toy with it a lot. In fact, when Plissken (Snake) jsut appears out of nowhere (a theme that echoes Lucid's point), he makes fun of Raiden talking about how realistic VR is. "A Virtual Grunt of the Digital Age, that's just GREAT" At the very end, he appears out of nowhere again for like the umpteenth time to console Raiden and give him practical advice when Raiden finally realizes he may be inside the Matrix. I could go into this more but it may be for another time. The last thing I'll say is that the game is actually a parody of MGS1 through and through. It's literally the exact same plot but with Raiden on a Shell. That's what's so damn funny about it, actually.

@@HomeStudioBasics mgs2 isn’t a parody of MGS1. It’s a parody of MGS1 being a repeat of MG2 which was a repeat of MG1, basically it takes the shit of the entire series and philosophizes about it

@@CCDaDon15Right. You know what I meant lol. For the latter 2, are you referring to the original Metal Gear from 1987 and then Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake? I actually just bought the legacy collection (digital version) and playing through the original games for the first time. I now completely understand why Snake was the way he was, and why he was so bitter for all those years after. Imagine doing a mission for your boss (big boss/outer heaven) going through the whole thing only to find out that he's the enemy and that you were tricked lol. Snake had every right to be as cynical as he was, but I'm glad he met Meryl who softened him a little.

This guy gets it lol

you can even get it in mgs 2

You can. You just gave me a flashback to back in the day when i had a cheat disc for the PS2. You could start with all the items including the highest level keycard. If I remember rightly you could actually go out to the Shell 1-2 bridge and see Snake going across it in the box.

lol i dont know about that... i got the bandana by collecting dog tags... after 80% of them collected, if i remember correctly, you ll unlock it... im not saying ur wrong, but i did that cheat on the first mgs and what happens when you use a high level key card in the beginning of the game, is that the game will automatically skips progress and you find urself in another part of the game timeline...

I may well be making it up but I seem to recall that happening. It's been many years since I played it, I might try going through it on an emulator at some point. I do remember that though, you could fly through the first game doing that.

Thank you

But it makes me wonder now, was it really Snake from MGS1 saying it, or the VR Snake from this theory? Either way it doesn't matter, but it really makes me wonder now.

FinlandjinM it doesnt make me cry because..."i dont have any more tears to shed"

We have been living in a society that dictates the media, political atmosphere, and ideals. Nobody is right or wrong it just depends on how much you believe that you are right and how much you are willing to sacrifice for your goals that you deem ideal. Everything we experienced through this life is ours, we we choose to do with these experiences living our life from now on is our choice.

It’s incredible...

KeithRose someone's beem watching super bunnyhop

I enjoy the debate as much as anyone else, but I also like how the game itself puts it "find the meaning behind the words, then come to your own conclusion". Like, the game is literally spelling it out like no matter what anybody else tells you, what YOU thought was going on, and the emotions, experiences and conclusions you draw yourself are entirely the point of the game. It's trying to get you to exercise the free will that Raiden couldn't. So you could take the experiences you had with the game and find your own way of interpreting it. The message is solid. @@MisterAK103 - What you said about Raiden being part of FOXHOUND is slightly wrong. Because during that early conversation between Raiden and Snake, one or the other is misinformed and it is definitely Raiden, considering the context of the rest of the game and how uninformed he is throughout. We DO realise that Raiden is a puppet of the simulation, but Snake is entirely right when he says "I thought FOXHOUND was disbanded". It harkens back to the earlier Metal Gear games when Snake was part of FOXHOUND and Campbell was his commander, it gives more gravity to Raiden's feeling of being a Legendary Mercenary if he believes he's a part of the same elite unit Snake was once a part of being commanded by the same guy Snake took orders from, despite - by his own admission - having never met the man prior to the mission. However, there is no FOXHOUND, only Raiden's - and the player's - desire to live out the dream of being a legend. Like most of the game, it's another deception; FOXHOUND doesn't exist. Oh, and I debate the idea that Raiden was ever working for the Patriots. "They died about 100 years ago" obviously references the Philosophers, and we all know the story now of the power struggle, but that's irrelevant as the game hadn't fleshed out that part of the story. The part that I latched onto was the idea that GW was fighting for total control. Even the President says he never met them himself, and that his orders were received via a cut-out. It seems to me that the orders were already being dished out at this point by GW under the guise of the "Patriots". Raiden being drafted in could easily have been construed by the AI. It was the AI's objective all along to attempt the simulation, and eventually override any human's input into how the history books were written, which also ties in to Solidus' plans. He wanted to hijack GW and use it as a bargaining chip so he could find "a place among their ranks". He wanted his name to be remembered. Ironic had he actually succeeded in hijacking it only to find out that the Patriots didn't exist. Of course, the President got roped into it because he originally thought his and Solidus' goals aligned with one another. But "I sought power, he sought destruction", and in realising what destruction would mean for society, chose to end his own life to prevent Solidus from achieving his goal. And that brings more questions as to who was right there? The President saw the benefits of the AI, opting to give up whatever power he COULD have had for the sake of maintaining society as it was, and allowing the AI to succeed. However, Solidus' ideals align more with your average person. Even Max, the creator of this video himself, says he'd prefer a world where he WASN'T controlled by the AI than one where his entire reality was meticulously constructed by one. So if anything...does that makes Solidus the good guy? And Raiden, by carrying out GW's final orders, also helps the AI succeed. So in a very Mitchell and Webb way, "Are we the baddies?". It's one thing I love about the MGS series. There's no outright good/bad guy thing going on. EVERYONE is in a moral grey area, and the game loves to play on that.

While I don't disagree with your points, the ship in MGS4 was Outer Haven not Arsenal Gear, that's why they don't look alike

Saying MGS2 is a VR because yes means nothing If it was a VR mission, the patriots wouldn't even have a involvement in it at all, MGS4 was ment to exist as we can see in some magazines on MGS3

MGS2 ain't a simulation, I haven't played MGS4, but the colonel constantly states that Snake and Otacon aren't part of the simulation, which means A simulation of Raiden dealing with that area does exist, but Snake and Otacon don't appear, in terms of the game being the last, it clearly left room for a continuation.

Never thought of it like that

So what does that imply?

@@CorfuGainz He had no choice to believe/follow the orders of the person on the otherside of the codec.

Such a bs theory😂

Lerpus B. Derp kinda mad that he didnt mention that pre rendered cutscene was actually the 10 min trailer teaser that was released at GDC back in 2000, but i guess it serves to the plotline

U didn't beat mgs2 in one night.....

whud does that mean

@@playstationplaystation3385 i believe he meant to say that the way the game was made and the story behind all the characters plots etc has to come from a tormented person. so he probably saying kojima is a demented sick individual. just my guess

dewitubeX1 Damn

I can't wait for Death Stranding

@@simorlc995 I think Death Stranding just further enforced that idea. Good heart, but torn and branded

loved your comment dude

Yeah, Snake speeches were a huge thing for me too. I remember I was playing this game for the story when I was starting my dream of being an artist and I was fucking scared because the dream was so big. "We can tell other people about - having faith. What we had faith in. What we found important enough to fight for. It's not whether you were right or wrong, but how much faith you were willing to have, that decides the future" and "Find something to believe in, and find it for yourself" Those kinds of lines were a candle in the darkness for me in those times.

In MGS2 Substance there's a VR sort of mission in "snake tales" which replicates Snake's infiltration of the tanker with slight differences in the story, like him using the MGS1 Sneaking suit and meeting Meryl on the Tanker. Anyway, this could be a reference to the VR Training Raiden has done of Snake's infiltration of the tanker

Max Derrat well your theory was right regardless. Because remember, as you said this was said to be the last game. I'm positive this game was left off to be interpreted leaving everything open, where it was at the time meant to be seen as a VR but because the 4th sequel existed, it was forced to retcon for continuity. I support your theory of what this was meant to be before hand.

Max Derrat one more juicy hole, the footage of snake with a FAMAS and escaping the sinking tanker was part of the trailers and promos, probably cut content or removed that they still wanted somewhere ingame because they didnt want to waste.

MGS4 and V are the kings of retconning.

That means that more than 1 game out the series was a VR Simulation. Video Game theory did a great video on MGS3 Being a VR Simulation for Venom Snake would awaken with the knowledge, moveset & ideals of Big Boss. Video link here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qbOEp7qJ2da9mIk.html Pretty Compelling stuff if you ask me.

Nihilzen But it's not correct. Not even close really

Who was Snake really? A killer or a stealthy philanthropist Saint?

A hero by accident, who discovered the truth of The Boss' will by accident.

+sdgundum990 how do you figure that exactly?

MGS3 The Boss makes her will known, in 4 we see the final pieces on the board in the struggle for control all due to her misinterpreted ideals. From the beginning Snake never wanted to be a hero, and in the end he persevered and ended the reign of the Philosophers. Without ever knowing her Snake ended the cycle. It's pretty obvious if you play 4 to the end. It's wrapped in a nice bow for everyone.

+sdgundum990 The cycle of revenge?

Oh, shit.

I had to like this to unlike it to like it more you legend

Steve Garvey he could be using that invisible camoflage as well. Couldnt he? Wasnt that something he did on MGS4 too? Or is all just gaming perks?

Confirmed Homoluden. Welcome Brother, to the Patriots.

lmao its kojima kitten

Because nanomachines

Maybe all the characters in mgs2 are in VR to a certain level, for sure the Patriots played everybody like a fiddle :))

I also think it IS and it ISN'T. Kojima wants us to feel like Raiden, not knowing what is real & what not. That being said... he succeeded.

@Context sickness ...or not. Making more assumptions ("I think we can assume"; "even if we don't assume"... ) doesn't help your Occam's razor point.

I just assumed he meant intelligence.

it's absolutely the most complex of the MGS games. Best story IMO.

TubbyGeneration135 I love mgs 2 and 3 equally, no preference, though i believe mgs 3 has more replayability. I must have. finished that game 25-30 times, and Im absolutely serious

It's not just that it holds up. It has actually matured very well over time and is arguably more relevant today with its themes of censorship and the control of information playing out almost like a social commentary on the current state of traditional, new, and social media.

yeah right

it doesn't just hold up to this day, it has increasingly become more and more relevant over the years.

DLFLux I forgot they framed snake as a terrorist for the tanker!

You can go on, I find this interesting

If Snake wasnt factored in then how was Raiden supposed to get into the plant in the first place? He got in because of the hole in the wire fence that Snake cut. He went in without any equipment to speak of as part of OSP. There is no Plant chapter without Snake. Snake is definitely part of the simulation. Unless you beLIEve the colonel ;P There is no merit or value to the disc, that's the entire point. It says the patriots are a bunch of 100 year old dead dudes. A junk disc spewing nonsense doesn't disprove anything. Its function in the narrative is to give the sense that the entire mission was pointless even for Snake and Otacon, nothing good came out of it for anyone. The VR simulation being the Patriots plan for societal control isnt evidence against VR theory it's evidence that supports it, derp Rose showing up just brings the unreality of the game into further question. Where in the holy shits did she COME FROM? how and why is she SUDDENLY in the new york financial district at the perfect time to meet up with raiden? Why is Raiden not questioning the revelation she told him about being a completely manufactured identity or all the crazy shit she was saying over the codec before and during the final boss? Her presence in the ending supports VR theory not disproves it. The flashbacks are flashbacks they have no meaning or purpose or input on vr theory one way or the other

@@randomfox12245 it’s obvious that Raiden was meant to cut his own way in, just because as the player you don’t have access to the tools, that doesn’t mean he wasn’t briefed and had the equipment available to get in. You’re missing the point about the disc. If the mission was VR, it wouldn’t exist in the real world. That’s the point. Again, they needed REAL data, not a controllable simulation. They needed to factor in the random occurrences that can’t be predicted by a simulation. Derp. Where did Rose come from? That’s an equally good question whether the mission was VR or not. Raiden knows the AI has been messing with him, so he knows a lot of what happened with Rose’ transmissions towards the end of the mission wasn’t actually her. She also tells him to see her as who she is. So yes, it does disprove it. Solidus; the dude was working with Ocelot during the events of Shadow Moses against the Patriots. Why the hell would he agree to enter a VR mission with them? 😂 If the mission was VR then the Tanker incident wouldn’t have been necessary to set up the Big Shell incident. I mentioned the flash backs because they were spoken about in the video.

@@randomfox12245 and why all of a sudden there are people walking around like nothing happened after the final battle? It doesn't make sense

We already know about the S3 simulation plan. This video attempts to bring up the theory that it is a simulation within a simulation. Picture instead of being on Big Shell or even the tanker ship, Raiden is in the area in Arsenal where you fight all the RAY'S.....THE ENTIRE GAME. The Arsenal room is just a gigantic green screen and while Raiden thinks he's running from strut to strut on the Big Shell, he's actually just wandering around in that huge room.

ConceptYT 🙌🏾💯

Damn... it’s true, it’s damn true!

Sure, dude! Any particular subjects you'd like to see tackled?

Sory I don't have any specific topics in mind but I just love those kind of videos (theories/analysies) and yours are really high quality.

I'm glad that the way I articulated the theory was able to stave off your dislike for fan theories temporarily. :) Thanks for the comment!

Dan Dan You just said what I thought. I just turned 12 at the release and English is not my first language so some things were a bit harder to understand. What a game. I never played V and I still do not see why I should. I watch videos of it now and then but I get 0 Metal Gear feelings. Such a shame.

i got so spooked i actually turned off my xbox ;P

I was 18 and spooked the same.

That's one more reason why people should'nt buy a playstation VR

Which game tells you an AI trained Gray Fox? I missed that detail and want to look into it

Thinking Thoughts howw??

QuickQuackReviews it's not true. None of MGS 2 is VR and 4 DOES negate it.

Benjamin Murray Do you know what "VR" means? Virtual reality. Do you know what a video game is? Virtual reality. If MGS2 (and the rest of the series for that matter) isn't a virtual reality, then I don't know what is.

+QuickQuackReviews Although I don't personally agree with this, it's a pretty cool idea.

GuyOnAChair ​​ I'd prefer counter-arguments over insults...

QuickQuackReviews You went so far off the rails. Its a criticism of sequals and hype. The entire series isnt VR.

Allow me to ellaborate further; If its all a VR simulation, Snake has already completed it countless times and has gotten himself the infinite bandana and stealth camo. In a sence he's mocking u if u havent aquired it yet, and letting u know its still around if u complete the game without killing any enemies, which u never really should in a MGS game if u wanna perfect your playthrough.

Pretty good?

It’s been a long time since I’ve had such a good fight. But I’m just getting warmed up!