Is rose a good or a bad person? Rose: *"I'm not a person..*

"But you will lose your TV privliges. For one thousand years." *_hiatus intensifies_*

If anything, her decisions paint her as impulsive, selfish and without any forethought. I don't think she was malicious, just horribly flawed.

The exact line Blue says to Pink in the flashback in can't go back, I think is Pink's primary motivation to fake her own shattering. "Just smile and wave, show everyone you're unfazed by this little uprising. Your gems will fall into line, and the crystal gems will be no more As long as you are there to rule, this colony will be completed" Pink took that last line to heart, and turned her thinking around. "If I'm NOT there to rule, this colony will never be completed," so she decided to erase herself. It was the worst decision possible because she assumed her sisters didn't care about her, despite the contrary, and she didn't think there would be any retaliation because of that assumption. She was wrong. She's not a bad person, she's reckless and impulsive. Pink is season 1 Steven.

The Best Answer is probably Chaotic Neutral

She’s an impulsive child raised by dictators who were seen as all powerful gods. She was basically a child god and didn’t understand how anyone else felt because why would a diamond care? But she grew. We see it in reverse, her becoming a more mature person but still reckless and flawed.

"Rose Quartz lacked empathy" Steven: *literally has empathy powers*

I think Rose wanted to have Steven because she knew that she was apathetic and couldn't understand love the way others around her did. So, in becoming Steven she could finally... Learn how to how love like others could.

One recurring thing I keep hearing in "the Pink Diamond reveal sucked" arguments is how Rose concealing this is supposedly uncharacteristic and contrasts with how we've been told for seasons how amazing and perfect Rose was. And like... That's the point, right? Not even the charismatic leader of the Crystal Gems is flawless, in spite of what everyone thinks - and that's totally okay. People being flawed leads us to new experiences. If every porkchop were perfect, we wouldn't have hot dogs.

5 things: 1) The zoo was built because Pink wanted to spare Earth. The diamonds interpreted that as preserving life by building the zoo. 2) We have her development in reverse. 3) She was raised by diamonds. So she was only following the only examples of she had been raised with. 4) The diamonds most likely wouldn’t listen, so they most likely would have colonized anyway if she said she didn’t want. 5) She wanted to help everyone, but she didn’t know how. She didn’t know what to do. She is flawed but definitely not a bad person.

If she told them she was a diamond, they might have killed Steven. They almost did anyways just thinking it would bring her back. Also, they literally had a whole episode from which the conclusion was "Rose had Steven because she loved him, not because she wanted to escape her problems," Storm in the Room. Also, if she told the Diamonds directly that she wanted earth to be free, not only would they probably have said no, it would probably have blown her cover as the secret leader of the rebellion and it would have been doomed without her.

I respect your point of view, but I have to disagree. Pink couldn’t really come forward and do anything as herself because none of the other diamonds cared enough to listen. Pink was abused by all of the other diamonds, being made to cry by Blue, verbally abused by Yellow or getting locked in her tower at the order of White. Like the episode said, her status as a Diamond meant nothing to them. It’s not that she didn’t trust them to tell them she wanted to save the planet, it’s that they wouldn’t have listened or would’ve punished her, took Earth and finished the colony themselves (thus destroying the planet). As someone who has suffered a similar kind of “upbringing” as Pink did, I can’t see her as a bad person. Being abused and pushed into a corner isn’t being a bad person, it’s taking the only option to freedom you have and not looking back

The most frustrating thing about this series to me is that ALL the characters are flawed, but Rose is the only one who doesn't get to remedy that because she's not around to :(

i don't think rose quartz was really "good" or "bad". she had a lot of good intentions that ended up hurting people badly. that's called a "gray area". so this argument is pointless. also, i don't think rose was ever in an official "relationship" with pearl? we don't see ANY evidence of pearl's feelings not being mostly one sided except when steven sings "and i love both of you" and you can hear her voice. THIRDLY: pearl said she didn't really mind those other human men because she knew they weren't actually important to rose until greg came along and was.

Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions.

Rose very much did straight up tell the other diamonds that she herself wanted to stop the colony to preserve life on Earth. "When she told the other diamonds she wanted to preserve life on Earth, they created the zoo and threw a handful of humans in". She took a stand as Rose Quartz after having her pleas ignored, then faked her shattering after Blue literally told her the colony *would* be completed as long as she was there to rule- when it seemed like the only option left. She didn't skip straight to drastic measures.

Susan Egan, Rose's voice actress, has come to her defense when people has questioned her morality, her intentions, and her love for both Steven and the earth, and while yes she may not be a writer for the show, she certainly has some inside info we don't.

the Road to hell is paved with good intentions

Is it possible that the human zoo was made by White, Blue, or Yellow for Pink as a gift when she said she liked humans? It also seems like it’s possible that her “excuses” weren’t so much “excuses” as actual protestations that were brushed off because of her childishness.

In my opinion, Pink Diamond didnt tell them the truth because she was afraid of her sister Diamonds. Its obvious that Pink was... Different than the other Diamonds. Much smaller. Overcooked. Like Amethyst. If we can take Jasper's attitude towards "defective" gems as any inkling of the Diamond Authorities stance on the matter, she felt inferior to the other diamonds and afraid of them as well. She came out wrong and they came out perfect in her eyes. If she couldn't prove herself as a Diamond, and play the role exactly how they thought she should have, then what place does she have in the Diamond Authority at all? If she can't look or behave like a Diamond, can she be considered one? If not, then she would be labeled "defective" and shattered, like all the other off colored gems that don't fit into the Diamond Authorities mold.

Her first exposure to 'love' was from the diamonds who treated her as a joke and a child. This left her with a messed up idea of how to love someone.I think she was still learning the proper way to love. nobody is 100% good or evil

So... Rose took impulsive & often self-sacrificing actions to try to do what she thought was right, without stopping to think about the consequences to those close to her. What was Steven's last character arc about, again? : ^ )

"Earth wasn't even saved" Sounds like Peridot's reasoning in It Could've Been Great. Which is unfair because it A) dismisses the life that got to exist in the meantime because of Pink and B) blames Pink for a malicious thing the other Diamonds did. Even if Pink had sat down and thought about the consequences of her faking her shattering, would she have been able to predict the cluster or the corruption? Was she even aware those things were possible?

Essentially those flashback scenes looking back actually contain a character Arc for Rose as she learned to understand others feelings during the relationship with Greg? Wow

Honestly... I don't think Rose was as incapable of empathy as a lot of people are interpreting it. Sure, a lot of human concepts were alien to her. But, just looking at the way she talk to others and her decisions during the war... For example - How she talked with William Buddy in "Buddy's Book" or with Pearl in "Rose's Scabbard". Heck... Even her decision to make a Rose Quartz persona, show the thoughtfulness to lead the Crystal Gems without forcing anyone to her will. If she just showed up as Pink Diamond, the gems would be forced to obey her. The entire decision of starting the rebellion has nothing for Pink in the first place. She wasn't even trying to stay on Earth (she was trying to leave). The line she said to Greg "funny"... Brutal as it sounds, it was funny. Adorable, even. A meaningless human, wanting to have a serious relationship with a DIAMOND. It's almost inconceivable. It's also likely that no human had ever tried to have a serious relationship with Pink, and nothing would ever work out because of a gem's immortal nature... Greg, most likely, already knew that, but there he was... Actually trying... And Pink understood him. They understood each other. If that's not empathy, I don't know what it is.

"Don't be silly...Rose Quartz isn't real..." I feel like there's still a lot to learn about Pink Diamond, Rose, and what made her make the decision she made. Rose is still my favorite character in the show, with Garnet a very close second. Learning about her flaws and history only makes me that much hungrier to learn more about the what and the why of what she did. And of course, the part everyone seems to be overlooking...Steven is technically a Diamond.

10:05 It was told to us in the show that Pink Diamond had virtually no authority (in the eyes of the other diamonds anyway), and that they wouldn't listen to her no matter how hard she tried.

I feel like people would always use the zoo against Pink although Blue and Yellow created it so Pink shuts up about the life on earth.

If Pink started the rebellion instead of Rose....would the gems wanting to rebel really trust her fully? Would they be doing it because they wanted to actually rebel...or because they were following the rule of their diamond...thus never actually being free. Pink would still have control over earth, etc. Also...how is Rose dating other people instead of Pearl...even if she was aware that pearl had romantic feelings for her.....show a lack of empathy? Like....she probably realized that her being in that kind of relationship with Pearl wouldn't be right, as the power dynamic would be super off...not to mention Pearl's obsession with Rose is just too much.... It wouldn't be good for either of them. And she has every right to date other people...like what is she supposed to do? Even if she did reciprocate those romantic feelings for Pearl....what is the issue with her dating other people knowing someone else is into her? She's not obligated to date them...she's not obligated to date Pearl if she doesn't want to. You not going out with a friend who you know has feelings for you, and going out with other people doesn't mean you lack empathy...it just means that you're living your own life. Sorry...that bit just really kinda rubbed me the wrong way.

Rose is just childish. She has good intentions but she always rushes through her decisions.

I found you through your "why a single pale rose is amazing" video and I have fallen in LOVE with your videos! They are so thoroughly thought through and carefully worded. You always raise great points and welcome criticism and discussion which I think is a breath of fresh air. Your honest, to the point, (and I find your voice very soothing) so thank you for making such amazing content! Love ya

I feel like Rose did love Pearl, but in a way you would love a loyal friend that you came to consider as a sister (or brother).

I just realized her gem is flipped like Spinel’s.

the song “love like you” i feel is rose singing to greg particularly because the line “if i could begin to be half of what you think of me” Greg briefly forgot rose isn’t a ‘real human being.’ steven is half human half gem, rose had steven and carries her gem so he can be the bridge between human and gems and learn to help them, learn how to love

Was she bad? Yes! Was she a person? No! I mean, she said it herself.

I think the contrasts between Steven and Rose have always been at the heart of the show. Steven’s development can be seen through his relationship with Rose (which is also his relationship with himself, figuratively and literally). At first, he is innocent and naive, believes what he’s told about Rose, the Gems, his past, etc. Then he starts feeling the pressure of who and what Rose was. He starts feeling insecure and worries that he’ll never measure up. Then, as he starts learning more about her, he starts questioning who Rose really was and wondering if she maybe wasn’t as great as he’s been told. At this point, he’s matured past the the point Rose ever did. He can look at Rose’s actions and evaluate them somewhat objectively. He sees the mistakes Rose made, and does what she never could-he takes responsibility for them. I think the show is again highlighting the differences between Steven and Rose. One of the biggest differences is Steven’s ability and/or willingness to take responsibility not only for his own actions and mistakes, but for his mother’s as well. Rose could never take responsibility. Good or bad person, I think it’s clear she was, at the very least, quite childish. She basically pushed all of her problems away and hoped she’d never have to deal with them. (This has been obvious for a long time-look at what she did to Bismuth.) Steven is courageous and willful, always wanting to find solutions to his problems. He doesn’t always find good solutions, he doesn’t always succeed, but he never runs away or pushes his problems onto others. The characterization of Rose throughout the show has been, in my opinion, quite brilliant. From the very start, something seems strange about her. For a character praised by her followers as so perfect, she comes off as selfish and weirdly uncaring in a very subtle way. When you go back and watch the way she treats Pearl and Greg, you can see it. But it’s so subtle, I mistook it for awkward writing at first lol. My friend got me into this show and I used to talk to her about this years ago when I was first watching the earlier episodes. Seeing the reveal and thinking on it for a few weeks makes me appreciate the way they’ve handled Rose and, especially, Steven. Can’t wait for the new eps! I think I’m more excited about this show than I’ve ever been. Keep up the great vids! You are great at talking about this, and I am excited to hear more of your thoughts and theories!

Gotta remember that the whole shattering thing was understandable in hindsight, because it's made clear that Pink was abused by her fellow diamonds. White was very controlling, literally, she took the original pink pearl, broke her, and made her into a puppeted husk. Yellow was physically abusive as seen in Jungle Moon, and while Blue obviously loved her most, she was mentally abusive, locking pink in the tower, for days, even weeks, and made her cry. I think Pink saw how free and happy everyone on Earth was and yearned for it herself.

I think that Rose's choice to fake her shattering was bad, but having read a handful of stories from survivors of child abuse, I can almost see why she didn't rebel as Pink Diamond. There was this one story about a person being so afraid of the potential of getting in trouble with their parents for going out of town with friends for the weekend or something and that anxiety led to them like, trying to find any and every excuse to try to get out of that potential situation. They had even tried to make it seem like they'd been attacked/hurt and therefore unable to go out of town, but more importantly that the reason for not going was not in their control. They'd also tried to come up with excuses to their parent in order to make it look like they had no choice but to go. Instead of just up and saying what they wanted, they tried to create a scenario where someone chose for them/would take the blame for the opposing party's disappointment or resentment or whatnot. The person felt awful about wanting to be deceptive but felt that was all they could do. The whole storyline with Pink trying to make excuses for not being able to colonize Earth (Rose was preventing it, not her! The rebels don't want Earth destroyed. They have an army now called the Crystal Gems!) It felt almost like she got so caught up in being unable to properly stand up to the Diamonds who were sort of coded as abusive (or at the very least an incredibly toxic family) with Pink taking the role of the abuse survivor. Like it was so ingrained in her that she couldn't make the other Diamonds budge on anything and that made her feel powerless. Out of her hate for that feeling of powerlessness, she literally abandoned her old identity and all the flaws that she saw in herself as Pink. I think she genuinely wanted to become a better person and that she truly believed she had no other choice. It doesn't make it right or kind or anything but selfish, but it takes a different kind of person to willingly start a fight they not only know they can't win, but one that might wind up with them being hurt or having something they love (such as her Pearls) away. I feel like Rose would have been a much better person to follow during Future- especially if the creative team wanted it to be a series about mental health and how mental illness can explain behaviors, but not forgive them. Rose would have fit the role future Steven played soooooo much better. And it also would've given us a chance to see how she thinks and acts for ourselves. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever get that.

Also, being unable to feel empathy for others and being unable to pick up on the emotional state of others are two very different things. Gems in general don't tend to understand emotions and human relationships very well without Steven link-between-worlds Universe helping them. Granted Rose did not understand Pearls feeling, but if Pearl had been straightforward with them instead of going around her back, it would have gone better. I know cause that's exactly what Greg did and it turned out that she did empathize with how he was feeling (in the episode appropriately titled We Need to Talk) when he said that loving her was like torture. She immediately feels guilt and regret for having done that to him, even if the complexity of his emotions still leaves her confused. She can't really understand intuitively how others feel, but she does CARE how others feel. Deeply. Sorry for posting so much in opposition to your point, I just feel like I'm coming to grips with my own feelings about it as I write.

i think rose's motivations for her shattering was actually so that the rebellion would be taken seriously, and she saw no way that herself as pink diamond could save the earth as we see that she spoke and pleaded with blue and yellow to not destroy the earth (and all that happened was blue made the human zoo for her). We see it time and time again that she wanted to be taken seriously "I'm a diamond, I'm just as important as you" and even with the rebellion the other diamonds just told her to act professional and all her gems will fall in line and the colony will be completed. Rose shattering a Diamond means that Rose quartz IS a threat. Finally, for once in her life, Pink Diamond / Rose Quartz was taken seriously. Once Pink Diamond was dead, she thought that was the end of the story. Rose quartz shattered pink diamond. Any change to that story, in her mind, could ruin her rebellion. I also think a big thing you missed in this video is that pink diamond is very obviously a child when she got her colony, probably the equivalent of around 13 or 14 human years (and a young adult by the time she meets greg). Of course she's immature and doesn't understand the consequences of her actions- she's young and inexperienced with the world. I don't know the exact timeline of this video being uploaded and what we knew at the time, but i do know that the very first we saw of pink diamond was her throwing a temper tantrum because yellow diamond wouldn't give her what she wanted (typical spoiled child behavior) Pink diamond is even dressed like a child! I have a whole working theory about Pink Diamond and growing up, and a lot of it centers around something i saw in a rewatch (can't remember the ep) but its when she first disguised as Rose Quartz just to check out the kindergarten in person and she's in such awe of how gems are being made out of nothing! how cool!! And then she sees the humans. She sees the life on earth. She experiences childhood disillusionment as she realizes that the creation of gems will destroy the life on this planet. Shouldn't she have known how gems were made? Shouldn't the other diamonds have told her how her world works? Pink Diamond was a sheltered spoiled brat who grew up and tried to fix her mistakes without really knowing where to start. She probably had no idea that other gems, let alone other beings had the same thoughts and emotions as her because no one ever told her. By the time she realized it, she had spent so much time in the mindset that only diamonds have feelings that it's a diificult habit to break, so she treats everyone the way SHE wishes she was treated (which. isnt what everyone needs or wants) A final note on the creation of steven- i think rose still harbored a lot of guilt for what she did to the earth and really wanted to give something back. How poetic is it, that a diamond made to rip the organic life from a planet instead created a whole new life? Anyway! Loved the video, keep up the great work!!!

“She did everything she could as pink diamond, but her status meant nothing to the others.”

This is even more complicated by the fact that Pink was emotionally abused by all three of her sisters, so I can’t really see what she’s supposed to mean. But I bet the point is she isn’t supposed to have a meaning to her, if that makes sense. Addendum: It’s been a year or so, and my thoughts on Pink and Rose have arguably solidified. She was a flawed being forced to be perfect, and any time she broke that facade, her sisters locked her in a tower for presumably hundreds of collective years. She cried so heavily that the inanimate pebbles in her sink’s basin came alive. One of her outbursts resulted in the permanent physical/psychological damage of her Pearl, which caused her to completely stop using any harmful powers. She was abused, and that to me is why her actions left many people hurt. Abuse, trauma, and the love that exists despite them are the main thematic elements of Steven Universe, and they apply to all characters. So I can say this with certainty: Pink/Rose weren’t bad “people,” they were just “people.”

The thing that gets me about a lot of the hate that Pink Diamond gets is based on this weird idea that because she was moving constantly towards self-improvement and managed to be both very charming and very reserved, she was obligated to be clairvoyant about everything that would happen after her disappearance and the future thoughts of others. She comes from a place of extreme privilege and misconception of what emotions even _are,_ she had to teach _herself_ empathy through cultural osmosis, after being shown no empathy by her family her entire milliennia-long life, and every step of her life is a clear journey towards her own idea of enlightenment: the experience of being an organically-living thing. The rest of the Gems in her life literally do not grow unless forced by outside circumstance because _being able to grow_ was Pink Diamond's greatest virtue. The problem with being a person who dedicates themselves to growing into the best version of themselves inevitably outgrows the people who were best for the prior best-version, and it's wrong to blame Rose for "abandoning" Spinel, who refused to just not follow her when she tried to leave honestly, or the Crystal Gems for taking their leader away without the truth, because as far as she could have possibly known, the conflict with Homeworld was permanently over. She had no way of knowing about the Cluster or that any of the other Diamonds might have a reason to deal with Earth any further. It's not fair to make her responsible for the reactions of other people just because she chose to climb down from the pedestal they put her on. Steven's dedication to the idea that "you can make it better, it can BE better" is entirely the influence of his Rose half, that's how it manifests: she has empathy now, and she prefers to be called Steven.

Did they just do something here with Rose that's similar to Luke in The Last Jedi?..... dang. I mean think about it, Rose and Luke were hailed as heroes and leaders in their respective Rebellions leading to victory. Years into the future we find out both were flawed and made major mistakes that costed lives and sparked a cycle of war. They began to learn from their mistakes and tried to redeem themselves whether or not they succeed. In the process, a new hero arises in Steven and Rei and learns from the mistakes of the past and bring forth a new era and end the war.

It seems to me that Rose Quartz/Pink Diamond was a child in a lot of ways. Throwing tantrums for not having her own world while being "just as important as the other Diamonds" but not acting like a Diamond/adult, lying and shifting blame so she wouldn't get in trouble, being a part of a group her family(Blue and Yellow as older sisters/mom-figures)would never want her to be around, running away from home to be with said group(life on Earth), changing her looks to express who she wants to be and not who she's told to be. We know when a gem is born, they burst out of the ground fully formed and knowing their purpose in life. The same could be said for the Diamonds. When Pink gets to Earth and sees how so vastly different life is for other beings and how humans choose their own way of life, maybe she wants that for herself? She didn't choose to be a diamond. She didn't ask for the responsibility of being a diamond. So Pink throws it all away and becomes Rose Quartz. A gem with a blank purpose, one she chooses. A gem who can change if she wants to. But no matter how much she deludes herself into thinking she's Rose, she's still a diamond. She has a predetermined use. She's only playing pretend. Thanks to Greg though, she finally starts to grow up a bit.

The answer is yes. Buuut, it was how she was raised as a diamond, raised to believe she’s above the common gems but below the other diamonds. I think it’s very interesting that she found love for life. She is definitely not a good person, but for what she was, she was definitely not a bad one.

I think this would be interesting to revisit now that the series has concluded [for the time, I hope]. Personally, I'm still of the mindset that she was a good person at the end of her life and really was working to fix her mistakes. But since we got her development in reverse chronological order, all a lot of us remember is the selfish brat who did what she wanted, and not the person who spent the rest of her life trying to fix her mistakes and protect the world that changed her. Did she do it well? No, I will admit that, but to say that Rose wasn't at least trying to be better is dishonest at best.

I never like when so many people would hate pink Diamond for everything she did and how she hurt and abandoned her friends and family to “run away from her problems”. So she has some flaws and is impulsive, plenty of the other characters are flawed in their own ways, especially in season 1. Pink had to make really intense decisions, like when she abandoned spinel. Do you really think she didn’t feel terrible guilty for that? She knew she would be leaving everyone she cared about, but she also knew she couldn’t go back. I just wish that people wouldn’t be so quick to judge her

Real late but, Rose wasn’t a necessarily “Bad” person, she was too young to make elaborate decisions, she was showed as a child, impatient, curious, and demanding, she couldn’t merely lead a rebellion by herself. She most likely had a ton of help from garnet (for future sight) and pearl (cuz she is a pearl) so Rose was very immature and very confused, she also had to face the role of being pink too, this is only my opinion and if you have any counter arguments please reply I guess.

I see her as an individual who do things with good intentions, but doing things without thinking about the possible large consequences of her actions at all, which makes her appear more selfish than one would want or expect.

Video: is pink diamond aka rose quartz a bad person Spinel: *puts hands together* SO

Is Rose a Bad Person? No...She did form the Crystal Gems and they do “Defend the Earth and all it’s living things!” but she is Ignorant of the consequences of her actions...Shattering her own Diamond and then leaving Steven to Deal with the Bullshit..very irresponsible.. And the situation with Spinel is am example of that...

Me: "Was Rose Quartz a bad person?" Me, after watching the movie: *WhY aRe wE dEbAtInG tHiS?* (Honestly tho, I think she's just ridiculously flawed and selfish but overral a good person )

Rose wasn't a bad person in the sense that she never meant to harm anyone on purpose. But she was a coward for not facing her problems. Rose kept Bismuth in a bubble for longer than she needed to. She forbidded Pearl from talking about Pink Diamond's shattering. She hid her true identity from Garnet and Amethyst for centuries. Rose was always hurting the people who loved her by accident, but she kept piling up those issues instead of tackling them.

People before: Yeah, she's not that bad. After the movie: YES! YES, SHE IS HORRIBLE!!!!

Pink and her actions reminds me of a child’s, which isn’t too surprising given that she was obviously way less mature than the other 3 diamonds for a long time before she gained Earth. Children don’t really think about how their actions will affect others and i know from when i was younger, sometimes it felt easier to say you lost control of a situation rather than owning up to certain things.

"Was rose quartz (or pink diamond) a bad person?" Spinel: *yes*

In my opinion, She was a good person who just wanted to make a change. You see Pink wasn't like the other diamonds. Pink never shattered anyone. Take Bismuth for example. Rose didn't want Bismuth to kill anyone so instead of shattering her she just bubbled her. Despite everything Pink did she just wanted to spare life in Earth. Spinel was also just left on that garden because Pink wanted to take her responsibility as a diamond and rule her colony. She just made bad choices.

She had no empathy or understanding of other beings just like the diamonds because she was a Diamond

“Rose can’t read minds” *Steven literally goes into another dimension where he can hear the thoughts of the people around him during a fight with the diamonds*

I don’t think she was, she was so interested in earth and humans, she wasn’t thinking about the consequences. She wasn’t the smartest person, she just wasn’t thinking about her actions.

There are hints that pink dimand was emotionally neglected and emotionally abused. I think this is why she had the need to escape from everything that had to do with pink dimand.

I don't think you go to war for cute puppies that you kiss and have babies with. There was something more to that. I think she just general of the Earth in the mystery of it. No one not even one of the Crystal Gems really understand what it is. They just know it's great and that's there's life. Everyone at the Crystal Gems had their own reason for protecting Earth

Rose: **exists** Fandom: BAD PERSON!! me: she tried...

Why does the poll only have a yes and no option. Where's the "morality is complex and subjective and Rose Quartz did both good and bad things. You can't ignore the horrible pain she's caused, and you also can't ignore her efforts to do good and become better than the society in which she grew up" option

I don’t think she lacked empathy per say, but that it’s not normal on Homeworld for a diamond to care about others other than prolly each other that was what she was taught and of course habits are hard to break she needed to be shown what empathy was taught it-showed what is right and wrong, considered normal and abnormal, what is sensitive and insensitive and so on, but she did eventually break them and she gained it, she got wiser from her time on Earth and from Greg. Her character development is in reverse

At the end of the day... We can criticize her decisions all we want but we never will walk in her shoes or realistically be put in the situation she was in to know how to go about it. Also, considering the THOUSANDS of years of abuse she endured before her "shattering" and giving birth to Steven, I don't think she's really capable of thinking things out correspondingly given the fact that she had NO support system besides Volleyball... Well until... Ya know...

Your videos are so in depth! I love them. They're really making me love Steven Universe even more :)

I'm not against rose, she was flawed and misguided like many of us. I don't think she had a lack of empathy, she just couldn't read emotions well which caused her to be a bit jerky and inconsiderate and i can relate to that (minor Asperger's). She had consideration for others which was highlighted by her healing tears she cried when gems got hurt and lion she brought back to life. "Villian" no, "angel" not even close, "like everybody else" yes

Personally, I think she was more or less morally gray. Sure, she did bad, but you can't discount the good because of it. I just wish that more people would see the good in her then the bad.

Huh, the way you described Steven's Birth ultimately leading to Rose's death was like the end of Revenge of the Sith... except done better :P

The fact that the movie encourages the fact that she does what she wants to the point of leaving anyone whi isnt of any use to her or makes her feel bad in any way makes her way worse than I thought she was.. Turned out my friends who initially thought that were right

Was she bad? Well Pink Diamond herself seems to think so (I'm thinking of the Love Like You song). If you ask me, I think she's about as flawed as anyone else on the show but ultimately good at her core.

I honestly can't believe that for over 6000 years they thought Rose was really good. 6000 YEARS They don't think or what? Rose was a war leader, obviously she has dark secrets

I think Rose *wanted* to be a good person. I think she used the persona of Rose to try and improve herself. I think she wanted to understand others' feelings. I think that was part of her motivation to become/have Steven. To be either born again, or at least be part of someone better. To be human. Humans were what she wasn't. They changed. They grew. They matured. She didn't. She couldn't. She tried to escape the Diamond mentality but she couldn't. Steven, though, is human. He's grown. He's changed. He has empathy. Some of his powers are based around it. Because of his humanity, he's one of the most selfless, compassionate, empathetic people out there. Even if Rose is gone now, at least, in the end, she's part of what she always wanted. At least, that's why I think she largely wanted Steven. Was there some responsibility escaping, selfish tendencies fueling it? Yeah. But I think her want to be a better person was a large part, and I think the persona of Rose was an attempt at that.

Like honestly she grew up with a Shatterer, a colonizer, and whatever tf White Diamond was on, and she STILL had enough inherit goodness to realize how effed up what was happening was, and the balls to actually do something about it. 1: If Rose did bring Spinel, a perfectly cut, PINK Spinel, who at this point is still all puppies and giggles and stuff, Spinel probably would've gotten herself or another Gem shattered. OR she would have blabbed that Rose was actually Pink Diamond, to the entire rebellion, with Gems like Bismuth, who wanted to shatter her. 2: Pearl. Rose and Pearl. Rose did not HAVE to like Pearl back, she is not obligated to because Pearl likes her. Pearl chose to be down bad for Rose, and Rose didn't. Simple as that. Remember that moment with the Zoomans where Greg said that HE had a say in their relationship too? It's like that. 3: And Steven! Let me say this: It was her choice. It had been over 5000 years since they last had contact with Homeworld, she may be a Diamond, but she cannot see into the future. Greg, Garnet, Amethyst, and Pearl were all fully functioning adults. A lot of the situations Steven had to deal with when it came to them (Pearl almost letting him die, then her trauma dumping on him, Garnet being a mess in front of him, Greg never taking him to the hospital etc...), that was THEIR fault, not Roses. They have their problems, and they are NOT Roses. If she tried to help all of them with their own problems, and put them first, she probably would have ended up like how Steven did in SU Future. (A mess.) She can do things that are kinda dumb (Telling Spinel to stand still of all the things was NOT a 1000 IQ move), and left a negative print on Stevens life, but she is only 1 being, and no living, feeling being is going to be perfect. And she had needs too, she just made sure to attend to them. (Not a direct response to the vid, but to the comments.)

To be honest, Rose seems like one of the more human characters to me. She acts like a spoiled teen. Spoiled teens are unlikable and tend to be the most hated characters in any given show, but they're not bad people. I knew plenty of spoiled teens who grew up to be good folks. I think a lot of the show's fanbase sees things in her they see in themselves they don't like, so she gets crucified lol. Plus Rose's/Steven's arc are reflective of a lot of people's journey with their parents. When you're young you really look up to them and think they're perfect, but as you get older you realize they're just flawed humans.

Considering how Blue addresses Steven in "Change Your Mind," I think she dismissed Pink's direct arguments, reading them as "excuses."

6:22 actually, it's possible that she didn't want to tell them her secret because of Steven; if she had told them she was pink diamond right before she became Steven, she would risk the crystal gems not only getting upset, but running away and leaving Greg to care for Steven alone; pretty much exactly like we saw Sapphire do in the trailer for the new episodes. She knew how much Pearl hated Greg, and chances are she knew that Pearl wasn't happy about her decision to leave her to become Steven; she could've been worried that even Pearl would leave once she was gone, and abandoning Greg to take care of Steven alone would've been potentially dangerous, since Steven isn't a normal human. She wanted the crystal gems to stay and be there for steven, both to protect him and to raise him, since there was still the danger of at least the corrupted gems, if not Homeworld itself. I personally think that her decision to take her secrets to her grave was a choice made at least in part to protect Steven, but that's just my unimportant opinion.

After the movie... Yes Yes she is

What she did to Spinel kind of seals it for me..

I don't think she lacked empathy because she treated the worms, Pink Pearl, and the pebbles with respect. When Pink did show her empathic side the diamonds would punish her. I think that's why she started having problems with empathy later on in her life and she believed that she was incapable of empathy. The Diamonds abuse ruined her. She wanted to give gemkind freedom and she wanted to save the Earth that means she had some empathy in her still but i think she'll think ill about her actions in her head. I hope Rebecca makes a tv series about PD's life because nobody fuckin understands PD. Rebecca said in the end of a era book that Rose Diamond was never in a good mentality.

I don't think rose was evil and during the end of her "life" she changed to a more mature character and felt guilty and ashamed for what she stood for and what she did as pink diamond so she never told her friends for fear of what they would think of her. I think after "we need to talk" she changed, slowly but yeah. She's not perfect but she's not evil

As always, your videos are good and super informative! But I'm on the fence with Rose/Pink Diamond as a whole. But I'll see what the rest of the episodes does to change that but I can't help but we wary of her at the moment.

She’s not a bad person. She had good intentions but was too childlike to do them properly. However we can argue about how there was NO WAY she woulda been able to bring Spinel with her

Rose quartz was a teenager who thought she deserved more then she wanted so she ran away from home and when she figured out that she couldn't run away from her problems she fixed them by becoming a teen mom

Wow someone who understands. I just found your channel today and I love it so far. Btw I love your gem character design. Very creative keep up the work!

It'd be interesting to see your take on this now with more information, seeing as some of your opinions here are based on misinformation. Things like Pink lying to the Diamonds about why she wants to stop the colony, when really their refusing to listen to her was what spawned the rebellion. And of course, Spinel. I don't think Pink was inherently a bad person, at least no worse than any of the other diamonds. She was well-intentioned, if misguided, and would like to see more recognition of her better side, since it feels like it's been all about the bad things she did as of late.

i don’t think Rose loved pearl like that though. She loved her yes but wasn’t able to love her more that just being a good companion

That moment when Steven is more mature than his mom...

I think the problem with the way that a lot of people view rose quartz is the fact that we saw her development as a person in reverse. The earliest scenes of her chronologically are the scenes of pink, the person she became was ultimately a flawed but pretty OK person. She had to unlearn a lot of toxic things and learn a lot of good things that she was never taught. She started to notice the injustice and horrible things happening around her and wanted them to stop she tried to go through things the proper way and it didn’t work out so she had to try a new way. personally I think rose quartz was a good person she had to unlearn being pink diamond and I don’t feel like she truly was able to do that until she met Greg she learned how to be rose quartz but still hadn’t forgotten being pink. As you grow up you learn things about parents that couldn’t be there for you and they’re not always easy things to learn it can be scary to learn that they’re so different than the idealized version of them that you had in your head but it’s never a bad thing to learn more Steven is able to see Rose differently because of all of the things he’s learned and I don’t think he sees her as a bad person. Sorry I’m rambling but just wanted to get my thoughts out there great video by the way

HUMAN ZOO WASN'T MADE BY PINK, IT WAS BLUE AND YELLOW REACTION TO PINK PLEAS TO SPARE THE LIFE EXISTING ON EARTH.

hey Lea, I know this is completely unrelated, not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just something I thought of recently, and I didn't know how else to ask. Do you have any idea what happened to WickedGeek or Chef Pyro? Chef's channel deleted all their content with no explanation, and it's been almost a year since Wicked posted anything, even on her tumblr.

Pink did what she thought was the only option in her position. She had asked to preserve life on Earth but the diamonds responded by making her a human zoo. She must have thought they wouldn't listen to her if she told them she didn't want to colonize the planet. And she probably feared that White and the other diamonds would punish her for rebelling as herself (taking Earth away and/or destroying it, taking Pearl away). Blue diamond even mentioned that White threatened to take away Volleyball if Pink didn't shape up. Pink didn't want the things she cared about taken away from her, like Volleyball probably was after Pink had damaged her. As much as I or anyone with foresight can sit here and say she was clearly wrong and had other options, that's not true. Pink whole heartedly believed this would be the end of her problems. She underestimated the love the diamonds had for her (to be fair though, if you were in Pink's shoes it'd be difficult to tell they cared because of how neglectful and cruel they were towards her) and didn't think they'd react as strongly as they did. So, no. I really don't think it was an obvious blunder on Pink's part in terms of deciding to fake her shattering.

Love your SU videos! I think Pink Diamond/Rose Quartz/Steven is a being that tries to become more empathetic (and more informed about humans) with each form. "If I could begin to be half of what you think of me, I could do about anything. I could even learn how to love like you."

Just found your channel. Gotta say I wanna love more of your content in the future~

I really hate how some hate Pink for leaving spinel in the garden. Yet spinel did worse such as wanting to leave Steven powerless on a half destroyed planet without any humans or his friends for something he didn't even do and no don't guard spinel by her being abandoned by Pink. And the diamonds shattered several gems and put their gems through a large amount of pressure. Pink isn't good but she isn't bad

*Laughs in Spinel*

Pink Diamond didn't ask for the Human Zoo though. She asked "for life to be spared on earth" so Blue Diamond built the Human Zoo for her. Just because it's labelled "Pink's Human Zoo" doesn't mean it was her idea

After the events of the movie this topic may need revisiting