I've seen countless screenshots of a NASCAR rule book that states that if a driver goes off track or uses an access road but DOES NOT gain an advantage/position as a result, NASCAR can choose not to administer the penalty. This to me indicates that it's clear that there is a penalty for cutting the course in any way if you gain an advantage. And just from a logical point there is not a single racing series in the world where that would be considered a legal move to go unpenalized. Common sense says the penalty must be given in some way. In IndyCar they may even just force them to drop back positions on the track rather than force a stop and go etc... I dont know why this is so confusing or controversial. If people were doing it all day Saturday and Sunday and gaining advantages and NASCAR wasn't doing anything about it then that's on them and they should be called out for getting it wrong.

Sunday morning if you watched the formula 1 race. They had the same type of access road if you blew the corner. They put 4 temp walls put up so they had to zig zag threw the run off. They had it timed so you didnt have to stop. But if you went fast threw there you still couldnt get back on track faster. Nascar just needs to put some barriers to make them have to slow down. But not stop. And the problems taken care of it. You all just looking into it to much. Nascar dropped the ball again!!!!!

Ross said F-this well in advance. He took a chance that there would be a huge wreck at the turn and NASCAR would give him a pass. He gambled...and it nearly paid off.

ross didnt really even try to hit the brakes with an attempt to make the corner

I appreciate that Mike is the only one on the podcast that will call Dale Jr out on his lack of remembrance.

You can tell most recently Jr is back driving again..!! Little diffrent attitude!!! Love it!!

Well said Dale! Thanks to all that make this cast and Dirty Mo super awesome!

Why isn't anyone talking about the rule that you cannot advance your position when driving off track???????

This call reminds of me what NASCAR used to say back in the early days which was 'not in the spirit of the rules'. That's a position that is so vague and gray that it is the perfect official position hold in order to make any call one way or another. :)

Dennis did it at least once and no penalty. I think Ross was wrong to think he could actually do that and be considered the leader, but Nascar was stupid and not consistent as usual on their judgment calls

Jr. is getting real fed up with Mike.

On Door Bumper Clear, Denny Hamlin even kinda defended Ross’ move. He said he was glad Ross did it first, because he was gonna try it, and if NASCAR made anyone stop one the access road before continuing, they would still come out ahead rather than go through turn 1. This track configuration is and always will be a disaster.

Mike constantly seems like he doesn't watch the race and gets a talking point from someone who barely watched it...

I Love this new segment each week... "WHO'S RIGHT & WHO'S WRONG...!!".. 😆

Am I the only 1 that seen Suarez interview Monday where he says him and Chastain talked about cutting the course to gain time on Saturday he had clear intent to miss turn 1 and gain spots

They are both right Ross slowed down waited till the guy in front of him turned in and got out of his way then hit the gas to take the access road.

Question for Ask Jr, Would you like to see a similar penalty for having both sides of the car cross over to outside the curbs like F1. In F1 you can only cross with both sides 5 times during a race. After that you get docked 5 seconds per infraction at the end of the race. This works well in F1 for keeping cars on the track. Thoughts???

Once again, Mike didn't watch the race.

on stacking pennies podcast with Reddick they said they had to do a stop n go in 12 for using that access road, the staff member said it was mentioned in drivers' meetings, so maybe they need to be handing out more penalties or be more consistent like Brad has mentioned.

What was said in driver’s meeting before race? Were they told if they needed to avoid accident they could use the access & the long way around is the penalty?

I LOVE THIS DEBATE FORMAT 😂

I feel like Mike is one of those guys that disagrees just to disagree

In NASCAR rule book there is a section on "Track Limits" There you will find the answer.

the 8 had no idea if he had to race Chastain or not. what if they knock each other off the track ?

I'm way with Mike on this one. I would say he was trying to brake just long enough to make it look like he was trying to make the corner or maybe to not hit the guy in front of him. 90% of his plan was to take the joker lane. But what do know?

Doesn't matter if he was on the brakes. Watch the replay: all the other cars can be seen either slightly turning (depending on position) or turning - into the turn. Not Chastain: he maintains a straight vector and drives into the access road. The access road is - not - the race track. A driver cannot claim that a corner will POSSIBLY cause a wreck based on the amount of cars turning in and simply take an access road. According to the NASCAR Rulebook the driver, if taking the access road is required to STOP at the end of the road.

Great discussion. Although, Mikey needs to put his big boy pants on sometimes and not be so butt-hurt thinking everyone is ganging up on him.

Do you have the clip where Dale suggests Ross and Denny teaming up lol

I agree with Matthew's remark it seems that Mike does not watch the race.

Dale, please watch the overhead video. Ross obviously faded to the wall to get around the 3, and then took off.

Thank you for the video.

How come no one in the booth seen Austin Dillion fallow Ross though the Access road but I suee heard motor mouth Jeff Burton calling it illegal before Nascar did

Davis-“Slowed down like a fat kid going to a salad bar”. 😂😂😂

Mike's failure here is the fact he admits he won't criticize IMS. As an unbiased observer you have to be willing and able to give constructive criticism regardless of the stature you may give something or someone. They can place offsets to allow drivers to correct mistakes when they do run off the course in known troublesome areas. After that particular corner they could have areas a driver can hold fast then merge back in and I am not saying Chastain was in the right by racing the leader here. But if they place a lane to move over in a couple of areas they can institute a rule you either give back the places gained in a specific amount of time or your docked by time itself.

you should start turning off Mike's mic until you've reviewed the subject matter together. I'm not even sure he watched the same race.

Of course I had no idea that the driver's had been using the access road all weekend but when I read a tweet before the race stating if you missed turn 1 you had to stop in 12 (??) that it would naturally apply, even for the access road. I even tweeted the quote to all the guys in the booth. I mean taking the access road "is" missing/cutting turn one is it not? 🤨🤷🏻‍♀️

He should of attempted the corner and cut through the grass. Bubba did it and improved his position without a word being said. It would of looked better.

How about moving the restart line to another part of the track.

Mikes a little salty lmao love this show

Bless your heart Mike!

Didn't another car blow through there a few seconds later? I thought I had seen a 2nd car miss the turn but I didn't see the outcome of that car because the cameras were all on Chastain, Reddick & the next turns.

You need to do a video discussing Bubba's shortcut across the grass. Chastain & Dillion were penalized by NASCAR but for some reason that I don't understand, the 23 was allowed to advance his position 15 positions cutting across the grass. 🤔🤨🧐

If you think Chastain didn't plan IN ADVANCE to take that road as a shortcut, I've got some ocean-front property in Utah to sell you! 🏁😮🏁

What do you do if your Tyler Reddick in that situation ???!! You race the damm car in front of you . WTF Mike ???

If y’all listen to NASCAR Radioactive it sounds like the spotter for Ross says “bring it down the access road.”

His mistake was not taking the access road, it was rejoining the race in better position than he left it.

Perfect Example. Monza T1, one of the most hectic corners in racing where people often have to just dodge the corner to not be wrecked out and you will never gain positions taking the run off. The run off is there for driver safety and in my opinion it’s wrong to discourage the use of the access road. Just needles increase of risk.

I love Ross. The race between him and Reddick on that lap was AWESOME!, even if it didn't count.

Mike has balls to talk like this about Driving a nascar race car do Dale Earnhardt Jr. I've never met Dale but I can say I don't want to debate this with Mr. Earnhardt. This is a great discussion you two.

This aged well

Damn mike!!!!!!! Come on dude

My thing to solve this is either 1 make them stop and go after they miss the turn or 2 block off that route and make them have to turn around and go through turn 1. There’s corners that have a run off road but you have to still turn around and go back through the turn in formula 1.

Next year they should put a stop sign at the end of that access road and place a State Trooper there to keep everybody honest.

I went to an scca event at indy, sat right down there by turn 1 (best seat in the house for sure) if two drivers were battling for position, and one if those drivers missed turn 1 and took the access road, the battle literally continued by turn 3 with no penalties.

He knew what he was doing. It was an if/then thing. If he got to the corner and there was room, he would’ve taken the corner, if it was 5 wide, then he had a plan because of a practice thing.

If he’s allowed to take the access road, why can’t everyone…. Why have a road race??

well, he got out braked and quit the attempt before the turn. in a track where that escape route wasn't there, he would've had to just give up position but he got beat into the corner and then did it with the intention to maintain track position.

Making up new rules at the end of a race, is very F1 like.

He took off at break neck speed and gained something like 13 positions. Surely NASCAR had to step in there.

If they go back they should move the restart zone somewhere else on the track, I know it’s a strange idea to put a restart zone somewhere else but the start finis, but it would solve this issue . Put a little flag stand up somewhere in the middle of the course and get the green waving at that zone

As far as I'm concerned Jr can say whatever he wants. He has kept me from from suicide before and will never know it. So I owe him. I've followed his entire career, watched him struggle after he ultimately (literally )watched his world suddenly get flipped upside down.. Go back and listen to broadcasts right after 2/2001.. and how much weight and pressure, JUST the broadcasters were (unintentionally I'm sure) putting on him. "Can he do it! Can he win again after losing..." I mean it sounds AWFUL listening to them at Daytona in the summer 01 race..What happened was devastating...and he wasn't prepared to take on the world..Looking back, I know "fans" were hurting..but HE WAS TOO and driving a 3400lb missle around ..NASCAR SHOULD HAVE NEVER let him or anyone get right back in ..there needs to be a grieving/privacy clause..or something. It's shocking to me at how many PEOPLE DO NOT HAVE a clue at much grief the drivers gave him at Myrtle Beach, for example..His dad just didn't "hand him a career" either. People talking trash over the years ABOUT HIS NAME... like is the man supposed to CHANGE HIS NAME??? TELL fans "hey don't root for me! I am changing my name!! " Ridiculous.. people can be so cruel and ALOT of poorer men than ME HAVE NOT 1/10000TH of the humbleness, or personality as Dale Jr.. If people want to argue BAD enough , about ANYTHING he says.. Go get their own show and they say anything they like. Like I said he's kept me taking myself out.Dale Jr. has saved me from the edge, I'm sure he will never know it, I would not WANT to EVEN THAT on him because I wouldn't want it misconstrued or recycled into more , even if a ounce , of weight on him . The dude is a class act AS are the guests, Mike Davis, The Gees, his cousin and uncle, Family and .. How many sports shows are this "real"? Anyways I have noticed since he has been a broadcaster he looks so much happier and sounds great. I'm happy for him. Regardless of whatever circumstances.. that's not important.. What's important is that I didn't harm me or destroy my family... So I always wish him nothing but the best.

They're in what, 2nd gear going into turn 1? Those cars have a fair amount of torque. It doesn't take much time, in 2nd, to pop back up into 3rd, and hit some major speed in a really short time. They're race cars, after all.

It really doesn’t matter if he attempted to turn or not. He gained positions by taking a access run so it’s a penalty.

Did the penalize Hamlin when he did take that access road early in the race?

I agree with Junior that it's a poorly designed corner for a "turn 1". I thought I heard that if you used an access road then you had to stop at turn 5/6, or other corner, to not get a penalty.

I think Ross cutting the corner was a calculated risk. He knew there was a chance NASCAR would call it, and he took it anyway. If he hadn't, he almost certainly would have been run over, probably spun, and quite possibly stuck in a worse position than he'd have been in without the penalty. A couple of the other teams outright admitted that they were looking at that access road as a potential option for avoiding a pileup in turn 1, and I'd be willing to bet that most of the others had that conversation. Loath as I am to agree with Logano on pretty much anything, I think he said it best: in his mind, Ross finished second, and I absolutely agree. NASCAR's decision to penalize him for taking the access road was chickenshit. He exposed a lack of foresight on their part and they hammered him for it because he made them look bad.

Bubba cut the grass and gained several positions and never served a stop anywhere! NASCAR just has a beef against Ross!

Thanks for the honest truth.

Run the current configuration counter clockwise. Add the old turn 4 chicane back to the course

NASCAR could also put up some sort of tire stack chicane that the drivers have to go around to make sure that they don't come out ahead of where they would have been, kind of like how it is at the first chicane at Monza.

Even when yr Sim racing. Turn 1 is a joke. It's a terrible corner.

Miss the chicane at the other rovals and you have to come to a complete stop. I think they should have the same rule for Indy.

Am I the only one that thinks that there’s a hell of a lot better people to have on this show other than Mike

What happened to coming to a stop when you miss the corner?...lol

Noooo Chastain stabbed the gas before starting to turn. He may have been braking next to the others however he bailed on the turn. Great debates this week

Doesn’t nascar have on board telemetry to look at. He put himself way out there, knowing it was the worst line to make the corner. He knew what he was doing. Did bubba stop in turn 12 after gaining spots? Asking for a friend

There was several cars throughout the weekend that didn’t attempt to turn they went straight through

Now what would have happened if Riddeck and Chastain would have wrecked each other. That would have been an ugly situation for NASCAR.

Premeditated, "just in case I can't make it" move. IMO, if he was braking he wasn't slowing down.

Turn one is a right hand turn.....what could possibly go wrong? 😉🤣🤣🤣

The way I see it is: He made the right call to save the car. BUT by coming back onto the track and GAINING positions, it should be treated the same way as advancing positions by going under the yellow line. Penalty gets added. Also, I think the biggest issue is that when something like this comes so close to the end of the race, I don't think that NASCAR really has the time to both call the penalty AND enforce the penalty before the checked flag comes out. I mean, even if they threw the black flag for Chastain, would he have enough time to come by and see the flag AND then stop/go for the penalty to come back out BEFORE the checked flag came out? Again, the issue isn't using the access road to avoid an accident or purposefully wrecking another driver.... it is the gaining of positions that matters.

I love road course racing, but Indy needs to be run the opposite way and use the access road that Chastain took as the race track and the current turn one part of the track as the entry to pit road. Simple.

If Matthew sees this hope you do great buddy!

I think it shows Chastain’s mental capabilities. First that he would pre meditate that move, and second thinking he could have gotten away with it, when he failed to bring his car to a complete stop. Chastain’s spotter or crew chief told him about Denny going through the runoff road, gaining positions without stopping. You know he was thinking his rival did it so I’m going to do it also.

To Dale's point that is a terrible corner, funnels way too hard. Chastain should have slowed his vehicle more, like a rolling stop. Once you made the decision to take the access road during a race, you should have it implemented into the gameplan to intentionally slow down. It's a gentlemanly gesture to do your best to put yourself back into a realistic position in the race, as if you would have survived the turn.

So what did Mr. Chastain know, and when did he know it?

Just gotta get all the details from watching the race

Haha I listened to this live and said oh here we go again, the old married couple are bickering again at one another. I said GET HIM JR SHOW MIKE THAT EARNHARDT AGGRESSION

Not sure I agree with Junior. I'm no racecar driver, but I know Chastain sure flew off my screen like he knew it was coming.

Dale, I luv ya man, but I think you’re wrong here.

But did those other cars gain positions. That was the deciding factor.

I don’t know why this is even a discussion. Does access road sound like race track? The racing is done on the track.

there’s a huge difference between being out braked and people not braking and just sending it into your door and using you as their brakes to make a turn, at least 4-5 cars did that on both of the last two restarts, he knew their would be a wreck their and rolled the dice on nascar not penalizing him as people had used the access road the same way all weekend, they gained a lot of time doing it, just not as obvious bc it wasn’t a restart. If they weren’t going to penalize it all weekend and he’s already locked in and has two wins, I don’t blame him at all for taking the gamble, as it almost paid off

This isn’t a turn one problem. This is a bunch of clowns making no effort to get through the turn. These guys were capable of making that turn all through the race, but all of the sudden they can’t navigate turn one in the final laps? I don’t think so. All those drivers dive bombing the inside should be embarrassed.

Mike and Dale, tension is building here.

What if they ran that track in the opposite direction?

Mike!! Cmon Devils advocate! But this is what makes the show awesome!! Mike speaks and all the other guys are like turning their heads and say what.. hmm. Too damn funny

The mind of a racer knows the mind of a racer. The mind of a spectator knows the minds of a spectator. I'll side with Dale on this one.

Mike has lost all common sense.

You could tell in his interview that he meant to do it..