Good catch there.

Yoooo i never realized this

Mind blown

GRRM, you absolute magnificent bastard...

The Lord of the Crossing game was in ACOK, then later on in ASOS when Rob and Cat arrived at the twins Cat asks for bread and salt to which Walder replies: "Food, heh. A loaf of bread, a bite of cheese, *mayhaps* a sausage." It wasn't until my third reread of the books that I noticed it after having delved more into the lore and are scrutinized the books more. Walder was definitely using the rules of the game to relieve himself of guest rights. There's a lot of little details in the books that I completely missed that are like golden nuggets when reading inbetween the lines, it took me a lot longer to finish the series but I found a lot more subtle hints. GRRM is a genius when it comes to planting the seeds of what eventually become notable events. It gave a whole new meaning to his "gardening" style of writing for me. Note: also find it humorous that "The Lord of the Crossing" is basically a medieval version of "Simon Says" which traces its roots back to ancient Rome.

Robb would have lost that tbh. Attacking most Caitlin is just not happening and Riverun would be gone in a month. Robb lost the war when he gave Theon away

I've often thought that in ASOIAF, every character is written as if they're the protagonist of their own story. They fully expect to survive, to progress through their character arc, and to fulfill any prophecies or expectations. So they'll have plans, and plot arcs, and alliances set up, even if G.R.R. knows that some other character is about to stick a sword through them in the very next chapter

I haven't ever rewatched the series so most of the foreshadowing is not there, but they did show Roose allowing Jamie to continue on to KL.

even in AGOT when some Freys are in winterfell, they're playing a game called "the lord of the crossing" and everything is forshadowed there lol EDIT nvm it's in ACOK I thought it was in AGOT

​@@pcharl01Wasn't Tywin writting a letter for either the Freys or Boltons during his meeting with Cercei to talk about the inheritance of The Rock? I always though that at least.

Except when Roose lets Jamie go. I'm on a rewatch and can't believe how obvious that was when watching it the first time.

Rat king?

@@nunyabiznes33 A rat king, eating pies?

I don't think he was really a "rat bastard." Walder Frey was a man looking out for his family's interests. What Robb did to them shamed and robbed from their house. Robb broke the rules, and so therefore Robb was no longer protected by the rules. Robb got exactly what he had earned. Robb may have been a kid, but Robb was not _behaving_ as just a kid...he was eagerly playing a man's game.

@@mbryson2899 As a noble house, the Starks rank considerably higher than the Freys. The Freys are considered an opportunistic and upstart house by the other families in Westeros. Although their family is large, Freys never claim to be descended from any notable heroes or conquerors. They’ve only been elevated to nobility due to their ability to collect tolls. Breaking an oath to Walder Frey was dishonourable, but most would consider it a minor infraction. Walder has failed to honour his duty multiple times by not raising his banners when called upon in times of war. He basically extorted Cat and Robb before letting them cross. The Starks by comparison are universally respected, even by their enemies. They’re a well-bred family with legends that date back to pre-recorded history. In this setting, the Freys murdering the Starks would basically be like peasants murdering a royal family.

@@urthofthenewsun8465 Robb was a proven oathbreaker. As such he proved himself unworthy of the Stark name. You see it as peasants against royalty. I saw it as nobility behaving lower than a peasant. Robb got what he earned.

Yeah half the video points are lines that could reference anything without knowing the end point. This is not a dig. The other half is foreshadowing and the reinforcing catch all points are great once the reader reaches hindsight

It compleatly depends on how careful a reader you are, it is heavely foreshadowed, but so expertly, that most hints only point to something being about to happen but not what, and the what clues only adding up in retrospective. Everyone and their mother should have known, that walder was up to something, what made the red wedding shocking though was how extream it was through breaking the one single rule of safety....so yeah, I waited for the whole thing to come crashing down hard for quite a long while, but just the way it did was shocking anyway.... Something was obviously going to go wrong at that wedding

Or the house of the undying. Or patchface. Or the ghost of highheart. Or Tywin turning down Balon for help because he has his own plan. Or that Roose let Jaime go. Or that Roose went wolf hunting after he finds out about the wedding of Robb and Jeyne. Or when Roose lies over and over about sacking and putting a castle to the sword and torch in the name of robb and telling 1/3 of his footman to go to duskendale to sack it in Robb’s name and Tywin knew exactly when and where they would he so they couldn’t retreat. Many others.

@@johntorres2565 very much so. It’s interesting, he did point out hindsight is 20/20 but either way there most definitely was foreshadowing 😆

​@@mysteryman4013it's only ever in hindsight we see foreshadowing, otherwise it's plot.

All great comments. I think it's time for a re read. You'd think I'd read them enough by now 😁🐦‍⬛ I married a man with last name McDonald, and weirdly, so did my best friend. Her husband told me to never eat Campbell's soup. I didn't know why. I think George got this idea from that actual history. Y'all know how much he does that🤷 he's such a great writer. See, I forgot about the wolves. Need a reboot

@@ShadeoftheEvening I see what you did there

A detail about Duskendale that Robert omitted is that Roose cleverly hides his responsibility for it, allowing Robb to assume that Robett Glover made that foolish decision on his own. Robb's fury with the Glovers is, if anything, the first glaring example of Roose' treachery, a direct contradiction of what we as the audience know to be the truth if we remembered from one book earlier. (There are a lot of "R" names in that paragraph 😅)

Holy shit, I never noticed that. Amazing catch

That's so very good. I consider myself unnecessarily well-versed in the Frey family tree, but that simple linguistic slip by GRRM got right past me on two reads. I'm in your debt for pointing that out.

Although it's implied he would have recovered from his wound had he not been poisoned by a relative

Nice. Its one of those small details that might genuinely have been a mistake but still fits so well with the story. Freys are known to even play a game about lying and tricking people, so its safe to assume all Freys are capable of convincing dishonesty. One slipping up by saying father instead of grandfather makes so much sense.

Nor did Catelyn ever learned Freys' family tree. During the Red Wedding they had to correct her twice! So much for her respect toward and important ally. She despised them, so she badly underestimated them.

Like his father, he didn't know how to play the game of thrones...

@@AtakenSmithnah Robb just didn’t have common sense. 1. Gave away the only son of balon Greyjoy trusting the Greyjoy’s of all people to deliver Him ships. 2. Not telling Edmure of his plans was just plan idiotic and Edmure gets punished for it.

@@smallbudoo I agree with the 1. One, it was naive to let him go and believe he will come back to help him. The 2. He actually told him to stay put and hold the fort. He Couldn't risk the plan being found out.

@@AtakenSmith Telling Edmure wouldn’t leak it. He’s competent enough to atleast tell him orders to stay at Riverun no matter what happens.

@@smallbudoo I have a very good but long answer for you, it's your decision if you read it. It's from a forum.: "Before Robb leaving for the Westerlands, Edmure had pressured him to free the riverlords to take back their lands, so Edmure only has garrison, and not a true army to defy Tywin. “And whose doing is that?” Catelyn snapped at her brother. It had been at Edmure’s insistence that Robb had given the river lords leave to depart after his crowning, each to defend his own lands. Ser Marq Piper and Lord Karyl Vance had been the first to go. Lord Jonos Bracken had followed, vowing to reclaim the burnt shell of his castle and bury his dead, and now Lord Jason Mallister had announced his intent to return to his seat at Seagard, still mercifully untouched by the fighting. Robb at this point does not have the plan to lure Tywin in conceived yet, he wants to take the Golden Tooth and neutralize Stafford's army before it's ready to march. “By now Robb is at the Golden Tooth,” Theon said. “Once it falls, he’ll be through the hills in a day. Lord Tywin’s host is at Harrenhal, cut off from the west. The Kingslayer is a captive at Riverrun. Only Ser Stafford Lannister and the raw green levies he’s been gathering remain to oppose Robb in the west. Ser Stafford will put himself between Robb’s army and Lannisport, which means the city will be undefended when we descend on it by sea." Robb ends up by passing the Golden tooth and after the battle of Oxcross, Robb starts to take several castles, and at this moment I imagine that he realized that the Westerlands, were defenseless, and started to plan how to draw Tywin. And then he starts to go for the gold, raids and cattle. The only mystery is how your brother reached him. Our forces still hold the stronghold at the Golden Tooth, and they swear he did not pass.” The dwarf gave an irritated shrug. “Well, Robb Stark is my father’s bane. Joffrey is mine. Tell me, what do you feel for my kingly nephew?” “My lords,” he said gravely, “we have had a message from His Grace, with both good news and ill. He has won a great victory in the west, shattering a Lannister army at a place named Oxcross, and has taken several castles as well. He writes us from Ashemark, formerly the stronghold of House Marbrand.” It is now that it get's weird, Robb is sending his commands, and informing his vassals of his next target. We know that Mormont is leading the stolen cattle to the riverlands, and yet we are told that he cannot be reached, and he also does not inform of his plans. If you want to blame Robb this is the moment he should inform about his intentions. “Robb should know of this at once,” she said. “Do we know where he is?” “At last word he was marching toward the Crag, the seat of House Westerling,” said Maester Vyman. “If I dispatched a raven to Ashemark, it may be that they could send a rider after him.” Edmure at this point is starting his plan to deal with Tywin, he is commanding Roose to take Harenhal, but he does not try to inform Robb, he even expect Robb to come and help him, even though he can't be reached and never talked about such plan and is now marching in the oposite direction, Tywin still in the south and has not started his march. Edmure is going out of his way to seek battle. They were all her father’s bannermen, lords of the Trident. Most had left Riverrun before she had, to defend their own lands. If they were here again, it could only mean that Edmure had called them back. Gods save us, it’s true, he means to offer battle to Lord Tywin. “Can Robb be reached by raven?” “He’s in the field, my lady,” Ser Desmond replied. “The bird would have no way to find him. And then Edmure starts his blunder, he still does not have his army with him, they are still gathering, Robb never get knews of this, as far as he know Edmure only has his garrison to hold Riverrun as he was ordered. Edmure is going against his command and going to the offensive. “Cat,” he said unhappily, “Lord Tywin is coming-” “He is making for the west, to defend his own lands. If we close our gates and shelter behind the walls, we can watch him pass with safety.” “You do not have the strength to meet the Lannisters in the field,” she said bluntly. “When all my strength is marshaled, I should have eight thousand foot and three thousand horse,” Edmure said. It's not Robb who has to tell Edmure anything, is Edmure that has to tell Robb about his intentions, his plan even depends on Robb helping him. Robb’s won his battles against worse odds,” Edmure replied, “and I have a plan. You’ve forgotten Roose Bolton. Lord Tywin defeated him on the Green Fork, but failed to pursue. When Lord Tywin went to Harrenhal, Bolton took the ruby ford and the crossroads. He has ten thousand men. I’ve sent word to Helman Tallhart to join him with the garrison Robb left at the Twins-” "Bolton needs Frey’s men, and Ser Helman’s as well. I’ve commanded him to retake Harrenhal.” “That’s like to be a bloody business.” “Yes, but once the castle falls, Lord Tywin will have no safe retreat. My own levies will defend the fords of Red Fork against his crossing. If he attacks across the river, he’ll end as Rhaegar did when he tried to cross the Trident. If he holds back, he’ll be caught between Riverrun and Harrenhal, and when Robb returns from the west we can finish him for good and all.” "

you didn't exaggerated at all

I remember being completely sickened when Arya, in the following chapter, saw the pavilions in which the Stark soldiers were drinking collapse and you know they are being murdered too.

I know how you feel!!! I felt the same when I got to the end of Fire and Blood. My heart was legit broken for days 😂

Are you joking about a book ruining your holiday? That's pretty immature

Cat doesn’t feel the chainmail on Roose in the books. He had already excused himself by that point and showed up later to stab Robb. I forget which one but one of the Frey’s went to close the door when she grabbed his arm she felt the mail and slapped him

@@jaredwat8478 Damn mixing up books and show lol! In my defense it was many years ago and I haven't read again that chapter since.

@@d00mf00d I was not joking at all, it was already a very difficult time for me and reading that chapter in that moment really affected me.

Damn

Add to that not raising the alarm and inform 5 lords like Ned told her to. Negotiating a ridiculous deal with Walder. Basically declaring for Renly when she rode to that meeting... Catelyn is dangerously foolish and a bad Mother to boot.

She's not dumb, but she's very impulsive and somewhat less intelligent than she thinks she is. As her PoV chapters are, well, from her point of view, she can come across to the reader as being the smartest person in the room, but she rarely is (unless the other person in the room is her sister).

Yeah, Catelyn just casually strolls from one disaster to the next. And even as she claims she is doing it all to protect her children, as readers we actually know that each foolish move she makes puts them in more danger. Her kidnapping Tyrion has the feeling of the Star Wars alternate ending meme - I can totally see Tyrion not noticing her, followed by "and they all lived happily ever after."

Walder Frey also slips in a mayhaps when he is giving his speech to Robb right before the betrayal

@@SirSoup3 I didn't notice it. Sneaky old fart.

And also not telling Edmure of his plans.

The latter seasons of the TV show has been how I remember the series for the last few years, and it's startling to suddenly remember that it really actually was very good

But even there you know to expect a double cross from Walder

Indeed. Catelyn THINKS she's smart, which is why she can come across as such in her chapters. Reading between the lines, though, there are plenty of indications that her intelligence is only superficial, and that she is impulsive and lacks strategic sense. The AGoT chapter where she decides to take Tyrion prisoner moments after thinking to herself "wow, the geopolitical situation sure is tense, I hope nobody does something dumb and starts a war" is a great example, as is releasing Jaime from captivity.

​@@davidevens2954I don't think she's dumb but she makes shocking decisions. Though I admit she does seem to be intuitive in a spooky way. Just like Melisandre interprets it wrongly.

@@tuulenkoti rather like Robb, she's capable of outwitting her opponent in a tactical battle, like when she kidnaps Tyrion, but she makes very bad strategic decisions--also like when she kidnaps Tyrion!

Good catch on the Hornwood bit! Never thought of it that way!

Good to know I wasn't alone in that! 😂

Me too!

Oh but you must read the books! They are the best literary fiction ever written. Truly you will not be disappointed. The books flow so well you will be finished before you realize it!

She foreshadowed a lot.

Didn't Robb later admitted it was a mistake not immediately trading away Jaime for his sisters? He definitely could have used them for political marriages.

@@nunyabiznes33 , I can't remember if Robb admits that or not. I assume if he did, he would have been admitting that to his mom, so maybe it is in one of her chapters? And really trading Jamie is the only thing you could do with him. Killing him is not an option, no matter what his bannermen want. I might need to read the books again...because now that I think about it..I am drawing a blank on Lady Stoneheart and that whole thing.

trust me, you don't

Oh I like that!

Maybe no one bothered, not even the crown? Or maybe it really was just not conducive to building bridges in that area? The Frey's whole schtick was they succeeded where no one thought it was possible and -preserved- persevered through all the ridicule until finally everyone had to begrudgingly accept they were right. But yeah maybe eventually someone would have the idea to build another bridge somewhere between the Twins and the Ruby Ford, especially after the Red Wedding caused a scandal.

Cat really messed up the whole northern campaign huh...