Was this famous war photo staged? feat. Errol Morris

Рет қаралды 2,724,673

3 жыл бұрын

The obsessive journey to answer one question: Which of these photos was taken first?
Subscribe to our channel! goo.gl/0bsAjO
Roger Fenton’s 1855 photo “The Valley of the Shadow of Death” is the first famous photograph of war, depicting a barren road littered with cannonballs fired during the Crimean War. But there’s a second photo of the same road with no cannonballs, which has led photo historians, and, notably, American writer and filmmaker Susan Sontag, to claim that the famed photo is staged. Meaning, the photo with no cannonballs was taken first, and the photo with cannonballs was arranged and taken second.
American documentary film director Errol Morris went down a rabbit hole of interviews and photo analysis to determine if that order of the photos - with cannonballs “OFF” the road first, then “ON” - is accurate, based solely on what’s present in the photographs themselves.
Errol Morris’ New York Times essay, “Which Came First?”
Part one: opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...
Part two: opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...
Part three: opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...
Fenton Crimean War Photographs at Library of Congress:
www.loc.gov/pictures/collecti...
Darkroom is a history and photography series that anchors each episode around a single image. Analyzing what the photo shows (or doesn't show) provides context that helps unravel a wider story. Watch previous episodes here: • Vox Darkroom
Vox.com is a news website that helps you cut through the noise and understand what's really driving the events in the headlines. Check out www.vox.com.
Watch our full video catalog: goo.gl/IZONyE
Follow Vox on Facebook: goo.gl/U2g06o
Or Twitter: goo.gl/XFrZ5H

Пікірлер: 2 200

@Vox 3 жыл бұрын

We just launched our official online store! Get your Vox tees, hoodies, hats - and exclusive Vox Atlas, Earworm, and Missing Chapter stickers - all in one place at www.vox.com/shop

@hansolowe19 3 жыл бұрын

They should figure out where the British and Russian camps were, they are heavy so if Brits carried them (russian cannonballs) to use in their own cannons then this road might have been a stop between the collection point and the British artillery.

@bpqd2624 3 жыл бұрын

ok so journalism has always be about making the story so it can sell better rather then truthful retellings of events. says a lot about modern mainstream media journalism.

@samardhaliwal3702 3 жыл бұрын

Can you please do a video on the state of farmers in India and how indian government had passed a bill to amend farmer laws recently and the backlash from the farmers all over India.

@juangarcia-kq8zp 3 жыл бұрын

Have you ever seen photos of corpses who died from typhus, but were claimed they died from gassing?

@naimma9356 3 жыл бұрын

Anti capitalists :)))) look at them. :)))))

@animeyahallo3887 3 жыл бұрын

Vox answering a question I dont even know exist.

@Khasidon 3 жыл бұрын

The same thing happened in a lot of the photos from the American Civil War.

@mihailojovicevic5576 3 жыл бұрын

Well because in the video they put the question and answered it

@Munchausenification 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah most of the time these kind of stories interest me, but not this one.

@jsalsman 3 жыл бұрын

@@Munchausenification same, this is way too obscure with no possible implications.

@jatinrustagi9763 3 жыл бұрын

Yukino?

@alexspander7798 3 жыл бұрын

fenton: *takes 2 photos* historians: *Vsauce music*

@i.pezzotti853 3 жыл бұрын

I DON’T NEED SLEEP, I NEED ANSWERS

@sniper7847 3 жыл бұрын

كل خرا

@youngcaptainkeos2133 3 жыл бұрын

i am like why would people even give sooo much interest about 2 photos and which came first, this is like if they were doing extensive research on which came first the chicken or the egg. lol

@lukedelagarza603 3 жыл бұрын

@@youngcaptainkeos2133 the egg came first

@azravalencia4577 3 жыл бұрын

@@youngcaptainkeos2133 Curiosity is Human nature interest. I mean without curiosity, maybe there is no Philosophy means no sociality and means no modern day like now. This is why Humans were superior than any creature on the planet, they have mind, curiosity, and abbility to evolve complicated.

@Nick-cw7ms 3 жыл бұрын

"This famous picture" that 90% of us are seeing for the first time.

@peterbirdie6491 3 жыл бұрын

make that 99.99%...

@reginaldbowls7180 3 жыл бұрын

99.9%

@MrTruckerf 3 жыл бұрын

110%

@RockinL7BuckingBulls 3 жыл бұрын

I’m the .01 who know about the picture. I’m a geek.

@marvinkitfox3386 3 жыл бұрын

Anyone that was at the exhibition in 1855 remembers the photographs quite clearly. It's not our fault you young whippersnappers were not yet born then.

@douglasherron7534 3 жыл бұрын

How about this as an explanation... Fenton took the first photo "Off" when he got to the location. Then someone who had been there (at the battle) said there should be cannonballs on the road but they were moved into the ditch to clear the road for traffic. So Fenton, or someone else, took some of the cannonballs out of the ditch to recreate the "real" post-battle scene which Fenton then photographed as "On"... I agree that even in this case "On" would still be fictitious / a recreation, but it would be a more 'real' representation of what the scene looked like post the Charge of the Light Brigade...

@SimonSozzi7258 2 жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@madi7178 2 жыл бұрын

Someone sane!

@TheBushdoctor68 2 жыл бұрын

Yes! I think you're right. In fact, when that many cannonballs land in an area, there should have been some at the base of the hill on the right side (quite a few actually), but there aren't. I think they were cleared as well, but not put back for the 'staged' photo.

@anotheruser676 Жыл бұрын

'real' doesn't have nice spacing between the ball, no two touching....nicely arranged.

@douglasherron7534 Жыл бұрын

@@anotheruser676 Exactly - staged to look "real".

@bwhite220 3 жыл бұрын

This is the most interesting pointless thing I’ve ever watched.

@bunbun382 3 жыл бұрын

lol

@ruins4 3 жыл бұрын

Yes

@nicolek4076 3 жыл бұрын

Do we really know the answer? Why did the cannonballs arrive where they did? Was this really a staging of a picture?

@dinamosflams 3 жыл бұрын

Funny. But there are two Points: that you can't really count solely on records and news to tell you the factuality of an extreme human condition and that, even so the On picture was not the factual account, It was the one that better translated the reality of war. It is the paradigm of factuality and reality that separates a reporter from a photographer

@elliotw.888 3 жыл бұрын

it's not pointless at all. as the above comment mentioned, this exercise shows how "reality" as we know it through visual evidence may not always be equal to "facts". even though the camera sees a vision of the real world, what the photographer chooses to include and exclude in the frame can manipulate the way the scene is portrayed. Notice how Fenton didn't have access to photoshop in the 1800s, but even then, he was able to curate a photo from a scene that described the war more dramatically simply by waiting. photos don't always tell the full picture.

@accordiongordon 3 жыл бұрын

“As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I take a look at my life and realize there’s no cannonballs left”

@TheJaironman99 3 жыл бұрын

Scrolled waaaaay too low to find this comment

@BeckManlavi 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, this is the comment I have been waiting for! 💚

@user-zb3yl1wu8u 3 жыл бұрын

Update: "As i walk through the Valley of the shadow of death I take a look at the road and realize it needs cannonballs cuz, you know, its more dramatic"

@TheFireControl 3 жыл бұрын

That's what you believe, hahahahahaha

@markomilas1501 3 жыл бұрын

"I didn't move a cannonball that didn't deserve it"

@Banana_Split_Cream_Buns Жыл бұрын

What I find more amazing is that there's a photo of cannonballs when cannonballs were still a thing in warfare.

@gatoslokosforever Жыл бұрын

what i find more amazing is Russia has been able to hold on to Crimea for centuries against the West European bandit alliance

@stupidkaijucrazy5548 10 ай бұрын

This war was near Napoleon times

@PalKrammer Жыл бұрын

As a photographer and self-proclaimed archivist/historian, when this NYT article first appeared many years ago, I was enthralled. Errol Morris going back to the original spot 150 years later and showing us what it looks like now fascinates me. He even found at least one rock, “Marmaduke,” which appears in the photographs from 150 years ago.

@corndog2460 3 жыл бұрын

Imagine someone coming over to your house then just THIS IS MY EYEBALL COLLECTION

@madotsuki_mk1 3 жыл бұрын

"Wanna contribute to it?"

@fernia5565 3 жыл бұрын

Gonna put some dirt on your eyeball

@leesoojin9038 3 жыл бұрын

No one : Morris : *It's my eyeball collection*

@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 3 жыл бұрын

I think it's cool tbh

@nekibahmed6677 3 жыл бұрын

Caught me off guard

@henrycollins2478 3 жыл бұрын

Sacred me

@SoAS26 3 жыл бұрын

Ikr...creepy

@taakotuesdays 3 жыл бұрын

it's so cool though

@bargh70 3 жыл бұрын

I think we forget how powerful photography was in its beginning. The first war to be photographed is such an incredible moment in human history.

@alanjackson724 Жыл бұрын

Ain't trying to be the 🤓🤓🤓🤓 guy, but actually the first "War Photos" were taken in 1847 during the Mexican-American War. Even after that from 1848-1849 pictures of the Second Anglo-Sikh War were taken. Even after THAT, in 1849, images of the Siege of Rome were taken. From a historical perspective just thought I'd point out the misinformation that the Crimean War was the first to be photographed.

@gpaderx6105 3 жыл бұрын

Fenton: "No one will know which taken first!" Rocks: *"I will destroy this man's career"*

@zack1634 3 жыл бұрын

@totallynotjeff7748 3 жыл бұрын

I love how they gave the rocks names as well, it's not mentioned in the video, but it is shown on screen. They could have easily just given them numbers or letters, but no.

@gpaderx6105 3 жыл бұрын

@@totallynotjeff7748 exactlyyy

@-danR 3 жыл бұрын

I'm not, like the video, assuming Fenton moved the cannonballs. Note that they discovered that troops frequently were accustomed to moving the projectiles for re-use. It becomes an obvious deduction then that they would sort through and pick up the best (uncracked, unflawed) of those and lugged them to the road where oxcarts would come along later in the day (or even next day) for salvage.

@SStupendous 3 жыл бұрын

@@-danR Only a decade later, that would rarely happen with the advent of rifled shells and breech-loading artillery, of which shells you cannot re-use.

@hendeeze 3 жыл бұрын

I can't believe this would keep people up at night.

@dictionaryofwords1108 3 жыл бұрын

Doc filmmakers are a weird bunch. We sit down and watch a documentary, but someone (often a team of people) had to obsess over the subject matter for years. You gotta love the process I guess

@DLYChicago 3 жыл бұрын

You have your cause and effect in reverse. Unsolved questions do not cause insomnia. When people cannot sleep they pick something to obsess over.

@GuacJohnson 3 жыл бұрын

@@DLYChicago I think most of the time you're correct, but researchers and scientists I'm friends with have often stayed up to continue working on projects they feel are close to fruition: the feeling of progress and discovery is a more powerful drug than you'd think

@Shubham-fk5oq 3 жыл бұрын

It is, I'm still watching and it's 3 AM

@hautehussey 3 жыл бұрын

People really care about staged photos. The very first war photographs being staged would be an important thing to know about.

@footfiles 3 жыл бұрын

Dude spends thousands to travel to the site and document it, when a five minute comparison of the two pics in photoshop gave the answer.

@lawrencefranck9417 Жыл бұрын

Business expense vacation.

@Jajdjejwi28 3 жыл бұрын

The fact that the action of 1 man caused an answer today really blows my mind. I'm in love with history

@mattyamamoto5554 2 жыл бұрын

Hello there handsome

@felixa1111 3 жыл бұрын

Plot twist: they were cleaning the field and they want to do a before and after pic

@blury6267 3 жыл бұрын

Plot twist: 100

@anirudhprabhu8521 3 жыл бұрын

Mystery solved

@mercame 3 жыл бұрын

Makes sense to me!

@jari948 3 жыл бұрын

There will still cannonballs in the ditch to the left

@evindrews 3 жыл бұрын

i literally would not be surprised if this was the case. No one wants a bunch of cannonballs on the road. And honestly why is this such a big deal lol

@Alan-is3jk 3 жыл бұрын

I feel like the placement of the cannonballs was also quite suspicious. Humans tend to not be able to scatter things "randomly". They often end up placing objects in similar distances to each other and organizing them in clusters, as seen in the photograph.

@I_AM_HYDRAA 3 жыл бұрын

and also why clear the road that doesn't give more impact

@hautehussey 3 жыл бұрын

But there were also more cannonballs added to the groups on the side of the road. If these were really added just for effect, it seems like there were a lot of extra ones put down that would have little impact on the photo. Also, if the focus was really the cannonballs then you’d think he would’ve changed the composition and had them be more centered or featured. He might have been trying to show a progression intentionally, like a movie with only two frames!

@klayman2 3 жыл бұрын

fun fact, thats why to make things hard to judge, i've always scattered things without looking

@klayman2 3 жыл бұрын

@@hautehussey my reasoning for the scattering is in the name of the area, valley of the shadow of death, he more than likely wanted to portray that soldiers were being hit with cannonballs as they went down those very roads, which was true, but it was manipulated to make a piece.

@elliotfinn146 3 жыл бұрын

I totally know what you mean! Plus I would think the cannonballs would be cracked or dented from them being fired or the ground would have dents of some kind.

@MrDaraghkinch Жыл бұрын

Fenton surveyed the scene after a battle, finding this road with projectiles strewn. On returning with his equipment, he found that the routine clearing of the road had taken place in the interceding time. He documented the scene unadulterated, before reconstructing what he was disappointed to have missed.

@tullochgorum6323 Жыл бұрын

My thoughts exactly. I doubt that the cannonballs had all parked themselves neatly in the ditch during the battle! I don't see any mystery here - Fenton was simply recreating the scene before the road was cleared. This would help convey the terrible ordeal the soldiery had experienced - and the title makes it clear that this is what he was aiming for.

@MrWilderNapalm Жыл бұрын

Sounds as plausible as he just sat them there for artistic effect. But hen you look up the road not another cannon ball is seen on the roadway. I'd say he placed them to recreate

@Eldorado1239 Жыл бұрын

@@LordBelakor No, I think they meant that he saw a scene with cannonballs on the road, went to his camp for equipment, but when he returned, it has been already cleared. So he set up his equipment, took a photo of the now cleared scene, then decided to put things back roughly the same way they were when he saw the scene first and took another photo.

@imscaredandconfused Жыл бұрын

you don't get over 2,5mil views and over 10mil subscribers if you simply explain what happened

@parkay3560 Жыл бұрын

I studied Fenton at Uni for my photography degree and along with his American counterpart ,Matthew Brady the general consensus was both "currated and doctored " their images for better dramatisation. It's even thought that some of the corpses in later images were not corpses at all.

@taille-haut 3 жыл бұрын

Since it's unlikely that all the cannonballs would have originally landed in the ditch, I'd assume that Fenton staged a reconstruction.

@RhysCropper 3 жыл бұрын

It's likely however that the canonballs happened to roll into the ditch after impacting nearby.

@thattassiewargamer 3 жыл бұрын

Not necessarily a reconstruction. Recovery of cannon shot would occur during 1800’s where artillery fire was concentrated. It is quite possible that the second photo was taken after a recovery team had sorted the recoverable shot and placed them onto the road for collection.

@taille-haut 3 жыл бұрын

@@thattassiewargamer If I were loading recoverable cannonballs into a horse-and-cart setup, I would want them lined up along the side of the road, and not scattered across the centre. Wouldn't you?

@taille-haut 3 жыл бұрын

@@RhysCropper That would depend on the trajectory, the road's camber, and its "softness". I doubt that cannonballs falling into a valley on a dirt road would roll far. Some would make it to the ditch, but not all. Further, it's entirely possible that Fenton placed the reconstruction's cannonballs into cannonball-dents in the road. We'll never know, will we?

3 жыл бұрын

And you can see that most of the removed cannonballs were closer to the camera, as he took the first pic and proceeded to walk, gather some nearby and throw them afar the road.

@abhishekbr6204 3 жыл бұрын

Dude this guy literally took the words 'I don't need sleep, I need answers' seriously 😂😂😂

@d.a.nicholaus 3 жыл бұрын

😂

@spheredude6003 3 жыл бұрын

@gavinarmstrong4979 3 жыл бұрын

The second photo still likely demonstrates the real situation of the combat being witnessed by the soldiers of the Crimean war. I imagine the cannonballs were likely rolled off the roads often as these roads were being used. During these battles no such clearing was taking place. So I think it makes sense that Roger's photograph's were seen as presenting the realities of what the battlefield looked like during combat within these engagements. These photos allow the viewer to imagine themselves in the middle of a battle so brutal, so hectic, that even the roads where you ride your wagon are littered with iron artillery-projectiles.

@kathleenmann7311 Жыл бұрын

A timely story. Keep up the great work 👍

@TaranVH 3 жыл бұрын

First thing I woulda done is put them on top of each other in "difference" mode in photoshop

@Valery0p5 3 жыл бұрын

The wonders of digital editing

@banhotsu 3 жыл бұрын

@@Valery0p5 you could have done a double exposure back in the day as well

@vancityevan 3 жыл бұрын

What do you know about editing??? Hahaha funny to see you here.

@LFProductionsllc 3 жыл бұрын

seems a bit easier rather than flying out to retake it huh

@Iblanken 3 жыл бұрын

This was my first thought. So satisfying scrolling down to see it as the top comment.

@hermesz_ 3 жыл бұрын

Forget this photo, can we talk about the giant penguin behind him?!?

@vikhyatdogra4796 3 жыл бұрын

PENGUINS OF OLD GUYSCAR

@amndr 3 жыл бұрын

"giant penguin"...? isn't a baby?

@hermesz_ 3 жыл бұрын

@@amndr still a giant nonetheless 😂

@taille-haut 3 жыл бұрын

Baby Emperor.

@dundee6402 3 жыл бұрын

@@amndr Funt fact: young king pinguins tend to be fatter and heavier than the adults

@taakotuesdays 3 жыл бұрын

coleman once again pulling through with in depth answers to questions i didn't have

@barbaratimmons5510 2 жыл бұрын

I was a professional PHOTO RETOUCHER over sixty years ago and found this item fascinating. Studying the minute details of each print would give much information which has been overlooked. You might even pick out individual cannonballs with distinct markings in two different positions. The camera was not moved even an inch between the exposures, so they must have been taken quite closely together with only a short time - lapse. I think the cannonballs would have been replaced on the road having been shifted to clear the track for subsequent easy travel after the actual bombardment. It might help to COUNT them? Before and After? So it really was not a cheating operation. More like a safe 're-enactment' of actual events.

@colinwatt00 3 жыл бұрын

I can appreciate the inference here is the photographer placed the cannonballs on the road for benefit of the photo, but consider for a moment the alternative - the cannonballs were placed BACK on the road. If you are regularly travelling through this area (which the road appears to be well-used), these cannonballs present an obstruction and hazard to horses and carts. So you clear the road. It’s possible the photographer -upon learning the road had been cleared- attempted to re-create the scene as it ‘originally’ was. Though still ethically questionable, his actions may have reflected his mandate - to document the war as it was, not after it had been already modified for purposes of travel. My point being, his intentions may still have been good.

@taille-haut 3 жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@aeromodeller1 3 жыл бұрын

Yes. My thought also, as a photographer who sometimes has to put things back where they were.

@erinpeterson3202 3 жыл бұрын

i think this is most likely. the scattering looks very uniform and un-random. plus, its unlikely that the cannonballs would only land in the ditch naturally. i think they had been cleared to the ditch and the photographer replaced them for a second photo

@colinwatt00 3 жыл бұрын

@Vikpzi Chong I’m Canadian.

@Crazytechnition 3 жыл бұрын

No no no. This is Vox, they’re anti British. Whilst I commend you on using sound reason and logic, this is just them trying to say “Britain bad and lie”. Furthermore, he never specifically explained the photos, he simply displayed them for people to see.

@EmazingGuitar 3 жыл бұрын

What if they were just cleaning up and he was just like “maybe I’ll take another picture just in case this one is better”

@ruv1610 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah but why would they put the cannonballs on the road, where realistically there would be more wagons and whatnot going along it?

@christopherliang6879 3 жыл бұрын

I took an introductory film class in high school and I can tell you definitively that film cameras do not capture the reality (they are sort of altered reality). Moreover, photographers cannot check their film until much later in a dark room. Also, how you print the film can alter the picture greatly. By strategically exposing more parts of the paper, the paper of the picture can have an underexposed and overexposed position from the same film. Also, the film itself even if preserved perfectly can potentially be under or overexposed if the film is not washed properly. Long story short, there is plenty of room to manipulation and lots of ways things could go wrong

@PDXDT 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent writing, editing, and final product. Perfect.

@ethanvargas-herrera1132 3 жыл бұрын

For a famous war photo, I have never seen it.

@brendanzhang7488 3 жыл бұрын

that's probably because its the Crimea war world war are more important

@lc-mx1ir 3 жыл бұрын

its famous for being the first war to be photographed idk

@stefanosanastasi99 3 жыл бұрын

it's also found in Times magazine 100 most influential pictures of all time collection

@eustacequinlank7418 3 жыл бұрын

Not sure what statement like that means really. A lot of people seem to agree though!

@I_Have_The_Most_Japanese_Music 3 жыл бұрын

More of a famous war not going on at the moment photo.

@Sean-yg3tr 3 жыл бұрын

The moment he said "It didn't," I felt his pain simultaneously

@JB-dm5cp 3 жыл бұрын

Nice! Being an archaeologist myself, I always first look at the ground surrounding the artifacts (on the horizontal as well as the vertical plane) to study perturbation and erosion so as to be able to place the object in its time, relative to other objects. The same has been done here, with obvious results.

@bag3lmonst3r72 3 жыл бұрын

Dude actually FLEW to the frickin Crimea just to get to the bottom of this? Now how's that for dedication? Or madness? Or both? Wow.

@__-cd9ug 3 жыл бұрын

he just wanted to go on a trip - what type of information can you possibly discover on site that you couldn't have deduced from your backyard

@JR-ub2wt 3 жыл бұрын

@@__-cd9ug tons and tons and tons of things can be unlocked by being on site. You sound clueless

@rishabhchaudhary5200 3 жыл бұрын

he's just rich and got some free time

@twm123 3 жыл бұрын

@@JR-ub2wt So do you. What do you imagine he'd find there? An eye witness?

@__-cd9ug 3 жыл бұрын

@@JR-ub2wt sorry but I don't think there is much to be found in this case, and it's obvious without having to think too long about it. He was trying to compare two photographs from 100 years ago. The shadows aren't even clearly visible. Honestly, going on location for this was probably the least efficient way to go about it

@MrDomagoj96 3 жыл бұрын

I thought those were skulls.

@palynaike 3 жыл бұрын

Me too...

@massinakmin8340 3 жыл бұрын

@@palynaike me too. lol

@SteveWKk 3 жыл бұрын

Black skulls???

@jkv6240 3 жыл бұрын

i thought of steel helmets like US soliders had in WW2 (which did not existed back then, i know)

@ZiaRDS 3 жыл бұрын

I thought they were ww2 helmets from the thumbnail, but after he clarified the war I realized they didn't make helmets like that yet lol

@davidroddini1512 3 жыл бұрын

Why didn’t they just look at the EXIF data on the 2 images. DUH 🙄

@Otokichi786 3 жыл бұрын

Right. Don't forget to check cellphone activity between him and the home office on how to "improve" combat zone photos. ("Put a broken rifle next to the corpse, not on it. Somebody might get suspicious.")

@robinhood4640 3 жыл бұрын

If the photos were carbon dated and one is five minutes older than the other, would this not be a good indication?

@davidroddini1512 3 жыл бұрын

@@robinhood4640 It would be accurate, give or take a couple of decades.

@marcosbello 3 жыл бұрын

Why no craters

@newhorizonsforfifty2833 Жыл бұрын

And right on cue, YT brings in the commercials when they are trying to figure out which photo.

@dimitreze 3 жыл бұрын

FINALLY!!

@ScoopOfButter 3 жыл бұрын

Hey, it's the guy that made the Bohemian Rhapsody comparison video

@THEBIGGAME683 3 жыл бұрын

Hey im the man who doesn't have a money!

@nullsurfer7331 3 жыл бұрын

Any context on why this guy has hundreds of likes for a single-word comment? If

@dimitreze 3 жыл бұрын

@@ScoopOfButter hahaha yep

@altonbeckert506 3 жыл бұрын

History: You'll never know what happened Errol Morris: Hold my glass eyeball collection

@charlesneve Жыл бұрын

There are cannonballs missing in the "on" photo that were in the "off" one. That lead me to believe that they were taken from the left and scattered on the road to make the image more dramatic. Pretty clever looking at the rocks though!

@Throckmorpheus Жыл бұрын

I mean that in and of itself wouldn't be evidence either way, since they could've just as easily have been cleared off of the road by moving them into the ditch on the left (if we didn't have the rock evidence)

@bbg4566 3 жыл бұрын

A wise man once said “As I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I take a look at my life and realise there’s nothing left”

@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache 3 жыл бұрын

If Fenton was alive today, I'm sure he'd laugh at the historians actually arguing about this

@joeshmoe9978 3 жыл бұрын

Best comment 👍

@SStupendous 3 жыл бұрын

You're basically Justin Y, but he gets 1-10k+ likes normally and you get -100

@oldcountryman2795 3 жыл бұрын

Yep

@abramay1382 2 жыл бұрын

Ur straight up Justin Y at this point

@jacksonrelaxin3425 2 жыл бұрын

He’d laugh at some Vox reporter getting his feelings hurt about wearing an outfit too.

@GamerSiol 3 жыл бұрын

pov: you’re seeing people commenting random nonsense just cos they are early

@killuminati91112 3 жыл бұрын

Right

@GeneralAeon 3 жыл бұрын

Dont call me out

@SharibShams 3 жыл бұрын

@emmanuellehmann9836 3 жыл бұрын

I see now it's from 3h agi

@prjndigo Жыл бұрын

Or maybe originally the road was covered with cannonballs and the military removed most of them to the side for the horsed but Fenty heard it was covered and went to take that picture then someone came along and said "No, there were dozens more on the road but we moved them" and it's a pair of historically accurate re-enactment photos? Presuming they were taken on the same day... which direction is the camera facing and which image has the earlier in the day shadows? Where was he camped, how long would it take to get to the location? You don't set out at 3am to "get a perfect picture" in the 1800s. Which one uses a longer exposure: we can determine that!

@BrandonShere 2 жыл бұрын

I mean the answer's so obvious to go through so much work!

@Ihyabond009 3 жыл бұрын

He tried to document the proof of how swallows are able to lift coconuts.

@MaxfieldCustoms 3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha!

@gibsondean100 3 жыл бұрын

"it's not a question of were it grips it" 😂

@GiacomodellaSvezia 3 жыл бұрын

The African or the European swallows?

@BD-nt3ee 3 жыл бұрын

@@GiacomodellaSvezia Best follow-up question I can think of. Crucial.

@MrCubFan415 3 жыл бұрын

@Commander Cody Bridgekeeper: (gets thrown into the Gorge of Eternal Peril)

@acentaur010 3 жыл бұрын

I've never been so enthralled over a photo about cannonballs before. Seriously good stuff.

@jaybdub77 Жыл бұрын

Dang… flying to Crimea, taking numerous pictures to determine the lighting conditions at different times during the day… that’s commitment.

@imdeplorable2241 3 жыл бұрын

At least one of those cannonballs off the side of the road was moved, also. I noticed it in the back-and-forth movement of the photos.

@cjmccullers 3 жыл бұрын

I'm so glad this series is back! it's my favorite vox content because it combines two subjects I find fascinating: photography (especially old photos) and history. I can't wait to see the next one

@DeshGp 3 жыл бұрын

Me - "Oh for goodness sake who cares that subtle difference?" Also Me - continues watching the entire video.

@scout2nut 3 жыл бұрын

well yeah, it was less than a nine minute video, would you have watched it all the way if they spent an hour talking about every rock and cannon ball moved?? guess depends on there story telling abilities.

@glbale 3 жыл бұрын

I turned the two photos into a stereogram. It is now possible for me to see the view in 3D. Not perfectly, however, because the objects that only appear in one photo rather than in both are in 2D and appear shiny and floating on the surface of the image. Those objects are the cannonballs before and after they were moved.

@DeyvsonMoutinhoCaliman 2 жыл бұрын

People always embellished history with writing, it's just expected they would do the same with any other kind of record.

@inbasicterms-popculturevid1704 3 жыл бұрын

Why do we love the idea that people might be secretly working together to control and organise the world? Because we don't like to face the fact that our world runs on a combination of chaos, incompetence and confusion

@0018lancelot 3 жыл бұрын

Idk, makes for good stories though lol

@nelsonsama1 3 жыл бұрын

People arent as smart as they think

@the.n.1 3 жыл бұрын

@@0018lancelot you're proving their point

@niko4628 3 жыл бұрын

People have a hard time understanding entropy, and/or they need someone to blame for their misery.

@angerock49 3 жыл бұрын

... That has literally nothing to do with the video, why is everyone up voting?

@AlienWithInternetConnection 3 жыл бұрын

Vox literally makes a boring topic into an interesting one.

@HiDesert004 3 жыл бұрын

No it’s still boring.

@deepstariaenigmatica2601 3 жыл бұрын

@@HiDesert004 wht is it with ppl like you 😂

@air3678 3 жыл бұрын

it's still pointless.

@NoThrottle 3 жыл бұрын

@@air3678 its pointless but it was interesting

@AlienWithInternetConnection 3 жыл бұрын

@@HiDesert004 Yeah like what your mom said when you were born.

@TimChuma 3 жыл бұрын

I remember reading all 10,000 words when this blog first came out. I need to see Standard Operating Procedure

@fvw1187 Жыл бұрын

I can’t believe how little this should matter to anyone.

@WilliamWaiteProductions 3 жыл бұрын

Vox: We ask the questions you don't care about and you watch anyway.

@suflo3063 3 жыл бұрын

I love hearing and learning about these obscure older stories, it's amazing to know about such a long ago time through just some pictures and how much of a meaning it all means put together. Awesome video.

@lesaber251 3 жыл бұрын

Fascinating way to determine which was first. Bravo!

@b991228 Жыл бұрын

Re-editing and recomposing a photo very often eliminates distractions. Which photo best heightens the true reality of war?

@WindowsSchmindows 3 жыл бұрын

Darkroom is one of my favourite KZfaq formats. The quality of the video and content are remarkable. Thank you. I am looking forward for a season 3.

@patchmo7 3 жыл бұрын

First thing I noticed is how "neatly" strewn the cannonballs are. There's no way they would all end up this way spatially after having been fired, they would naturally roll and most likely land in the ditch- the catch point, as evidenced by the "off" photo.

@nm5612 3 жыл бұрын

the photo looks completely staged I cant believe this was an actually mystery and someone flew to Crimea to uncover it. This should have been answered in a probabilistic way. I had to turn the video off when they said, now the question is who placed them there ? hahah was it the photographer ?

@olewetdog6254 3 жыл бұрын

I didn't study it too closely but when they switch back and forth it seems that some of the ones in the ditch are gone. Obviously to the road.

@michaelstadnikfilm 3 жыл бұрын

Exactly my thoughts too

@tomking8286 Жыл бұрын

Also some from the right and left inclines have disappeared. They could only have been moved after physics had finished with them.

@grizzlixx Жыл бұрын

the real question is the nature of the second photo, and it’s not as simple as “they all would’ve landed in the ditch so he just placed them there for drama”

@scottturnick7883 Жыл бұрын

This is one of those videos that I kept asking myself why am I'm still watching it

@tamer1773 3 жыл бұрын

Matthew Brady, the famous photographer of the American Civil War, often posed photos for dramatic effect. He was known to put rifles next to fallen soldiers and to even move bodies around the battlefield.

@larrylobster9107 3 жыл бұрын

Brady was also believed to have multiple staff photographer, so he possibly didn’t actually take the images accredited to him. It is also believed he was illiterate too, not that may make any difference.

@simonphoenix3789 3 жыл бұрын

that's disgusting... its one thing to pose cannonballs, but moving dead bodies around.. seems wrong, especially if you are doing it just for taking photographs.

@tamer1773 3 жыл бұрын

@@simonphoenix3789 We have to look at it in the context of the times. This was in the mid nineteenth century and photography was still a novelty. At that time people were also more familiar with death as many children died before the age of five and anyone could easily succumb to what are today easily preventable diseases.

@crinolynneendymion8755 Жыл бұрын

Ah, the famous photographer that 90% of people have never heard about. Must have been working on a backwater conflict someplace unimportant.

@tamer1773 Жыл бұрын

@@crinolynneendymion8755 Well yeah, if you never studied history and know nothing about anything that took place before you were born

@Amuzic_Earth 3 жыл бұрын

I was kind of sure, but it became very clear after seeing him posing in a dress multiple times, he was indeed the first instagrammer...(Staging photos, posing in dresses etc etc)

@crown00music 3 жыл бұрын

People: "Vox answering a question I don't even know exist." Me a photographer: my man invented photoshop!

@elliotw.888 3 жыл бұрын

this is hardly photoshop tho, it's simply a matter of waiting for the photo to present itself to you

@crown00music 3 жыл бұрын

@@elliotw.888 well it’s an idea, a need that end up creating the idea “Photoshop”

@the-engneer 3 жыл бұрын

It's been downhill ever since

@trevonwellis1127 3 жыл бұрын

Lol I was looking for this comment, glad to know I'm not alone

@c.a.g.3130 3 жыл бұрын

In addition to the apparent movement of rocks from Photo "Off" to Photo "On," several cannonballs mysteriously appear in the valley between the path and the road. How and why would they be there? Further, there appear no footprints (from placing them) no indentations (from their landing in a bombardment) on the road at or near the cannonballs, almost as if they had been there for some time rainwashed. Rain might also explain how rocks would wash downhill. I'm not satisfied with the conclusions of this presentation.

@larsontv2993 Жыл бұрын

I am satisfied with the conclusions of this presentation

@c.a.g.3130 Жыл бұрын

@@larsontv2993 Apparently, easily satisfied.

@EMIR-wd5dl 3 жыл бұрын

Nobody : Morris : "This is my eyeball collection"

@ferretface 3 жыл бұрын

The cannonballs in the little divot there could be mistaken for rocks. They're much easier to see on the road. It makes for a little better composition. They are also very neatly spaced on the road, compared to them mostly clumped together in the divot. I imagine Fenton walking back and forth from his camera to position the cannonballs, and inadvertently knocking the rocks around as he walks.

@tewesa9707 3 жыл бұрын

in my college history of photography class we went over these photos for a whole class. My prof posited that the soldiers cleared the cannonballs in order to collect them so they could be reused, and also so that the army could more easily travel over the road

@joebrooks4448 Жыл бұрын

A+

@WolfHeathen Жыл бұрын

I think this is just a question of temporary lapse of judgement. He took the "off" photo first and then altered the scene to take the "on" photo in order to see which one looked the best. He ultimately chose the "on" photo.

@chicobicalho5621 2 жыл бұрын

Fascinating! Thanks for posting it.

@barrymccockner3683 3 жыл бұрын

Fun fact: popular Russian author Leo Tolstoy fought in this war

@raw_oyster 3 жыл бұрын

What do you know about JIEB TOJICTOU' ?

@dylejyson5039 3 жыл бұрын

**facepalm**

@justarthur879 3 жыл бұрын

Лев Толстой...

@I_Have_The_Most_Japanese_Music 3 жыл бұрын

Popular? He wrote trashy romance paperbacks?

@bfhfhfhdj 3 жыл бұрын

He did, and by his own words enjoyed it.

@rikkowastaken 3 жыл бұрын

I don't even know this picture

@zweij 3 жыл бұрын

who cares? now you know.

@guidodelgiudice5 Жыл бұрын

I have the solution to this invaluably mysterious picture. Here me out. 1 Fenton arrived to the valley of whatever death and saw the road, the cannonballs and thought "wow! Perfect shot" but ran out of film or whatever they used back then 2 he left the location and sarcastically went downtown to buy more "film" or whatever they used back then. 3 by the time he got back to the valley of whichever shadows sadly found out that the army had cleared the passage. 4 asked the general of whomever army to kindly replace the cannonballs on the road for Graphic effect, request to which to General, a part-time photographer himself, agreed totally forcing the already tired soldier to return the cannonballs in place and then clear the path again. 4 Fenton took the picture to Britain to show the horrors of wars: " the abuse of human lives during the most daring adversely times. 5 that's what I do while waiting for the laundry

@RobWhittlestone 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent work. BUT: I also saw the same stones displaced and compared the pictures by stopping the video at 3:03. I had the answer after about 4-5 minutes. But I'm a physicist (remember entropy!), maybe that helped. Saved myself a trip. Now I can go back to something more gainful.

@Dywindel 3 жыл бұрын

Can't you use statistical distributions to estimate if the cannonballs landed randomly or were placed to look random?

@Thunderwalker87 3 жыл бұрын

I was a little sad by this video... because sometime around 2006-2007 my family stopped taking photographs, it was my graduation from high school, and even though there was children in the nest (even grandchildren) my mom who was the one who took the photos, had them developed, and all of that stopped suddenly... the sense of family was lost at my father's passing in 2007 and it got worse over time... I encouraged my mom to continue but she wouldn't... so 2007 is about where our actual hard photos end. And that makes me sad. All of it.

@MysterX79 3 жыл бұрын

Around that time ... I was facing the very same problem. Nowadays we drown in millions of photographs, but it's hard to value the best amongst them. One quick swipe on the phone and there is the next one, and the next one and the next one. It was around 2005 as my first daughter was born. So I took action against losing family pictures. Every year now around November/December I edit a more or less professional video with music, photos and videos and so I compress the best family memories into about one hour. Back then it was DVD now BluRay - I have images of those discs on harddrives, but I don't know what the future in 10 more years is bringing. I feel those formats are dying too) Therefor I design a printed album of photos too. Those two things make a wonderfull Xmas present for the grandparents and ourself every year. Honestly - every other photo, that didn't make it onto that collection is not worth keeping. So I delete them without regret.

@Broken_Orbital Жыл бұрын

Time to pick up the mantle.

@mikevanh 2 жыл бұрын

I think it unlikely that a cannonball used as a projectile would not bury itself within a crater, rather than remain pristine on an undisturbed surface.

@dont-want-no-wrench 3 жыл бұрын

interesting thing about zouaves, there was some unit of the north early in the civil war that used that kind of uniform- they quickly changed it after it became clear it made an easy aiming mark

@Monil92 3 жыл бұрын

The photo aside - this guys being bugged enough about it to investigate to this extent is pure dedication.

@n7eet 3 жыл бұрын

Another reason why "on" is second IMO is that photographers didn't know the out come of their photos at the time and it's clearly staged as he wanted to show the cannonballs and wasn't sure taking s photo of them huddled up on s ditch would suffice....

@jackwacaster7621 Жыл бұрын

It might be like the props of early photographers like Mathew Brady who used props to dramatize his subject most famously the bright musket that appeared with so many corpses in his work.

@judegnelson Жыл бұрын

“I see it, therefore it is real, and what is real is also true. A photograph is always yolked to something “out there”. To a reality that is independent of the apparatus and medium that captures it. Yet, when we take unthinking comfort in photography’s documenting of the real, we tend to forget it’s most sinister relationship with the unreal. The reassuringly objective could become the treacherously subjective. And this is the pleasure, as well as the menace, of photography, who’s archives are as full of fiction as of truth.” A quote from Reely and Truly. It’s a film by Tyrone Lebon that explores truth in photography.

@JajaborMusic 3 жыл бұрын

British are masters in it, doctoring everything to their favor. whole history has been torn out and rewritten for their favour. Just brit things

@ce1834 3 жыл бұрын

Sour indian alert 😂. I dont blame you though considering your nation’s history

@JajaborMusic 3 жыл бұрын

@@ce1834 btw I think they teach their kids about their past crimes. Kids already knew all these. Now don't tell me that colonialism isn't in their history textbooks.😁

@goldene9965 3 жыл бұрын

We are superior tho so we do what we want.

@Lomaherp 3 жыл бұрын

@Sherry He most likely meant british culture and people... I mean they were able to conquer half of the known world. If its not the humans that make them able to do that then its their mentality and culture. Invasion and colonizations wouldnt only been an European thing if other countries would have been able to do it but they were no developed enough.

@JajaborMusic 3 жыл бұрын

@@goldene9965 in your mind. The world isn't Britain only. Come to India once.

@jonathanjc1131 3 жыл бұрын

The whole Darkroom series is internet gold

@myMotoring 3 жыл бұрын

i've guessed in minutes. if the photographer wanted to make the scene more dramatic, of course the one with cannonballs scattered on the road will be more dramatic. it doesn't make sense if the 1st shot was the one with cannonballs on the road, and he figured out it will be more dramatic if he cleanup the road for 2nd more '''dramatic'' scene.

@EE-hi9se 3 жыл бұрын

depends on how many cannonballs are in a certain area of the photos. was this post-attack of a battle? did he move the cannonballs to craters in the ground to show how many hit the road? was he just making a dramatic representation? did an army go through there? i think he either: A. took a before and after photo of a attack on a trail (possibly explaining the movement of the camera to not perfectly match the other one) or B. he put the cannonballs in craters to show how many would've hit if an army had marched through there. but to me it looks like ON had more cannonballs so this could possibly be a photo of after an attack? possibly explaining the movement of the rocks if an army was marching through, they came under attack, and some soldiers fled up the hill knocking over the rocks in a struggle to get away from the cannonballs, photo isn't perfectly aligned, maybe the movement of light in the pictures, and what looks to be more cannonballs. I'm not 100% sure but I'm just giving my 2 cents.

@aname6722 3 жыл бұрын

“this is my eyeball collection” uhmm what?

@MachoMan_Vert 3 жыл бұрын

Fenton: I would have even get away with it if it weren't for these meddling kids.

@joeshmoe9978 3 жыл бұрын

RUH ROH! 🐕

@seaworthysloth2375 2 жыл бұрын

Those rocks moving were the first thing I noticed 😂😂

@daneast Жыл бұрын

I saw it at the 5:00 mark. A rock has been knocked out of position and has rolled downwards a little. The "off" photo was taken first based on that, and the cannonballs were added later, at which time the rock was also displaced. Now to watch the rest of the video and see if that's right...

@m.ainunwildan962 3 жыл бұрын

Vox answering a question that i don't even care exist.

@salmane163 3 жыл бұрын

Exactly😂😂😂

@jacobdaniels3246 3 жыл бұрын

It's just interesting lol

@salmane163 3 жыл бұрын

@@jacobdaniels3246 yeaah

@TheGerm24 3 жыл бұрын

And yet you are hear commenting on the video. That means you clicked the video helping Vox's KZfaq rankings. It looks like Vox got what they wanted out of you.

@davidmihai2004 3 жыл бұрын

the cannonballs would have left an imprint if he took them out afterwards so its easy too decide that most likely he put the cannonballs afterwards

@davidmihai2004 3 жыл бұрын

plus the cannonballs are too symetrical, if he took them out afterwards the ditch would have had more cannonballs, i might be wrong but it's too easy to figure out