3x9 hour sessions and my guys just got to the entrance of the 2nd level. Lotta fun though

I didn't like the overly simplistic presentation at first, BUT ! with the insane amount of content that this book has, i can see that this was the best way to go.

I don't have an issue with the maps at all, looks like a return to the old school graph paper style. Lovely! Get a NoteBoard and get inking!

I made a connection between Dragon Heist and Mad Mage through the Winter Wizardry campaign. Manshoon is the main villain in that one. According to actual lore, he met with Hallaster and challenged him to a duel for the dungeon. He lost, and had to leave behind his arm as penance. Manshoon could see there was a threat greater than Hallaster, as it was the dungeon itself. The more Hallasters simulacrums there are, the more crazy he becomes, and the bigger the dungeon grows. If Hallaster completely loses himself, then the dungeon takes control. If the dungeon grows large enough, it could control the leylines and hijack the Weave. He thinks the knot in the weave below is influencing all this. ALSO, Manshoon dealt with his own simulacrum troubles, so he's anticipating the same there. I left a note in Manshoon's ledger connecting all of this for players. These players also did the Lost Mines of Phandelver. I made a connection that he wanted Halia Thornton to use her ownership of the Phandalin Miners Exchange to create and hoard magical weapons from the Wave Echo forge to fight Hallaster. The Rockseeker Brothers ended up controlling the mines, so he lost out on that. His backup plan was the Dragon Heist; then, he'd have enough coin to fund his campaign.

Thanks for a very useful review. I like your style! I feel like you cover the important things to know about a product in a fair and entertaining manner. This is not the first review of this product I have watched, but it is the most useful. Thanks for helping me make up my mind to buy Mad Mage.

Being unhappy with the lack of combat in Waterdeep, my players literally asked me for more. So I decided to add a bit of this dungeon to the campaign, with one of their side missions to save a Rsznar (given this task by force grey instead of the talking to the dragon mission). I would highly encourage others to do the same if you're DMing and your players feel the need to bash skulls on without getting in trouble. You'll probably need to scale down some encounters or bring one or two friendly PCs (I had force grey "train" them up a couple levels instead, will have to scale up encounters going forward), but so far it's a nice dungeon.

Good feedback. Thank you.

I only watched the players section to avoid spoilers but from what you outlined this is fantastic! Finally a worthwhile module from WOTC that doesn't mean you are fighting the same type of enemy repeatedly! (Giants, more Giants, cultists, more cultists) As a player I am looking forward to this, as a DM this would be great to pick apart and run levels as individual dungeons.

Great review. I have been waiting for a good mega dungeon to have fun in. Thanks

probably gonna pick this one up only to hack it to pieces and use each layer if I need to throw a dungeon into my Ravnica game. Skullport I could even steal for a nice little home for the Dimir.

Great review and thinking about picking it up now just for the dungeons to use in a different game. thanks for the idea. Keep up the great work Nate!!!

I had the box set of this dungeon when it very first came out a very long time ago...I loved it then and I am sure I will be getting both the book and the map set for this setting....it is actually really easy to get players to delve into this adventure and it can be transported to any world setting with a little bit of work

Thanks for this, your analysis is really helpful.

I'm gonna start binging your videos. Thankyou for your work and sharing. I own some of em. Throughout the various eras of dnd but never got all.of them and you are a perfect place to go to help me determine if I should buy em or not

Thank you very much for this review! Looking forward to dragon heist and then this next!

I remember the two original Undermountain boxed sets. Those huge maps. pre-planned encounters, and plenty of room to fill it out. My friends and I spend many Friday nights in the underdark every week. This was between 2nd and 3.5ed. The best editions IMO... Except for grapple. Grapple rules sucked.

Excelent review, as always! Well Done!

Awesome review! I read a good portion of it and would recommend it for any 5e DM. It's great for mining, just like you pointed out. I would say it's worthwhile to comb through the sections, or even start at the bottom level, and work through making the NPCs and monsters/puzzles/dungeons working for each individual game. The PDF version is great for this, search up the monster or item and mine away.

Taking a lot of inspiration from this review thanks!

This is a good review, but I have to disagree with you on something. 12:46 The book's not hard to read. The introduction specifically points out how the formatting helps with at-a-glance gameplay. The bolded words are the things that the characters first see when they enter the room. And like you said, there are any number of directions the party could approach a given room from, so the information in the book needs to be presented in a way that doesn't assume anything. What the book does assume is that you're already familiar with what's in the dungeon because you read it beforehand. And yeah, it would have been nice to have more art in the book, but there isn't any room for it. This book is so dense with good stuff that even the word choice feels carefully chosen to be as economical as possible.

The binding of my book is also starting to show! I assumed it was bc I’ve been carrying it around in my backpack...

Nice review!

Awesome! I'm running my first campaign that isn't heavily homebrewed soon, think I'll start with a few adventures from Tales From The Yawning Portal, to give my beginner players some experience, then jump into this.

Awesome content, man. I'm pretty selective about who I follow (Matt Colville and Web DM are the only other TTRPG guys I follow), but you earned a sub with this and your Dragon Heist reviews. Well laid out, no fluff, great content.

I don't plan on running undermountain start to finish, but my players do plan already on visiting Skullport, so they'll probably have a few quests I give them in the 3rd and 4th level of the dungeon. I plan on saving the rest for other quests or campaigns.

My binding is showing on the same pages as yours is. Great Video!

I finally get to play through this! I am old school, and I really enjoy Funhouse dungeons. That is the play style I started with.

I've been running this adventure for about 20 sessions now, the party has been to the first 3 floors and Skullport. One of its weaknesses is that is makes for difficult RP encounters, when almost every encounter is dangerous or monstrous. That, and you need to come up with an overarching story and weave characters backstories into one megadungeon - great for a creative DM and helpful players, but difficult.

Subbed for the flawless channel name, stayed for the content

Finished DMing DragonHeist back in June. The party is getting back together soon and we will be diving down into Undermountain! Can’t wait.

Not sure if you are aware, but there were multiple modules built around Undermountain in 2nd Edition, then a kind of compilation and update of that material in 3rd Edition (called Expedition to Undermountain), as well as a 4E version (which I haven't looked at). Dungeon of the Mad Mage is most similar to Expedition to Undermountain, although DMM simplifies the level layout considerably (which is good). Many levels in DMM were originally "sublevels," many of which were difficult to nearly impossible to access (one-way portals, terrible traps, a dozen beholders guarding it, and so on). DMM lays it all out level by level. There is some interesting lore in the older materials though (much of which can also probably be found on the Forgotten Realms wiki), and some of the design elements in Expedition are not included in DMM--such as two different vertical shafts that connect multiple levels. For someone who is planning to run part or all of DMM, I think it would be highly beneficial to look at Expedition to Undermountain (available on DriveThruRPG, may still be discounted for their Thanksgiving sale as of my writing this). While the maps in Expedition are fancier, they are honestly much harder to read and use; the maps in DMM are not as pretty or fancy, but are very clear and easy to understand, so I actually prefer them. But my main point is that the design elements, the lore, and some of the adventure plot material in Expedition to Undermountain could be very useful when tossed into DMM.

I'm not convinced the map style is a practical choice because of the size and complexity of the levels, as you suggest. I suspect it's a deliberate homage to the "old school" style of dungeon maps from 1E and Basic D&D - the symbols, the 10' x 10' squares, etc. Being a grumpy old gamer, I vastly prefer this style to the over-embellished and garishly-coloured "arty" style that took over for dungeon maps later, but everyone has different tastes :-) Anyway thanks for another great review Nate, tempted to pick this up now.

Just ordered this, as well as the board game version. Gonna be fuuuuuuuuuun!

For three years of my gaming group, I DMed them through the original Under Mountains every Friday night. Great times. Undermountain has a bit of a story and specific areas, but it has a plethora of rooms to create your own content.

Great review and interesting thoughts. Personally, I too wish they gave us some ideas for plot hooks. I am building the plot hooks into Dragon Heist. And still wanting to keep the story character driven. I liked your idea of making the dungeon a back drop to other stories. Kind of like Pillars of Eternity did with their mega-dungeon. Overall though, I like the choice of dungeon artwork, its not cluttered with minor inconsequential details that could create problems in such a huge map. I am however frustrated with all the maps be 10x10 square. Rather then 5x5. It just makes things more difficult when using a grid map. Other then those few problems I love the way the book is set up and myself and my group is excited to begin the next adventure.

Going to pick this book up for a future campaign! It reminds me of Durlags Tower and I'm probably going to twist the game to try that approach

Its a good book, its the sourcebook and toolbox that they said that the Waterdeep Dragon Heist Book would be, but wasn't.

I like the fact there is no "read aloud text" boxes. I never did like those. My players tend to tune it out and I don't like reading some else's words like a script. Doesn't feel like my game, and instead parroting someone else's game. And I like the room descriptions. The bold words are the first things the PCs notice upon entering the room and likely to investigate. The summary further adds information if they do. It's useful and without the read aloud text, it gives me the necessary tools to describe the scene in my own words to my heart's content. I'm very pleased with this book. I'm at the stage where I just want a good old classic dungeon crawl. This does it, and more. :)

The maps may not be as pretty as most of the 5e era adventures but for me it feel a bit more nostalgic of the red box and 1st edition AD&D days. I'm almost sad they weren't blue print style. ;-)

Throw level 3 characters into a random level and see if they can survive. Muhahaha. Good ideas at the end ^. Also, this can work with TFtYP or even set in another campaign location outside the SC: ToA, CoS, etc. I would even use this in another game, like one of (or parts of a few different locations) the many dungeons in the Davokar forest of Symbaroum.

Nate dude We love your posts ! TTRPG's for all !!!!!

Best review of this book out there. Kudos! 👍

The maps are beautifully clear (like you said) And no one is going to see them except the DM and they need clarity. I just feel like that was a choice, this or that, and they chose that and it was the correct choice.

Sweet. This is just a redone undermountain guide. Already have it from 2nd and 3rd

Doesn't Halaster Blackcloak also wrestle in NXT? ;) I don't know if I'd run this as a mega dungeon, as I've done with all the books, I'll probably cherry-pick encounters and fit them into my homebrew.

Undermountain is one of my favorite things to run. 3.5 Return to Undermountain gave a fun reason to run it and created very many unique opportunities for higher level characters which is easy to convert to 5e. I'm slowly pulling apart Dragon's Heist to take those 4 antagonists and have them as something more long-term for 5e Undermountain.

I was very excited about this book. This is going to be fun to use in game. But it is not as detailed as the old 2nd Ed boxed sets. The map style is very basic but is functional. Looking at the 1st level of the dungeon, I felt that the loot levels were to low.

I have the 2e as well. I use dwarven forge to recreate the dungeons.

I could also see breaking the levels up into trials of the mad mage or they could just be ancient ruins and make the mad mage the thought dead King. Them stores them around the game works where players quest new locations for a mortgage DND campaign

If you get the chance, check out the original Undermountain maps from the boxed set.

I think I’ll keep my 2nd edition undermountain set(s)

i just got done running lost mines of phandelver and for wave echo cave i drew it out on 88 inches x 66 inches 1 inch grid paper and had to cut it in section to fit table as players scouted the cave , now i want to play dungeon of the mad mage but i dont want to draw it out as they explore because i have dungeon tiles and cavern tiles to set up when an encounter occurs , so what advice would you give to give my players a visual as they explore ?

Hey guys, i was wondering how i would go about printing the map to be used in an actual game. Would i have to redraw the maps myself to scale? Or is there an easier alternative that doesnt involve hours of sketching by hand?

So my buddy got me a copy of the dungeon of the mad mage and it looks pretty cool. I don't plan on running it as a full campaign. Instead I want to use it to run single dungeon adventures when my group feels like taking a break from our main campaign. In your guys opinion what are the coolest/most fun dungeons from that book and why? thanks.

I bought the book today based on your review and I love the content. But is anyone finding that the ink smears on casual contact with the page? It doesn't feel like the ink was set properly (or it could be just my copy). I have a jpeg of the damage.

Love the vid! Just wondering where your Ravnica review is?

I like the technical layout of the maps, I would have liked more stylized versions for players (the map pack just has the same maps, but does have copies of the cards) I am wondering if the maps are just traces, of the older maps. I haven't got out my old box set to compare yet. The art level for me is alright, more is better but It was probably cut for the hefty word count. To make use of this book outside its intent. Make each level a separate dungeon and transplant it.

Dungeon the Mad Mage is a pretty good example for way too huge campaigns with way too unrelated stuff which seem so randomly thrown into one big campaign/dungeon. As a player one got the impression the the author just got a big collection of post its on his table and just wrote everything in one big campaign to deliver as much stuff as possible. There might be a big story or somethign which combines everything but the players don't get any clues if there is any story at all but just a zoo of a mad mage which has to be slain/avoid. In our group since a year we, the players, fight through this big thing and are only at the half of the lairs (playing almost every weekend for around 10 hours) and are already so tired. Ah, yes, a good advice for players which is only minor spoiler: In lair 10 there is a river. DON'T JUMP INTO IT AND DON'T FOLLOW IT!

Just snagged this at our local bookstore. Marked down from PHP2399 (around $50) to PHP400($8). :))

definitely get maps & miscellany expansion pack for this module

12:56 I have to do this all the time, they more or less expect it, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY TAKE THE DAMN PORTALS.

There's a Spelljammer and a Spelljamming helm - with rules - in this book. That alone is worth the price of entry.

I was pretty against mega dungeon adventures, but think I may just give this a try. Great review, although I like the map style and much more art in a 300+ page book, would maybe make the book unwieldy. Might also be a great game for the off weeks when not everyone can attend and you just want some quick fun.

Nice review

Well... my credit card account wil catch me later, but i just bought Dragon Heist an Mad Mage on Amazon because of you lol. Paid 69,99USD for both including shipping to Brazil. It was cheaper even if i bought the 2 books in The Brazilian Amazon and they arrive 7-14 december lol. God Bless America XD

I like the box text to know what to read. Not having it may cause me not to buy it due to size. Will have to color code things in the book since it sounds like it gives you an outline and you plug and play a lot.

How hard would it be to start this with a group already at level 10?

Maaaaaaaaaaaaan I so wanna watch this vid but I don't wanna get spoiled! I'm gonna be a player in a DotMM stream coming up and I want to go into it as fresh as possible- can't wait to hear your thoughts on it after it finishes though!

How connected are these dungeons? Would it not be worth it to pick this book up just to insert the dungeons seperately in a homebrew

My players are one the last session of Tomb of Annihilation, and should they survive, they'll be around level 12-13. Then, due to RP, the bounty hunter will be directed to Waterdeep. I think it'll be fun to start them in on DotMM. Any thoughts about bringing them in a good 7 levels above recommended?

My dude loved the video do disagree with your take on the quality of maps and overallness of the module. I hope you keep up the good work cant wait till your next video.

How would this fit into an Acquisitions Inc campaign? Would the Cartographer role be too OP here?

First session (first time my party has ever done a grand dungeon) my party decided to split up and a few hours later they were all dead. Lol a lot of fun my party needs to act more strategic and work together.

Don't know if you touched on this or know anything about it but thinking of having the kids start with the D&D Adventure club monthly adventures thing that's meant for a younger audience. What are your thoughts on it?

One thought on the maps is that a lot of the time and money spent on them is kinda of wasted. Most of the time only the DM is going to be looking at it and frankly clarity in the map is a big draw. Mike Schley's maps are very good and still clear but I don't mind the black and white. Reminds me of the old blue maps that were clear at a glance what was where.

Such a huge mega-dungeon has to be run episodically. I think the PCs would need a reason to go into a particular dungeon level. Such as reward to kill monsters or collect loot/magic items, or rescue a prior adventurer or party, find a particular item magical or otherwise or perhaps just to increase a party’s reputation to obtain other jobs.

I expected the maps to be detachable and poster size, like the one in previous adventures. This lack of maps frustrated me with this module.

Those dungeons look badass

I would probably have to homebrew more npcs and settlements in for my group

Could not care less about limited roleplaying opportunities as I never moved beyond 2e anyhow. Drow, goblinoids, beholders and their ilk are evil. We don't negotiate with such creatures, we end them. I actually grabbed this because I recently picked up a bunch of the 2e Undermountain stuff on ebay and I'm going to convert everything over to Castles & Crusades. Really like the potential here as they've left areas for personal dungeon expansion. Gonna have a lot of fun with this.

Thanks for the review will be picking this up with dragon heist.

How do you guys tackle visually representing such large dungeons on an RPG grid mat or paper playing with minis?

Actually will be buying this one.

I feel like with the dungeon art, amount of art and dungeny dungeon Dungeness it's kind of a throwback to first and second edition. Just way more in depth the way 5th edition is

What's strange about continuing from Waterdeep Dragon Heist to Dungeon of the Mad Mage is that in Dragon Heist you have milestone leveling, but the Dungeon is definitely designed around XP leveling

That staff actually sounds eerie to me

Looks like a reprint and update of the old Undermountain box set.

I wish WotC would do a remake of Lost Mines of Phandelver in 1-20lvl campaign. I really think there is some long term potential. Key: Given a world of magic search spells, noone could find find the place. That alone makes for a suspiciously valuable place. (Agatha was probably alive and visited it during it's heydey). The lack of detail of Neverwinter Wood, Helms's Hold, and pre-established Sword Mountain locals is awkward.

My players are in search of the sacred jouch (Jean couch), which the mad mage has

I'd probably like for the dungeon maps to be dressed up a bit, but I think I prefer this style to Jared Blando's maps. I've had a bad experience with his maps from Hoard of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat. There are various places where the maps scaling is just wrong or nonsensical, and sometimes the rooms drawn into to the maps don't resemble the descriptions written in the adventure, which can be jarring when trying to use the maps with players. These black and white maps might not be the prettiest, but at least they're easy to read. There's some merit to having a map without too many details, because that leaves more to be filled in by the players and DM. There's merit to fleshed out maps as well, but sometimes they include extra bits that are misleading or restrictive to what the DM wants to present.

I kept an eye out for the spine when I first cracked my hardcopy open yesterday and the binding was already showing😭😭😭

Being very familiar with the original undermountain box set I must say I'm slightly disappointed that they didn't include all of the first level, what's in the book is probably only 30% if the original 1st level of undermountain

would this be a good adventure for a beginner group a DM

One annoying thing in this book is that there's a blatant error on the first floor - an area labelled 6e with no description.

That's great

Did you already did an review of storm king's thunder??

The Maps on Roll20.net look so classic, clean, and to a evoke a Table Top to a degree that is hard to pick a bone with.

i bought from amazon (with Prime) and my expected delivery is between 1 and 3 months

The thing i dont like about this is the maps, when you need like 50 symbols and a key to show what all 50 are, when they could have just had like 5-10 things and made a key for it.

Make 3 to 4 character sheets and do a solo to see how far you can go... great fun when nothing to do!