Hassle?? I LIKE doing my bikes. Waxing, cleaning, checking over. What am I doing wrong?? What is it taking time from? Drinking beer?? The silent running of a well maintained bike is sooo nice, and a waxed chain contributes great to this. Rgr

@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 chain removal, solvent bath, dry, relube. Full drive train clean as it's full of crap, jockey wheels etc. Times 3 because I ride 3 bikes. Did this each week to keep stuff clean. So yes it was hours per werk. Not hard to understand. I guess your stuff is perpetually filthy, which mine wasn't because I actually look after my stuff unlike you by the sounds of it.

Thanks Coolcmsc!

yep for sure - that is a preference for some, mostly just try to ensure dry chain well before re wax

yeah i really wish WT would do something about selling wt-1! it really is a shocker of a product even for road use, offroad its a grinding paste in no time :(

Such spelling. Wow

yes i do have "Going long" / multi day events on my vid to do list! will try and do soon. I need to test set times of the wax drips, that is also on my list. I did do an initial play, putting a drop of each on a glass panel - honestly none of the set particularly quickly including TTAW such that that were not easily wiped off. However it appears bonding to glass is not same as metal, so i am going to re do applying each to a link plate - i am just trying to figure a good way to assess how well the wax has set / bonded. however, whilst i really like TTAW, i think 10 mins set time is ....... unrealistic. especially deep inside the chain which is where you need lubrication - there is just insufficient air in their i think to allow such a set time - 10 mins would require some sort of chemical reaction. if it is not set inside where the main load is, treatment lifespan under use could for sure suffer as lot of what may still be in there is just carrier. The drop was not set in 10 mins on my glass panel, so i doubt it is set deep inside a chain. I will have to write to Tru_tension re that claim - but at this stage i am calling that claim highly implausible. but yep stay tuned, i am planning to test set times better soon.

In my experience starting with a wax and topping up just doesn't work in ultra endurance races. The stops you do are too short for the wax to dry. Even if its a dry race, morning mist will stick to your chain and make it impossible for the wax to stick on. Didn't find the holy grail yet, but if there is a chance of rain i go with Silca Synergetic. It still works in rain and dirt, is easy to top up and it is enough to just carry a tiny little bottle with you, as it lasts really long!

@@dakalla if wax drip does not set then contamination gathering wise you are in a potentially similar ball park to if you had a wet lube- it really depends on how wet the lube. Lifespan can be an issue with being set, so for sure it is event dependent on what you should pack as a top up lubricant - however starting waxed is most times going to be your best path as you will be lower contamination gathering until it is time to add lubricant. Then if wet, add a top lubricant like synergetic, or dry by still aways to go.

Thanks Glenn! And yes i know they lost... i think her name was Marta? and that she was pretty integral - however.... for sure they should have been able to sort this out WAAAY sooner for such a premium product - especially if getting email requests/ complaints. I go on leave and it is just andrew to field the inbox, or andrew is on leave and its just me to do orders, inbox, prep chains, testing - and we can run behind - but we dont leave things unanswered for that long as simply what we didnt get too on one day, or even then next day - well it keeps moving up the list. I imagine it was customer support person couldnt answer until person further up the chain gave them the official instructions, and they just kept having other stuff take priority - which happens - but they have to understand that this can lose them the support of the person/s not being supported. Hopefully they are more on top of things now if Marta replaced with a groovy person...

Agreed, although it seems to be cutting in and out on this video - almost like another program is taking over the mic, or some other settings issue. Hopefully Adam can tweak it and have a perfect audio time next vid!

Thanks! had a great time - I had a good day - considering my general poor training and epic snacking (one of my favorite hobbies is a cuppa and a yummy snack...) i had a good legs day so i climbed well enough for a podium battle - and i was also on a good day on the descents and through the forest section so had a great time overall. I made a couple mistakes that cost me about 10 secs each and so whilst i was as close as about 10 meters off the back of 2nd place a couple times, i couldnt quite challenge - but still very happy with a 3rd for this ol hubbard :)

Thanks Rob! yes thats correct and normal, the modifiers will settle to the bottom. And so pot 1 will have the modifiers sitting on the bottom with the contamination - but just let the bulk of the what will be clean wax base from pot 1 drip back into pot 1, and you are then just bringing a few grams of that wax into pot 2, which will be swished and so full distribution of modifers. Theoretically one is slightly diluting their pot 2 modifier to wax ratio each time, but there is plenty enough not to worry re this at all.

Thanks andrew! and cool i will revert back, just had a play for this one for fun!

thanks gabiel - i will have a look at maybe doing that as "shorts" - never done one of those (consider for me i can barely say hello in 5 minutes hahahaha!)

sorry - gabriel!! speed typing...

@@zerofrictioncycling992 anything under 45 min qualifies as short here! 😂

you can use a rag just microfiber or similar tend to be quite absorbent so more easily lift dust off / lower risk of wiping dust in instead. And yes - the cloths i use to wipe dust only you can just wash. I use those cloths for heaps of household cleaning as well. Others that use to wipe off more greasy stuff (suspension etc) then no but it takes ages for me to go through my cloths - i buy in bulk every couple years.

5000km, very impressive. I ended up throwing a small bolt into my Tru Tension bottle to give it that shaker effect like UFO.

Yes simply that FP isnt really recommended to use with immersive waxing, the wax base is just completely different, and they dont play that well together. So for this vid for going through hybrid approach, it just is not suitable product for me to bring in and discuss. It is a brilliant product, but really it is reserved as top option for those who are NOT going to immersive wax.

ah very glad you are enjoying a lovely low friction DT!! And mostly yes around that - it will depend a bit on pot size, especially for two pot system you dont want to go too big, as after approx 30 re waxes from pot 2, you will have removed a couple hundred ml of wax. Now its heading into pot 1, so to see another approx 30 re waxes, pot size needs to be considered or you wont get the fill level to cover chain, especially with raised off the bottom. As you see in my vid - i use a 500ml cast iron fondu pot on a small induction plate - thats perfect, but depending where you are if you can get the 1.5l or smaller slow cookers they can be super as well. You might find replacement time is guided by wax fill level, or about 30 per pot rotation is great.

​@@zerofrictioncycling992 . Honored that you replied!! I am using the smaller 1.5L Crockpots for both pot #1 and #2 with 1/2 pound of Gulf Wax in each. So, I it seems like I should be tossing out the pot #1 wax and replacing with pot #2 wax every 15-20 baths/rewaxes. Then using NEW Gulf Wax in pot #2. BTW, I do not ride in crummy conditions and mix up my time riding road, gravel, and MTB. Never too muddy. That is what ZWIFT is for

I used to just blast with a heat gun for a couple mins, these days i have an air fryer in work shop so i bung in there for 10mins on 80c whilst i clean bike :)

@PacificMtn I pour the water from the boiling flush bath into separate container and let it cool so that the wax in it solidifies. I then pour the water into a funnel under which I hold a paper filter (one for tea or coffee). This filter wild hold back the solid chunks of wax and can be disposed of in the normal waste.

I am mr low friction! life is too short to ride draggy bikes, i prefer mine to be silk lightning! :)

havent seen that vid but - boiling water from a kettle can damage wax drips, hot tap water is fine and can be a good thing to do. However, note that the chain must also be a decent ambient temp - if one has a cold chain, a warm lubricant will still pretty much instantly cool to the same temp as the chain metal on contact. ie if bike is in the shed in winter and the chain is 5dg c, warming your lubricant wont do anything, it will cool instantly and just set on outside and have very little penetration deep inside. Remember only a small fraction of a ml is hitting each link - that volume will match chain temp if chain cold in less than a second.

what do you mean by oz cycles method? his blend or other stuff? Note that his blend will likely be perfectly good - but it wont match mspeedwax or hot melt as simply they have put a lot of genuine R&D and testing to make those blends, and his test was - in my personal opinion - flawed to the point of being deliberately so - you can read and make up your own mind on that, i have put forward my concerns in this doc here on instructions tab; zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/That-Oz-Cycle-Video-v1.2.pdf And not sure if you are aware - but he went to jail for 18 months for a frankly horrific case of animal cruelty. I dont know where some peoples moral lines are drawn re when they would stop supporting someone - ie what would one have to do before they stopped getting support for something as non critical as cycling content, but for me - that certainly crosses that line by parsecs. Anyone who is fine with him doing that and still supporting i just dont think are a match for me / zfc. www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-05/steven-john-leffanue-jailed-over-killing-neighbours-dog/101209462

dont scare me! :)

I ride waxed chains down to about 10F, and I've had luck making sure that the links are all "released" after a fresh immersion waxing. A fast way to do this is to aggressively roll the chain over a thin dowel a few times on each "side" of the chain. I've also used my fingers to bend each link back and forth a few times, but it's tedious, so I prefer the dowel. Any remaining sluggishness is gone in the first couple of miles.

@@SnaxNoCo well good for you. Ive literally bent all links not just over a small dowel, but to the max

Yeah just make sure not to use a wooden dowel as the dust from abrading the wood will get inside the chain. A steel pipe from the hardware store works great

Is there a drip wax that you can apply and ride on it immediately, with mo setting time? Something with a different solvent that evaporates quickly (ipa possibly, idk). Otherwise, I'd imagine either multiple chains or a high quality oil.

Yes but only if you have prepped the chain properly. Any residual grease will mess up any kind of waxing.

Hey Hyde! what wax, what chain, and what riding? there can be some in some areas where a wax treatment can be pretty done in a 100mile, but it is rare

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the reply! I am using a relatively basic SRAM PC-1170 11-speed chain on my gravel bike, with Squirt drip wax lube. It sounds and feels very good for a little while, but almost always sounds and feels dry by the end of a 3 hour ride. I just checked Squirt Lube's web page and they say it will last from 30 to 300 miles... kind of a wide range.

It can be a slight more faff simply in that the wax treatment will have a longer break in period before it is nice and free - so rather than 10 mins of break in to press out excess and polish up to super low friction - the first 30 mins to an hour might be a drag which for some can be a pain, some not. Hybrid approach is also tricky as even if warm lubricant, it will instantly cool to the very cold chain temp and wont penetrate if chilled to those temps, you will just have wax sitting on outside of chain - so the chain needs to be room temp for hybrid approach. Some find a way to apply lubricant inside and have two chains on rotation so one is room temp to apply ufo / silca etc and then just re wax every approx 5th time so that the harder break in is only every circa 1000 to 1500km per chain, the drip waxes dont have that break in issue.

thanks for the reply, I may try a 2 chain system.@@zerofrictioncycling992

refer page 8 on master link FAQ guide - but in short - the majority of waxers re use non re useable circa 5 times. For road riders this will often be around 1500 to 1800km per link, so cost per 10,000km in links is very low, and way, way offset by the lower wear rates. For those not comfortable to re use , or to re use as much, they should go the hybrid approach - re lube with compatible lubricant 5x, then use new link or new link every 2nd re wax etc to again only need to use about 5 links per 10k km of cycling.

It is generally accepted best practice i think re applying drips on top of chain just prior to cassette, with chain on largest cog and large ring so that the inner parts of the chain link are at max opening - this will aid penetration of lubricant, and then the closing as that straightens over the cassette for that pumping action. If the lubricant doesnt really present with penetration issues - then you dont have to worry much about that. If a lubricant does - like many wax drip lubricants such as squirt / smoove / grax / graphenlube and no doubt many many other untested wax drips - then the above is the recommended approach for sure. No i dont believe paraffin oil will help with wet conditions. Wax is not water soluble - the wax coating bonded to chain will not wash off, it is abraded off. Paraffin oil making wax softer wont help. Some add paraffin oil to wax to soften as they like the feel / easier break in of a softer wax - but there can be some compromises re that ie gunking up more easily, becoming dirtier over time, and it is likely to be slower (only of note for serious racers). It is unlikely to polish up to a super slippery solid coating like the top waxes as is do - giving all sliding surfaces on the chain the lowest possible stiction and basically zero viscous friction. Such elements when there are circa 300,000 individual pieces of sliding surface friction a minute can be the difference between a product being 4w loss outright efficiency or 6w loss etc. Adding paraffin oil is popular DIY wax thing, but aside from it changing the feel of solid wax to suit some more, i am not convinced there are any treatment benefits. things like this if they were for real - we we have heard about it over the years from the experts in the field like josh poertner, like john thomson of mspeedwax etc who is a fanatical cx racer - as pit trick / tip etc. I have not heard of anyone reputable recommending this as something they do or do for their athletes and teams - but if that changes i will for update!

Not a silly question at all, and something that need to be factored in re a couple of decisions. 1) For some chains there are re-useable link options from YBN and wippermann (all 10 and 11spd chains, some 12spd chains). 2) Not saying i advocate it, but many also re use single use links circa 5x. It is possibly unlikely that a link has a safety buffer of 1. But this is a very individual risk assessment scenario. I can say over many years of selling IM wax and chains and links, and literally countless numbers of long time waxing customers re using single use links circa 5x - i know of 2 reported failures in 8 years and millions of waxing kms. We have had many more reported chain snaps across all brands, all chains, than master link re use failures. 3) If a re useable link option is not avail for ones chain model, and one is not comfortable to re-use, then in most cases the cost of using a link each time would greatly impact the viability of IM waxing and offset a huge amount of the wear rate savings $$. In such cases one is best to go the hybrid approach (popular approach anyway) - wax, re lube the next 5x with a compatible wax drip (silca ss drip, UFO all conditions, or tru tension tungsten all weather) and re wax on 5th re lube to reset any contamination starting to build, and use a new link. For most this will be re waxing circa 1000km plus for road, and 500 to 750km for offroad, and one still has the vast majority of the wear rate savings, cleanliness and easiest maintenance. For many other drip lubricant options, if one wasnt properly flush cleaning at around the same time anyway - at likely a similar cost to a new link - they will be paying a higher price in wear. So the hybrid approach is the perfect path for many if IM waxing all the time is not suitable. Hope that helps!

@@zerofrictioncycling992 I agree and also do not think those masterlinks are so fragile so as to become unusable from just a couple of re-mounts. Was wondering what a good hybrid approach would be and received the perfect advice. Thanks a lot! Will try it!

Hey tobias - in my mind i do as i chat to such all around the world that email in with Q's - i just run out of time all the time. For the most, space constricted set ups the waxer needs to sort a system that will work practically for them, and so a slow cooker, old towel, little rig to hang chain (can make a nice one easily from pvc pipes) etc. Care should be taken not to mix fancy waxes with food. If you are using just a food grade paraffin, you are fine. But the top commercial waxes to give you a fancy high performing product with have additives such as moly, ws2, graphite (some other may still have ptfe) - it would be generally not recommended to consume such. Very small amounts are not likely to cause probs but very small amounts cumulative over years / decades - more optimal would not be to do so, and with a towel covering more bench space vs a cloth, it should be easy to avoid contamination.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 i use my normal cloth drying rack. Its now black on the side where the chains are. It of course not high enough. Sometimes i dont balance it right causing chain to drop and really fling the still hot wax around :/ Using MSW old formula so yeah my PTFE levels are probably high. I think cleaning after wet ride is more problematic in fot that because hands are dirty and that sticks to the kettle and sink. Hrm maybe i should move that to the shower.

@@tobias3919 ah - yes dont pour waxy water down sink - it will in time clog your pipes, it sets before it can get far. Pour into a bucket for disposal outside. And re hanging - check out something like the cyclowax kit set up for ideas - it is worth making something that will then just have hanging chain sorted, as once its made, it is made - they dont really wear out - and if it saves faff once made, the time to do so is well worth it (plus..... who doesnt love a good tinker....:))

thanks George! and ah that is the same product just a name change as they introduced 2 new lines being wet conditions and indoor, so the UFO drip v2 (i think it was actually v3 before change) is now called all conditions - great product overall.

Thanks for clarifying - much appreciated!@@zerofrictioncycling992

no the wax will cool over the time it takes to filter and clog filter - best method is to decant into a coffee cup or aluminium tray pressed down in middle to make a cone, cut off tip after cooled and contamination settled - however top waxes you will be cutting out some of your friction modifier additives as well

Hey joseph yes indeed - track riders need to take care that the wax treatment has been fully broken in before hitting the boards with at least a 30 min break in warm up on rollers and then wipe / brush chain, chain ring and cog to ensure no flakes will come off DT and onto track. Racers using race powder also need to take steps to ensure no excess powder is left that can vibrate or dust off onto track - again something that is easy to do, just the responsibility is with the cyclist to ensure - same as throwing on some wet lubricant where excess wet lube can fling off onto track. I have heard some tracks have banned wax chains, so track riders should check / discuss if needed with their club - but it is quite easy to ensure all is fine, it is literally a warm up, brush off, done.

thanks Harale! Depending on a few things wax treatments from silca, mspeedwax (and especially rex) can last 400 to 500km but will likely be feeling and sounding dry for the latter 100km ish - however they will be fine. if it is wet - for that distance nothing will last, any known option at the moment will be washed off in solid wet - the best can last maybe 2 to 3 hours of solid wet. So whether start waxed, or start with a top wet lube - it doesnt matter too much - they will both need re lubing at some point/s to make it to the end with any lubrication. the re lube should be a good wet lube - and in bottle that you can apply a bunch quickly and go. Wax drip not suitable for top up during wet as they are about 50% carrier which is water, until they are set they will wash off very quickly vs oil

nice - let me know how you find - i have only had a chance to test one recently, and that felt great. We finally have an aussie importer for wippermann now so i am going to look at more closely re whether to stock - but overall they have a strong reputation for quality i think

​@@zerofrictioncycling992The import agreement was finalised during the week after my above post . They didn't supply bicycle retailers initially and only supplied a relatively small number as of March 2024 . About 50 shops nationally have them but some are new old stock that had the boy characature on the packaging My chains are from different dates , hence various package appearances . Badger Wax in Alexandria had them but without the manufacturer's approval . This has since been resolved . My molybdenum disulfide and laboratory wax approach is proving good thus far thanks to my industrial chemist . A rider I sponsor/support , used this product at Derby in March in ladies enduro with success . I note that there are now many people making chain lubricants with a wide range of elements and compounds now . Batch waxing is now widespread .

​@@zerofrictioncycling992The Connex Wippermann chain you had mentioned would have been seller older - stock or channel subscriber or friend - supplied . I have been bringing them in from overseas since 2010 . I have quite a variety of them . I was considering sending you a 10S0 or 11S0 for assessment purposes . They are not as quiet as KMC chains "Z" series though . I have supplied KMC DLC chains but they are costly .

alas no - i had a little wire cooler thingy included with one of my pots and i just snipped it to size and bent some prongs down. If you just bought a small cheap cake cooler rack tray thingy and do same wld be easiest i reckon, some by some fine wire mesh from hardware store, cut a circle, bend edges down etc.

pretty much yes - no matter what lubricant one is running - post a wet ride if contamination is not reset, then a lot of it will be in there abrading on your lovely chain parts under very high load causing friction and wear, and as your chain wears it impacts lifespan of often very expensive mtb cassettes. I just do not know any faster, cheaper and easier way to reset chain contamination post harsh conditions rides than 2 pot system. And especially if hitting such conditions often, 2 chains on rotation (one off and into pot, the other on bike) is a great option. it also guarantees you get two chains to your cassette - it can be common for those (drip lubricant riders) hammering one chain in harsh conditions to simply get caught out when chain has zoomed past 0.5% wear rate, wear damage cassette, and need new cassette with new chain which is an ouch $$$$ way to run.

and my bb. and my wheels. I am mr low friction afterall!!! :) Life is too short to ride draggy bikes vs silky lightning!

Hey! havent tried that no - there are a lot of potential cleaning paths / products - assessing all possible good options would be quite a project! No doubt there are other good paths one can take, but mostly we have just needed to recommend what we know for sure works perfectly. Ie without proper assessment - how much WD40 is needed - does it need off bike still and soak or does the spray break down deep inside ok - how long is needed, are multiple applications needed, then alcohol to remove film. cost of using wd40 vs just usually cheap to get mineral turps etc etc. without specially testing properly for any potential product - i just dont know. it would take quite a lot of time resources to properly test a particular solvent - so trying to build up a database of X products you can use and use them this way and this quantity etc - thats not a path i will be embarking on any time soon! Definitely mostly will be sticking to recommending simply what has been already ascertained and that if turps / metho not easily available then using something like UFO DT clean or silca stripper would be the recommendation. But yeah if you are bored read some forums on cleaning chains. Holy batman. You will find a lot of interesting stuff there you can test :) So yep maybe wd40 is great, i just dont know, and as yet, no plans to find out :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks for the thorough answer. I'm using mineral spirits, but was just pondering. I may do some experiments though. My process is to use one of those parts washers that has a pump and nozzle. I can put four new chains in a 1L/1Q Mason/canning jar. I stick the wand down in the bottom of the upright jar and let it run. This floats all of the factory lube out the top of the jar. After that, I do a final wash of each chain in clean mineral spirits using a separate container and then proceed with the two container rinse with denatured alcohol like you use. Also using the two pot system with three chains in rotation. Thanks for all of your insights.

it is a brilliant product it just simply is such a different wax base it is not recommended as an option to use with immersive waxing - it is really a top option for those who are NOT going to immersive wax.

Thank you for the answer!

Hey jim! Generally should be fine the main thing is it would be easy is to spot heat the lubricant to a point where the wax / lubricant is damaged. So whilst damage to components should be very low with careful use, much more care would need to be taken to ensure not overheating and damaging the wax drip itself

the general recommended time to change for most is around 30 re waxes - which for most on road is about 10,000km or circa 5000km ish of road. A bag of wax lasts a long time (and you can double the above for 2 pot system). Over time after a lot of rewaxes - there will be a bit of build up of some contamination that has been brought in, as well as wax fill level getting lower and lower as you take about 3 to 5 grams out each re wax, so the wax left is just not quite as amazing as when new. it can be hard to tell difference but over time due to contamination treatment lifespans will start to get a little shorter. For many simply when fill level is quite low, its time to change to a fresh batch.

I use super secret chain coating on my road bike after ur results , but unsure if be any good for cx

thanks adam! this is a great question i need to cover one day - but the answer/s arent too mind blowing really - full mudder cx can be such an extreme lubrication challenge that really it can be just trying to be less horrendous. There is a big variance from a race thats fairly wet, some mud to a full mudder where people are stopping every lap for a bike change. I will assume its the former - and in that case still in general best is to start immersive waxed, and if that is gone such that things are getting really bad - then topping up with any wet lube that you cang get on quickly, and in quantity, without getting onto brake disc - thats your best bet. you can use top products like synergetic etc but to throw them on quickly - and if its that muddy they will still only last a lap or two - that can be very expensive. Avoid known crap lubes that barely last in normal conditions- really if you can get any quality oil, in a bottle you can apply a lot through the chain in a hurry - that will be as good as you can do really - and then it is a full reset obviously after the race.

Hey Rick, from the master link FAQ guide - instructions tab on ZFC website; SINGLE USE VS MULTIPLE USE MASTER LINKS Alrighty so this question comes up a lot - with many 12spd systems (shimano, sram eagle, sram axs road) where you really should use that mfg link for that chain, and the link is officially single use - this would be problematic if hoping to move to immersive waxing as cost of using a new link every time would completely blow out the savings you are achieving from much lower chain and drivetrain wear rates from immersive waxing with a proven top wax (Mspeedwax / silca hot melt, not DIY wax or WEND WAX). I cannot advise you to go against manufacturer instructions, this is a call you must make yourself as to whether or not you re-use an officially single use link. What I can say is that in all the years and countless immersive waxers re-using single use links circa 5x same as YBN QRS links - to date I know of one (1) link failure. I personally re-use my mtb eagle links on eagle training chain 5x, and same for shimano xtr 12 chain with shimano link. With well over 100,000km of personal cycling on immersive waxing, I have never had a failure of these links doing such. But - I’m not super powerful, and I don’t change gears like some do. I know some riders who break multiple chains a year across multiple brands, I’ve never broken a chain in my life. Some of these I am able to regularly out power as a race goes on, so the power difference between us cannot be that massive. I can only deduce that some riders who suffer constant chain failures regardless of brand tend to change gears under very high pedaling loads, and others who never break a chain, change gears as one is meant too. Electronic shifting has drastically increased chain breakage rates as people shift under loads they never would have attempted with mechanical shifting. The likelihood of a master link failure (re using or not) is more likely going to be attributed to your shifting pattern vs re-using circa 5 times. Again, this is my OPINION - not stated as fact, nor have I been able to control test - all information is anecdotal - albeit from a rather enormous immersive waxing customer base over 5+ years of operation now. However - If you are not comfortable re-using an officially single use master link, but you want to immersively wax to get the huge drivetrain longevity & low friction and cleanliness benefits of immersive waxing with a proven top wax (NOT DIY WAX OR WEND WAX), thankfully now there is a product designed specifically for use in conjunction with immersive waxing; Silca Super Secret Drip. So main recommendation if not comfortable to re-use single use links is to start waxed, re lube next circa 5 x re-lubes with silca ss drip, then re-wax to reset any contamination that has started to build, and use a new link. Also ALWAYS use a new link for any important race. And - I do not recommend re-using links more than 5x just to be safe. They don’t cost that much at all for the km’s / hours you get from 5x re-uses for 5 x wax treatments - you will still save a lot by immersive waxing overall on your extremely low drivetrain wear - it well outweighs cost of links - so there is no need to risk pushing re-uses to 10 etc. Try to stay at 5. You will get to feel fairly quickly when you should replace a link. Each time you re-use, it is easier to reconnect, until it is easily done by hand vs using a tool. You should replace a link by this time. Used links like this are the best links to carry as your spare link in case of a failure / chain break as you can easily install on the road / trail. Some brands new links (ie shimano) have EXTREMELY tight locking channels that can be beyond the strength of some customers even with a tool, let alone a mid ride install with no tool, so carry a used vs new master link in your emergency pack. For all 7,8,9,10 & 11spd chains you have the option of YBN QRS links which are officially 5x re-usable, and also for YBN 12spd chain. There are more variances in 12spd chains - check 12spd chain compatibility guide which also covers master link compatibility.

Hey james - personally for such trips i am a fan re recommending a spare chain to pop on half way. Without immersive waxing to reset contamination - over time the friction and wear of chain will increase after days and days of such riding - and for many wax drips - 150km per day offroad (loaded) - can put those treatment lifespans to a bit of a stretch - some find they may need to top up that day - then its running wet so more contamination etc. And then if you have wet day/days - then you have a bunch of contamination in there that will just be abrading way for rest of the trip pretty much unless you have a way of maintaining. Two chains = half the wear (and you have a back up if one crunched loaded shift of chain line angle bends / breaks a link). And yes you can re two pot - this not that you will bring a few grams of cheap wax into your good pot 2 wax each time, but as long as cheap wax is not rubbish - thats ok, and its only for first round anyway, when its time for pot 2 to move over to be pot one, from then on you are on same same

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Great information thanks, already recommended this vid to my LBS!

thanks steve! Instant pots can be good for some as heat up quicker (but not too quick - too quick can damage wax) - and most have temp set function so you can never get too hot - ie just set to 90dg can and boom, every time - 90dg c. No the silca method i do not recommend at all - that just makes a mess and wastes more wax - the pressures inside chain are too high, in 10 to 15 mins of riding you will have same very thin wax layer inside chain hanging to cool straight from pot on a 40dg day as you do removing when wax cool and hanging in a cold place to lock in more wax - all you have is a lot more waste wax and mess. no you do not need to worry about chain hanging direction. some chains are directional (shimano / sram flat top) and most are not - if chain is not directional you dont need to worry re what direction install, non of the chains you need to worry re how you hang post wax - wax will be coating all parts from submersion, excess will be pressed out as you ride, leaving thing coating behind on all parts. i think chains will stick to parchment. ha yes - some people absolutely WAY overthink it - hence why the wax FAQ doc and vid is frankly nuts. 99% it is just remove chain, pop on pot and turn on, swish later when melted and hang to set, break wax bond and re install chain before next ride. Any deeper thinking than that really should be only for race chains, two pot system, hybrid system, post wet rides etc - a huge amount of the FAQ is really for the overthinking category - just relax and wax should be a new mantra :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks. Really appreciate the detailed reply. wax is on its way, I'll get two small crock pots ordered now.

yes if its dry then all fine, and it can be a good step if its really dusty and fine dust as some will have penetrated past sides of rollers and in between inner and outer plate links so it wont be removed from a surface wipe. The main thing with some that are doing a boiling water flush rinse pre every re wax is that they can tend to get a little slack with drying, and over time constant small amount of water being brought in can seem to be not great for the waxing - and so it has for some worked out much worse waxing wet vs not rinsing chain and the small amount of dust that comes in to wax instead

​@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks to you, I have jumped on the waxing bandwagon. Over that past 4 decades, I tried dozens of different lubes, but they were all pretty much the same messy PITA. Wax is so much better! I save so much time not having to clean my drivetrains like in the old days. I'm also saving a bunch of money not replacing chains, cassettes, and rings so often. My bikes are cleaner, faster, and easier to maintain. I really appreciate all of your hard work.

sort of - if you are not worried about ensuring yr fancy friction modifier additives are evenly distributed though the wax, then to a good degree you can as you dont need to swish much at all will just a base paraffin so you should be able to avoid stirring up contamination on the bottom much

thanks johan - check the chain prep guide (concise or full guide) instructions tab - zero friciton cycling website - it is all easy and covers prep of either new or existing chains, on or off bike (off is best) etc

Thanks! ooh memory test - i am pretty sure that is just a 500ml cast iron fondu pot i grabbed from a market place. As i have a lot of pots (testing waxes for various companies, plus mix of commercial waxes) - it became easier for me to run an induction plate to pop on whatever pot i wanted vs having so many more plug in pots, and that was just a nice cheap one for my personal pot 1 - main thing is yeah i had to bend a smaller swisher to fit in it :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 - Thank you

can do either - many start with one and then move to two over time when all settled in to waxed life and want to go next level. Some will skip straight to that next level especially offroad cyclists, it is one extra bag at the start -but over many years / decades of cycling, that amortises out just fine in no time :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992 thanks for the reply. Can't believe how much time I spend watching KZfaq videos about looking after bicycle chains. Watched the ultrasonic test video with the aluminium foil today. Really appreciate the work you put into all this free, testing based information

thanks steve and ha thats very funny! i am always mildy amazed that anyone actually watches me waffle on about chain lubrication - it is very heart warming when one does and enjoys so thankyou for that!

It is a brilliant product but its a very different wax, it doesnt seem to be the best to mix with immersive waxing - when tried - both immersive wax treatment and then also FP applications - they feel and sound dry quickly - it just seems to affect the bonding with the more oily type wax that is the sunflower base wax

For UFO drivetrain clean that is meant to be rinsed with hot water - that is actually part of activating the film that it is designed to leave behind that promotes wax bonding - so boiling / hot water rinse for UFO clean, not alcohol / metho

@@zerofrictioncycling992 Thanks Adam.

sorry delay - been away! alas never heard of them, you have a link for them?

yes indeed, if you are not on an asphalt road, you are offroad! :)

@@zerofrictioncycling992it doesn’t hurt to just to go ahead and clean in boiling water first does it.

@@garynoble668 yes and no. For one - if it is going to do basically zero benefit, it is a waste of time and electricity. Over the years -pretty much every year we get a handful of cases where there is premature wear for a waxer. Almost always it turns out that person was boiling water rinsing every time - even if they only rode in dry road conditions. Those doing every time tend to get slack with drying before waxing - and this is what seems to cause the issue. the premature wear has stopped next chain when the boiling water rinsing every time stopped, or if chain is properly dried first. But again why do the time to boiling water rinse, dispose of waxy water, blow dry chain etc if the benefit is so small it could never be objectively ascertained (ie chain lifespan improvement). It is great post proper wet rides as water brings so much crap in. Dust really has trouble getting very far, and the very small difference re what brought into pot post removing surface dust with a quick wipe - it is simply difficult to recommend that is a good return for the time - but correct - it shouldnt hurt - IF chain is properly dried pre waxing.

alas no not really - any wipe will only clean some external contamination. water brings contamination right through the chain, it will get pressed into wax deep inside, and from there its locked in until you remove it. Imagine removing seals off your bearings etc - they would feel pretty rough after. one could wipe them and add more grease, but a lot of crap will still be in there unless properly cleaned out. If one wanted bearings not to suffer damage and high wear, thats what would have to do. chain is way more exposed, and working a lot harder. You have to pay the piper one way or the other post wet rides - a little bit of time to reset, or pay the piper with friction and wear - its an extreme lubrication challenge, there is no way to keep a chain low friction post such riding without some intervention.

Correct - normally ZFC is pretty aligned with Josh re info on waxing and lubrication, however i have always advised against the cooling of wax before removing chain, all it does really is create a mess. Pressures inside chain are VERY high, after 10 mins of riding you will have the save thin coating of wax on parts that matter - getting more wax in by removing near set temp just = a lot more mess in first10 mins of riding.

Hey stephen! yes i have a little bit different recommendation sometimes vs silca - we are aligned on most things waxing, but not quite all. The pressures inside chain are just super duper high, and so after about 10 mins of cycling, there is a very thin layer of wax left, and this layer will be the same if you remove chain and 100dg c and hang to set on a 40dg day, vs if you remove at 75dg or just as wax starting to skin, and hang to set somewhere cold. All you get for the latter is a lot more excess wax pressed out, as well as excess on the outside to flake off. So everyone will be in same spot after 10 to 15mins riding re wax layer coating internal parts of the chain, just the cooler approach makes a lot more mess. So mostly a successful waxing is simply about ensuring wax is viscous enough for a good waxing, but not exceeding wax happy temp that may start to damage the wax, and for the commercial products of msw / hot melt / rex - 70 to 100dg c is in that window, so it is a pretty big target to hit with an ol slow cooker or crock pot. Mspeedwax recommend 90 i think as the textbook perfect temp - but (and i have cleared this temp with them) - there are times such prepping bushing track chains that to ensure penetration to pin we are going to up to 105c - thats the max recommended temp to push to for msw at the moment. You would not be able to track a difference re wax performance / chain wear etc if you waxed every time at 75 or 90 or 100 - just the higher scale = more wax dripping back into pot, and less mess / flakes each break in.

@@zerofrictioncycling992Thanks for that . As you say , the wax in the chain thins out quickly under load . I'm not going to bug Silca over this any more. At least now they seem to be changing their advice away from the wax skinning temp ( removing a time consuming process ) to one a bit higher at 75C that the Stripchip pot uses. Years ago I tried removing a chain as the wax surface solidified and on the bike created a nightmare of chain skipping and a wax covered floor. I tried to validate Josh's remark that at 90 to 100C wax is 'essentially the viscosity of water' . If you look up ... anton-par Viscosity Tables and Viscosity Charts there are sublinks for both paraffin wax and water. There is a viscosity table for candle wax at various temperatures and also for different densities of food grade wax at 100 deg C. For the candle wax, raising the temperature from 65 to 100 deg C nearly halves both the dynamic and kinematic viscosities ( not dramatic ). Note that water at 20 deg C has values around 1 for each viscosity type and the candle wax at 100 deg C has values of 3 and 4. The food grade waxes in that data had viscosities double or triple that of the candle wax at the same temperature , so maybe 10 times that of water ! You would expect that as the extra oil in the candle wax would thin it. I don't know the effect of the friction modifiers but generally from experience , solid particles in a liquid tend to thicken them. So I am skeptical of Josh's statement !

@@dawn_rider yes is something that if Josh / silca are certain on, and they have schmick testing facilities there - then they could release some data - i think i would need to see some test data of extended treatment lifespan for the remove cool wax vs remove hot wax to counter what we believe is likely happening re no matter if remove at 100 dg, you dont need much to stay in there to still have a thicker coating than what you would have after 10 mins riding, which will then be very thin - thinner than any natural amount left from waxing. I could test as well, just resources, i dont want to do 2 x S.A.L tests to prove something we are already 99.999999999999999999% certain on. So i think it should be more on Silca in this case to substantiate the remove cooler information / instruction and what benefit that brings for doing so vs me to substantiate otherwise as yeah... there is still excess pressed out when removed from hot wax, it would be extraordinarily suprising if the wax coating left inside was thinnner, and thus shortened any treatment lifespan, that the very thin coating thats there after initial break in.

@@zerofrictioncycling992I agree that considering their testing resources the onus should be on Silca to back up their statements. You already have far to much other testing to do ! If they are wrong and say you only gain an extra 10km at 75 deg C v 100 deg C I can't see them just saying so ? They did change their advice on waxing the quick links so I live in hope !

Other lubes will simply retain abrasive grit, essentially making a grinding paste--which isn't good for your cassette. I've been riding a tandem MTB (twice the power to the drive chain!) with wax, and it works great. I do keep several freshly-waxed chains ready, so that I can pop a fresh chain on after long rides. Since waxing a batch of chains is so much easier than cleaning and lubing the old way, I save a bunch of time as well.

Not so if you are using ceramic or dry lubes. My finish line dry ceramic will stay clean (spotless, no grind) for several rides and just needs a wipe after ride and relube drop every 5/6 rides, no noise, no grinding paste, super free chain...and no crock pot hassles, chain rotations and other funny stuff@@SnaxNoCo

Hey oliver! something is going very wrong with yours. Aside from my own where my cassettes have basically zero wear after many years and thousands of kms of harsh riding - that is the same for others, and over time myself and other retailers like mspeedwax, silca etc - we have countless thousands of mtb waxers and racers and so A LOT of long term customer data. Most will get typically 6 to 10 hours of silky smooth super low friction, super low wear to all drivetrain components. There are some places in the world where the very fine, very abrasive dust can actually cause very short treatment lifespans - like one 60 to 100km ride with elevation. The noise and feel they get in the larger cogs is that the wax has been abraded off from between sides of roller and inner link plate, and inner link plate to outer link plate - so on high chain line angles as those surfaces see some load, and all that is left is dust between metal - then its very tell tale sound and feel that the treatment is done on those parts. Deeper in chain on main load surfaces (pin etc) - dust has a very hard time getting that deep with solid wax lubricant. So a) if you have prepped chain correctly and using a good wax - to rule out poor DIY wax experience - it may be that you are in a very abrasive environment, and simply need to re wax often - can for some in say arizona etc literally be as often as every couple of mid week rides and lasts one big weekend ride. Simply doing that, they attain chain and cassette lifespans WAY beyond anything they have had with drip lubricants. Remember if the environment is challenging your wax coating, it will be turning a drip lubricant into grinding paste / cutting fluid. Resetting that is way more work than a re wax. You should not getting high cassette wear even if wax treatment is done unless you are running chain worn. The outside of the chain basically does not need lubrication to run on rings / cassette. A little bit of wax coating helps and is nice , but not strictly necessary. Rollers should simply slot into teeth, and then there is just a tiny bit of movement as it settles into the spot it will hold as load is introduced. Overall there is extremely little movement between roller and tooth face, so there is basically no lubrication needed. However if chain is worn, the roller will be abrading down the surface of the tooth every single time. Check GPLama vid as a good independent riders first assessment of running wax chains offroad. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/odKceZdy3dSboIk.html whatever you can attain with drip lubricant, unless doing things wrong - you can smash with immersive waxing, and the more so the harsher the conditions one typically rides in, there just is no easier way to keep chain lubrication super low contamination. It can just take some understanding of ones riding conditions and the treatment lifespans corresponding to that.

hi ZFC...i follow and agree 100% on every point. Just guess the conditions we have out here in the Var area in south of France are close to Arizona: ultra abrasive.Reading the comment on mileage etc that's about it and 34 x51- Garbaruk steel/alu- cassette (Cannondale Ai on Fsi) does work the chain quite a bit on hard climbs (11% and up). The chain is in a good state and looked upon every after ride as the is the entire bike: cleaned (little or no water),checked, lubed wiped down. @@zerofrictioncycling992

@@oliverleclere1829 I tried Finish Line Dry Ceramic for a year, and it was pretty similar to other wet lubes. ZFC reviewed it, and it doesn't come out that well. But, hey, if you're happy with it, then enjoy. Personally, I've given up wet lubes--although I'm still holding on to a few old bottles of Chain-L, in the event that I need to ride back-to-back days in heavy rain without a chance to change chains. Like all wet lubes, Chain-L will become a cutting paste from grit, but it does stay smooth in the rain/snow/slush on multi-day rides.

FP is a brilliant product, simply the wax base is completely different and is not one of the recommended to use with immersive waxing. The sunflower seed base runs almost like a bit of an oily base, and so re waxes over the top just are not the same as if using a wax drip with a refined paraffin base.

@@zerofrictioncycling992 They do claim they are compatible with other immersion waxes... But your information explains my experience, thanks a lot!