I believe the storyline changed because showrunners changed. In Season 6 and 7 the writers intended Nathan as end game.Season 8 and 9 ,different showrunner so story changed thats why things are not adding up.Its simple.

Thanks for this great podcast! It really helped me see that my problem with the flip was exactly that, too much history to overcome in one season to even remotely allow this new love story to be feasible. It must be the poor storytelling that allows them to repeat so many scenes rather than creating an entire new love story with new twists and turns for E and N. This is another reason I can’t accept it all, it is a new story so why repeat the old scenes, it was just hurtful. I do appreciate your analysis Roxanne, with helping us to understand why it has been so very difficult to accept.

Roxanne, I like that you are unbiased in how you unpack scenes. I find this fascinating because it's the reason why I rewatch scenes there is so much subtext and things I don't catch the first time around. I have been rewatching season 9 and 10. Although we differ on love interests I care about the integrity of the show. As a viewer I never thought they would do a flip but rewatching and comparing 9 & 10 perhaps it should have been clear. I was confused when people kept saying the romance is far less in season 9. I don't usually keep track of the kiss count but now I see there was way more romance in season 9. In season 10 episode 3, the baby shower episode Lucas and Elizabeth only had one scene together at the very end of the episode. I really hope you continue to review episodes and scenes this way. I have also been reminded of how many plot lines were dropped that could have been great to see, like the book wagon. Thank you

My schedule doesn't allow me to join the live podcast at 5pm PT. Thank you for this podcast and the analysis. You makes total sense and all the photos you used as examples are only a fraction of why it was hard to embrace N&E relationship and cast Lucas aside because he was safe choice. The L&E moments showed a lot of chemistry and you could see it in their eyes if not in their smiles and body language. Even E's tone of voice was different when talking to Lucas. I've rewatched S6E4 numerous times and thought how refreshing this episode. There was a brightness about it even when they had the difficult task to send off Abigail to care for her mother. S6 - S9 had great storylines. I've bought S1 - S9, and not 10 or 11. I've erased most of S11 except for the the beginning and last 3 episodes to rewatch and give it another chance. I'll continue to watch WCTH even though it has lost its luster for me. Thanks Roxanne again for keeping it real.

I'm so sorry that I am in another time zone, I wish I could comment live with you. Good job with the podcast :-*

Late to the party but she gave the same advice to Ned

Thanks for pointing out why it will forever be hard for E/L fans to get on board with E/N .. not just because we might have issues with them as a couple but because the writing just isn’t helping when all they do is taint/trash E&L on their way to make E/N a viable option. I will say it’s almost 80% confirmed that Chris McNally will be in a Christmas movie. One of the Hallmark media channels posted a clip of the 2024 countdown to christmas movies and there’s a very short clip of what looks like CM & LF .. they realized their mistake and took the clip down (HM social media have had a lot blunders this year) 😂. LB fans did take a snap of the moment, I know there’s a picture/small gif of the moment somewhere in the internet. A big LF fan also confirmed that she’s seen BTS pics & it is CM in the movie with her. Some fans did some digging and they figured out the movie could be called Christmas Crashers.

I absolutely love that you took the time to analyze the scene and why it didn’t connect well with us. I hope you do more of these and I can’t wait for next week podcast. This is why I’m not onboard with the current show-runner. She doesn’t really seem to understand any of these characters and how they think. This is why the writing isn’t working the way they think it’s working. I’m hoping that they improve in season 12, but with the way they are running the show, I’m not all that excited about it.

I really love your strategy in deliberately taking snaps of scenes to demonstrate the why for the angst of many WCTH fans. What happened in season 10 was heartbreaking and truly has been hard to bend our minds and hearts around it let alone get onboard with demolishing the actual story we full heartedly engaged with from season 6-9. There is a sting in it especially that we haven’t been acknowledged. I agree with what you are saying 100%. Sometimes it is nice to be able to express what one is thinking and feeling. There were disappointed fans at the end of season 8, but Nathan was just an option at that point. There was zero concrete storyline that Nathan was more than that. The 180 degree turn with Lucas is no comparison to that. I think that bothers me…..no one besides Lucas fans are willing to even give a nod toward us. I have tried to interpret little things during this season as a little bit of hope maybe the writers are giving us tiny nods. The scene with Nathan’s party and ‘He’s a jolly good fellow’ song….that made me have ‘haha, jokes on N&E’ moment. Not gonna lie….it felt good. There was a couple of other moments that I can’t recall off the cuff right now. The way I figure is that the writers are essentially having to demolish their own writing from the past seasons, too, which can’t be easy as an artist, either. Maybe those tiny moments give them some satisfaction, too. I don’t know. Chris is talented. He had many scenes where he got to shine. He works hard to be what he needs to be. It’s his occupation regardless of what he is asked to do. The same with everyone else. I don’t truly believe he wouldn’t have shined as a husband and dad. It comes down to can I effectively ignore it all enough to enjoy the talent? Can I overlook the way they really did disparage Lucas’ character and back up the shady camp idea? When Lucas is admitting ‘I am not that person anymore’. It was truly sad. That storyline could have been told much differently. Also, the suggestion from Rosemary and Elizabeth that Lucas put her on a pedestal is very cringey to me because it is not even factually accurate OR lining up at all with the reality of the psychology of that concept. People who put others on a pedestal are typically lacking in confidence & have low self esteem. They become dependent on what that person thinks of them. They conform themselves to it. That notion fits way better with Nathan than Lucas. Anyway…..it is hard to peel back the zillions of layers which is being required of us.

Nathan é Elizabeth lindos juntos

Espero que a série não estrague tudo por favor deixem Nathan e Elizabeth juntos fantástico

What a great podcast tonight ,I loved it & you are absolutly 💯 right about everything you said.But I have moved on because I want to enjoy the show & watch Chris at his best.❤

I don't understand why they changed the story. Or even if they did, they could do it differently, not so suddenly and take into account everything that was built in the 10 seasons. Could Erin and Kevin and their desire to play together influence this decision?

Christmas with Chris

Brian Bird is saying now if they (N&E) are heading in that direction (marriage) Nathan has backed off of saying end game

What the writers are trying to do is cram in a bunch of romance in one season for E&N that took E&L four and a half seasons to develop. That's why this mess is not working Lol It's way too forced and disjointed. E&L's love story was so well written,nit unfolded before our eyes like a flower in full bloom 🌷🌺🥰 it was so obvious that L was the man for E. I feel like originally, N was just there to add to the drama of the triangle but there were more scenes, more flirting and more interactions between E&L than her and N. This is a small detail, but when L came to E's house and gave her flowers, we got to see her reaction to it. As L was walking away, we see N headed to her house with flowers as well but they don't show her reaction to his flowers because it didn't matter.

Why did she choose Nathan's hand at the shower as the one you are meant to be with and not Lucas's hand.