Roxanne, great podcast. Like I said last time Lillian is a kick. She nails her analysis and all her research is wonderful! If you should decide to watch season 12, it might be fun for Lillian to come on with you occasionally or even full time.

I discovered your podcast through Facebook and I'm so happy I did! You guys knocked it out of the park with your discussions and everything you said was spot on! Lillian is the best! I thought Chris did an exceptional job this season despite the retconning and villainizing of his character. Lucas has become one of my favorite characters and I hope he gets to a place of happiness, whatever that looks like. I do find it funny, however, that despite Elizabeth being the main character, she's rather shallow this season and last. Whereas Lucas is a deep well of endless possibilities, much like Henry. The whole Jeanette storyline was great, if you ignore the history of the show, the ending with Lucas was *chef's kiss*. However, Elizabeth was so unnecessary in that hostage situation to the point it was almost comical. The only reason she was there was so she and Nathan could fall into the hay wagon, which was conveniently right below the balcony. Isn't it ironic that Lucas had a more gripping scene with Jeanette than the main couple rolling in the hay? For me, Elizabeth and Nathan, are wooden. Especially Elizabeth, who is supposed to be our main character. I expect a main character to have strengths and weaknesses, to have flaws and be imperfect, to be human. However, with Elizabeth, she's lost her humanity and turned into a robot who the writers are afraid to upset. The writers and Nathan put her on a pedestal and make her a prize to be won, a consolation prize if you will. Nathan can be a great character, but when tied down to the anchor that's Elizabeth, he suffers greatly. I hope the writers take into account everything we're saying and fix the writing for next season. I truly wish only the best to the actors and crew members!

The writing was dumb is an understatement lol It was completely asinine! This whole ruse of Jeanette being engaged to Lucas was their sad attempt to try to validate Elizabeth and Nathan's relationship by trashing Lucas's character to make him shady and a bit dishonest with Elizabeth. Jack didn't tell Elizabeth about him being engaged to Rosemary, and they were legit really engaged but she broke it off. So, to try to drudge up this mess about Lucas not telling Elizabeth about him being engaged to Jeanette which we later find out he really wasn't It was just something that she mostly talked about, it's just sad and uncreative writing. It would be nice to have a new villain in the show just to spice things up, and if that's what they wanted to do with Jeanette then that's fine but they did not have to touch Lucas's character in order to do it. Because he could have very well left New Orleans when he found out that Jeanette was a con artist or whatever she was supposed to be. This is why the retcon is just not working for me because it was already established in S6-9 that Lucas operated on the straight and narrow. He even got upset with Henry when they first established Gowan petroleum because Henry undercut prices to make that other guy go out of business and Lucas told him that he understood that what he did was not illegal but it was borderline unethical and he doesn't operate that way. That was him establishing the type of honest businessman and individual that we've known him to be. When Elizabeth shared her first manuscript of short stories with him to proofread, Lucas told her he would never be anything but honest with her. Again establishing the type of man that he is. In that honesty is will led her to become a published author, btw. So now. He's been keeping secrets from Elizabeth Really?? All so that they can again validate Elizabeth's decision to break off her engagement with Lucas in order to jump into a lackluster romance with Nathan 🙄 me personally, I think they really wasted The character of Jeanette on this storyline although it did make an interesting plot for Lucas. I say that because in season 9 when Lucas brought up Jeanette working for the treasury department and she had gone missing when he was trying to work with her to bring down Walden, I thought it would have been interesting to have the reason of her disappearance be because Walden got wind of Jeanette's involvement with Lucas's grift on him and so he sent his men to get her. Lucas finds out and has to work with Nathan to rescue her. They then could have brought her in as a reoccurring character that decides to settle in Hope Valley and open a private detective agency much to the chagrin of Nathan since he's the law in Hope Valley. They could buttheads a bit but then have the team up to solve crimes together. That would have been really interesting to see Nathan have to work with Lucas's best friend.

Was there a disconnect between Erin and Chris or was this all writers change.

Thank you this recap Lillian is delightful

By the way I invite anyone to watch the silliest scene ever on WCTH. I don't remember the season but it's when Ned bumps his head in the Mercantile and gets a paper cut. RM sees the spot of blood and is immediately alarmed, Carson comes in to bandage the wound. 😀

Roxanne, I rewatched Lillian's recap of episode 11 and I'm telling you that I was doubling over laughing. Just when I think my favourite show couldn't get any soapier. I absolutely love WCTH but the writer's deciding on another hostage scene in the saloon, really. I also think Jeanette dreamt up her alias name from her favourite cashmere shawl 😃

It could be a video game the whole Elizabeth always getting in harm's way when something gangstah is going down in the saloon. Lol!

Espero que a série não estrague tudo por favor deixem Nathan e Elizabeth juntos fantástico

Nathan é Elizabeth lindos juntos

Roxanne, I like that you are unbiased in how you unpack scenes. I find this fascinating because it's the reason why I rewatch scenes there is so much subtext and things I don't catch the first time around. I have been rewatching season 9 and 10. Although we differ on love interests I care about the integrity of the show. As a viewer I never thought they would do a flip but rewatching and comparing 9 & 10 perhaps it should have been clear. I was confused when people kept saying the romance is far less in season 9. I don't usually keep track of the kiss count but now I see there was way more romance in season 9. In season 10 episode 3, the baby shower episode Lucas and Elizabeth only had one scene together at the very end of the episode. I really hope you continue to review episodes and scenes this way. I have also been reminded of how many plot lines were dropped that could have been great to see, like the book wagon. Thank you

I absolutely love that you took the time to analyze the scene and why it didn’t connect well with us. I hope you do more of these and I can’t wait for next week podcast. This is why I’m not onboard with the current show-runner. She doesn’t really seem to understand any of these characters and how they think. This is why the writing isn’t working the way they think it’s working. I’m hoping that they improve in season 12, but with the way they are running the show, I’m not all that excited about it.

I really love your strategy in deliberately taking snaps of scenes to demonstrate the why for the angst of many WCTH fans. What happened in season 10 was heartbreaking and truly has been hard to bend our minds and hearts around it let alone get onboard with demolishing the actual story we full heartedly engaged with from season 6-9. There is a sting in it especially that we haven’t been acknowledged. I agree with what you are saying 100%. Sometimes it is nice to be able to express what one is thinking and feeling. There were disappointed fans at the end of season 8, but Nathan was just an option at that point. There was zero concrete storyline that Nathan was more than that. The 180 degree turn with Lucas is no comparison to that. I think that bothers me…..no one besides Lucas fans are willing to even give a nod toward us. I have tried to interpret little things during this season as a little bit of hope maybe the writers are giving us tiny nods. The scene with Nathan’s party and ‘He’s a jolly good fellow’ song….that made me have ‘haha, jokes on N&E’ moment. Not gonna lie….it felt good. There was a couple of other moments that I can’t recall off the cuff right now. The way I figure is that the writers are essentially having to demolish their own writing from the past seasons, too, which can’t be easy as an artist, either. Maybe those tiny moments give them some satisfaction, too. I don’t know. Chris is talented. He had many scenes where he got to shine. He works hard to be what he needs to be. It’s his occupation regardless of what he is asked to do. The same with everyone else. I don’t truly believe he wouldn’t have shined as a husband and dad. It comes down to can I effectively ignore it all enough to enjoy the talent? Can I overlook the way they really did disparage Lucas’ character and back up the shady camp idea? When Lucas is admitting ‘I am not that person anymore’. It was truly sad. That storyline could have been told much differently. Also, the suggestion from Rosemary and Elizabeth that Lucas put her on a pedestal is very cringey to me because it is not even factually accurate OR lining up at all with the reality of the psychology of that concept. People who put others on a pedestal are typically lacking in confidence & have low self esteem. They become dependent on what that person thinks of them. They conform themselves to it. That notion fits way better with Nathan than Lucas. Anyway…..it is hard to peel back the zillions of layers which is being required of us.

I believe the storyline changed because showrunners changed. In Season 6 and 7 the writers intended Nathan as end game.Season 8 and 9 ,different showrunner so story changed thats why things are not adding up.Its simple.

Why did she choose Nathan's hand at the shower as the one you are meant to be with and not Lucas's hand.

My schedule doesn't allow me to join the live podcast at 5pm PT. Thank you for this podcast and the analysis. You makes total sense and all the photos you used as examples are only a fraction of why it was hard to embrace N&E relationship and cast Lucas aside because he was safe choice. The L&E moments showed a lot of chemistry and you could see it in their eyes if not in their smiles and body language. Even E's tone of voice was different when talking to Lucas. I've rewatched S6E4 numerous times and thought how refreshing this episode. There was a brightness about it even when they had the difficult task to send off Abigail to care for her mother. S6 - S9 had great storylines. I've bought S1 - S9, and not 10 or 11. I've erased most of S11 except for the the beginning and last 3 episodes to rewatch and give it another chance. I'll continue to watch WCTH even though it has lost its luster for me. Thanks Roxanne again for keeping it real.

I don't understand why they changed the story. Or even if they did, they could do it differently, not so suddenly and take into account everything that was built in the 10 seasons. Could Erin and Kevin and their desire to play together influence this decision?

Christmas with Chris

Brian Bird is saying now if they (N&E) are heading in that direction (marriage) Nathan has backed off of saying end game

Late to the party but she gave the same advice to Ned

Thanks for this great podcast! It really helped me see that my problem with the flip was exactly that, too much history to overcome in one season to even remotely allow this new love story to be feasible. It must be the poor storytelling that allows them to repeat so many scenes rather than creating an entire new love story with new twists and turns for E and N. This is another reason I can’t accept it all, it is a new story so why repeat the old scenes, it was just hurtful. I do appreciate your analysis Roxanne, with helping us to understand why it has been so very difficult to accept.

I'm so sorry that I am in another time zone, I wish I could comment live with you. Good job with the podcast :-*

What the writers are trying to do is cram in a bunch of romance in one season for E&N that took E&L four and a half seasons to develop. That's why this mess is not working Lol It's way too forced and disjointed. E&L's love story was so well written,nit unfolded before our eyes like a flower in full bloom 🌷🌺🥰 it was so obvious that L was the man for E. I feel like originally, N was just there to add to the drama of the triangle but there were more scenes, more flirting and more interactions between E&L than her and N. This is a small detail, but when L came to E's house and gave her flowers, we got to see her reaction to it. As L was walking away, we see N headed to her house with flowers as well but they don't show her reaction to his flowers because it didn't matter.

What a great podcast tonight ,I loved it & you are absolutly 💯 right about everything you said.But I have moved on because I want to enjoy the show & watch Chris at his best.❤

Thanks for pointing out why it will forever be hard for E/L fans to get on board with E/N .. not just because we might have issues with them as a couple but because the writing just isn’t helping when all they do is taint/trash E&L on their way to make E/N a viable option. I will say it’s almost 80% confirmed that Chris McNally will be in a Christmas movie. One of the Hallmark media channels posted a clip of the 2024 countdown to christmas movies and there’s a very short clip of what looks like CM & LF .. they realized their mistake and took the clip down (HM social media have had a lot blunders this year) 😂. LB fans did take a snap of the moment, I know there’s a picture/small gif of the moment somewhere in the internet. A big LF fan also confirmed that she’s seen BTS pics & it is CM in the movie with her. Some fans did some digging and they figured out the movie could be called Christmas Crashers.

I think the necklace is so sweet and pretty . Miss our show already ;-). Stay well and safe .

Thank you for sharing. I just ordered ❤ What a wonderful organization.

Happy birthday Roxanne, my birthday is the 18th.🎉

Also Roxanne what an amazing Birthday gift , enjoy 🎉❤

Love the necklace and the charity cause I'll have to get one for Sister's Birthday at the end of the month

❤❤love the necklace and what it stands for , thank you sharing Roxanne

Good job ladies 😊 sorry I missed yall live 💖

I’m living listening to this with Chris , thank you. Where can I find these recipes? Lol the cookies etc . I’m a dedicated Chris fan ( not a stalker lol) as well lol . ❤️

I loved the whole season. Mike and Mei have cute moments, but i think their relationship was rushed to marriage because we were supposed to have L & E's wedding in this season, and it didn't happen. It was sad that Allie's biological father rejected her at the prison. As far as Mountie Hargraves visiting Elizabeth in private about Jack, i have several theories about what he's gonna tell her: 1) They just now found his body (far-fetched, but it could happen). 2) His pension ran out, 3) He's being awarded a medal for his services (also far fetched but maybe not), 4) Nathan has more to do with Jack's death than he told her (Why else would Hargraves wanna talk to her in private?) Also, is it just me, or does Hargraves seem like a jerk?

I rated it a 1.5. Wedding best part. Didn’t feel enough went on in the romance area with Elizabeth & Nathan

I only started watching the show for the first time about a year ago and for the first time in eleven season, I have zero interest in season 12. How Lindsey is running this is odd. There are some good moments sure, but there are more confusing and frustrating moments. Like the potato story with Elizabeth…. Seriously? Of all the embarrassing story you could write for Elizabeth, that’s the one you go for? And the scene with Elizabeth and Lucas. I don’t get what they’re trying to do. I don’t get the purpose of that scene. With the way they handled the cliffhanger, I felt like it was more of them baiting us to watch season 12 rather than getting us interested. I hope they improve in season 12. I would hate for this show to be canceled just because of questionable decisions from the current show runner.

The Jack fans don’t seem as angry and bitter . Why would the show runner come on a podcast where people are so angry . I don’t get it .

Love your podcasts, Roxanne! It was so great seeing Kathy again. You guys are so fun to watch! 😊

Would someone let me know how can I catch Ally's rewatch Thursday and Friday recap? Thx

Kathy, So happy to see you! <3

I was late...can't wait to listen to your podcast tonight!!

I was very disappointed with the finale. Mike and May's wedding was a little understated and should have been better. There wasn't enough of Lucas or any of the other characters.. Elizabeth and Nathan were boring as always.and lacked any chemistry and I don"t think it's going to get any better. I love most of the characters so it was disappointing that I didn't get to see them. I didn't think the ending was much of a cliff hanger. I love your podcast Roxanne and I hope you continue next year. It was great seeing Kathy again.

Ladies, you were wonderful! I had a great time watching you, you should continue in season 12.

So lovely to see OG Kathy back with you Roxanne - and others great for their views. I am struggling to find a reason to watch again and do see some promise in some of the non Elizabeth stories. So happy for those who are happy though. Anywhoo thanks for all you do

I rate the entire season a 15. I think the writing,acting was wonderful. I like Mike and Mei, Bill and Rosemary, Allie about her biological dad Dylan, Faith and Lilly, Tom coming back, Lucas had incredible storyline., Elizabeth taking down Higgins, little Jack bonding with Nathan. The love story between Nathan and Elizabeth. I can’t wait until season 12. ♥

Loved the podcast last night and loved seeing Kathy!!!

One thing I find weird in this fandom is the need to like everything about the show. One can watch the show and not like E/N but still enjoy it. Their fans are loving their story as is and they are not requesting it be changed. This is the version of the love story they are telling .. they don’t need to change it to fit what everyone wants. They will never please everyone. It was a horrible season finale that fails at what it’s supposed to do .. to keep people interested for a year. They ruined the cliffhanger by confirming J is not coming back. I knew he wasn’t but the point of a cliffhanger is you create suspense and get people talking during the hiatus. But they stripped that away because they’re so scared of the backlash and losing viewers. My biggest disappointment has been the veteran writers ES & DT. This season probed that they need good show runners to edit/tweak their scripts to come up with something good. Some of the dialogue in E11/12 left alot to be desired. Too many to discuss in a comment .. but at times it only worked because the actors elevated (i.e. CM during hostage situation) and in other cases it just fell super flat because the actors couldn’t save it either (i.e. EK/KM in both love declarations). I am going to give S12 a chance because i think S11 suffered a lot from the writers strike and the absence of a showrunner for big parts of the season.

I love the chemistry. It’s delightful.

I love E and N together! They have a beautful romance. I also love Lucas...just not with E.. He had a wondetful storyline this season. They really shoved E and L down Nathan's throat but they did not do that with Lucas. They were very rrspectful of TL fan's. I can't wait to see where Lucas goes next season. I did not like him before bc he never really had a storyline.

I have always said I LOVE Lucas Bouchards character so much ..and only Chris McNally can deliver like he does. He's an extraordinary actor. And BTW, I loved seeing Kathy again. I've missed her.