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@@Prorifi3D the Edge Browser Text to Speech voice sounds pretty good

This is better than most academic research that I read. Very thorough and logical. 10/10.

I going to sleep

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Get rid of robot voice please

Indeed, I hope you can create your own voiceovers instead of the robot

I love when you click a video and the highlighted comment says the video is valuable

Exactly! This bothered me right off the bat, for example, on AnyCubic printers, and it indeed has a visible effect. I haven't tested it (yet), but I also believe that different tooth profile shape also causes different visoble effects. For example a HTD-3M semi-circle profile belt engages more softly with the pully than a trapezoidal XL, MXL or GT2 belt. I haven't tested it yet this professionally on a 3D printer, but in other applications I hear them less noisy.

Eww eww eww why would they do that?!

@@gabiold i would bet that most 3d printer manufacturers don't actually hire real engineers

​@@schizophrenicgaming365 I recently returned a Creality K1 because of that, not only where tooth sides running on small smooth idlers but the belts also didn't line up and caused a 0.8-1.6% deformation on parts near the edges and sides

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Ha ha ha, of course you would be commenting here :) Hello @MihaiDesigns

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Plus 1 to this

Thank you for your suggestion, we will keep working on the following videos to improve this!

And fast indian accent will clear all subs.

​@@samijoukainen8289😂

Thank you for your advice!

It's cheaper.

@@TheFoodnipple marginally at the cost of quality

This is a very interesting topic to research. Thank you for your topic suggestion!

Always wanted to test a toothed pulley to mitigate ripples. thanks for sharing

@@jordandotan Nero made a comment today suggesting if it was a problem it was more due to belt tension. Which I can agree with in part especially if really tight. But I removed the extra idler entirely on the ender 3, at the back and used a toothed pulley up front. The belt teeth bumping up onto the back tensioner idler was a big source. You could feel it moving the bed. bump-bump-bump

This is indeed an additional problem to consider as well, thank you very much for your advice!

I can’t remember exactly where I saw / read it, but a while ago someone did test that hypothesis and could not find any difference between smooth and teethed idlers…

@@UloPe Well i have an opposite opinion from my first hand experience, i don't have rigorous test results, but at higher tensions it does feel a lot more consistent by hand feel when hand jogging. However it took me a few tries to get toothed idlers from China which were actually machined deeply enough and had bearings good enough to actually work, and the good ones weren't all that cheap. At lower tensions it's probably less relevant but at lower tensions you have more belt compliance and vibration, you're supposed to have more preload. Did you know the belt is undersized and reaches the nominal 2mm/tooth pitch only at pretty high tensions? Unfortunately stretching the belt to spec is also a little borderline and ruins the printer stepper bearings, since you're supposed to not have the shaft just stick out unsupported with that much of a side load... Anyway i'm the sort of person to add more belt tension, add more stepper current, add more PCB cooling, and then juggle the consequences with pleasure. If the printer can't break your arm, is it even a real printer?

@@SianaGearz 😂😂 If I remember I’ll try to look up the source, it’s also of course possible I’m misremembering.

@@UloPe I do think quite a few people concluded that toothed idlers aren't needed or all that useful, from tests or first hand experience; but you'll also find quite a few people who swear by them. I think ultimately that's the thing, if a toothed idler binds, even momentarily, you're in for a rude surprise. If a smooth one binds due to bearing fault, you're not even going to notice it most likely, and you can get much bigger bearings for a given idler size. It's kind of a design meme to just use flanged bearings as iders, these are super robust because they have big balls and spacious cages, so even if one is a little worse off, it's still going to be fine. So for a manufacturer, regardless of possible advantages of a toothed idler, it's just much safer to use smooth ones, less complaints less warranty less service to do, quality be secondary. Also like on something like Prusa earlier generations there's an extruder stepper and gears imprinting on the extrusion bead, there's a high frequency pattern there that will cover up any pattern from the belt chatter. Now that MK4 has an actually amazingly well designed extruder, other sources of disturbance should be paid more attention to.

@@SianaGearz Btw, the tear smileys were directed at the arm breaking joke, not your opinion in general 😅

Sounds like you got yourself a great video idea.

Interesting but, they weren't measuring the tension on the belt with the optical sensor. What benefits would measuring the belt tension on the fly provide?

@@JeanSolagnier my guess is that it would be possible to find when tension changes because of velocity/acceleration fluctuations during movement. And then an algorithm could be used to reduce the fluctuations in tension, leading to a more stable tension for the duration of the print. The hypothesis being that a more stable tension during extrusions will lead to more even extrusions and thus less surface artifacts.

Using a load cell snsor is a different approach to be researched, but obtaining the "force" signal does not directly indicate the change in position, and the resolution and accuracy of this approach is unclear. In our research, we have used an optical linear rail that has 1um resolution.

Thank you for the advice! These are great topics to research on!

Yup! Thank you for your support!

We love the metric system but the Gates uses lb in their official guide. 😉

For ender 3v2 we do not have an official value, but in the tension guide, there is a tension table calculator to help you find the optimum tension on your own.

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Thanks for the suggestion!

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Thanks!

Thanks!

This is a great topic suggestion!

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Thanks!

Thank you for your support!

The situation on the CoreXY printer is not special.

The belts on our test platform are parallel.

@@Prorifi3D I think they meant the belt is not totally parallel, as we can see in 6:21, the tips of the belt are not collinear.

For Voron 2.4 we do not have an official value yet, but in the tension guide there is a tension table calculator and instructions to help you find the optimum tension on your own!

Correction, the Klipper firmware does input shaping and it won't help with belt tension issues beyond fixing the ghosting. Input shaper is about accel/decel

@@saltwaterrook4638 The X1 can detect belt tension with it's short vibration test it does before each print. I found out when it suggested I tighten the xy belts before my print started, after loosening and re-tightening 4 screws for the tensioners I ran the calibration for Resonance Compensation and it cleared the message. So it does use that to check belt tension.

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So true!!!!

Motor resistance isn’t a reliable measurement.

The Bambu Lab X1 Carbon can detect loose belts. It checks before each print by doing some vibrations for each axis. I thought it was just part of the input shaping, but it gave me a message to tighten the xy belts one day just as my print started. I let it continue and the print looked good, so maybe it's pretty sensitive at detecting a small change in tension. After I loosened and re-tightened the 4 screws in back for the xy tensioners, I ran the calibration test and the message went away. Still printing great! I was surprised though because I never heard of any consumer printers that detect loose belts and I never heard Bambu Lab mention it as one of its features. I wonder how many other features it has hidden away. It would make another great selling point in comparison to other printers. They 're definitely on a mission to change the game.👍

It would be difficult to find the _ideal_ tension, but you can test for some edge cases. If the belts are too loose, then the first few steps will not meet any resistance - they will just be picking up the slack. After a few steps, the slack will be taken up and the resistance will increase. That would be a clear indication that the belt is too loose. If the belt is too tight, there will be excessive amounts of resistance due to friction on all the rotating parts. If there is an expected level of resistance known for a particular printer, then you could set an upper bound on how much would be excessive. That could be for more reasons than just the belts being too tight (dirty, in need of lubrication, misaligned, etc.), but it would still be a valuable test. However, you couldn't tell from resistance alone what the positional accuracy is, since the very cause of this error is a difference in the motor's position and the head's position due to linkage in between (the belt). I'm not sure what the resolution is on the measurement of the motor current, but I doubt you could test for the amplitude or frequency of ringing in the belt based on those measurements. Not that it is impossible (a similar technique is used to control brushless motors), but I don't think the usual TMC stepper drivers provide this level of resolution.

You can check one of our videos to find out more about low vibration motors here:kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y8ukaMh-3rLQhac.html

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This is another interesting topic to research, thanks for the suggestion!

Thank you for your suggestion.

There is nothing special about the situation on the CoreXY printer, you can refer to the voron guide for more details:docs.vorondesign.com/tuning/secondary_printer_tuning.html

Thank you for your advice!

You can certainly give it a try.

Belts are the usual method due to the trade-offs involved. These can be extremely precise, as it’s what are used in printers and scanners.

Belts have less backlash.

Threaded rods are awful, but leadscrews can be very accurate. That said, belts still have less backlash. Belts are great for 3D printers and laser cutters where you are applying a relatively low force. Screws work better for higher forces like routers and mills, whose high forces would cause consider change in size of the belt (it's a spring).

The conclusion is that the optimal belt tension depends on belt length and weight of carried load.

Check the chapter 08:43 Best tension verified.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ldNph7erqs6ZqIE.html

Thank you for your suggestion! We will improve this in the following videos.

No, they clearly show that both too tight and too loose induce errors. Tighter belts reduced belt ripple in most cases, but increased motor resonance ripple.