Sharing secrets and giving away stoke www.hownot2.com/sign-up

Good stuff. I'll just say you guys have gotten really good at presenting to camera. It's not easy, especially when you're presenting data that could easily be boring if done poorly. Good job, I always love seeing what you're up to.

Something else that should be noted about the positive side of glue ins, especially in sedimentary rock like sandstone, is that they are less likely to create hollow spots under the surface. When rebolting, and this was very much the case with routes I rebolted around Moab, it is common to find the rock is hollow near the original bolt. Assuming the FA'ist did not place in hollow rock, this is, in my opinion, caused by two things: 1)the hole has empty space which allows for water to seep in and then freeze/thaw to weaken that inner part of the hole, and 2) the compression of the rock is actually creating and expansion joint where the mechanical parts widen inside the hole (literally, if you were going to pry off a section of rock, this is how you would do it!). So just one more reason to go with glue ins, especially when rebolting, whenever you can. GUYS.... also psyched to see that Hilti did not hold any better than Liquid Rock. Does Liquid Rock have a similar temperature range to Hilti?

Hi guys, I've been wondering about decomposed granite for a while now. The Sierra Eastside has any amount of that choss, and sometimes you just can't avoid putting an anchor in a bit of rotteneness. I had one unique "test" where on a new ground up route I encountered a detached 1500 pound shard that I carefully climbed around thinking I'd lever it off later. Below that were two really dismal wedge bolts (3/8" X 2 3/4") that just barely tightened in the rotten rock. When I pitched that block off, I watched it slide right over the bolts. I was sure I'd find two empty holes but no, I found two really battered anchors still in the totally crap rock - the hangers were bent flat, the bolts a bit stretched and bent over. I couldn't imagine that rock just not crumbling away. I removed those bolts, put two new ones in nearby, and called it good! Anyway, I'd be happy to show you any amount of rotten granite (near Ridgecrest) for some scientific testing. BTW, I studied geology in a previous life, I know how to make petrographic thin sections and I have a petrographic microscope. I've some thoughts about granite "patina", and the underlying rotteneness.

Great job! Sounds like you guys learned a lot about pull out methods.

On maxing out the hydraulics: the hydraulic force is based on pressure and area. When the piston is being pushed out of the barrel there is more area engaged, i.e., higher force. I note the hydraulics are used pushing the piston into the barrel so the piston rod is reducing the area over which the pressure is applied, i.e., less force, but mostly more than good enough. So, if the piston force is not enough you will get almost double by flipping the piston and pushing away from the test point, but you will have a more "interesting" rig to setup. 😃 The other thought, on the test bed maybe, is to use the extra force to push a pulley wheel away from the back plate and run the loading line through a 2-to-1 pulley system - essentially the same force as before but twice the distance of that pull. Great work and exellent presentation. Thank you.

That title though

You should try a test using sandpaper to roughen the surface of the metal to allow for a better bond with the glue. I do dolly pull offs of protective coatings and with a well prepared surface I’ve never had a glue failure from metal to substrate. It would be awesome to see if it does indeed increase the strength of bond in overhanging applications.

The strength of a composite is determined by the strength percentage of the epoxy and filler. Mixing rock dust into the epoxy would increase the strength of the resulting composite. How well the composite sticks to the bolt & wall of the hole is determined on how well the surface of each are wetted.

I appreciate the click-bait title. You're becoming quite the master baiter.

I can cut 'em some slack on the 79 killanewtents figure. There's no way we can generate anything near that in real climbing situations. The glue information was very interesting and useful. 'Preciate all the hard work guys!

Excellent material. Thankyou

Your Poured Concrete slabs. What psi of concrete? 3500 4000 5000 6000 12,000 ?

Having done some climbs around Moab, and specifically in Castle Valley, I would have felt a lot better clipping into these glue-ins than the manky little 3/8" bolts that were there.

Super interesting results. Would love to see the performance of various kinds of rock when pulled in tension, particularly the quartz conglomerate here in the Gunks.

I would love to see a video of pulling cams out of wet sandstone vs dry sandstone

Love the result on Liquid Rock 500, as it has been my choice. $$, simple caulking gun, strength

I'd like to see some reviews of the gear you used to get the bolts IN. Drilling into granite is no joke, and you don't want to have oversize or short holes. The bits and methods you use would be cool to see even if you can't endorse Makita or Milwaukee or whoever.

I’m not a metalollolloguristathingamajiggy either… but I’m sure there are enough variables that it would be very difficult to pin down to just one that causes failures. For instance, is the barstock all from the same manufacturer? During the manufacturing of the bolts, are there variations in processes that could cause internal stresses to form differently. Heat treated? CNC made vs human made? Quality control in manufacturing? How they have been stored, handled during shipping and even during the day you installed them. Etc etc etc. NASA is a good place to create tests for this 😂 as their budget would be significantly higher and able to run the appropriate tests 😂. Seriously though guys you do excellent work. Thank you!

So I'm gonna say.... Cleaning the hole is probably a good idea in almost all situations but adding some grit to the glue could increase the strength. It works with mixing concrete.

Love your work! Comenting for the algorithm 🌻

Big bolts big drills deep holes lots of glue and you'll be fine. Was there any small stuff like "how tiny can we go?"

I enjoyed this and got a lot out of it. I bolt using RE500. Remember though that a concrete driveway is not rock.

Seems like you need some good thick metal cable with some beefy connections for stuff like this. No way it would ever break before whatever you hook it to.

Super good enough pull out game.

I'm curious if a sandblasted surface on one of those boots would increase the grip of the epoxy. I'm sure someone in the biz has tested it by now and concluded it isn't worth it or doesn't matter but I would still like to see the numbers.

Maybe put Twist leg bolt on the title of this video. This is super good info. I am gonna start using these.

Wow, super duper good enough!

It's pretty cool that you can pull a plastic rope through what is essentially a steel pin.

Metal deformation at speed creates heat, as work is being put into the metal, work is energy is force times distance is heat. Heat makes metal slightly softer to some degree depending on the metal

The main difference in break strength of this steel has to do with prior unknown of what a dee twenty will do on your saving throw.

I wonder if combining the glue with the rock dust in the "dirty" hole made it bond better, almost like a concrete aggregate or epoxy laminate layers. Like I get that you want a clean bond between your glue and the surfaces, but that's usually if the surfaces are relatively close together. Whereas if you have larger gaps, you want a little bit of "filler" to keep bonding "surfaces" closer.

Jim needs to downrate the MBS on his bolts.

thanks !! interesting !

They should sandblast the twisted part to give the glue some tooth to grab on to.

Can you pull test a bunny ear knot with both loops cut into single legs and tied off to two different anchors? As to decrease the amount of rope a two-bolt bunny ear anchor uses. It will probably suck but might make a worthwhile test

I wonder if an appropriate primer on the bolts would increase glue strength?

@3.55 That 4 inches looked 6 inches to me too.

This one will break your back before it breaks, and this one, and this one, and that one, and that one too...

Does sandblasting the bolt increase the adherence of the epoxy? Might affect the corrosion resistance, so you would only want to do the bottom where the epoxy will seal it

Have you tried sanding a bolt to get better adhesion

Recently I climbed in Alaska and saw two of those about 8 inch apart but directly above one another never experienced these so I decided not to try my luck ( Alaska rock is crumbly….) is this a normal way to see these? What about anchors on that stay going vertical?

Hey have you guys tried gluing mechanical bolts yet? I know it’s probably an outlandish idea but, what happens? Maybe it would make it stronger in certain rocks? 🤷🏻‍♂️

They should reverse the twist like halfway down the shaft

If they changed the twist radius as they twisted it, it couldn't rotate out without breaking the cement.

You gotta put a glue-in in glue and give it away just for the memes

who cares about bolts. Bobby hair is amazing!

Wait Ryan, is wet sandstone stronger?

I agree that welds have no place in climbing equipment

Is there a way to get those twisted glue ins in the US?

10:20 ish...so is not cleaning the hole better???

Interesting

I would not bother about speed of pulling in climbing affecting anything from rock to metal MBS. The effect is real though but requires a speed of close to the speed of sound in said material and that is simply unattainable even in a freefall.

Would it be beneficial to have a welder attach like a nut or something circular to the hole end of the twisted shanks? That would give the epoxy/glue an additional place to grab onto and you would then basically be pulling against the entire slug of epoxy. Would be interesting to see if it helped.

At this point are you testing bolts or rocks?

#pulloutking 🤴

👍

come on dont do my mom like that.

I never did see the video that discloses what the buttplug on the gear wall is for. Please holler,been curious for years.😂

You should test glue In bolts pulled in shear at a 90 degree angle

In older videos you were consistently unkind to products that didn't hit their MBS with your non-standard breaking methods, but in this video you certainly changed your tune. Hopefully future videos get a similar treatment.

Hey brother, last minute invite, we are dropping ellisons next weekend, we had a couple people bail out, would you like to join us.? If so hit us up,

*that's what she said.

Has anyone made anchors from stainless wire rope? I'd like to see a twisted 6mm wire rope anchor (swaged at tip and just below the eye to maintain the shape and twist). 6mm stainless wire rope has approx 30kN MBS (so ~60kN for a twisted pair) and would possibly have better surface cohesion with the glue than a twisted solid bar. It would also conform to where the load was, and possibly spread the strain across multiple bend radii (this is one of the advantages of wire rope, and why it's used in cable cars etc). I only have a hydraulic anchor tester at my disposal so I can't generate anywhere near the loads required to break this stuff. Does anyone want to make some of these? I figure it would be even easier to fabricate than the bolts tested in this video. Just get some 6mm stainless wire rope, twist it relatively tightly with an eye in one end, and then compression swage it at the tip and just below the eye. The swages may be the problem as they would increase the nominal hole diameter, but holes are usually over-drilled by a couple of millimeters, and these swages are purely to hold the shape until the anchor is placed. It doesn't need to be a swage at all. It could be a twist of wire rope dipped in glue to hold it's shape. EDIT: This is inspired by the fact that we use wire rope anchors (big ones) when doing geo-stabilisation jobs to hold up rock fall fences etc. It's not an original idea, but I don't know if it's been experimented with in the climbing world.

First

Um...