I have a set of PME SB2.2 heads , I've given up trying to explain the Mirror ports to the Ford boys !

Im a chevy guy , but saying that , ford Clevland Canted vlavle heads were light years ahead of anything that chevy had at the time !

Eric you are correct, they copied a Pontiac Iron duke and Oldsmobile head. The next gen. NASCAR head was the RO7 and RO X head that is a copy of the Cleveland head, as is the Toyota head also.

the Fords were allowed because they were closely based on actual production heads that were homogolated according to Nascar rules and sold on production vehicles to the public, so it was fair even though GM was at a dis -advantage. Ford Cleveland heads are far superior to any stock production small block head by GM or Mopar. those SB2 heads were never offered on a production vehicle so im not sure who's palms got greased at NASCAR to allow that head to be legal.

Everytime I see a Cleveland head all I can think is that’s a big block Chevy head

I love sb2.2 engines , the rpm they were turning in the later years was music .

This head is amazing! This should be available from AFR and matching cams and intakes from everyone.

I remember that article and this head like it was yesterday!! Thanks as always Eric, appreciate you man! Kevin

Smokey and the GM girus were doing the canted rotated heads in the early 60s , the mk2 that was dqed for nascar, the ford guys will jump up and down and cuss about it, but its true. I think the canted rotated chamber was Smokey's baby

Nice video and breakdown......I remember ALL the talk back in the day on them heads.

Ford guys resenting GM may come from the fact that the Cleveland was penalised or even outlawed in so many classes of racing, making the Ford guys eternally salty about the politics of racing bodies and the obvious bias against their brand. I'm a Ford guy and I recognise the shortcomings of the Cleveland, and 429/460, as well as the fact that Ford took a lot of ideas from the BBC (released 4 years earlier) for their design. The biggest shortcoming in my opinion is the 4 head bolts per cylinder design, placing one of the bolt bosses right where the port should ideally go (ie: sending the flow to the middle of the cylinder). Instead, the port curves the other way, having to then make another turn at the valve to get into the cylinder. I believe that this is where the shrouding issue comes about. BBCs dont have this bolt issue (having a different head bolt layout), but they're shackled with another design flaw in that they insisted on having siamesed ports on a head with equal spaced valve layout (like Fords), so looking at one head, you have 2 ports that curve the right way, and 2 the wrong way. The Cleveland I believe has all 4 going the wrong way. (Due to said port routing ussues). In the end, everyone "copies" everyone at some stage. The LS does indeed look quite Ford-like. Ford pretty much reverse-engineered the Buick 3800 V6 in the 80s. One could argue that the BBC was heavily inspired by the Chrylser Poly head from the 50s.

In '54 when Chevy designed the 265 small block . They did the pairs of intake ports together for one reason . It makes for a smaller intake manifold , with obviously less iron . The paired up exhaust was just collateral damage .

Siamesed exhaust valves/ports give it away. Unfortunately, too much heat in that area. Fixed it with the LS.

The Ford C3 "Yates" head of the day was not a canted valve head. Larry Wallace/Yates took the cant out of thevalves for better mid lift flow, along with a smaller chamber to allow for higher compression without a domed piston.

If you want to know the Ford , Yates , Roush heads story . Dragboss garage has an interview with the guy that all the major Ford guys went to for headwork . Can't think of his name but the vid was 3 to 4 months back .

I would love to see the kind of power that comes off of 406 with them heads on it

Very interesting. Great video.

I think GM Siamesed exhaust ports to maintain the stock small block head bolt pattern. That might be how GM back door the SB2 into NASCAR calling a stock block. I was working a regional SCCA race at Sears Point in the mid 80's and two SCCA Trans Am style cars where getting a lot of attention from GM factory people. I knew they were GM factory people cuzz 2 of them talk to me about the car I was working on and gave me a "We Build Excitement" T-shirt, I still have the shirt. They were covering the motor with a blanket, like they were operating on a kidney when the hood was off. They also had enough people around the motor area when the hood was off, it looked like in a operating room. Then one of cars tore the kevlar off the front end and the car ended up in impound lot. Before they got motor covered enough people got a glance at the motor, some said it was big block and the people more in the know said it's the new small block chevy 2 and that people who thought it was BB didn't get good enough look.

blue oval guys always take credit for every other manufacturers design except for the only one that was 'borrowed'; looking at you, northstar😁

Those big exhaust ports are nice for a Vortech, Procharger, aka blower. I have a set of stamped numbers matching Hendrick sb2.2 heads, a matching Hendrick intake, Jesel 1.7 rockers, and they're dated 03-06. I bought the whole set up here in NC for $2500.00 about 5 years ago. I have used them. They're just sitting on the self. I thought about running on this brodix block with a V30-128 to see how they do.

Its crazy how the different angles of the valves effect flow, thats the advantage the LS has on SBC, other than that i believe both engine are very close in power to each other,it would be cool if profiler ever sent you some heads to actually really compare a LS motor to a SBC motor with the same valve angle

Yup I'd be interested in seeing those tested as well bet they rip! Thanks Eric!

Eric, I'm looking for an SB 2 engine to buy. Please do a more detailed video that would help me determine what ports and parts I should use in the heads. Thank you! Tom

That's the head they designed to try to compete with with the old Cleveland head and still couldn't beat it ,lets hear it chebby boys !😢

I love all fast engines and all fast cars. I say this to say; Ford guys are strange af. Always saying other manufacturers copied Ford and always bashing other brands randomly for no reason. Don’t come at me because I like them all 👍

I have a set of SB2s, bought from David Vizard, and ported by David Vizard, some day I hope to use them. Going to be spendy.

I`ve got a set of those and a set C3`s I bought them in ralieh N.C.My flow Numbers are with in +or-5 of yours, The C3`s run - 15 to 18 below the SB2.2`s in the low to mid lift but catch up by 700 lift. The guys I got them from run top sportsman in drar racing. I was going to build a couple motors for open dirt late models but Biden got elected and my stockmarket income dried up.Plus these Florida tracks went to stinkin crate motors

Great video

Ford was allowed to run the canted valve head because they designed and used themon factory small block cleveland's where the chevy never had a small block canted valve head from the factory. The 4 BBL Ford 351 cleveland produced more HP per cubic inch than ANY other American factory small block all else being the same.

FYI the SB2.2 has 11* valve angle with 4* cant.... Ford did away with the cant in the intake valves after 1988 with the 6049-C3 heads which were standardized at 7.5* valve angle with 0* cant... however Ford brought cant back in their design with the D3 head... and did away with it again in the SC1. Prior to the C3, the Ford SVO A3, B3 and C302 NASCAR legal casting used Cleveland valve train architecture with revised runner locations.

this is some cool stuff right here

I have a Pro power 430 sb 2 !! The thing is absolutely incredible to race !

They reason Chevy kept the old exhaust port layout is because nascar said they wanted the headers to look like small block Chevy headers lol. If I’m not mistaken the first set they presented to them were symmetrical. As I’m typing this I may have learned that from this channel . Not sure .

C3 and SB2.2 will make you question the flow bench. SB2.2 will out flow the C3 everytime not even close but they made the same hp

Erick you are showing the angles backwards for the valve to move away from the cylinder walls

I wonder how these heads would perform with boost.

They burn all the fuel so well ,the exhaust temps will be under 1000° and will only need about 28° timing, usually

Who made that head specifically? Or are they all the same?

I have some early c3 heads with 2.1 valve and valve seats are smashed and still flow the same was there.

My dream street car engine!!!

I see steam holes drilled. Often debated if they are needed. If NASCAR engine builders want them what does that say?

The fastest n/a sbc door car I've ever seen at the drag strip had 2.2s on it . I don't know the particulars about the motor but it was running 7.30s on a track that wasn't all that great .

Nice head have you thought about porting one of these

Ford was smart enuf not to put their exhaust valves next to one another

dont care for the head bolt set up im willing to bet this would make nice power with a 2:18 1:81 . reminds me of the first nhra mini truck set up my uncle ran .

THAT'S A CYLINDER!!!! OH MY!

I've only gotten interested in porting in the last year so I've still got a lot to see but 304 @ .400" is nuts! I would expect nothing less from NASCAR just never seen it.

There's one for sale here locally but it's out of my range.

Did I see that right 2.43 average cross section at top of flow sheet .

Nascare SB2 304.4cfm@.400", 348.9@.500 and 375.4@.600", all bananas numbers. The 235.1@.300" is achieved on some other "good" 2 valve heads on small blocks it's good, but not huge.

Id like to see a BBC head with this valve layout

Will that head fit a standard sbc block or is that a special block as well?

I have a set of HENDRICK 279cc SB2.2.. 2.180" In valve.. mine flow 399 at .800" ..

Donth the newest have valves like CBB??( SB 2.2 ) heard the have 850HP Want you Build even thes Engine with Turbos 2000hp esy i hope tou build!!!

A friend had a set ,,this is what they flowed

Now flow a D3 head of the same year and see your shit box Chevy still fall short

The C3 was out first like you said why can’t Chevy use those because Ford’s already using the Cleveland style canted valve. The big differences the Chevy is Siamese exhaust. The Ford is symmetrical. At the end of the day, the combustion chamber and everything else is the Robet Yates design. This is why four guys always say this stuff because it’s true. GM now uses symmetrical stuff LS lt all symmetrical cylinder Heads on production engines.Later on in the late 90s NASCAR standardized, all the ports to be of the Robert Yates design. in the early to mid 90s general motors was making symmetrical port aftermarket aluminum heads for the pro stock truck class and they’re still our guys nostalgia racing. They use those.

I know what I *think* the answer is based on theory, but how does that head bolt hole in the port affect the flow, mixture, etc?

SB2.2 was allowed for Parity with the C3-D3

What few people know is GM really didn't design the Sb2 heads, and Ford didn't design the C3 or the D3. One of the best kept secrets in the NASCAR ,World was Don Losito. He was working on the Sb2, the D3 ford, and even Dodge heads, when they were involved. Only about 3 or 4 people really understand what makes a good head, and how to get NASCAR approval. That is why alot of this stuff looks somewhat the same, because the same fertile minds, designed all of it. So it really is pointless to argue, who had a better design because the same people had the knowledge and did the work. Just matters who was paying the bills $$$$$ !

What's the chamber volume?

My sb2.2 heads out flow those by a mile

I thought the yates c3 head was not canted till the D3 head? I know my freind has two sets of C3 that are not canted.

Nice head have SB.2 .Wathe a The grate head wathe dou thes flow??? Wath dou you like The Brodix 11X. CSB..Wanth build 443-454 cui. Wathe can thes Brodix 11X Flow max.Rev limit 7.500..rpm..

In 1967 the Camaro Z/28 was released with the sbc dz302 and dominated trans am racing in 68 ford gave a gopher boy a wad of cash and sent him to the chevy dealership to buy a sbc 302 crare engine then ford disassembled it took what they learned and in 68 sbf 302 is released their most successful engine copied from Chevrolet

Nothing is new Oldsmobile 1964 newer had this valve configuration

It mustve been a big machining expense to manufacture

Every time i hear a ford guy spewing Chevy just copied ford all I really hear is someone coping with the fact that they can't afford good parts. Ford makes great heads they cost money their own engineers designed them. Same with Chevrolet. their own engineers designed them. This joe copied fred stuff is b/s and it needs to go away.

The reason this head was originally banned in NASCAR was because it didn't maintain the stock architecture. Back then NASCAR actually still had a few rules requiring stock type components. Ford got to run canted valves because they had production small blocks with canted valves. I suspect that's why they didn't get rid of the siamesed exhaust ports with these heads. NASCAR wasn't willing to let them venture that far from stock. When Toyota came in all bets were off on engines and that gave us the RO7 and FR9 engines after Toyota kicked their butts for a few years.

Exhaust ports look like LS.

When will someone cast an affordable symmetrical intake AND exhaust port SBC head !?!? Basically an LS head that fits a SBC at an LS head price. If it can be successfully done with LS heads offshore why won't anyone make an affordable 11°-15° symmetrical SBC head ??

Did ford copy gm by putting the cam back in the block for the Godzilla?

Thats a restrictor plate head

Too bad they still had those dumb siameased exhaust ports.....

Looks like a Ford head to me but chevy guys will never admit it.....they just put there own spin on it. Ford set the stage for heads like this with the Cleveland. Was there room for improvement yes, like anything but, Ford started this but as usual the chevy guys and the aftermarket industry takes credit for it....could you imagine if Ford came out with or, had a siamese port head that, somehow worked better what the chevy guys would say????

"nascar outlawed the head"... nothing new, nascar has a long history of outlawing anything with a decided advantage over the competition. hemi's, wing cars, etc, etc, etc. instead of letting the competition work it out, they just outlaw anything that makes the slower cars not competetive.

This is some cool stuff no matter who made them … Nascar history and all . But its funny how all the ford purists will come on these info video’s and trash CHEVROLET as some kind of copy cat manufacturer in every way possible.. ! These ford cry babies must be drag racers because i haven’t read where Champions LIKE DALE EARNHARDT, JEFF GORDON OR JIMMIE JOHNSON HAVE DID MUCH COMPLAINING WITH ALL THOSE WINS AND RACKING UP CHAMPIONSHIPS USING A CHEVROLET POWER-PLANT…! 🏁🏁🇺🇸

They copied off of John Deere!!💪🏻🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️🏴‍☠️

Funny reading all the comments and no one states the real fact that ford copied dodge! Yes it's true and very factual! The poly 318 was out first and copied by ford

Chevy realized how dated the head was an incorporated some Ford design concepts.

Bad to the bone!

C3 is not a canted valve head

This head has a lot of problems !!!! Head bolt in the intake port area ??? What were they thinking ! And the worst part is the two exhaust valves side by side creating tremendous heat and gasket failures , but now Chevy has !!!! Copied ford by doing separate intake and separate exhausts, now a days you can’t tell what is what any more

Oldsmoble stuff.........

Most ford guys are weird pointing fingers barking Ford has invented the wheel and there's no better inventor other than Ford and any thing that was made other than ford copied ford !! Ford ford ford dud its all fun and games and smiles it really is stop being so up tight u are not the first person and wont wont be the last so just enjoy your time and be happy thats the most important thing in life making comments like Ford is the best everybody's thinking this dude's a dickhead bet his wife is happy Not lol !! This is a joke please take it as 1 and get a laugh out of it hope everyone has a great day and smile most of all life is good ! The internet comments are better 😊😂😂😂!!

These WERE copied from the 335 series. You would have to change cams and firing order among other things if not for Making siamese ports and chambers does not hide the fact that these have canted valves almost identical to a 335 ford. The chambers and runners are ALL ford and the wedge chevy WAS junk and won’t compare to a 335 head. You are delusional!

Nothing is new Oldsmobile 1964 newer had this valve configuration