Not for them.

I mean... Kind of, at least If you're like my first DM... But you need to start the game weirdly overpowered because you had a "standard" array of 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, become a lesser lord of baldur's gate, give some opressed groups a pint of hope and you might kill a Yuan-ti Anathema. It also could turn you into a god, at least that's how our party's Cleric and Ranger became demigods...

My party met another player's god and immediately planned on killing him.

I mean to be honest who doesn't want a crack at God's that on a whim they could eradicate you from existence if anything I'm surprised there hasn't been any deals/alliances with Titans and Aboleths with humans in a joint effort to kill em all. They always cause more harm then good. At least in my experience in watching lore videos xD lol

@@lukepatterson8676 how have they caused more harm then good? Honestly they've helped more often then not in these lore videos. I mean yeah some Death Gods create Mummy Lords, but those are explicitly Evil Deities and their have been a few that have been horrible, but those are explicitly Evil gods like Tiamat or Panzurial. They explicitly exist to cause harm while the Good Gods exist to oppose them, aid thier worshippers, and whatever other purpose pertains to them in their portfolio.

Dragonlance Adventures (1st edition book) would disprove that statement as well. Paladine has 999 hit points and can deal anywhere from 1d10 to 1d10x100 per attack (his choice). He has 5 attacks per round.

Glad someone else mentioned Deities and Demigods.

Yep. I believe the strongest had 200 hit points.

Was about to comment this

What he means really is, "Deities in FORGOTTEN REALMS have never been given stats." Then the statement would b true...I think.

Finally, we get an explanation on how these mysterious rocks slay adventurers.

i mean i know this is a joke but im pretty sher that thay wuld have to be someware that that culd aculy happen so in other words that wuld work in a cave or somthing but a intermediate god culd not do that to you if you where les say standing a a feild

@Alistair Stormbreaker The fabric of magic inside dnd can be exploited at least lore wise. Also just because there are weapons to kill a god, doesn't mean you will actually be able to pull it off.

@Alistair Stormbreaker they technically do have stats. And those are probably not even that crazy they're probably around another creatures of their CR. The thing is no god is really limited by them. God's CR probably ranges around slightly lower than 30 (as some are weaker than the tarrasque) to 50 (as the titan is stronger than all of them). That doesn't mean they're as strong as their CR as their abilities far surpass their own CR. They cannot really be killed easy. Can have multiple bodies. Almost no limitations on spellcasting. Matter manipulation, etc... Mental abilities that recreate omniscience. The capability of knowing and modifying mortal life's to a certain extent. That without taking into account the abilities on their domain. Having a higher CR than a god doesn't mean you're really more powerful than them... Not at all... It just means you're more capable on a fight. And even there there's a lot of things a god can do.

Kratos waits very eagerly for the next episode xD

@@Kirkmaximus Well, then Kratos is very late to the news as that episode was the previous video.

@@rosure7 The problem is that flavor text and actual printed stats often missmatch. Despite all the bluster in Cronos lore from that dragon article, he actually stood no chance to take down those deities with his printed stats vs. theirs. Fighting athousand passes against both Hextor and Heironeous? He would not stand a chance against either one of them, lest alone both. And it wouldn't take a thousand blows either.

Was just about to comment about this. Before the avatar stats there are stats for gods in that book.

Yup, I have the book. Was gonna comment that. Still a great video though! Deities and Demigods is a dry read anyway, so having you explain it was very helpful.

Ah noticed this too late, you can ignore my comments.

Great video though. Love your content.

Doesn't Tiamat have a statblock in 5E Tyranny of Dragons: The Rise of Tiamat? She's a lesser deity, but a deity nonetheless.

Probs to you. I'm about to redcon mine, because this is just awesome

I had to retcon my settings after a few of these videos

@@Arkino1498 Remember that if you have a custom setting, you can do whatever you want! All of this stuff is only guaranteed to hold if you are trying to stick to Forgotten Realms canon specifically. For example, Ao's power as overgod canonically only covers the deities inhabiting Abeir-Toril.

Good luck

@@AaronRotenberg Also this video seems to be heavily influenced by 2nd edition, and there's Deities and Demigods from 3.5 if anyone wants some more ideas on how they can run god-heavy campaigns.

Myy that's genial. Bacchus must be the most powerful God without have to engage in a very complex scheme.

Eh, i'd go further with a God of Desire. That encompass next to all things in the Universe.

Goddess of Love.

@@SuperAmaton Ah, Slannesh. That's one way to do it, yes.

Well its a bit of a tradeoff because not all ceremonies are equal, like he said in a prior video this is why most evil deities are even able to still function. Despite having a small number of followers their 'ceremonies' wind up producing more divine energy.

But that was the fun part killing a God and it added so much roleplay like how you killed someone’s God and now you are giving rise to a new Pantheon a stronger Pantheon

Counterpoint: Who cares if they can be hunted and killed as long as it's really really really hard to do?

@@arnox4554 I do agree with you there. Though, I think it should be more interesting and involved than "hit it a bunch". The problem with them having normal stats and no special caveats is that it can allow people to min/max super hard and kill a god in some relatively trivial/non-epic manner. Now, those weird combos that can let you do that are usually pretty silly in the first place and should be directly prevented when possible, because they really don't fit the game as intended, just as written. However, anytime you include actual stats and no special caveats/requirements.. you're opening yourself up to a god being killed be some kind of min/maxing.. when it should always be far less mundane imo.

@@Elluem "should be directly prevented when possible, because they really don't fit the game as intended, just as written. " That's called the DM saying "Nope.".

/\ I feel like avatars are the answer to PCs getting a cheap cheesy win on a deity..If it goes down too easily you just say " oh it was an avatar" and adjust the gods tactics and give it some allies the next time to prevent the same trick twice. Which isn't metagaming since the deity would experience everything the avatar did and learn from it

And, despite being killed several times, she hasn't actually yet been usurped. Yeah, she's not going anywhere anytime soon

I mean probably, but she still got to perform a single action before he took control since she still had the ability to kill herself.

My DM actually found a write up for the spell that was done. It effectively removes the saving throw by making the casting DC astronomically high. There are rules for making epic spells in dnd, and rules on how hard the roll is to make the spell based on what you want to do. Given Karsus was level 42, and spent over ten years working on the spell and gather components for it, it's not easy to make that spell work.

@Calvin Schuster I'm pretty sure karsus was a mortal when he cast karsus's avatar. Unless the spell gave him a temp Greater god status? Though I could be mixing somethign up here

@Calvin Schuster yes because it effects self also intermetide deities can do so too

They actually don't succeed automatically, they just got the best they can have according their stats.

Lol I'd just imagine it as increasingly bad situations happen to the party, enemies always target the guy first, heck maybe the targeted player even starts getting disadvantage on all his rolls if it goes on long enough.

They create a ton in 6 seconds then take a six second break before doing it again, maybe there is some sort of somatic component

becoming a planet is its own thing. theyre not creating the matter of the planet, they are becoming it. They need to rest when they use their energy (life essence?) to create matter out of nothing. this makes sense. it seems tiring. but its still crazy.. think about how big a ton is, they just need to take a deep breath and they can do it again...

pvic they have to become the planet somehow. They are either making the matter out of nothing or are changing the energy that makes them into an entire planet, both of which would definitely be harder than making a ton of anything.

@@Aplesedjr I thought of it like polymorph or beast shape (is that what its called). Imagine a gnome wizard polymorphs to a stone giant. wheres the extra mass for the giant's form coming from? Or if a druid shifts into a form of a giant eagle, same thing In the other way, what if someone polymorphs into a snail? where does all that mass go? or if a druid shifts into a rodent?

Logan Sanders Actually changing form takes way less energy than creating mass. Just think about it, a ton of matter is like 200 nukes of energy.

... and he says that in every sentence

Its clear English was not his first language bit he is fluent. Its part of his charm lol

Just weird that it is just this specific word

@@MrBaumbach88 And reproduction

He can't pronounce anything right 🤣🤣🤣

Essentially, yes. Some of the core 5e rulebooks imply, vaguely at least, that after hitting lvl 20 one can actually become a demigod.

They cannot fumble themselves to death. Put any adventurer up against 10,000 tadpoles. The PC will fumble themselves to death. The demigod will not.

@@johnclover2156 level doesnt have anything to do with dieityship. At 1st level PCs could in theory become Gods. It's a separate addition to the core rules. And if you want to talk about them rivaling a demigod in power per deities and demigods, you are talking lvl 3o. For 5th edition it feels like they removed the deities from playability.

In 3d edition Demigod status just give you Divine Rank 0 ageless status and some immunities and ability to get higher in rank if you amass followers or defeat other deity you can't even have Avatar. All the real powers come at Divine Rank 1+. And highest ranked Deity in each pantheon got Divine Rank 20. There is few gods above gods - prime example is Ao which have no stats at all.

@@zachzorn9930 Dnd 5e becoming a diety Requirements: Step 1: Raw power At least lvl 25 At least 1 attribute of 21 or higher and 1 attribute of 19 or higher Step 2: combination of at least 2 -The performance of special ceremony -Spell of alaborate complexity with great personal danger -The use of an artifact -Sponsorshipof a diety Often by rituals and use of artifacts ascension is denied and mortal becomes a lich,some other form of undead creature or being destroyed If ascension is denied by sponsorship of a diety then mortal is given a second chance to overcome whatever the reason for rejection was or or dies and becomes a powerful servant of sponsored diety

There is also D&D 3rd Edition - Forgotten Realms - Faiths and Pantheons.

no they are their stats their avatars have tgeir stats righ after the deity no deity has more than 20 in a class unless you hombrew buffs

I do not believe those are intended as the avatars. I was also going to comment on this.

And in 2nd AD&D : Faiths & Avatars . Forgotten Realms - Powers and Pantheons

Those were avatars typically. However the first edition had everything and was filled in with various dragon magazine articles.

Also Amonkhet and Hour of Devistation sets. MTG is basically the same universe. there are several "cross-over" MTG and DnD, the latest example being Ravnica

@@legendaryoutcast4440 technically the canon explanation is that the MTG universe(multiverse really) exists in a separate crystal sphere than the DnD one. This is pretty much the explanation for every official released source that contains a different set of planar universe. This also means technically any character that can figure out how to leave and breach a different crystal sphere could technically travel between say Ravnica and Eberron.

Yeah, I see ashiok and I ask myself what he/she/it is doing here, then elspeth in stained glass window… ?

We are also about to get the 15 theros gods in 5e😁😁😁

@@themadichib0d I can't help but wonder what the crossover explanation for the Planar Bridge and the Blind Eternities are... Also tbh, the Blind Eternities are far more terrifying than D&D outer space.

Viva revolution

If i were a deity I'd make my name "Eldritch Blast" or "Fireball"

As a DM i would say no, the deity "Bane" would not be able to use his vision/senses if some cleric of "Mystra" asked his god to give him the power to harm his foe i.e. the spell bane. To use the common "Name" of a deity is to know and think of that god, therefore you draw it's attention.

That isnt entirely wrong XD

But he is wrong this time thought

Lore keeper that couldn't read lore this time?

brodeeo gonna be honest. I didn’t even know he got it wrong until I read the comments after I made this comment. I play pathfinder so I’m unfamiliar with dnd lore but I watch the videos to compare and to get inspiration and stuff for my campaign

@@haylongwang3002 Have proofs within your comment before to post them little Green Wangle 😠😤

That's how the old Basic set series worked. Start on the Basic Set and move up through to Immortals.

And next thing ya know Ao intervenes and you lose horribly

It's not there; it's just a pigment of your colorful imagination.

Arek Petrosian “pigment”

D&D immortals was a thing, a supplement / rule set that I remember as existing in unison with the early basic and expert rule sets.

It was so much fun going through that book back in the day and pitting the gods against each other.

Ya shame he doesnt mention it

hell go back to first edition, visit them on their home plane, and if you are good enough you too can kill loth or any of the other gods... though doing so was even then meant to be beyond a epic quest. look to krynn we find epic tales of attempts to usurp the gods that where foiled, not by the raw power of the gods themselves, but my the interference of mortal men (with some assistance from the other gods despite in some cases said gods not being on the best of terms with each other. I find myself envisioning the conversation between paladin (bahamet) and tahiskis (tiamat) after the second war of the lance "I just more or less saved your bacon... shall we resume our war next tuesday then?")

@@mattlewandowski73 Sounds like a divorced couple that secretly harbor feelings but don't want to try again because fucking hell the last time didn't work out...

@@toshomni9478 I love how in the dnd pantheon there is a god of common sense

I keep reading comments saying that those stats are for their avatars and not the actual gods themselves. Which stats are they for?

@@cflotronsong in 3rd Ed the stats are for the dieties themselves and the only difference between a diety and its avatar is half the divine rank. Also not all dieties have enough divine ranks for an avatar and a good number of monsters in the epic level handbook could seriously hurt or kill lesser dieties or lower.

How did that happen?

@@SuperAmaton Well, it started as a quest to stop a Yuan-ti sorceress who was seeking to unite her people by becoming a god, as they wouldn't unite under anything less (a prophecy foretold her method of ascending to godhood could irreparably damage magic itself). But then they discovered the Yuan-ti are merely pawns in a larger divine game between my homebrew god Chaos (a greater diety of freedom, hope, death, and destruction imprisoned in Carceri) and some unknown, but stronger being. They just discovered that being is Asmodeus. The player who married a lesser god ended up hitting it off with him. The player is a changeling wizard who was found half-dead in a river and ever since has lived multiple lives under many masks, one of which had a wife who recently died. The lesser god is a brother to Chaos whose portfolio includes magic, knowledge, the night, and weather. He was formerly a mortal who lived a rather lonely life studying in his tower, eventually stumbling across the secret to godhood. When he became a god, he was given the job of guarding divine secrets, which only increased his isolation. So they ended up bonding, quickly forming a relationship, and now they're getting married in a month's time. The reason the changeling wizard player wants to become a god is kind of a long one, but to sum it up, she thinks the gods are too disconnected from mortal suffering and wants to change that by becoming a god who understands and has lived through that suffering. Sorry for the long reply, but the story's a bit complicated. :P

@@tabithaalphess2115 Funny, i am currently playing a Shadow-Sorcerer Changeling in my Campain :) But back to your Story: Is the Chaos in your story all good? I am asking because any "Aspect" taken to it's extreme can be pretty bad. Absolute Law can easily be a life without any choice. But Absolute Chaos can just as easily be a life, where no choice matters. For the Marriage: I assume it's gonna be a Party? Beware Party-Crashers, maybe invite a Greater Deity as a honorary Guest for security? And for you Wizard: Daaaangerous. Bringing Mortal Suffering into the Divine "Realm"? I am rather certain a few Gods will dismiss her as dillusional or straight up try to kill her. Even worse? Well if she becomes a Deity, becoming one with this goal could maybe lead to her becoming the God(dess) of (mortal) Suffering. A VERY ugly thought.

@@SuperAmaton Nice! If you put a few levels in rogue, that could be really interesting. No, Chaos is chaotic neutral. He's characterized as a highly personal, ancient greater deity who has existed since the beginnings of the multiverse. He has a love for mortals and often takes the downtrodden for warlocks. However, he's also characterized as wildfire, destroying the old to make way for thee new. As a result, he spent much of his time "purging corruption" (slavery in any form). This came in the form of mass death, the fall of civilizations, and the death of numerous gods slain by his own hand. He carried out these deeds with his sister - a greater deity known as Desire (goddess of emotions and passion) - and was kept in check by his brother, Fate, greater god of law and order. At some point, however, Chaos was imprisoned and bound in Carceri for an unknown crime, and he's been trying to escape ever since. That's the plot my players have gotten tied up in Yeah, there's going to be a party. In fact, it will take place at Desire's palace (the changeling wizard befriended her). Fate, Desire, Chaos, and the god the wizard is marrying are all part of the same Pantheon, and they refer to one another as family. So a number of gods will be present for the wedding (3 greater deities, 3 intermediate, and 4 lesser). Ooooooh yeah, it's something the changeling wizard hasn't considered. Chaos has been heavily involved in the party's journey (one of them is even a warlock to Chaos), and the wizard in particular has had many conversations with him. It's even convinced her that he should be free (albeit with conditions). Chaos is often thought of as a radical by many of the gods, but he's also incredibly persuasive (even convinced the paladin in the party - who was previously opposed to Chaos - that he wasn't so bad). The changeling wizard hopes to become a god of healing and make the gos more aware of mortal suffering, but the process of becoming divine could shift that

The gods are always controlling them. They aren't things that they create as an empty vessel to control, they are extension of them. The difference would be like a remote control toy and one of your limbs. The Avatar is more like a limb

You’re confusing avatars with divine aspects, which are individual creatures with personalities similar to a god, but autonomous and much, much weaker than even the weakest avatar. Divine aspects are usually created when a deity urgently needs to accomplish something, but can’t spare an avatar. Aspects also typically only exist for several days or months before vanishing.

@@SuperCuriousFox I'm relatively certain I'm right. Especially since I've never heard of a Divine Aspect. Every time I've heard it referenced, everyone refers to Avatars with a similar metaphor to that. Though maybe a Divine Aspect is just a more powerful Avatar that uses a higher percentage of the God's power. If I reuse the metaphor, an Avatar would be a God's finger or hand while the Divine Aspect would be a Hand or the Arm respectively. Of course it's relative, the Full Arm of one god could equate to just the thumb of another.

@@Master_E444 why can't you both be right? Avatars are like a limb, whereas divine aspects are like prosthetic limbs. You are always in control of your limb, but not a prosthetic device. However, when you are in control of it, it's effectively another limb. I know I said limb way too much.

@@A._Person that's a good point. That could be a good analogy, but I don't think it's 100% accurate but I'm just gonna agree for now.

Pretty sure that was for their Avatars. If deities had stats, that would imply that players could kill them. Which they can't, barring some VERY specific circumstances involving rituals or special weapons.

@@H240909 The players could kill them, there were explicit rules about how to kill a God, which were similar to how you destroy an artifact. If you didn't fulfill the requirements, they would simply discorporate and reform after a few months when they were bloodied.

@@viserproductions1 Yes, that's what I said but that's from a narrative perspective. If a creature or being has a stat block, it implies that your mortal player characters can kill them in straight up combat. No mortal character can initiate combat with a god and win. There's always some plot macguffin involved like a ritual or an artifact. Unless the DM just doesn't care. Also, the god in question would dead by god standards. They wouldn't actually be dead. Its more of a cosmic level coma.

And 3th edition Gods and pantheons there you get the actual Gods and Avatars with stats.

I assume it's the same as the 3(.5)rd edition, those are the stats for the most common avatar, the deity itself can either be in a similar shape as her avatar just chillin' inside it's own domain where it has hundreds of thousands of minions to protect itself or shapeshifted into a mountain or any other object without stats in said domain and spawning avatars as decoys. to kill a deity, you have to destroy whatever shape it is currently, in her own domain AND be a deity with a higher rank yourself, or using an artifact or epic spell/ritual capable of giving you that capability. I guess when he says that a deity doesn't have statistics, it means it doesn't have fixed stats, only a list of divine abilities/immunities, a portfolio and the capability of spawning avatars with a number of thematically fitting divine salient abilities proportional to the deity's rank.

Deities and Demigods, Copyright 1980. Gods in D&D have had stats since 1st edition.

Yeah, and 3rd and 3.5th had the Deities and Demigods Handbook. The entire point of that was yup give stats to gods.

2nd AD&D : Faiths & Avatars Forgotten Realms - Powers and Pantheons

So do they have in 3e.

Those were for Avatars

Pessimistic Pomegranates Actually no. The book itself gives rules for making avatars based on the stats of said deities. Namely that a avatar would have some of the class levels from their stat blocks.

No.. they are not Deities. They get demon and devil traits

I think some Demon Lords also qualify as Demigods or even Lesser Gods, but according to this video that would require a lot of willing followers, which Demon Lords and Archdevils rarely have many of. Demigods are basically cult gods. Lesser gods have a foot in the door, while Intermediary and Greater would be full-fledged religious movements. We are talking percentages of a plane's population at this point, probably several planes for the Intermediary and Greater.

@@rosalynnejames6346 I've seen the stats for the demon lords, and so far none have had deity levels.

@@rosalynnejames6346 wasn't there a bit about how Asmodeus can destroy the multiverse if he wants to but he doesn't because he's incredibly injured? Also isn't he part of the main pantheon now?

@Stygian Eons oop?

He did a video about dracoliches and I think he talks about regular liches in that one as well

Yeah I would love to see a video on liches and discuss them in detail. Although I hope it’s not just restricted to the Forgotten Realms

Maybe a video on liches AND the undying court of Ebberon

That’s a great idea, now you can make a DM Npc and then reveal their an avatar.

Yes

Ao- the god of gods.

probably overgods?

This right here, I am wondering who Overlord is as well. Is he just a god who's domain is to give out domains? Or is Overlord just another name for Ao?

Thomas Sapp Yes the Overlord is Ao and he decides the rules of the forgotten realms.

@@lebanemcarl68 thanks for the clarification. 🙂

The Discovery is such a good album!

@@stelarfoil71 Every album has good songs :)

Mythic Odysseys of Theros. It'll feature those exact gods for D&D

Dnd gods don’t have a lot of good art. The MTG gods are better for the video because the art is smoother.

@@lebanemcarl68 MTG does have amazing art quality. Plus the ones he showed specifically, the Pantheon of Theros, will be added to D&D once the Mythic Odysseys of Theros is released.

Evan Ortiz Really? I haven’t heard about theros. What is it?

@@lebanemcarl68 think fantasy ancient Greece. Then make Zeus the Sun god instead of the sky god and make him leagues worse. The gods and monsters also made of people's belief and come from Nyx. There are also zombies in the Returned, people who escaped the underworld by giving up their identities and doning a gold mask

They get paid enough

same, as someone who has played MTG I honestly think the artists don't get enough credit as is. Their art is amazing and they deserve more recognition.

@@rhysjonsmusic I meant at least list their name with the picture... like "Illustrated by John Smith". It isn't always about the money.

Don't forget all the Warhammer art.

​@@christmas6666yeah like a watermark or smth in the corner.

Closest physically of those who could enact it, was my interpretation. There's also what happened when Lamashtu killed Curchanus; where parts of the portfolio were willed to a specific deity, so that could be another option, for at least parts of a portfolio which do not fit the killer, but that was Pathfinder wiki, so... keep or trash; your choice. ^^ pathfinder.fandom.com/wiki/Lamashtu

But Asmodeus could. Or beat him down until he was powerless and yeet his remains into the bedrock. Which should be take as proof that he was never just a fallen celestial