She’s brilliant, articulate and can I say she has the most beautiful speaking voice?

Haven't you guys ever watched Indiana Jones? Obviously the way to survive a nuclear bomb is to hide in the refrigerator.

I love Annie Jacobsen, she has done so much more than she may ever know, thank you!

You don't even want to talk about nukes. In a full nuclear exchange, you die fast or you die slow. I don't want to watch my skin fall off or yours. " The survivors will envy the dead" USAF

The film Threads is another good film showing the effects of a limited nuclear war without pulling any punches.

Here for Annie Jacobsen’s voice 😁

I'm a vet from cold war 80s era trained in NBC. NUCLEAR BIO AND CHEMICAL this is good info i didnt know about. Great video

Really good summery, and an important topic for people to grasp, MAD is madness. Thank you 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

As this video shows there is no preparing for nuclear war. You defo want to go first. Also her calming voice is so alarming considering the context.

I really admire her as an author

this was an exceptionally good one !

Re the ICBM interceptors, there's also the fact of Multiple Independently targetable Re-entry Vehicles (MIRVs). Each missile launched may contain up to 15 warheads, including or in addition to decoys, designed to soak up interceptors. Therefore, if a missile's MIRVs are released before interception, that single missile's payload could soak up 1/3 or so of the total number of interceptors in the USA's arsenal.

You truly have the most beautiful voice, Thanks for your research, You are so good,

I appreciate Michael for bringing Annie Jacobsen to share her insights.

I bought her audiobook on Amazon. I look forward to listening to it this week!

Duck and cover is not entirely BS. It depends on how far away you are. If you are in the blast zone, duck and cover is irrelevant. There will be no time between the flash and the effects. But outside of the blast zone at the point where most structures survive, being on the floor under something will protect you from at least some harm. It could be the difference between glass in your face or not or something falling on you or not. Even fairly "minor" injuries will be extremely life threatening. There will be no functional healthcare system. So the kids seeing a flash not running to the windows to see what happened prevent 1000 kids in that school from having their faces full of glass and their eyes with huge shards of glass in them.

Read the Book 'One Second After' by William R. Forstchen. I think about it all the time, and I read it about ten years ago. The novel follows along a retired military man and his family after what happens to be a nuclear detonation very high up in the atmosphere. nothing is damaged on ground level but just about everything electronic is no longer functioning. It is a terrifying book and i think EVERYONE should read it. The other book is 'NEVER' by Ken Follett and and it follows along several story arcs which eventually culminates in nukes being slung by China, US and North Korea. Reading these books will definitely, as the young people say, change your brain chemistry.

The best film to watch on this is 'Threads'.

Her audiobook is narrated by her btw, bought it instantly

The President needs six minutes to get out of bed, first 😂

I don't know if the "Hitler was killed in '38" would've necessarily changed anything. The atom was split in Germany independent of the Nazis.Physicists immediately realized that meant the possibility of a run away fission reaction. Atomic weapons development was in the scientific zeitgeist of the time. During the Manhattan project, when they were determining which weapon design they should target, Edward Teller had already worked out the mathmatics for thermonuclear weapons and wanted to skip fission weapons entirely and go straight to "hydrogen" weapons. They chose to develop fission weapons because they would be far easier and faster to develop.

Her voice makes nukes sound therapeutic. I might actually feel safe if she told me to duck and cover.

There is no winner in a nuke war. Insanity

Good Afternoon Everyone, This is a very interesting and insightful KZfaq video, Thank you for the video Mr. Shermer and Ms. Jacobsen, Alister Ian Hoult, Carrying Place, Ontario, Canada.

It's my humble opinion that if we allow ourselves to get dragged into a nuclear war it's got to be one of if not the top stupidest thing we could allow ourselves to undo society as we know it.

Good show. Annie is recapping information which has been available but must be brought forward again in a new package. I studied a lot of other declassified sources which print the same thing as Annie has put into a better reading less dry, book.

I would recommend (not sure if thats the right term tbh) to watch a British docufilm called Threads. Its easily the best (again not sure if that word is right) film about Nuclear War. It shows the full terror of a nuclear war and how the population would be simply left to deal with it. Its based in an industrial city in England (Sheffield).

Thanks for an excellent interview

A great book. Bought the Audible version and the hardback book. Listened to and read it from cover to cover.

Every fictional story has a level of truth. Excellent creative writing of fiction.

Preparing for a nuclear war is as effective as preparing to climb out of an abyss while in freefall

Great chat Andrew and Tom.

Take a drink for every time Annie says “…right?”

It was an interesting read. While nobody would argue that Nuclear War is winnable I think we do need to give credit where some credit is due. ~ The US developed the first Fission weapons racing against Nazi Germany. We built the things to end a war. Question the use if you want, but given what people knew at the time it all seems rational and logical. ~ The US developed the first Fusion weapons racing against Soviet Russia. We built the things to make Nuclear War unthinkable to even the most paranoid of Soviet leadership. If they maintained certainty of a no win scenario they would not want a war. Look no further then the outcome of the Cuban Missile Crisis. ~ The US developed THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of Nuclear weapons for the same reasoning as above. It had the benefit, which was only understood in hindsight, of bankrupting the Soviet Union. ~ The US was always willing to step back from the brink any time the Soviet Union wanted to do so. Test Bans, Disarmament, Tactical Weapons limitations, we have less then 2000 nuclear weapons deployed matching the Russians. Its 2000 too many, but look at where we were versus where we are. It was wasteful, stupid, and dangerous, but we're here now. ~ Where things have gone wrong is that in a post Soviet World the US has lost focus. Rogue nation states have nuclear weapons or are actively trying to get them which is a destabilizing element in modern Nuclear use theory. The concept of the Mad Man has upset the balance that has been maintained since WWII. This is where Annie Jacobsen's book comes in. Her premise, based on the unthinkable 'bolt in the blue' strike, that kicks off a war that ends us all. Sadly that was the most plausible of elements in this fiction. It goes down hill from there rapidly. North Korea has a weapon that can hit the US technically, but nobody not even North Korea is insane enough to use it preemptively. They have nukes for the same reason we do, it complicates the equation. How do you deal with a Nuclear armed enemy when beating them conventionally would likely result in a nuclear release from a desperate mad man? Ask the US State Department how fun its been trying to support Ukraine without provoking the Russians? We don't want the Ukrainians to win because we're terrified what Russia might do if they lose. Iran is developing nuclear weapons for the same reason North Korea did. Back to the book though. A lone missile from North Korea is launched at Washington DC which the US military is unable to intercept. Plausible, but i think unlikely, The US military is not in the business of sharing its real capability and if Annie really believes a lone ICBM can get all the way to DC I have a bridge in Baltimore I want her to buy. The second launch from a Diesel Electric North Korean sub of the coat of California is laughable in my opinion. I can't confirm, but I'm willing to bet a fortune, that any North Korean sub that leaves port is tailed by a US attack sub. Those boats, are old, badly maintained, slow, and noisy, especially when running their diesels. It would be dead before it even attempted to launch. Likely every single North Korea sub at sea would be dead within minutes of an actual missile launch on the US. The apocalypse scenario that is described in Annie Jacobsen's is predicated on a retaliatory launch by the Unite States from ICBMs in the northern great plains and by subs. The limitation described by Annie is a real one. These missiles would need to over fly Russia to hit North Korea. I don't doubt that. What I question is why any military leader in the US would be stupid enough to recommend that action. More importantly that they would do so without contacting Russian leaders. I question the US would even order a launch in retaliation in that manner and of that size. I question even more that the US would not communicate its intentions to its adversaries. The window to act she speaks of constantly in the book only matters in a full scale attack. This wasn't that kind of attack, this was a single missile targeting DC. It would not impact our war fighting capability. Everything else in the book is graphic in its description of the suffering and death to the point its numbing and it doesn't land with the desired amount shock after the 4th or 5th description of it. The EMP attack was pointless, a waste of words in a massively overwritten book. Again I question how plausible it is that the US would allow anyone to loft a 'Super EMP' into space and then just sit back and watch it without doing anything. The US military has fighter launched anti satellite missiles in its inventory and this is another target that would be eliminated at the onset of any hostile act by North Korea. The one thing the Author probably gets correct is the massive amount of overkill that would be aimed at Seoul. Its so obvious has been a point of considerable frustration for decades. One could argue that one of the reasons North Korea ended up getting nuclear weapons is the fact that they have 10 million South Korean hostages in Seoul. The capital should have been moved during the Korean War to take it off the table. Overall the book stops being entertaining or interesting the deeper you get into it. Save your self the 12 hours.

Good discussion, wary of those leading today in consideration of this topic.

The world goes up in flames, with Annie’s dulcet tone narration.😂

Lets hope me and my family our not here before it happens

Podcasts like this are why I bought ferret cages, shortwave radios (2) and a shovel.

There's no preparation to the 6 minutes warning,even how has bunkers won't have the time to get in the place where the sun will be gone forever.Each ICBM is not just one bomb but many warheads built within

audiobook is just frightening, compelling book.

What happens after a nuclear launch? Bloody panic!

Absolutely fascinating information! She's like one of those interviewee characters on NPR from an SNL skit.

34:05 Anyone know the specifics of why you cannot survive a nuclear blast in a bunker or have a link to this sector?

At 37:00 she says boost phase twice. I think she means ballistic phase. I don't think the technology exists to intercept in the boost phase which she says is 5 minutes.

I bet this woman has an after hrs phone service for her side hustle 😮

They really need to cast her as an older Sarah Connor if they make any more Terminator films.... I can only imagine how she sounds when she is agitated/angry about something

I could not put down this book. Riveting and horrifying. One mad man away from world annihilation .

You: Makes video with Annie Jacobsen on her book. Me: Doesn't even finish the video yet, goes to Barnes and Noble and comes back with the next 4-5 hours of my Saturday tied up, lol

Because if you get rid of lunch on warning, then the enemy will be able to destroy you. It’s a forced move. After the barrage hits there won’t be a counterstrike if you don’t have this policy you lose. I don’t get why these people don’t understand this it’s common sense

I too had a nuclear shelter under the dining table .

sometimes the engineers were allowed to chalk the name of the destination, other times the ordinance team were allowed to do it, sometimes they would just paint the tip yellow - but most interesting, are the wheels on the bomb cart, that would go round and round, round and round -

So Dr. Strangelove, the movie was spot on about the mentality of these people.

In the UK in middle school we did drills of hiding under our wooden desks and even then I thought it pointless. I was a USAF military brat and my husband is a veteran. I wish nuclear weapons had never been created as nobody wins if used. Only death and destruction. I am in a close enough proximity to DC to be at least in the outer danger zone or completely destroyed if the base I live next to is hit. The US government should absolutely prepare the public on what their options are and get us ready. We want to know what to do if we survive also. I am understanding we would be entirely alone and would have to survive as long as we can. I wish there was a part of the government dedicated to that. I hate the not talking about it. It isn't helpful. Not everyone has a bunker, an arsenal of weapons and gallons of water in standby or a years supply of food. It would be chaos. We need to avoid the chaos that would follow by being as prepared as possible.

Oh my,that voice!!!!!

The problem is if some terrorist gets his hands on the bomb or it’s a cyber attack on bombs

Yes

How does one get ready for nuclear war? I don’t have NORAD in my backyard.

I live near Vandenberg, so no worries, no need to prep.

What happens? The politicians hide in the bunkers while we all die.

"More Nuclear weapons makes us more safe" Sounds like Nato rhetoric

People went underground to protect themselves from the sun, that throws it's shell at us every 12,000 years. This is a cycle.

All you need is EMP'S, take out the electricity, no generators, people will loose there minds, and the powers stations would go into melt down. Back to tribal gangs, no heating, all electronics gone, ect. Preferable than actual deverstion.

The rich scurry down the holes like rats

we must look at this metaphorical laying down of our arms... As our appointment has gotten the drop on us with big guns.... This occurs quite often in the scenario without words.....

This woman has clearly never played Fallout

These people talk about nuclear war as if they talk about someone goes to market to buy tomatoes and cucumbers. Insane 😂

"Nuclear Winter" OR...worse: Global South Virtue Signaling. *Runs away screaming in horror. *

I'm not scared.... The UN is under obligation to help us, when we become refugees. Free education, health care, housing....

Yeah, that’s why there are no shelters because there is no way to survive. The radiation is so powerful and long lasting, decades, even without nuclear winter, not going back to hunter gatherers, because animals won’t survive either, no clean water, massive fires don’t leave much that is useful. Hope you’re in Argentina or New Zealand or some remote island somewhere safe. Can’t store enough water and food for decades.

Sounds like people just can't wait

Another comforting thought for the day: Every single modern weapon that man has ever created has eventually and historically been utilized against their respective enemies. Sleep well now.

Terrifying ☢️

55:54 The Day After is a "movie", not a "mini-series".

We've known since 1954, with Castle Bravo, and later with the Tsar Bomb, about the effects. I don't need to read that book!

What happens? Everyone sighs with relief.

Well looks like we're going to find out here

Highly interesting video. Easy to listen to. Clarifies much.

Oh great, now the apocalypse sounds sexy, we are doomed.

I had to put this comment in as it is so pertinent to the subject. Most missiles these days are most certainly rockets that you can identify as to their load. But the bit i found missing during the whole thing was that today, most of these missiles are multi head missiles, that is to say the carry more than one bomb ( these are refered to as mervs or simple multi warhead missiles, where on re entry each warhead has a different target) This can i understand be anything up to eleven warheads. They re-enter as such speed they actually glow, and aslo are because of the slear re enter speed more than hard to track. These days there are even mervs that can in fact change their tragectory during this period of time and can avoid being taken out. A fact missed by most is that even being able to hit one of tbese does not stop the end result, it may just hasten the end result but does not change it. Taking about this subject as if we had ways of avoiding the outcome is both dishonest and very missleading. Again it has to be taken into account that each one has possibly different instructions as to its point of detination i.e. upper burst mid burst and ground burst, each one having a totally diferent effect here on the ground and very much so i terms of damage. I feel that going into detail about this subject, and it can be heard in this conversation, That the end result is in anyway safer than another, that is the most dangerous take of the whole thing. The biggest thing anyone can involve themselves in is the total destruction of ALL these weapons. As a race, we have clearly involved ourselves in creating the biggest bang for a buck, a point of view which should be taken out and hung as being the act of a total lunatic , or more importantly an act of deseration, a subject the U.S. really does show as being in need of some very deep education. By this i mean if you take the saying " Do unto others as you would have done to ones self" The biggest and most important thing we should ALL be part of is getting rid of these weapons totally. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A TACTICAL NUCLEAR WEAPON the end result of any of these weapons is the same when looked at from the point of view of our planet, its end result leaves devastation for a period of time than none of mankind can change or overcome for far to many years to ever be considered safe. The only thing i think anyone with a sence of responsability is as follows. MANKIND WAKE UP, STOP BEING DELUSIONAL AND STOP LYING TO OTHERS AND OURSELVES, ANDVSTART TREATING EVERYONE WITH DOWN TO EARTH COMMON DECENCY If there was any reason at all for someone else paying attention to what humans do here on earth it has to be this very subject, because like it or not, there is only one who can say without fear of contradiction that they could in any way resue anyone during the stupidity of using these and that is our maker regardless of the name we use in describing them, and start think along the lines we humans take, why bother rescuing the idiot who let them loose in the first place if that all they can do well, again wake up world and make it possible to wake up each and every day to smellthe coffee, the clean air and the flowers, what we have been given is something so perfect, stop messingnit up!!!!!!

cool

Perhaps we would merely only have to disarm to guarantee we would not be obliterated with the first strike....

In a nuclear war, what happens to Africa, South America, middle east, south asia, east asia, SEA, etc?

Annie must want to try out for the State Department. Brushing up on Hegemony and raising the specter of incoming packages of Deuterium and Tritium. Flavored will special sauces.

Why is this being looped?

Our newest defense system are many interceptors using small nuclear warheads for them to detonate high in the atmosphere and this way destroying incoming ballistic misiles.

Annie has the Cadbury Fox voice.

No informing the people? In other words that bright flash is just going to happen and thats it? How absolutely CRUEL.

What did the detonations of mega-ton thermal nuclear weapons do to the ozone layer, how much nuclear contamination exists today in our upper atmosphere and how might the nuclear contamination in our atmosphere be affecting climate change? There are so many unknowns and speculations, it's just jaw dropping.

Full five stars. 100% brilliant take and storytelling that I believe everyone should read (everyone, on earth). Only critique: Nuclear weapons were inevitable, they are not our enemy. We are our enemy. Always have been, always will be. As "modern" and "civliized" as we may seem, the collective 8 billion of us continue to be divided and dominated by varied, at-odds tribal and irrational belief structures with more than 200 separate, independent nations all committed to protecting themselves over every other nation. Even the United States of America, for all its perceived glory, currently can't wipe its ass at the federal level because someone on another team will reject truth and reason to make sure that the shitshow continues and their power and wealth are not put at risk.

This was a really great interview, by both.

At least I know what to expect.

Id like to see Annie ride a warhead into the ground like Captain Tom did at the end of Dr Strangelove. Shed love it!

What about going to Salt Mines. I heard they could help people a city as big as Detroit. Have people thought of this Ms. Jacobsen? You might be underneath one right now.

We need to be unabashedly steadfastly and rigorously cerebral about this game that we find ourselves in the midst of.... Myopic Stupidity is not the experiment game we need to play...

Happy time's 🎉

I don't know how to steep into this direction but in some way the only way to prevent this would be first strike..... because of the cards the way they are the chess pieces... Would be a preemptive discussion of unconditional surrender.......

Would our country have an innate and even classified response to metaphorically jump on a hand grenade for the world.....

…and aren’t we so very impressed with the depths of our intelligence.

Or would the country under attack just let it happen and think it better to keep some people alive than everyone dead? Kind of how i might respond if someone randomly punched me in the head. I might just walk away and not take revenge

It is sick. Let’s just get along