What if I had, a RIVIAN...

  Рет қаралды 2,134

MotorSport UnPlugged

MotorSport UnPlugged

Күн бұрын

Will 2022's slate of new off-road worthy electric trucks and SUVs, in particular the Rivian R1S with MAX battery delivering over 400 miles of range, be capable of handling our Overlanding adventures? Let's take a detailed look at our last 6-day trip to Death Valley and crunch the numbers...
0:00 Introduction
4:04 Calculating Recharge Time
13:40 Calculating Range
17:11 Trip Analysis
22:34 Rivian in our trip itinerary
25:59 NEMA 14-50
30:01 Alternative EV itinerary
34:26 Charging infrastructure around DV
40:24 Conclusions

Пікірлер: 22
@HarveyPayne
@HarveyPayne 2 жыл бұрын
I made it through the whole video and didn't skip ahead. Kudos on all the math. There are some bad assumptions but the net result is a close enough ballpark figure. This last December we towed our 21' camp trailer behind our Model X from San Diego to Furnace Creek, spent a week in Death Valley, then towed our trailer home. We did stay overnight in Lone Pine at a 50 amp campsite so we could charge up to 100% before heading in. We spent that week in Death Valley driving a total of about 800 miles before charging up to 100% at our campsite and leaving via the east side and down to Baker to recharge. We drove another 50-60 miles and stayed at Calico Ghost Town for the next two nights, enjoying the park for the one day. We drove home the next. We just did the overnight at Lone Pine on the way in because we had already spent a week there last summer on our way to the national parks in Washington and Montana, again with our camp trailer in tow. I am very familiar with traveling and camping with an EV with and without the camp trailer. At a 50 amp campsite you typically have 20 amp, 30 amp, and 50 amp plugs. The post itself is only really wired to support one of them so if you use more, you need to reduce the load. We typically plug our camper into the 30 amp so we can use our AC and the car into the 50 amp, but we dial it back to 24 amps. That adds more time to the charge but as you noted, you don't use all the range each day. When we get back to camp we plug in. We unplug when we leave in the morning. Just like at home. When visiting other national parks we usually get a powered campsite just outside the park because most national parks don't have powered hookup sites. Death Valley with 50 amp full hookups (water and sewer too) was very welcome. Your assessment of traveling -- driving a couple hours, take a break, drive a couple more is how we drive. It's how we did in gas cars too so not a change for us. With a big battery you can take a short potty break, then two more hours of driving later, you're ready or a longer meal break. We tend to charge more than we need at meal stops just because the car charges so fast and service at some restaurants is slow. When we are pulling our trailer we have our own bathroom and kitchen, so we can set our own schedule and are only slaves to our own laggardness.
@HarveyPayne
@HarveyPayne 2 жыл бұрын
Forgot to mention, we have the extended pack R1T as well as the CyberTruck tri-motor on order (whichever come first) mainly due to the increased range that will give us when towing. Currently we go about 120 miles between charge stops with our X. The way most chargers are configured we need to drop trailer more than 1/2 the time in order to recharge. It only takes a couple minutes but still I'd rather not drop.
@MotorsportUnplugged
@MotorsportUnplugged 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the real world data, excellent to hear. I'd guess the X is significantly more aerodynamic than the Rivans, so adding something draggy like a trailer would percentage wise hurt even more at highway speeds... Is your X the 100D? Also why not use the supercharger in Lone Pine, or was the overnight at 50A simply good enough?
@HarveyPayne
@HarveyPayne 2 жыл бұрын
@@MotorsportUnplugged we were able to charge overnight in the campground. For this trip we didn't even unhook the trailer at Boulder Creek RV Park. At Lone Pine you have to drop to charge up. Yes, we have a 2017 X100D and we are pulling an Alto A2124 by Safari Condo. The trailer as configured and loaded is right at 3600 lbs.
@kenwong7404
@kenwong7404 2 жыл бұрын
Great analysis. Reserved an R1T with max pack. Agree the large pack is not good enough for more out of the way places. Hopefully there will be more DC fast chargers by 2023.
@Salamanderfs
@Salamanderfs 2 жыл бұрын
I trust the EV infrastructure to dramatically improve in the next 2-3 years. Same, I might wait to order mine until late 2022, early 2023 playing the wait and see approach.
@TheLearningCatalystCoach
@TheLearningCatalystCoach 2 жыл бұрын
For aerodynamics, you're in better shape than others with a hardshell rooftop tent. With the R1S will you actually need the basket up there (that adds significant drag). With all the extra storage in the R1S, you could eliminate that(frunk, much longer vehicle than your Volvo with rear cargo space. Agreed on recharging at 20%, you can go further before each recharge, for sure.
@daadreeb6582
@daadreeb6582 2 жыл бұрын
Well done analysis. I’ve become increasingly concerned about range and charging so this was very interesting to me. Very upset Rivian pulled a bait and switch on the 400+ mile max pack. It was heavily marketed when I placed my pre-order, then put behind the Launch Edition and now we’re told 2023. Terrible way to treat long-time pre-order holders and does not bode well for how much we can trust Rivian. In an “adventure” vehicle, every mile counts. To use your phrase, having a “margin for error” on long road trips to remote destinations is important - stuff happens. Given how they marketed 400+ miles, I think the $10K premium is gouging customers. I also feel Rivian got too carried away with 0-60. Don’t need that in an SUV and would gladly trade it for range with smaller motors. I was also surprised to learn the R1S has no full size spare. Not smart to head into the wilderness without one in an “adventure” vehicle, particularly given the R1s are running 20” rims. See the TFLoffroad video “Bronco vs Wrangler vs Defender” for 2 blown tires on the Defender with 20” rims. I’ll be taking a close look at the 2023 Toyota 4Runner while I wait for my R1S. It will likely be a hybrid (and have CarPlay / Android Auto!) and be a true adventure vehicle given its heritage. BTW-pretty sure the max pack will be 180-kWh as opposed to 200-kWh.
@MotorsportUnplugged
@MotorsportUnplugged 2 жыл бұрын
Ah I got a funny idea on that 800HP 3.0s 0-60 thing, it does sound like a ridiculous amount right? But imagine you're off-roading, or on the snow/ice, and only have a _single_ wheel of traction to move a 7000lb vehicle. In say your 4Runner example, or maybe a bigger Land Cruiser, you don't need crazy power because you're leveraging the mechanical strength of the locking diffs and drive shafts to send 100% of that power to the single wheel with traction. But the Rivan...you have to depend on a single motor, which as you know is only 25% of that total crazy output. Just 200HP to move +7000lbs up a trail, over a rock, off the ice, whatever...sound like barely enough, and so I can understand why they didn't want to go lower.
@smpercival1
@smpercival1 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly the reason I just picked up a 22’ Lexus GX. Have a R1S reservation for a December delivery but may wait a couple years for the tech to get better. Thanks for putting this together!
@slkttop
@slkttop 2 жыл бұрын
It is a great video. Amazingly well-documented. You make some great points about how arduous the task would be.
@tomscala7672
@tomscala7672 2 жыл бұрын
Back in the day, I delivered 5 gallon kegs and cases of bottles of kombucha with my 2013 Ford Focus Electric. Lunch was at Whole Foods with a free level 2 charger. This was replaced with 2017 Bolt that was luckily leased and returned. The Bolt was charged to 100% every night for three years using net metering off our 10kWp solar system. Three days a week I could do a 220 mile delivery route starting out with 1000 lbs. Our 2022 Mini Cooper SE is in transit from Oxfordshire and can't wait for the road trip challenges. Later this summer we expect delivery of the R1T large pack and will be adventuring Florida and the southeast for the two years we wait for our second R1T with the Max pack. By then the charging network will be strong enough to get our yet to be determined camper out west. Maybe we'll see you in Death Valley , Titus Canyon was mentioned by the Rebelle Rally crew.
@rishikamra
@rishikamra 2 жыл бұрын
Great analysis. Does the Rivian website mention somewhere that the Max pack for the R1S will be 200 kW and the rated range will be 425 miles ?
@MotorsportUnplugged
@MotorsportUnplugged 2 жыл бұрын
Nowhere on the Rivan web page no, gleaned that from old Rivian articles and 'owner's forum posts. Rivian themselves are being cagey on the R1S max pack specs since it sounds like they are still working on engineering it, so need to salt all this to taste and wait and see what they can deliver.
@ojeskog
@ojeskog 2 жыл бұрын
A very good summary of how you will have to change your approach when going full EV. Sadly I think reality will give you a lot less range to start with. I can see you are starting with the EPA range. To quote Rivian "delivering an EPA estimated 316 miles of range when paired with 21" wheels. For 20" wheels, our estimates show a range reduction of 10-15%." So just having their 20" all terrain wheels you have to cut 15% range. The rooftop tent and everything else will sadly kill a lot more range than you have calculated on the interstate. Thankfully off road at slower speed it won't be killing nearly as much range. When it comes to level 2 charging you have to remember there is a lot higher charging losses there. Not sure if you have checked the losses on your XC60 T8 but in my one charged on 240v 16A (in Europe) I lose 20%!!! 2500kW put out of my charger has only given 2000kW of electricity in the Volvo app.
@RHPDaddy
@RHPDaddy 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this. Very interesting that the mileage to recharging time ratio is worse with the max pack
@RHPDaddy
@RHPDaddy 2 жыл бұрын
Or is it?
@MotorsportUnplugged
@MotorsportUnplugged 2 жыл бұрын
The numbers I talked about in here were generally time to recharge 10% to 80% capacity, but not time to range in miles. For the Standard pack, it was ~37m to recharge enough for 175.7 miles, or 4.75 miles per minute. For the MAX pack, it was ~55m to recharge enough for 236.3 miles, or 4.3 miles per minute. I'd say this just points to the fact that the MAX system will over-all be less efficient in capacity per mile, because it's heavier from carrying the extra batteries. That being said, if you were to _unfairly_ recharge a MAX from 10% to 50% capacity (so it's full speed all the time), and compare that miles-per-minute against recharging the Standard pack to the same _milage_, I'd bet the MAX is significantly faster.
@RHPDaddy
@RHPDaddy 2 жыл бұрын
@@MotorsportUnplugged I was under the impression that the range estimates whether EPA or not took the total vehicular weight into consideration. So the 400 plus mile range of the max pack will be for the heavier vehicle. So, it would seem, using your estimates that the 10-80% charging band of the two batteries, the max pack is less efficient charging (it takes more minutes to charge per mile of range provided) than the large (standard) pack. The comparison wouldn't be fair unless you were comparing the same charging range of the batteries. But maybe the difference is within estimation error range or directly related to an assumption that was made. The only reason I even looked at it was because of a comment you made regarding "driving for 2 hours and charging for half an hour" (15:59) in the large pack and how that was not appealing to you and that the max pack would be a better situation of time spent driving versus recharging. However the numbers suggest the ratio favors the standard pack with a slightly better ratio of miles to charging time across the 10-80% band. But I do agree that the max pack gives you more flexibility to drive and recharge the way you like.
@omgfoz
@omgfoz 2 жыл бұрын
Hey I hope you see this in time, but I am hosting an open house at my shop SWAT Customs in Fremont tho Saturday June 11th. I'd like to invite you to hang out and meet other like-minded overlanding enthusiasts! Details are on our Facebook and Instagram pages. 11am-2pm. Hope you can make it! I've been following you for years at this point and I am a big fan of your build.
@MotorsportUnplugged
@MotorsportUnplugged 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the invite but we already had engagements this weekend, next time!
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