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Surprised you didn't mention the patch of sidewalk grass that nobody has ever stepped on in the last 17000 years, and the guy who cuts the grass uses a ride-on mower so he never has stepped on it either. I really like that part. It highlights how routinesque life has become.

One small criticism I have with this type of stories about immortality is that the immortals remember what happened thousands of years past. I can't even remember what I ate for lunch a week ago. I think people would forget what happened or what they've done if enough time passed. Remembering more than that, is a super power by itself.

A perfect utopia can not be boring as the possibility of boredom means it isn't perfect.

This sounds like a world where artists and fiction writers would be the most valuable people in society, and we would have unlimited time to dedicate to our crafts. I could actually write my novels without having to dedicate time to earning enough money to survive.

Lack of conflict does not equal boredom. Without the constant stress of physical survival, I would write books, make games, become an expert woodworker, get a masters in horticulture then another in astrophysics. I could fill a century just with the random things in my head right now. I would bet that 10,000 years would go by and I would still have a ton of things left on my to-do list.

I couldn't help but imagine spending my eternity building shit in Minecraft. With all that time on your hands you could actually explore every inch of the world and even use up all the resources and cover every inch of it with cool builds

This still felt very much like a disguised dystopia, but I did like the part about finding joy in the small things regardless of how insignificant they are.

the heaven bit reminds of "The good place" , when they find that the good place is a place so routinely boring, the residents hate it there.

YES, more people needed to hear about 17776, and it's sequel 20020. Legitimately one of the most creative stories I've read, and one of the few I've read multiple times. I'm so glad you did a video on it.

A wise man once said "Living forever means having enough time to explore the world so thoroughly that you could consider each and every blade of grass a landmark" That wise man is me. I thought of it while on a walk the other day.

I feel like everyone would take to weird LARPing with like d&d villages, actual piracy making a comeback, weird cyberpunk cities, and a petition every ten years to make evil robot dragons just to have something bad

I've always felt that a 'perfect paradise' isn't one where there is no conflict and no want, but rather one that *always* resolves it - there's never any loose ends, there's never any dissatisfaction. Because otherwise, it's not perfect because people would get bored, and then there's want and conflict again against the very idea. A perfect world isn't one where you are just given what you want, but a world where absolutely everyone gets what they want after working for it, and it is engineered to feel satisfying to their level of desire and effort.

I think another fascinating look at a utopian future that's really, truly a utopia is Becky Chambers' _A Psalm for the Wild-Built._ It is set in a solarpunk world where people no longer have a monetary system, where everyone has food, water, and lodging, and where crime is unheard of because everybody is always looked after and genuinely cared for. And yet, the main character of the story still feels distress when they wake up every morning. The book is about their own personal journey to understand their purpose in life, and what it means to *have* a purpose in life, and whether they *need* a purpose in life, and it's delightful. It also features a wonderful robot character who actually reminds me a lot of you, Tale Foundry! Its name is Mosscap and it's such a great character :) EDIT: A quick internet search yields that the name of this channel's host robot is Talebot. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I addressed them using their channel title because I wasn't aware of any other name for them :)

People asking why, in their immortality, humans didn’t do other things. The answer is simple: John Bois wanted to write about two things. Those two things are the human experience and playing football forever.

Life is already boring, at least I wouldn't also be constantly stressed. We stagnate in real life often because we have to do the same thing day in day out and never have time for things we'd like to do or learn or create etc. or because of depression or other problems. Feeling like there's no point because we'll never have time, not the opposite.

Reading 17776, i was surprised to see how few humans in that setting focused on creating really wild and elaborate art projects. I mean that's what i would do if i didn't have to worry about money, food, or healthcare.

To live with eternity, is to embrance the silliness and wonder of a child that never thinks on the end of days. Loved the history.

This is like playing an open world single player video game. At first I want to do everything, explore every inch. Get to know the map and it’s secrets. Eventually you do, and you get everything your character could possibly want. At that point I quit the game and never play it again.

17776 is great! The Google Earth illustrations really add to it.

Im not immortal, so obviously I don’t know how this would really hold up, but I love the idea of getting to live forever with everyone else, and just. Hang out. Get as good as I’d like to at everything, make lots of art, get ideas for more art from the art I just made, etc. Etc.

17776 is one of my favorite works I've ever consumed. I would say 'read' except it isn't just an act of reading. I don't even remember how I found out about it, but I absolutely love it.

This sort of makes me think of Rain World. The Ancients were stuck in an endless cycle, and wanted nothing but a way out. If they died, they’d come back, endlessly. They achieved incredible things, all in the effort of finding a way to die and stay dead, a way to completely disappear forever, and end that endless cycle. Conversely, ask any Houseki no Kuni (aka Land of the Lustrous) fan what they think, and they’ll tell you they would’ve wanted nothing more than the story of the Gems to go on endlessly, free of the suffering that plagues them. I’m personally a fan of both, though a much bigger one for the latter. My take on an endless life of stagnation is that l don’t think I would mind it as much as one may think. I’d have endless time to do anything I’d ever want to do, and once I’ve done everything, I’d come up with something new. For the things I already know, I could learn them even better. In a world without death and with endless time, I see it as a world without the dread of an ever-approaching ending.

'Memories deletions' is a solution. Like forgetting the memories and experience of reading an extremely good novel, to read it again to experience the same pleasure.

I’d take the boredom of living forever over not having enough time

I think this might be my favorite Tale Foundry video. Not 100% sure, but I don’t think immortality would be a curse unless I couldn’t sleep and/or forget.

I remember a comic that humanity go extinct after achieving a utopic state, and creating a different simulated universe, with more difficult laws of physics, all so they can have something to solve. They eventually go extinct after that, because they didn’t have any offspring. It follows evolved creatures 50000 years after that event

I retired 2 months ago, I have all the money I'll ever need, a nice home in a lovely, safe community, I'm in perfect health, the kids are grown, my wife is gone, I have nothing to do but enjoy life-- but I'm bored.

Boredom is perhaps the the feeling humans wish to avoid the single most, to the point where people, if given no other options, will cause themselves pain rather than be bored, and if left with nothing to do the human mind will literally tear itself apart. You know what's ironic? an existence like this was what I imagined Hell to be like, no pain or suffering, at least not physical, instead it's an existence where you can do nothing and nothing happens, an eternity of nothingness that you are forced to experience from the rest of time.

I've never understood the idea of how such a life could be "boring." All the places to go. All the things to do and see.The books to read. The movies and shows and plays to watch. The skills to learn. The projects to build and the art to create. Singing and dancing and going to concerts. The people to meet and hopefully befriend. Even with endless time and resources, and no deadly dull means of survival job to hold me back, I do not believe I could ever run out of things to do, even assuming this is the only planet worth being on.

The author of 17776 is a captivating and mesmerizing storyteller. I got into him from watching his youtube videos telling great sports stories, and despite not caring terribly much about the sports, that was enough to make me read 17776 even though I knew it was about the future of football. I was not disappointed!

This reminds me of the last season of The Good Place, where the people in paradise just became mindless zombies out of boredom and the new system they created to fix that

Final Fantasy 14 actually explored these concepts relatively recently as well. There was a world mentioned where the people achieved perfection, and having done so, they became apathetic and created a creature to kill them all.

for me, this sounds like a prequel to the plot of rain world haha creatures who can't die, so they devot themselfs in finding a way to do so

Eating a bacon egg sandwich while watching this, excited to hear the story it sounds super interesting. Edit: I have now watched the video completely, and I was correct because it was great

The metamorphosis of Prime Intellect is also a good example, allbiet quite raunchy

“A thing isn’t beautiful because it last” and this story I feel describes why this is true in a good way, thank you tale foundry for introducing another great story to us

One thing i love about Tale Foundry is how it keeps giving me new stories to read

my favourite part of 17776 is where the hubble space telescope gets brought up for 1 line for like a cutaway gag

I love pretty much everything Jon Bois does, including this. Even if you don’t care about sports or even the specific sports he’s talking about in a given video, his storytelling style is just incredible. He makes it worth it

as soon as you started talking about not having any problems, and where the conflict comes from, it reminded me of one punch man. he is so powerful nothing challenges him and he's super bored

I suddenly remembered how I got emotional about the Centennial Lightbulb being hit by a meteorite or something. And how this was devastating news for the people of this world. A light bulb that still burns today after near constant use since 1901, the idea of it still burning thousands of years later, only to finally be extinguished by a random accident, it nearly moved me to tears. It feels silly. But, to be honest, if it does go out in my lifetime, I'll get upset. It's a symbol. A quiet condemnation of planned obsolescence.

"an eternity of boredom" is like, the biggest thing I struggle with in terms of faith and afterlife, and it's rare to see that idea articulated haha

There's a short story by Jorge Luis Borges, _The Immortal,_ that summarizes this kind of immortality and the ennui it creates. But it's the final, horrifying twist, instead of the primary conflict. I also enjoyed how Ursula K. LeGuin handled the problem in her semi-utopia, _Always Coming Home:_ while the people of the Kesh society live in a mostly-idyllic post-collapse society that makes it difficult for them to understand why pre-collapse civilzations (like our own) were so self-destructive, they are still _people._ Even though inequality, oppression, and violence have been minimized, individual people still act badly and create problems for themselves and others. There is still wilful ignorance and pointless unkindness, and children still need to learn the hard way how to live a good life. I was once inspired to write a short story similar to 17776, by a silly bit of futurism written by a young Arthur C. Clarke, in the 1960s. But it's difficult to comprehend an utterly safe society, and how someone might try to create adventures for themselves in a world where even the slightest risk is automatically prevented... I'm still trying, though.

I was introduced to this story by Jacob Geller's video on it. It's a really fascinating take on the future, humanity and what we do to fill our time.

"apathys a tragedy and boredom is a crime" -bo burnham

I can imagine someone watching this in the year 17776 and wondering why their ancestors thought a life where they have everything would be miserable

Finally one of my favorite stories covered on this channel. Excellent.

As my grandma always said: 'those who do not have problems make them'. a perfect world is not achievable, the human condition does not allow it.

No surprise such a terrifyingly great story would come from a football site lol. Jocks are some of the biggest nerds out there and football is truly a sport of nerds. The fact that Nebraska is a giant gridiron is pretty dope and I feel like the author is a Husker fan. Great video as always!

I love how I instantly knew what you were talking about. I haven't thought about 17776 in a long time. You did skip out from my favorite part of future football, where one of the star quarterbacks threw themselves into a tornado to launch themselves miles ahead.

I would love, months from now if you and the talelings would do a deep dive into the "what is reality" writings of PKD

there would probably be some headlines in the news like "Largest Sandcastle Destroyed by Snowball Fight, again" or something like that

I have never understood people who say, "Immortality is a curse, with infinite time you will eventually grow bored." That really seems like the sentiment of uncreative people. People who create will always want to create more. Art is fleeting and is never finished. Writers will always want to write about new ideas, thoughts, or experiences. Others may want to read, discuss, adapt, or interpret such works. Unless the world becomes physically static, there will always be new things to depict, even if the base seems plain, the work can be complex. Paintings to paint, stories to share, foods to taste, music to hear, games to play, jokes to tell, people to meet, languages to learn, mountains to climb. Even if you have done it before, you may not have done it with those people, or in this season, or wearing that shirt. People can watch the same movie or show or read the same book or website numerous times and get something new out of it on each subsequent viewing. Even if you met and got to know one new person a day for the rest of eternity, from the currently living population alone, it would take nearly 22 million years to meet every single person on earth. Immortality is only as boring and bland as you let it be.

The 4/6 of this video reminded us about Frieren an anime about an elf with a long live that focuse on the little parts of life but is also about a journey.

I have always rebelled against the idea that we need problems to be happy. I know some people seem to believe this, and they seek drama, but I've found that a story can also be about living, learning and discovering. I have told many stories where there was no conflict, just people playing around with a teleporter, a space ship, or just getting on an airplane and traveling to a far away place. The story is made interesting by the things they see along the way. And the beauty of this is that we will never run out of things to learn. Even if civilization spreads across the universe, each individual person will always have more to learn. We don't need conflict to fascinate us we just need, contrast, novelty and humor.

I absolutely love this story so happy to see you covering it!

Someone's utopia is another man's dystopia, and someone's dystopia is another man's utopia.

Iain M Banks Culture is a good examination of a utopian society(ies).

The fact that one of my favorite goofy sports youtubers wrote an insanely insightful story on complacency and perfection actually gave me whiplash

This story seems kind of similar to the story of Rain World. Its a survival video game where nothing can die, instead they just respawn (taking the classic game mechanic and connecting it to the story) and your goal is basically to figure out a way to die permanently. As far as I can tell its also inspired by the Buddhist idea of nirvana, with one of the playable characters working as a sort of bodhisattva. Rain World and 17776 seem to take very different approaches to the idea of what to do if you cant die. I just thought I would bring it up since you didnt seem to know about it.

No problem to solve. I would be bored to tears.

This feels like the story of buckshot roulette. People so bored with life they play with it even if they can come back

one of the best youtube videos i’ve seen in a while. thank you for all the effort you put into this!

I think that everything would be better if the theme of space exploration was positively developed in this story, it would satisfy a few people

Kinda unrelated but there's plot thread in Foundation about Genetic Dynasty where each emperor is clone of Cleon The First. They are all the same people. And they are terrified that they might not be 100% authentic copies. According to one of the major religions stagnation is death of a soul. They have entire argument about Genetic Dynasty being soulless monsters. (and after watching what Emperors are capable of I can't disagree)

Hey Tale Foundry! I just stumbled onto your channel yesterday, and I really like the videos you make! New subscriber right here!! The videos are so well written and thought out! I am excited to watch all the others while I wait for a new one to come out!! I'll even check out Nebula!

This just proves that death is a gift. Without death, there is no hurry to get everything done, and procrastination grows. With no time limit, you can put off everything for as long as you like and nothing will be there as a consequence

Utopia is Dystopia, that is the catch, A Brave New World

Tale Foundry deserves a netflix show for this tbh!!

Never seen your channel before. Your intro title animation is beautiful

While not more an a minor part of the story, the harem anime ‘Heaven’s Lost Property’ has a society which is so advanced that they have everything leading to them to them all having terminal depression and they find a escape by using a avatar system to puppeteer a human copy of themselves while also blocking the majority of all their knowledge, memories and abilities while using it to live mundane lives among unevolved humans where they can experience the joy of the unknown.or at least that what I got from its lore.

One thing that also potentially undermines the utopian angle is that the lack of changeover from generation to generation will lead to a stagnation in ideas, and assuming the older folks are of a conservative mindset and already feeling hopeless, it might just lead to a kind of millennarian movement that wants to effectively bring about armaggedon. That would make a good commentary on modern Christian nationalism and its tendency, from my perspective, to advocate for policies that seemingly set up the rapture (you can't convince me otherwise that THAT particular kind of Christian are anything except members of a death cult).

I find this view a little shortsighted. There is infinite capacity for human creativity. Most people today don't really get to embrace that and create things all their lives, but with nothing else to do many if not most of us would. And even if you live forever, you can't be everywhere at once. Things will happen across the world and you'll have to pick which ones to be present for

It's been changed now, but I got super hyped when I saw 17776 in the title, glad to see this fantastic story getting some more recognition!

thank you so much for enabling me to discover such a beautiful work.

I arrived soon! Yay!

Anyone who thinks living in an actual perfect utopia would be boring have never had to go hungry, or stare down the barrel of potential homelessness.

HOW'VE I MISSED YOUR CHANNEL UNTIL NOW??? Subscribed.

This kind of reminds me of a short story I read in the 80's. Don't remember the title or the magazine it was in. It was about a drug for immortality being discovered in the gut of pigs in the late 1800's. Because everyone could live for hundreds or thousands of years, they became more cautious. There was even a Noble prize for Safety. One man had the drug given to him when he was 12 and so always appeared to be twelve. In the end, due to accidental deaths and humans being bored, he ended up being the last human on earth and was visited by an alien from another star. BTW, I have just started watching your videos. Very well done and insightful. Thanks!

I once world built a truly perfect world to make a screenplay for. But I couldn’t find a way for any story to start in such place, so to let it grow, I tainted it.

I remember reading this 10 years ago. It was still in the process of being made during that time, didn't know it finished.

I love all your videos but this one is one of my favorites now🖤🖤🖤🖤thank you for making it

This is so lovely thank you for making it.

The Longing has ended

We appreciate your insights. Keep working hard.

love how you mentioned “the giver”. amazing story!!

Great video as always! This channel is like a hidden gem. I love the production and quality you bring! A lot of fiction review stuff is too basic and kid level. This channel goes above and beyond! Thank you for your great content!

In a game I do not dare mention for the sake of spoiling it, (as for doing so will ruin its core game mechanic of progressing with knowledge.) a race of aliens unable to go back home to their planet, and deeply afraid of change and death. Create a virtual simulation of what their homeworld was like. They were successful, and their entire race, managed to become immortal, and designed to last till the end of time. They were inside the same world for the last thousand Millennia, unable to change. And no escape as their true bodies are fossils. And all of this was just a fraction of this game. If you know it. You know.

Boredom is a problem, so a world free from problems can’t have boredom.

I fucking love you guys. Easily one of my favorite channels. I had just said to myself “damn, I’m bored”, so I open KZfaq and the very first video I see is this. Fantastic.

'What matters is that the game is worth playing.' And there we have it: acceptance in the end. That's your utpois for you. I love this! This story went completely different than I thought it would and I'm all in for it.

I see here a very big plot hole. Did the author creating a story forgot about one thing, that people can do forever? A thing, that everyone has in himself and thing, that whatever you do never gets boring? I am talking about creation. Like... Can you run out of things you can make? Can you make everything in existence? The games, that one thing. But what about books and movies? What could manga look like, if each panel could be in making by one million years? I don't believe in the idea of being bored for eternity. There will be always something to do, and if not, there is always something to made, so you can do it. In my perspective, if you are bored, you are just lazy. And... You can't be lazy forever, right?

Apart from the magical memory that kingkapybara9964 has already mentioned, another thing that always breaks me from immortality stories is that people always get bored. I don't buy that, it sounds like those writers forgot what it was like when they were children. Children (the ones I'm thinking of anyway) don't yet have a concept of mortality, and yet the last thing they do is get bored. They explore where they are at, they try new things, they find friends to play pretend, there is always something that a kid wants to do. Climbing to the tallest tree branch isn't cool for a kid because it is "death defying", its cool because it is difficult. sticking a fork (or scissors in my case) into a wall socket isn't fun because you may get hurt, all they need is to wonder "what would happen if". Same goes for immortal and unhurting humans. I'm a programmer who enjoys game design and music composition. With each of those alone I already have neverending fun, there's always something I could try in the computer, some new setup or a project that I want to re-implement myself just because I wanna get how it works. Throw in game design and there are 5 games that I now have in my backlog, and as soon as I start to expand on one idea, it often branches into 2 or more confliciting ways to make the game, both of which could be fun, but I have to choose one for the sake of consistency. If I'm immortal, I can just put the other on my backlog and get to it when I get to it. Music is a similar thing, with the added bonus that I'd also like to experiment with music and sound effects being generated from scratch by a program, not done in advance. So even if you assumed the magic memory that doesn't let me forget anything ever again, I will still have hobbies to fill out the rest of my days alone, and company would only make it better as me and friends ping-pong art ideas and challenge each other's works. Imagine then if, after a thousand years since i last worked on the game "rocket jump", I decided to work on one of the variants and I had to relearn all the decisions I made, and play around with the same concepts, but with a clearer vision from the start and a companion project from the get-go. So allow me skepticism and to say no, humanity would not get bored. We would just go back to the wonder of experimentation and non malicious challenges of children, with added maturity

I remember finding this, and not realizing I was sitting down for a novel, lost interest after some point, but it was fascinating, and something that never left my mind as something I'd go back to at some point

The problem with boredom is that brains go crazy after a while in that state and start creating problems on their own whether life is good or not. Brains are irrational and rational at the same time when not pressured and pressured at the same time.

I love this assumption. Our caveman ancestors had one worry in life, food! I bet they imagined "when we don't have to worry about food anymore then all our problems will be solved." But here we are. Food is no longer a worry, in fact some of us have too much of it, yet we are just as stressed and busy as we ever were because we had to create economies, money and jobs to provide the population with things like food. Solving problems inherently creates more problems. We will always have things to worry about.

"there is only this, forever". Welcome to life, buddy. It's always the same. Eternal life is no more intimidating or terrifying than life now. You'll wake up, go to work, work, come home, go to sleep, rinse repeat.

I just discovered 17776 a few months ago, its amazing, I'm so glad you guys covered this

I like to think that in a utopia, we wouldn't be too bored thanks to the tried and true human practices of storytelling and artistic expression. Also, like in the story, we'd focus more on the small pleasures of life, as well as on spending more quality time with our friends and family. That's my perfect future... Then again, I'm very optimistic, so maybe we're doomed, lol. Still, there's always hope.❤ Edit: Also, surely hobbies and other cool stuff would still be around, so there's that!