not to dismiss the positive side effects, but there are also some important negative side effects: 1) more moment of inertia means you need better safety systems, because the danger scales similar to moment of inertia. This will be a big problem, especially when trying to find venues that would host wintergatan + machine 2) more moment of inertia means more vibrations if the flywheel is not running perfectly true. Especially on tour, big mechanical things get bumped and slightly deformend, so this is something that will only truly be visible after some time. Those vibrations are especially dangerous for shows outside of full time music halls with a solid floor. Festivals/mobile stages build their stage surface out of stagedecks/scaffholding, that is very durable for heavy compression loads, but suseptible to vibrations/dynamic loads. I think it is important to have these things in mind when designing, because with the current plan, it looks like you are building a machine that might be able to play music, but can never leave your show, because no music venue can/wants to handle it

Balancing a flywheel is very important. Balancing a flywheel every time you take it apart to transport it might be impractical.

i just love how you are just casually sliding in and out of sanity throughout this project

Fiancee: "So it's steampunk" . Martin, I kid you not, less than one second later: "NOT STEAMPUNK" HAHAHAHA

Please put a shield on this wheel! Either into the wheel or better - a transparent wall on both sides. Industrial age had a lot of people with fractional numbers of limbs excactly because of these huge flywheels...

You gotta find one buff dude to take on tour who starts pumping half an hour early to get the huge flywheel up to speed before the concert.

It also becomes increasingly more dangerous to work around... if unprotected.

In 5 years Martin is going to just convert a real steam engine tractor into a moving marble machine. Touring on its own.

As someone who works with those old machines (I work with the Rough & Tumble Engineers Museum), assembly and balancing of these flywheels is a time consuming and delicate process. We are also mounting them in very stable concrete and steel foundations. There is a reason that the engines on more unstable platforms, such as traction engines and tractors, are much smaller. The smaller flywheels move at faster RPMs to make up for the inertia. (For example our largest stationary engine has a eight ton 12' flywheel that would operate at 75 RPM whereas our Traction Engines have 40"-50" flywheels that run around 200-250 RPM)

Previous video's comments : "a one meter flywheel could be a safety hazard" This week's Martin : "so anyway, here's a 2 meters flywheel"

Hey Martin, just a few thoughts connected to risk management here: 1- The more inertia, the easier your leg will be cut if going into the spinning wheel, build it safe! :P 2- You should have backup plans for if the giant wheel (or whatever is driving it) fails during the world tour, because it will be complex enough to transport one of those. For example, have an electrical engine available as a last resort, paired with a video projector projecting a loop of the big fly wheel spinning in the back. 3- Make sure that the flywheel can be safely mounted/dismounted in different pieces to ease transportation (keyword being "safely" here, you don't want a piece of the flywheel to fly off into the crowd)

Not to add to all the other comments saying similar things, but: - an unbalanced flywheel causes vibrations - a bigger unbalanced flywheel causes even bigger vibrations - having the flywheel be constructed from sections bolted together creates bigger risks in balancing because there is always an opportunity for play in the boltholes / slightly lighter or heavier nuts & bolts / inconsistent assembly - vibrations are great at causing bolts to work loose, so you'll need to be really sure that they are tight - if bolts come loose, you get an even more unbalanced flywheel, so you could get an exponential loosening of bolts Additionally: - a flywheel frame of that size should be anchored to the stage (which few venues will be willing to arrange) - if the flywheel is unbalanced for just one gig you could deform the axle, meaning it could be impossible to balance again - obviously, vibrations from the flywheel could easily also damage or partially disassemble the frame that holds it over time

This brings up an issue that we talked about back in the governor video. Because ithe flywheel has a large moment, it wants to keep spinning at the same speed. which it means it is hard for the governor to regulate its speed. the effectiveness of the governor goes away and the "tightness" is controlled entirely with the flywheel's moment. when connecting it so the governor as just an "overspeed" governor (like the last one designed) the brakes will need to be very powerful to restrict the speed of a large flywheel once it gets to speed. on the other side the power input to the flywheel will need to be very strong to keep it up to speed and work against the governor when the output energy fluctuates. it is like a linear DC electric power supply. You cant put a huge capacitor on a small transformer, it can't charge the filter capacitor fast enough to keep it a constant voltage when the load fluctuates. The flywheel needs to be matched to the input energy available. so If you want a large flywheel (I get it it looks cool!) your Huygens drive weight will need an equally heavy weight. which will make it very hard to lift. Or you can make a large flywheel that is lighter (still looks cool). I would look carefully into the potential load, and especially its fluctuations (Frequency and amplitude) and size the flywheel for the best efficiency of the H-Drive and governor.

"drummer, two musicians, bass player" correct! :)

5:40 "Which means..." Bigger flywheel gets the girls, everytime

1:11 No, speed influences angular momentum, not moment of inertia (but it is a related concept, though).

It's really super cool, but you might wanna make the flywheel a fair amount lighter than it could be for safety reasons. Large rotating objects have gotten loose and killed before. And they will kill again.

I'm starting to worry about the weight and logistics being very exclusionary of venues. That flywheel is likely to exceed the weight capacity of a lot of stages, and you're likely going to need a forklift for assembly, which is also something not a lot of venues can support, at least comparatively.

I hope you cover the flywheels with acrylic because two people standing in front of the big one and paddling can easily cause a terrible accident

I think I commented a while back that you should make the flywheel as large as you can, when you were experimenting with flywheels. So glad that you realized this was the way to go ! Bigger flywheel means, for the same moment of inertia, lower rotation speed, which means less vibrations.

that 2.5m wheel didn't look big until you brought it into frame

Now we get to learn about floor loading and foundations.

MVP = minimum viable product. The bare-bone functionality you need the product to work

This is the Beginning of the End for the MM3. The Nail in the Coffin where Martin AGAIN is starting to FEEL himself through the project instead of making a minimum viable product. I was on board when he went modular but now its seems to be used used as an excuse to baloon every Component of the MM3 into its own impossibly large Project.

I worked for the leading cable car manufacturer and they had similar problems with transporting the huge cable wheels in the station so they began to split them in to 4 parts so they fit in to standard shipping containers. Maybe this could be a source of inspiration and a deeper look into the design they came up with would be worth it.

"drummer, 2 musicians, and bassist", shots fired lol

I really like that with this design is less martin+machine and a band. Good move to be two in the middle!! Less focus on you and more focus on the machine

I love that I've seen you go from form is king to function is king and now finding a path where both are important. I look forward to seeing you build the new machine!

So around 8 years ago you had built the first Marble machine, it worked, you played music with it. After that for the last 8 years nothing really happened. No new music came out, you moved twice(?) in that time (did not see as far as I could tell any "new" studio tour or if there is any), there was back in the days some talking about some CNC skills and machinery... but in the last coupe of month/years nothing really happened. I mean the actual newest version of the marble machine must at least be named "marble machine project 2024" but it seem not much in common with the old idea of a portable music box machine. I could not even imagine how expensive concert tickets would be, because of the enormous work and hours before a concert to screw together the hundreds of parts until that instrument would only work. So, when will we see some new music, studio tour, timeline when there would be anything other then building tiny parts and throwing them away after some month, etc. ?

I bet Martin’s starting to understand that such “planning” phase is actually the most fun and most interesting part of such a project.

Cycle of Martin: Overcomplicate Learn a new mechanic Change Everything - Repeat

Having more moment of inertia also means that its harder to change the tempo while playing. This is something to consider since you also want to keep the machine dynamic.

I love this video. also, the bigger, the slower it needs to spin, the balancing becomes less of an issue, so disassembly is a good option

Remember that video 8 months ago where you did careful testing and determined that using the gravity drive with a small flywheel resulted in way tighter music than the large flywheel? And don't forget that the larger the flywheel, the harder it is to control the tempo, because it takes a long time for the wheel to respond if you're, say, playing too slow and push harder to "catch up". Because of the slow response time, it's easy to overcompensate, and wind up too fast...

You could power the machine with the harnessed hype of the audience turned into kinetic energy lol.

I'm glad to see a short video concentrated on a specific subject. You even included a small demonstration of moment of intertia. I can see that you are still keen on keeping up the quality on your videos even while being very busy planning this project!

I remember watching him make that flywheel in the german workshop and that size alone made me scared. A bigger flywheel would be lethal, not only to the performers, but to the audience as well!! I'm not trying to dissuade from your ideas, but this one is really scary

It's so interesting to see the evolution of the machine generations, great visual.

I love that everyone in the comments immediately went “oh boy, that’s gonna kill someone at the slightest malfunction!”

…. I’ve been watching for several years. After a brief hiatus, I came back to see this - - it’s completely completely different from your marvel machine :-)

Ohhh... i love that!!! No do it! That is sooo fitting! It's all we were looking forward to - it sets the focus - it's design - it's function - it's art!

Good to see the wheel turning!

Love it. Can’t wait to see a prototype.

Instead of continuing to build the machine, Martin turned into a physics teacher…

you should have a pedal station where people from the audience can provide power!

Welcome to the new era, MarblePunk!

I cant wait to see the final machine.

Finally large enough to paint the Vitruvian Man on. Exquisite.

So not a fast bread slicer but a slow guillotine. Ok.

Awesome color correction man!

I like it. Congrats

It looks cool but it also made my anxiety skyrocket because if someone gets too close and gets something tangled in the wheel it feels like an accident hazard

great to be subscribed! Its inspiring to me as an artisan of several media. 🦌❤️👍

This is starting to feel more real than the other machines did and its not even being built yet

I love the idea of a huge wheel as the center piece for the machine! Looks so cool. It also gives me another opertunity to push my "Saft first" agenda and sugest you may want to encase it in some kind of clear perspex box (or something stronger like bulletproof glass xD) to make sure no one gets any limbs accidentally caught in it, and everyone is protected from catastrophic failier. Especially now it's even bigger with even more inertia!! Machines were one of the number one killers in work place deaths at the time of the industrial revolution. ;)

Huge fan of the industrial revolution direction! That definitely excites me about the project.

The closer this project gets to being "heavy machinery," the more nervous I get about it operating in a concert (i.e. alcohol-heavy) environment. I have faith that you'll go above and beyond and do everything as safely as possible, but I'm glad I'm not responsible for such a beast in such a tumultuous environment.

7:23 That's called Clockpunk, one of the big four subgenres of punk. Machines with potential energy, instead of heat energy. (Steam, Clock, Diesel and Cyber are the most known, yet others exist.)

Love the new Design. A big flywheel is exactly what you need. But keep in mind that the precision will not be very good. This means you have to expect a lot of Vibrations from the wheel. I would therefore recommend to mount it on a separate frame and drive it only with belts. This should protect the rest of the machine. Lg

The large moment of inertia must come from somewhere. Currently the only energy input is from the pedals and you must calculate how much both power and energy it requires to keep this going for a whole show. Then answer the question if it is reasonable for you (and perhaps Evelina) to provide that during a whole show. I think that some form of electrical motor assist will be necessary, not unlike how electrical bicycles work.

This makes me think of the old steam engines of the london bridge. It was impressive to see them in person, and they had nothing to do with steampunk, just beautifull industrial machinery. If Martin can combine that style with his own touch, it could work for me.

The doubters are only working with numbers, but Martin, you? you are working with dreams! let the dreampunk vision carry the project!!!

Seeing the comments care of martin safety makes me feel relieved.

Two things, first, orange blocks appear to be dangerous. Second, there isn’t a health and safety guy anywhere that will allow a 2 meter rotating flywheel in a public venue. The only way you could do it would be with an ultra light weight fake flywheel moving at relatively slow speed

Next tour name: Wintergatan’s Marble Revolution

Yes! Bigger is better! I'll be interested to see how tight the music will be with the universal joints or gears, allowing you to rotate the flywheel.

Hi Martin! I'm not sure you'll ever see this comment, but since you got back to sketchking, I kept thinking for weeks about leavers machine as an inspiration for your machine. Leavers machine were used especially in the city of Calais in France, and used to create lace. What reminded me of your machine is the Jacquard system, used to create the motives : it looks like a barrel organ, and for having seen it in action, it's a wonderful piece of industrial revolution, whichi perfectly plays the sheets to produce a beautiful piece of art.

Man, with the addition of the gigantic on-stage flywheel, this whole project is starting to give me major Dethklok concert vibes.

@Wintergaton Martin have you considered using a raked stage? A stage where the back is higher in elevation than the front. Love the progress

I feel like we have people walking on Mars before this machine is finished 😅

You have to move the two other sections further out. That just means longer drive shafts, which is easy as pie. Having more space in the middle will open up the "vanity view" for a larger audience and give you more options for marble flows and scene shenanigans.

Nice!

You argue that the bigger the fly wheel, the better for the sound and how tight it is. There has to be diminishing returns and at some point, some other components will induce some timing errors that will render any gains from a bigger flywheel meaningless. Yes, it is super cool and that is probably a good enough reason to do it. But how sure are you that 2.5 meters will produce measurably tighter music versus 2 meters, or 1.5 meters etc?

This is getting more amazing each video you release. I'm so hyped

Your music stings remind me of the commercial breaks for the anime BECK. Wicked sick.

It's starting to look like a W (for Wintergatan) in the center of the machine with the angle of those conveyor belts.

This is great.

YAY! Super happy for you! So glad you've got a big inspiration! If I may humbly request: I'm in love with the color of the MM1. And that's the color that a quarter billion viewers are used to seeing. I totally support your decision to go with an industrial evolution theme, but please don't lose one of most eye-catching aspects of the MM1 in the process. I'd be sad if you ditched the plywood look entirely in favor of an all-steel look. Keep chasing your dream! :)

MARTIN IS THE HEART OF THE MARBLE MACHINE

There is no way that any music venue is going to allow you to use this, and there's no way that insurance is going to cover it.

pictures of this machine are gonna look so cool once it's in concert

Giant flywheel? Occupational health and safety has entered the chat

The biggest assumption that Martin is making that I am worried about now is that it will be possible to play music the way he wants to while simultaneously pedaling that giant machine. I'm glad that he at least somewhat addressed the large power requirements. However, I know from personal experience testing just this thing that the ability to focus on different tasks while maintaining a somewhat constant power output is incredibly demanding and difficult. I hope that Martin doesn't become a victim of task saturation in the future!

All Martin has to do is never mention any safety precautions for the fly wheel and he will triple his comments per video. 😂

Putting LEDs on the big wheel could create really cool graphic effects as the Fly wheel spins !

I’m not going to lie, the smaller machine frame really made the machine cute and interesting, more personable. But as long as it becomes something that tours, it doesn’t really matter

Dreampunk I LOVE IT so much!!

You have to think about safety as well. With a big flywheel you can store a lot of energy. If something fails that energy will go somewhere. There might already regulations around this that you HAVE to follow.

Machine Designer for 12 years here... this is the awesome shit, biggest wheel is best wheel, it's functional based on the design goals. Dooo iiiiit. Not to mention more mass is less sensitive to dynamic loading, you can ignore flex on the system, form and function from one decision ftw

best Idea

I hope you are talking to your band about all these changes. This new design is really going to change the band dynamics.

Notice how the governors of all those industrial machines are also all mounted high and in evidence, I think this should also be possible (and very nice to see!!) on this new MM configuration

If you want a large flywheel, what if you make something purely aesthetic? As others have pointed out, an actual functional gigantic flywheel poses several problems for venues (mechanical capability) and safety (loss of limbs). It could still communicate what the machine is doing, but since it's aesthetic you could e.g. make it safer and less prone to the venue issues because it only has to function as an art/heart piece? It *does* still come from function even if it's ultimately just a prop. But it won't kill people or limit your venue selection on tour.

TOTALLY will watch this when not in a public place cuz no one likes noise but keep on keeping on in the guess who rockin the tunes; Rockingon Amazing Artist AAA Love what Y OU !!!!DO!!!

Martin is going to stumble backwards during one of his future shows and get decapitated by his giant spinning flywheel. Now that's steampunk!!!

To me, "industrial revolution" screams to me "horrendous industrial accidents". Imbalance in the wheel (which is significantly exacerbated by taking it apart every time), huge moving parts, extreme pinch points, all one step away from the performer. Plus, as you were touting, there is a lot of momentum there, so you can't stop it quickly enough if something goes wrong. Get a sleeve caught in that and it will tear your arm off. Don't balance it perfectly and it will likely shake itself apart and throw heavy pieces of metal around. I suppose it would make the show memorable, though.

6:20 I had to LOL when Martin added the second person to be there to help power/drive the machine. It reminded me of the movie Pacific Rim where paired pilots were needed to operate the machine. This big machine has a lot of mass to move. It is going to need more than one person to power it.

I agree to make the flywheel as big as practically possible... My pessimistic site foresees that it'll be a hell to (statically and dynamically) balance it after assembly. So the biggest one without assembling might still be the practical solution.

to quote Marvin: Incredible... it's even worse than I thought it would be. Few things that are missing: It's not the size but the linear speed that matters most - how you get there is up to you, spin wheel faster or build and carry bigger wheel with you. On many machines shown in thet video the governor is connected to valve assembly not brake. you need the I term from PID to be able to keep constant speed with variable load. Translated: governor with brake will not be able to keep constant speed.

Thinking that flywheel will take quite a long time to get up to speed, like maybe 30 minutes. The spin-up with a spotlight on the wheel would make a great dramatic intro to the show before the band comes on stage. Also, keep it spinning the entire show, just decouple it and let it spin while changing the songs.