What Is the Difference between a Keto Diet and Ketogenic Therapy?

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What Is the Difference between a Keto Diet and Ketogenic Therapy? - With Dr. Bret Scher

Рет қаралды 14,953

Metabolic Mind

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 86

@24carrotgold8 5 ай бұрын

My oncologist was not supportive. Fortunately I learned how to change my diet (carnivore), measure glucose and ketones daily, fast 3 days before and 2 days after chemo/Keytruda infusions and test and rebuild my blood afterwards. After my initial diagnosis the nurse alerted me he prescribes suicide drugs when approaching death 🤪. They were not happy for me when I RESOLVED ALL metastasized tumors and CT scans confirmed cancer free from stage 3 endometrial cancer. You do not need a team. You need information, testing results, and discipline!

@cloudcloud490 5 ай бұрын

24 karat gold, That is encouraging to hear! I just finished seven rounds of chemo carboplatin etc. I am now just taking key Truda I’m doing keto but I’m still not yet in ketosis. I have not fasted yet because my weight is so low. Is there a way that you overcome this?

@kimberlyf4888 5 ай бұрын

Exactly. He has to (for liability reasons) state over and over that you need a care team and your doctor on board. While that may be helpful for people and get better outcomes, nothing is stopping anyone from eating in this manner. My 81 year old mom, who has suffered from a lifetime of issues (arthritis, benign tumors, heart disease, lupus) has gone keto/carnivore and is weaning herself off meds and not even telling her doctor. Every time she goes in for a check up he tells her how well she's doing. She's likes him, he's smart and kind - but she's afraid he's too old school and would fire her if he knew and she wants him as her doctor as she nears end of life.

@kimberlyf4888 5 ай бұрын

Also, I looked at the handout for your doctor. While it argues the case for ketogenic therapy, it does not tell your doctor how to begin the therapy. A doctor agains keto is not going to read this and have any idea what exactly to do. But, the knowledge is out there if you seek for yourself.

@sho-na 5 ай бұрын

@@kimberlyf4888Your mum sounds like she is absolutely wonderful! May she enjoy the best of love, health and happiness.

@24carrotgold8 5 ай бұрын

@@cloudcloud490 If you eat lots of sardines it will put you into ketosis quickly. Do not eat any carbs at all or you defeat the purpose of ketosis. If you are in ketosis, you probably won't need the nausea pills or have digestive issues. Your doctor WILL NOT help you. You must measure everything daily. Make sure you have your thyroid tested. Keytruda destroys thyroid function and you will need to see an endocrinologist for medication. Carboplatin is delivered in a glucose solution, so you must be fasted before and after. Do not take dexmethazone pills it raises glucose.

@mariaberry6874 5 ай бұрын

Aha ! I have been Keto for 2 yrs Inc carnivore for 6 months. I lost weight and noticed various improvement but my mental health kept relapsing. I never achieved ketones over 0.5. When I fasted (sardine fast) my Ketones rose. By day 3 I was over 3.0. Insomnia, anxiety, panic disorder, depression and despair are all gone. I measure and maintain my level over 1.0. For me higher fat, shorter eating windows and not too much protein, is what works so far. I do miss some food BUT never as much as I enjoy waking without despair. I so hope this lasts 💕🙏

@metabolicmind 5 ай бұрын

Congratulations on your success!

@AndreasFroehlich1985 3 ай бұрын

🎉❤😊

@theskyehiker 5 ай бұрын

Good information however, I do wonder how folks who need a team like this would realistically find one. I did go on the website and the closest professional to me is 400 miles away. I don’t say this as a criticism but just a statement of fact. Fortunately I’m not in a situation where this is needed but if I were, I’d be SOL. Dr Georgia Ede is doing a great service in trying to increase the volume of professionals that could be available to folks but so much more is needed.

@metabolicmind 5 ай бұрын

Yes, unfortunately, there is still a shortage of clinicians trained in metabolic treatments for mental illness. We know how hard this can make the prospect of adopting these therapies seem. For those who do not have a metabolic psychiatry professional nearby, one option is to work with your own care team. Here is a link to a handout you can take to them: www.metabolicmind.org/families-and-peers#drtalk

@axelkolle9994 4 ай бұрын

@@metabolicmind Thank you for that link. I do have to concur with OP though. SOOL for most of us if we need support

@Rhombohedral 5 ай бұрын

Here in The Netherlands there zero health care professionals guiding ketogenic therapy. ergo I do a keto diet without those that name themselves healthcare professionals. When I mention it, the disgust is clearly visible just before i dump them from not using their "services"

@thomashandyside5084 5 ай бұрын

Same in Canada. Want to get a dirty look or see your doctor’s eyes roll? Tell them that you eat a low carb diet. It’s actually pitiful.

@tomthetavernman 4 ай бұрын

Same in England my friends. No curiosity in the NHS doctors.

@Rhombohedral 4 ай бұрын

@@tomthetavernman here they get pissed and angry.. specially you wanting control over the therapy..I had one telling me I cant handle that...🕳

@generalbystander1631 5 ай бұрын

Team? Whats that? Have you been to a doctor in the last 15 years? the team concept is no where to be found anywhere in medicine for regular, everyday people.except maybe in an operating suite. That aside, love your channel. Keep up the important work.

@shieh.4743 5 ай бұрын

This is soooo important because my body does not want to stay in ketosis (or so it seems). I must fast for a period of time to stay in ketosis - anything more than 55-60grams of protein AND/OR more than 10grams of total carbs throws me out of ketosis. It is very frustrating, but there it is.

@dianechilds1857 5 ай бұрын

Yes. Me too. Test your fasting insulin. Mine is high but it is coming down slowly. As it does, my ketones and blood glucose get better and mood improves. I also had to stop all carbs for several months. Now eat one cup of low carb veggies. Very slow progress but worth it

@JoyfulArtist 5 ай бұрын

@@dianechilds1857thanks. That's encouraging. I'm working my way to carnivore as an elimination diet. Tired if fighting with carbs

@karenohanlon4183 5 ай бұрын

Here in the UK there is no keto teams. The health care is broken. If you have the keto sticks and they show you are in ketosis then that's about as close as you will get to knowing . If you lose weight and feel better that too is an indication. I am afraid one has to rely on oneself here and listen to our bodies and mind.

@thewrightoknow 5 ай бұрын

I totally agree with you. My Dr in the UK, encouraged me not to keto or carnivore diet. I have lost 6 stone and no more meds for type 2 diabetes. Our system is totally beyond repair. We need to take care of our selves!

@janejewell3892 5 ай бұрын

Keto sticks? Are you referring to urine tests? They are very unreliable as they also respond to dehydration and alcohol! Get a blood tester like ketomojo to test your BHB levels in your blood. That's is the most accurate way to test your level of ketosis.

@lucyburr5516 5 ай бұрын

Dr. David Unwin advocates a low fat diet. He practices at Norwood NHS Surgery in Southport near Liverpool.

@mds1325 4 ай бұрын

Dr. Bret a wonderful job of sorting things out. So glad to see this new initiative and excited to follow how you Georgia and the gang progress. Best of luck. Mel

@TheBeana71 5 ай бұрын

The problem with trying ketogenic therapy with a healthcare provider is that precious few people have access to such providers. The vast majority are at best ignorant of, and at worst actively hostile to, keto. I know you have to say that for liability purposes, and in a perfect world it would be true. But at the moment, it's just infuriating.

@1timbarrett 5 ай бұрын

I recently consulted a GP/PCP in my own country who was totally unfamiliar with Keto but intrigued. Her interest picked up when she twigged that it might (might) be the answer to her own accumulating belly fat…! 😮 😂😢

@jan_ellison_baszucki 5 ай бұрын

I hear you. We'll think about another video to acknowledge this very real frustration and maybe come up with a few ideas for work-arounds.

@armaperez78 5 ай бұрын

Loving your channel, thank you!

@CarnivoreToday 5 ай бұрын

Great video Dr. Scher! Very concise and informative...love it!

@1timbarrett 5 ай бұрын

I love it that you do not waste time denigrating ANYONE! 👍 👏 😘

@janarleth9811 5 ай бұрын

If I brought information from KZfaq to an MD, especially a psychiatrist, they would have NO regard for it. Maybe someone should start a channel on how to heal themselves since we can't get anything but the usual crappy care with the usual crappy medications in the US. Urging me to work with a doctor on new therapies is ignoring how humiliating it is to be dismissed by an MD. Do you see the disconnect? Maybe you need to educate MDs before taking this to KZfaq? Regardless, I can design my own ketogenic without a bleeping MD to watch over me! I can type too!

@metabolicmind 5 ай бұрын

We understand your frustration completely. We acknowledge the lack of qualified clinicians to help with ketogenic therapy. We are working toward systemic change and have been supporting clinician training- something we will continue and scale as much as possible. In the meantime, there is a directory where you can see clinicians who are trained. We hope to see this list continue to grow exponentially! www.diagnosisdiet.com/directory

@Kobe29261 3 ай бұрын

Even this well meaning docor is terrified of the medical system and it IS a system; no doubt it has its heroes but unfortuantnely most of its agents are pricesly that agents of a corrupt at worst and unreliable at best ecosystem. Godspeed to you!

@Croatlik 4 ай бұрын

Excellent explanation.

@CarnivoreScott 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for posting this Dr. Scher. New follower coming over from your presentation at #CoSci.

@metabolicmind 4 ай бұрын

Welcome! We hope you enjoyed the #CoSci presentation.

@jangordon6540 2 ай бұрын

Sadly there are only a few medical professionals who support this and fewer who are knowledgeable enough to manage it.

@csmrfx 5 ай бұрын

Go Brett! Go Brett! 👏I believe most diabetics can achieve ketogenic state, and while it won't stop autoimmune or hereditary conditions, it will make your life totally easier. Even just using blood glucose meter helps to learn if ketogenic state is happening. Ketogenic definately needs a systematic approach, and by quantifying biometrics this is easy. Pittfalls include that urine ketone content may not change that much in some individuals, so BG metrics seems more reliable. Ketogenic worked brilliant for me, and I see it as absolutely marvelous therapy and lifestyle. As evident after my MD's diagnosis of remission. ❔Brett, can you make videos about retinal health and blood glucose? I find this is the major effect of high blood glucose, in lit/stats. As I read related statistics, even "guideline managed" diabetes can ruin your retina, if your HbA1c is not _strictly_ under * 7 % / 42 mmol/mol. A tragic and surprisingly quick loss of retina is common among diabetics, seemingly preventable.

@pabeader1941 5 ай бұрын

Quick answer. More fat for theropy.

@cassieoz1702 5 ай бұрын

I've generally seen the term Therapeutic Ketogenic Diet used. The diagnosisdiet/directory is pretty useless outside North America (despite implying otherwise). The few professionals offered are all covering the easy stuff, low hanging fruit and NOT the stricter therapeutic stuff.

@metabolicmind 5 ай бұрын

We understand your frustration. As this is an emerging field, it will take time to have more trained clinicians globally. As a nonprofit organization, we are doing our best to create helpful resources and push for systemic change.

@cassieoz1702 5 ай бұрын

@metabolicmind I'm a retired MD with stage 4 cancer and I've been keto for 5 years, so i understand the basics, but need 'keto's big brother'. All I really need is access to one of the (very few) dieticians who understands approaches used in epilepsy to give me hints on how to apply it. There are heaps of dieticians using keto for T2D but nothing else.

@corydory67 4 ай бұрын

@@cassieoz1702 Contact the Charlie Foundation for tips on the protocol for epilepsy. If you don't have a blood ketone meter and a glucose monitor, get those. Generally you want to calculate your gki, which is your glucose ketone index. To do this you divide your glucose by 18 (if you are using us measurements mg/dl), then divide by your blood ketone number. You want your gki less than 2, although less than 1 is even better. This can be difficult to maintain and may take some intermittent fasting to get into. Also you may need to increase your fat and limit your protein. The Charlie Foundation recommends 4 grams of fat to 1 gram of carbs and protein combined for epilepsy. You may not have to be that strict, so measure to see how your body reacts! Good luck!

@lexamdelac28 5 ай бұрын

How long should one give ketogenic therapies a try for improving their mental health symptoms? If it doesn't work in that time frame, is it worth trying the carnivore diet (still technically keto they say but stricter?)

@pabeader1941 5 ай бұрын

Do it for life.

@jan_ellison_baszucki 5 ай бұрын

Georgia Ede addresses this question in her content and her book. Generally, metabolic psychiatrists suggest 3-4 months, and then Dr. Ede would then suggest trying carnivore, I believe.

@lexamdelac28 5 ай бұрын

Thank you so much, Jan! I love seeing you comment. And I will have to check out her book - I just placed a hold at my local library@@jan_ellison_baszucki

@stu9776 23 сағат бұрын

Good to see (some) medical professionals finally recognizing what they have been missing regarding keto, but I find it somewhat disingenuous to change some words (keto therapy vs. keto diet, etc.) and then pretend you are offering a new solution.

@metabolicmind 23 сағат бұрын

Sorry you feel that way. And sorry if our point didn't come across well enough in the video. Our main point is that anyone can do a ketogenic diet and see how it can help them. But when using a keto diet as part of ketogenic therapy, the level of ketones matters, monitoring symptoms and medications matters, and adjusting other lifestyle interventions to affect ketone levels matters. None of these are necessary when simply following a ketogenic diet. We feel it's essential for people to recognize that if they want to treat a medical condition with ketosis, it's more than just following a diet. We hope that perspective helps.

@anamariafernandezpabon822 5 ай бұрын

Great info! Is Keto good for Cerebellum Atrophy? Thanks!

@9879SigmundS Ай бұрын

I do keto (actually carnivore) and fast for better mental and physical health. Now, what's the difference again?

@craigdixon2062 5 ай бұрын

Ketogenic therapy probably involves a doctor prescribing a diet that actually induces ketosis. A keto diet is used by most as an excuse to eat an excess of fatty junk foods.

@joeberrouard3743 5 ай бұрын

Most people do keto just so they can eat fatty junk food? That’s quite a statement.

@axelkolle9994 4 ай бұрын

Knowing the way cravings sneak up on you I have to concur.

@anankedos Ай бұрын

Ketogenic diet means you can’t eat junk food, because all junk food is loaded with carbs. I don’t eat anything on keto that comes out of a bag. It is worth giving up carbs if you want to treat arthritis and other inflammatory disorders.

@testforall555 5 ай бұрын

Thank you very much. If I may ask, does sweeteners interfere with developing ketosis or do I need to still get that sugary feeling and cannot or not able at all to stay away from it. Does that mean not fully will get this continuous ketsis state? (Mohamed)

@metabolicmind 5 ай бұрын

Good question. It may depend on the sweetener. Sucralose can "kick" some people out of ketosis. In general, allulose, erythritol and monk fruit tend to be better. But that's the beauty of measuring ketones as each person can determine for themselves how they respond. Hope that helps!

@testforall555 5 ай бұрын

@@metabolicmind Thank you very much. My big sole problem is that sugary taste. What an addiction! Never ever able to stay away from it.

@metabolicmind 5 ай бұрын

That's a very important point! For some, non-caloric sweeteners can serve the role of satisfying their sweet tooth. For others, it can feed an addiction that is very difficult to stop. It's so important to know which camp you are in!

@user-AGLaki 5 ай бұрын

Pardon me, but u did not say clearly that with ketogenic therapy one must get into nutritional ketosis and stay in nutritional ketosis and that blood glucose and blood ketones have to be measured every day with monitors to show that one is staying in nutritional ketosis. And then after a while, say 90 days, one sees what the health outcomes might be.

@zebscircle 5 ай бұрын

❤❤❤

@Man-u-flex 4 ай бұрын

So if it’s for mental health ketones have to be at least 1.0 ketone levels?

@metabolicmind 4 ай бұрын

That may vary from person to person. Dr Campbell did a study that suggested above 2 may be more beneficial. Dr. Palmer has stated his goal is usually around 1.5. And others have noted benefits even below 1.0. So the key is to work with a professional to help decide the target for each individual, and be willing to adjust as needed based on personal experience.

@cjturner2036 4 ай бұрын

Why do I hear a faint "ka-ching" in the background?

@mockturtle1402 5 ай бұрын

Dr Bret, did you pick that thumbnail? Pucker up!

@spacecookie10 4 ай бұрын

Is there something i can show my psychiatrierst to give him a touch with this kind of research/treatment?

@metabolicmind 4 ай бұрын

You can start with this video that covers the recently published trial out of Stanford. We hope that helps! kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bJyEf6pkvp28gJc.html

@bplusAgain 5 ай бұрын

It takes big money to work with trained professionals if you can find one, so the most helpful thing would be getting this approved by insurance. Then I predict finding one will be W A Y Easier! ;-))

@jan_ellison_baszucki 5 ай бұрын

Yes, we agree!

@christopherdooley5774 Ай бұрын

This guy pretends there are medical professionals who will support Keto. That's BS. Most of us are on our own.

@metabolicmind Ай бұрын

Here are a few links that may help find a keto healthcare professional. We hope they help! www.dietdoctor.com/new-and-improved-find-a-doctor-page www.diagnosisdiet.com/directory thesmhp.org/directory/

@axelkolle9994 4 ай бұрын

Informative, but sadly I have to say then I come to the conclusion that ketogenic therapy has no place even in civilised Africa. The depth of expertise is not there. Added in the bias for the old ways of doing things... (we are always 10 years behind or more.) Again, though, thank you for clearing up a lot of misconceptions.