His input was such a joke. It was like he was giving actual solid advice for a second and then it just went downhill so fast. Seems like he cared more about making something unique rather than readable.

😂👌

@@radiorain5665 I mean to be fair it can be eye catching. Most often than not posters like these are supposed to catch the attention of a person passing by. I can see it in some cases working well. But then again on a magazine page it wouldn't work that well imo.

YES, my thoughts exactly.

THANK YOU haha

yeah. I hear you. I think, in some instances, it's okay for headlines to push the edge a little. it wasn't fully resolved on the live stream.

I think it would have helped with different opacities, and some spacing between the characters to separate them a little more. Would make it easier to recognize the two different words.

I agree, this seems a little over the edge. What this should be is at least present the corrected version of the design in the end of the video.

As someone who likes to read and respects people with reading difdiculties I hate it whenever some smart jerk designer overlaps and makes something illegible

I don't like when it's overlap like that if it's something to read as a book or novel, do not play on words like that then person won't be interested in reading, they just like the artsy trick that happen. But if it's a like a poster or a comic book title then that will been something different. I know, that you're trying to make it edgy but you're also making it hard to read.

congrats, you're a simpleton..

@@Siddhant19931 yeah i literally just said im a simple man?

His tone too lmao Thats the exact thing my mind said at the layered text

lol

ok. it's subjective. the first poster is nice.

The result its not as good as could be. If you refine that its very good. Its definitly more eye catching than teh original. Y prefer the second one becouse it has the potential to be great if done correctly. In my case i would see the poster as weird and id spend 15 seconds to see whats happening and then iw smile i think "what a great logo".

BBallMOU You are suposed to do that with clever logos that make sense. This one is just ugly, not eye catching and bad logo. (I'm talking about the 2nd one).

Kalle the first one was better

I think it's a neat idea, maybe it would've worked better if the "grind" was lowercase? Like they said in the video, it needs more work but it's something to consider.

:)

💀

yeah...guess they don't have any actual real world experience and are living in their own bubble. Who (as a consumer) in the right mind would actually wish to buy something that doesn't convey meaning and the smaller parts are unreadable?

@Shreyas Misra I've also worked for EA Sports, Unilever, Microsoft, Unacademy, Tata Motors, Dabur and Reliance. The design mistake was a violation of the most basic design principles, Legibility. Such a design choice will be the worst in practical sense.

@@rockcliff1930 And I'm sure you've made some bad design decisions too. *All* designers do, including myself of course. Granted the vast majority of people commenting here don't have 1/10th the experience of Chris. Chris has worked on not just projects for big names, but as @Shreyas Misra mentioned, actual *big* projects. Guys get design work for big companies straight out of college--it's not terribly special--but only the most skilled/experienced will get the big projects like Chris. Saying he doesn't "have any actual real world experience" is like saying Bill Gates doesn't have any real world experience because the Zune failed. Rubbish. Don't get me wrong: I'm not defending the design. I too feel the original was superior to the new one in virtually every way, but people are taking this as an opportunity to say "haha look at the dumb mistake! I'd never make that mistake!! LOL", which is non-constructive and immature.

@@SynthAir there refactor of the original was TRASH unreadable trash that violates so many design principles

@@rockcliff1930 I don't think the poster edit here is the best, but David Carson said it best: "Never mistake legibility for communication". Not saying that it was accomplished in the video, but "legibility" isn't a design principle in the same way balance, repetition, etc. are.

hahahaha yeah!!! when I heard this part I spat my tea out XD

fair enough.

This is somewhat unrelated to this video but relevant to your comment about being a customer. Do you prefer 'simple', fewer design elements and simply text and minimal graphics or graphic design which is more complex and sophisticated? I'm asking because I've noticed that designers and laypeople have markedly different concepts of good and bad design and I find it useful to know what customers like and don't like.

I wish they could have recreated it and showed how it should have been. They admitted in the video that it wasn't finished. I took this video as a "grain of salt" lesson and they proposed problems and ways to finagle and try to solve the problems.

S B and you are probably right. Original was far more in line with what some of the most influential designers through out history would have done. Updated version, while damn cool and far more exciting to look at, goes against the purpose of graphic design as a work to inform or sell. If I'm quickly scanning through pages of a magazine or a newspaper, or driving down a highway by some ads, I'm just not going to stop to figure out what a hell all this means. I'm either looking for some real content or paying attention to what I'm doing, like driving. Designs such as this do nothing to make me stop and take a look at them, let alone immediately understand what a hell is going on.

@@chriscjamison I'm not a professional designer but it was my training. My understanding was always that if you are designing for consumers it should be legible and easy to catch. And this is not it. Sure it looks nice...

Why this isn't top comment is beyond me.

hahah first time I read it as "the gristle"

i respect your opinion, but don't u find it funny yourself critiquing an expert when u just claimed u aren't ?

@@zanakipierre-louis7840 He's right though. Graphic design is for function not for abstraction. That's what art is for. Graphics should have a function.

livelovely but chris specifically said its just a path u could n u would have to play with it a little more for it to work N art invokes emotion makes the viewer feel some type of way when the watch a canvas or whatever it may be Abstraction can be design as long as it sends out the same message so yh it can work as design it can be functional

Zanaki Pierre-Louis it doesnt need to be art, it needs you to be able to read it

chris butt wipes

I agree, sometimes people seem to lose themselves in trying to do something that is different and follows logic, sometimes it works, but not this time

I agree as well. I actually felt if he had kept the Hustle and the grind together on top of each other in the beginning it would be been a bit better. I see what he's trying to do though. I think the first poster was better imo and in many industries going outside the box like he did, especially flipping the copy like he did, would have had the boss or the client wagging their finger.

the new poster was way more modern

Amen

I don't want to repeat the word "The", *proceeds to repeat an entire paragraph of text*

different strokes for different folks.

It's definitely more safe and boring, though. The principles are sound. A problem was the 2 "the's" and there are multiple ways of solving that problem. The italic text was definitely a problem, too.

@@thefutur why would you provide such a petty response to someone that offered a well-thought-out comment?

LMAOOO

Ikr

if anything you can learn from this, it's when they were talking about the contrast.

Literally so freaking true, the person who made the first poster should teach him design

LOL

yeah true simple and readable

Honestly I kind of agree, I think they pushed it a bit.

so true!

IMO, your response seems like the "typical" impression, which is of course OK. But in actuality, the final is actually better, more compelling, fits the story better, and would have longer-lasting impression on the viewer.

True. But if you try to point that out, apparently they criticize you or brush it off as personal choices or debate without further replies. (Based on other comments) But yeah they LOOOOVE blind fanboying

lol not even close... first one was almost ok, it felt too cheap and the handling of space was horrendous. altho im not fan of layering both words, the rest was spot on simplicity and minimalism

Aree he said if it had another layer for the word..it would look better.

@@rockcliff1930 You have to make something easy to read for a normal demographic. You can't get too artistic when it involves posters or other kind of marketing techniques

It was not a finished design. Its possible the concept would be a failure once you see the output by actually putting it to print. That's what designers do. But its important to understand how you can think a little differently when you design a layout and not make it like plain vanilla. Visualizing for print is a very challenging thing especially with creative concepts as you will have to visit the printer multiple times to test until it finally reaches to the clarity point.

look up Josef Müller-Brockmann's work "Der Film"

Allright, I'm sold. Damn that's one fine poster.

@@thefutur I think the big difference between your version and "Der Film" is that Josef didn't left align them like you did, although they are overlapping you are still able to know where to start reading because "Der" comes first. The multiply opacity doesn't help either. It's an interesting break from everything standard but you have to admit this isn't legible. I also know that you didn't have much time so I'll give you that but keep in mind what I said.

​@@thefuturTwo vastly different types of overlapping. Good looking unreadable/low opacity/ bold fonts (aka completely different than Der Film) overlap is still nowhere to be found!

@@thefutur I just looked it up and it's also objectively bad. Anyone with even a couple months of design experience could list off the reasons why. Stop pretending bad design is good.

Big facts

Fake woke

fair enough.

Ok.

@@thefutur Ok.

@@thefutur Ok.

@@thefutur Ok.

I agree. At the same time some remarks were absolutely useful.

teaganmaureen91 perfectly summed up.

Confidence or arrogance? He was desperately trying to "fix" something that wasn't broken just to show off. He could've been like, "Good job on this one. I have no notes."

@@joshuachampion5973 There can be upgrades and betterment done to everything. But breaking the design and rendering it unreadable and useless is not the way to do it. The smaller texts are turned so small that he needs at least a 130% magnification to see it. What will be the outcome when it is actually printed?

I guess now people don’t need skills to do anything, just walk in a conference and talk like your the best designer ever then they will hire you and make you the CEO

He duplicated it to make it visually longer not repeat the paragraph.. you guys arent listening jeez it's a sketch

@@komentor1993 Thank God... a brain.

@@d-watshoustonsfinest7363 hahahaha

Melvin thanks buddy. It’s a testament that if you work at something you will improve.

The Futur The Futur That’s true, you’re the living proof! I just see that I called you John instead of Chris😳 sorry haha!😝

Shhhh! We don't talk about the problems they themselves create or we ourselves are criticized.

it's not readable because there's a white box attached to it. If he did it from scratch there would be no white box and, in turn, less visual, probably making it work well. Also the italic and spacing of the text is kinda off and he couldn't change that, which is something that really tips the repetition of the elements.

thanks Rachel. we just finished reviewing some typography posters on the latest live-stream. check it out.

Glad to hear. we do this in the spirit of trying things and learning.

This is EXACTLY the problem! He's so concerned with only using typography to make art, he's ignoring the point of the exercise! If you want to make art, make art. Design is something else.

The whole sideways text was a great thought. Maybe not necessarily for a poster, I make a lot of flyers and I think I could use that some way in the future because a flyer doesn't have to be fixed to a wall, if its sitting at a round table it can catch the eye from any angle.

Thank you

Like headlines.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion so why not embrace it?

all good. it was a sketch of an idea.

Thank you.

I feel like it needs an image or pattern of some kind to pull it all together, add more balance, and make it slightly more visually interesting imo. But I'm primarily an artist and not a typographer so immediate visual interest is likely to catch my eye better.

no, at least not me

thanks and welcome!

Yes that’s right.

Thank you.

xD NICE ONE BRO, KEEP BEING FUNNY

you must be new here

Does it matter to you if I am?

Nope doesn't matter. Just Chris always does amazing stuff like this thats all

Michael Tran what's so amazing about a title you can't read and super unbalanced page with so much white????

This of course is not a good example. But this style of title is a trend within the Toronto graphic design community. Beyond that minimalism literally loves space. If you're literally just taking this work shop for face value as 'thats what I need to do'. Don't. Chris doing small tweaks, which are just the foundation. Use your imagination, 6:43 "I want to open up your thinking and exploration..."

Zoom try not to put anything dead center

They were working at a really fast pace so it's obviously not refined yet. He's just giving ideas on how to play around with the design.

He's dissecting a flat image to create a new mock up, you can't do that in Illustrator. I'm sure if he was creating a brand new design from scratch he would have started in Illustrator. @Roger 'The Dankmaster' Penrose

@@thetrimiracollective you can but it sucks! masking and copy pasting the layer could be done in AI but yeah, it would take way more work and time

What are u saying this was horrible

Thank you 🙏

I hoped you've realized this in the three years since you posted this, but every design absolutely does need to be functional. If you're working for a client you need to make the most effective design for their needs. That's your job as a graphic designer.

You're very welcome

ing JONG aaron did a great job.

it's a cutdown. this is not drip marketing. we're not selling anything in this video.

Thanks for listening. Cutdown /drip/part of a whole/ whatever you want to call it, having the followup link helps both The Futur and its students! :)

the link is in the description :)

I like that you cut it down because sometimes you guys go a bit off topic throughout your streams (which is rad because it's extremely funny/entertaining) but it is nice that I can also go back to a shortened version if I want to refresh my memory on a topic without sifting through an hour long video. Thanks! ^_^

Fair.

Any graphic-design work would probably be laughed at if it was introduced by a "noobish nobody", graphic design looks different depending on who made it. Chris gave the example of Josef Müller-Brockmann as an example of a good looking overlapping text, the man is celebrated all over the globe as a genius of graphic design, no need to tell he's not doing more complex work than you are ! It's just like painting, completely and unarguably subjective...

@@ThePizza28 That is absolutely not true. A design looks good or bad regardless of who made it. If you have to be told who designed something in order to decide if you like it or not you have no understanding of the principles of graphic design. Trash is trash no matter who makes it.

sorry, are you nuts???

@@GatochanBolivia No on both counts. Hero worship is very prevalent in content creation. These guys have built a persona of competence but don't confuse their competence with how they actually present themselves. You're buying a brand. I have no issue with that at all btw. There's a lot to learn and I love this content. But they are giving people advise based on what they did decades ago. The industry and economical climate has changed now. So there is no certainty that they're advise still sticks. Look at it this way. I train Brazilian jiu-jitsu. I listen to my instructor because he knows the most. But he didn't TELL ME he knew the most. He got on the mat and let us all fight him until he lost. He didn't lose and he put his ego on the line. If Chris Do was so confident in his ability and wanted to prove that he was the best designer. He could enter design competitions today under a pseudonym and still win. I would pay to see that. BUT he isn't selling you his design skills or his business skills. He is selling you the idea that he is great at both so you buy his courses or commission is studio. He won't put himself in a situation where he may hurt his image as that is his brand. Don't get butthurt that I suggest that we could ask the masters of today to prove they are still relevant. I listen to this channel for business insight, but I have never seen any actual design from Chris Do himself. (I don't think). I would listen to him for how to run an agenc, but does he know how to become a freelancer from nothing in today's climate? I doubt it, unless he is told by new designers. The same can go for Draplin too and he is my favourite designer. Why do you think Ben Burns is making his own content these days? It's because he is building his own brand now, either to step up and do his own thing, or he is going to take over from Do eventually as a content creator. This is all just a brand. There is info to be had but these people are so successful, they may not know how to get started anymore. I would have so much respect if Do actually took a pseudonym ( that means false name) and created a design studio from scratch without the benefit of his celebrity in today's climate. The same as my BJJ teacher, put his reputation on the line with no benefits from his past successes and see if his experience can still bring him up to succeed. There is no offence meant here just a thought experiment.

Appreciate it.

Thank you for the feedback

wow. that's good and bad news.

I can say the same and I find it very sad 'cause I haven't finish college :'/

Meira Vich Should we even go for that bachelor with the amount of good free tutorials like these online?

Ben Jazz I learnt really quickly that it's not your qualifications that help you but your work.

Meira Vich I stupidly ignored so much about typography when I was in college. I spent too much time on the visual. So imagine my surprise when I started working and was given a brief to create my first type based campaign...