@@GreedRuinsEverythingsuch an annoying channel

@@royshavrickthen stop watching

​@@GreedRuinsEverything what are they supposed to do? Not cover it?

For the third year in a row?

@@xyz1415it’s a f1 news channel. Mercedes is an f1 team. They’re reporting on the f1 team on the f1 channel. Imagine that.

haunts them in their nightmares

Floor and suspension is their nightmare

well not really in 2020 they had the best suspension in the grip combined with a floor that was untouched and not only 2020, all the way through 2016 to 2020 it was the floor a long wheel base and a solid suspension that did mercedes a jumo to lead

It's just that Toto finally having to start from the ground up. He got Merc in great hands from Brawn & Co's foundation.

​@@NicotineRosberg That's not the case . Aldo costa and Andy Cowell weren't even in the team when in 2009 . James Allison joined in 2017 .

Most of the engineers have left for other teams.

What a strange coincidence that Mercedes started becoming bad after Hamilton started pushing for " diversity ". Looks like recruiting people for quotas and not for their skills doesn't work well what a surprise

It is also what happens when you are not spending 50% more than anyone else.

@@Aefweard this is rubbish. The teams they were spending 50% more than are still behind them.

What happened with Merc is it the fact half Merc team Left and went to Red Bull and William's . No wonder lewis is leaving like they don't know how to build a car anymore even The other teams they sell there engine and other parts to are doing better than them . This definitely the downwards spiral for them what goes up must come down sadly there no longer the dream team 😢

They only got next year (possibly this year if they get it absolutely right) and in 2026, regulations are changing again 💀

​@@meetmadhu7373 won't change enough to make significant changes in the pecking order 😂😂

“Interstellar universe” 😂

Lol I feel like hes already doing that in his spare time. Wouldnt be surprised if he shows up one day in a wheelchair and is able to talk to the engineering gods of all those other dimensions and his mind does that thing from the hangover where he's at the casino doing all the mental math....except its F1 cars.

They need that catering department of red bulls 🤣🤣 the FIA is such a clean corrupt free organisation of course

Good breakdown. How will Hamilton go at Ferrari?

The 2023 car should have been their 2022 car and their 2024 car should have been their 2023 car so they're effectively 1 year behind on development. Mercedes had a powrful engine in 2021 which is why they were often able to run a higher load rear wing to everyone to compensate for any lack of downforce relative to their competitors. Before 2021 tho, whilst they had a strong engine, they had an even stronger floor which was arguably their greatest asset considering how they used to be the team that managed to run the lowest rake with a long wheelbase which allowed them to gather dowforce specially through the high speed corners. I agree budget constraints could definitely be a reason for their downfall but also i think the lack of wind tunnel time to test the mass amount of parts being researched and developed is also a hindrace for them...Basically they resort to performing experiments on race weekend these days instead of conducting said experiments in CFD and the wind tunnel which basically affects the development rate and progress of parts being cleared for use and therefore resulting them to be so far behind everyone in terms of developing the car for each year.

@@NJ0711 do you mean 2020 instead of 2021? Because I am pretty sure Mercedes were hampered by the floor in 2021, and the W12 was basically just a watered down W11, except they took a bigger hit than for ex Redbull did

Point 4 is daft. Why do you guys always echo "they had an advantage in the engine development" the actual thing that made them quick was a new outlook on how to the turbo charger worked. Which allowed them to run small side pods which created better aero benefits and cooling along with better fuel efficiency, less turbo lag and a better centre of gravity compared to its rivals as everything was neat and tightly packaged. You say it Asif their block was this bullet proof over engineered masterpiece whilst everyone else had just quickly slapped a 1.6 turbo together the night before. Everyone knew about the rule change at the same time. Merc tried something and it paid off. Then later engine homologation effects came into play and that set their advantage in for the foreseeable. Similar to the Honda engine today.

@@GameOver-nm2us That's why i said in 2021, Mercedes were able to compensate their lack of downforce due to the sudden floor regulations by setting up the car with a higher load rear wing and they were able to do so because they arguably had the most powerful P.U

That's because merc doesn't get aero, even if their lives would depend on it.

Yeah, they were so melodramatic - mostly coming from Wolff - and I think it's down to perceiving themselves as being the fan favorite (debatable) and just the need to control the sport. On top of that it's about reassuring shareholders with whatever they need to hear. A bit pathetic, but people see through Toto now and his constant gaslighting.

2022 I think they were saying we've sorted porpoising but we hit baku fp1 the w13 was porpoising like mad

@@Ruylopez778 hamilton is a fan favorite not merc 😂. I’m excited to see how many merc fans are Ferrari fans next year lol. Cause nobody seems to like russell and toto

Yep they are back to their normal 2010-13 selves lol

Not at all. The low rake concept proved to be superior in the last era, and RB could come up to it only because of the floor cut regulation change in '21.

which is why Williams were so dominant during that era too right??

Least delusional Red Bull fan

Not a great take to be honest. Ferrari had the better engine in the 2018-2019 timeframe so Mercedes didn't have a PU advantage throughout that whole era. Additionally, the Merc from 2014-2016 was TOTALLY dominant (not just in terms of straight-line performance). Since the aero regulations overhaul, Mercedes have just been completely lost and what people are not full grasping is that this is NOT the same team that dominated for years. There has been extreme brain drain at Mercedes for the last several years. Hamilton choosing to leave should be seen as a harbinger of bad times to come. How long were McLaren in the cellar after Lewis left that team. I think the same thing is kind of going on with Mercedes. The team actually needs to rebuild, and I agree with the OP's assertion that they will not be particularly strong until 2026 at the earliest.

I guess Lewis saw it coming.

what i thought italians sucked at building cars lo and behold ferrari sf24 is a better car than mercedes 😲

Maybe. But Lewis isn't winning another title and given Ferrari's track record may not win another race.

@@bmstyleething is split turbo is banned for 2026 and Ferrari are the only engine without a split turbo

@@harry4454 split turbo vs regular turbo is a copium discussion.

well but Lewis didn't really complain about an unstable rear end or no confidence in the car under the old regs, those cars were mostly rocksolid and predictable for the drivers which apparently these aren't.

@@speedsociety9177 Being able to add more downforce is doing exactly that. Or the other way around, not being able to add more downforce is making your car less solid and predictable.

Bottas was given 1 year contracts yet they didn't want to sign George sooner cause they feared he would be a threat to their princess reaching 7 wdc.

@@RTX4080Gamingthey always said Russel would be there for 3 years…

Russell is no worldchampion material, and Lewis only wins when he has 50bhp more then the others plus his partymode

I do feel horrid for Russell, especially when he did get a drive for a win and then the puncture... Then even past that, they brought him in to "learn" from Lewis for a year... Then Lewis decided he wasn't retiring and dictated car development and fought him, and now that the car was developed for Lewis, he's jumping to Ferrari. So he got brought in to be Lewis' replacement, was made to sit in a car much worse than his skill level and peers, potentially hindering his development, and then brought him up to try to make him play second fiddle.

@@ml8022exactly

I think it has to do with how difficult it is to design a good ground effect car with simplified suspension systems. Mercedes could spend over the cost cap and still not be fast because they don't seem to understand their problems.

And an engine with 50 bhp more with a party mode button 😂

Their aero was never their strong suit even during the heydays. Technical directors always received benefits of having a strong PU.

All the top teams have about 1000 personal. How do you pay them with the cost cap. Its a big scam. There should not be any costs cap.

@@gloveson5687This is precisely why you shouldn’t find a career in anything sport related. The game is not about just the top teams. Its about equal platform for everyone.

If they can sort it out

Lmao hi Jonah

Hamilton said they're still running a different philosophy to "the front three teams." So, while they are figuring out a new concept, they still aren't even on the same page as the others. It's like they refuse to accept that RB got it right...

and those other teams, 2 years ago, had less problems in their first year of running this philosophy...so your statement is NOT true.

It's Ferrari'z first year too 💀 they ain't that bad

They weren't slower than Williams at all that's taking things too far

Let's not over exaggerate

They’re not slower than Williams 😂- they suffered in high speed because they ran little downforce so was the fastest in straights and still pretty fast in slow - it’s just getting a better balance of performance

HUH?

@@MuhammadNiz007 I think the comment was about the section in Jeddah between turns 6 and 10. In that section, the W15 was the slowest car in qualifying; so, it was very much slower than the Williams. The car's top speed advantage allowed them to make up some of that lost time in sectors 2 and 3. But, if they had the grip to be average in sector 1 and maintain their advantage in sectors 2 and 3, you're looking at a car that could have been on the front row with Verstappen.

Well their Tech head Lewis didn't like that concept it seems😂

Or 2022s …

I was about the take out my pitch fork and try to destroy your comment, but then read about Merc winning the constructors in 21 and that’s correct, that complete dominance in a way.

2017 and 2018 Ferrari caught up with the Mercs, unfortunately that Ferrari team didnt know how to upgrade the car during the year. 2020 Ferrari could have also been a challenger, but the penalty unfortunately brought the car down.

Rb didn't win the constructors in 2021 cos they effectively had one driver scoring consistently. The fact they won the drivers title shows they caught up, so it has been done. I would say they even surpassed merc that year. Lewis was lucky to get back to even points as they basically sacrificed bottas season with regular pu upgrades to maximise what they could do with Lewis car. He found out how hard they could safely push the engine performance without risking dnfs.

Counterpoint: 2009-2010. Brawn GP had figured out the 2009-gen car regs best but Red Bull had caught up by the following year, even with Brawn becoming the Mercedes works team.

Counterpoint: 2020 Mercedes and 2023 Red Bull was built while keeping in mind that Ferrari's dawn could be real. In the long term, yes the rivals never caught up to the dominants. But if we change our perspective and see in the short term basis, we could see that in every 4 seasons, the dominants have felt vulnerable to the rivals atleast twice.

brawn is awesome at managing the department, but not at providing the design solution itself. this has been spoken about by Adrian newey and other engineers. he's very useful for a team but not in the same way newey is.

Supposedly Wolff has not significantly upgraded the factory facilities since Brawn set the specifications for them back in 2012-2013, which doesn't help matters.

​@@chee_waiobviously they are useful to the teams in different ways because they have different jobs

@@TassieLorenzo That sounds like reddit bullshit. Don't spread nonsense.

@@chee_wai Brawn set up the department culture that allowed the personnel to thrive according to John Owen. It's in his interview with The Race. Shovlin credits Schumacher for raising the standard of professionalism and motivation at Merc.

They had redular sidepods (aerodynamicly at least) for the majority of last year

Car will definetly improve, but the problem is how much it will improve while others are also improving.

Lemme get a hit of that copium

Exactly. If you exclude the front wing, their car is essentially a copy of the RB19. RB and Ferrari now have their owns designs, meaning that Mercedes are unavoidably gonna stay one step behind. That's just how it is when you copy @@supprush

@@giuseppemaggio5894the car is nothing like the rb19 the geometry of the sidepod and rear suspension is not even close

Anytime he opens his mouth ppl say he is crying. I guess he has some points tho

He taste the same 💊 as Vettel did in Ferrari when nobody heard his feedback. As people beloved Arribavene said drivers job is to drive a car not teaching engineers about car development

The issue is Hamilton. Next year Merc will do well.

​@@stratcat3216 Massive copium.

@@bumblebity2902 you dont win anything if you dont listen drivers

Exactly! We don't see that they have lost their best striker, or best wide receiver, or quarterback. But they have and it matters greatly. Now, whose fault is that - that is another question.

@@eastbaystreet1242 This is probably Toto's fault

The 2024 field is one of the closest fields in f1 history same with 2023 & 2022

Which Road Car has an actual active suspensions (IE no springs or ARB?)

@@palm92 I think the McLarens, apart from the entry level GT models -- but indeed active suspension is not very common on road cars AFAIK.

that's not why only it was banned though. it was too dangerous

@@thecockycow Active suspensions were not banned for being too dangerous. They were banned for cost and performance balancing reasons.

He said in a 2022 interview that it was the suspension that he wanted to get right so he assigned solely himself the task of designing that. Presumably giving the majority of the rest of the design to the other aerodynamicists, intended to return to the floor for big gains knowing that the platform was right.

Mercs doing a bit of technical insanity. But sad innit?

@@StruggleGaming Designing and refining the design of an F1 car is extremely difficult, and inevitably involves some guess work. There are a lot of overly simplistic narratives flying around. Just because they can't get the car performing quite as well as some of the other teams doesn't mean that they're incompetent idiots.

@@syncmonismthat’s something people don’t understand, even if someone gets a chance to drive the 2018 Williams around a track, the car is gonna perform way better than any Road Car out there on the streets. All F1 cars are amazing pieces of engineering.

Well, they are looking like incompetent idiots right now when every other team, including customer teams are way beyond these issues.

Merc are just hopeless at ground affect cars

Might well be. We do know that Max likes a pointy car with lose rear… this gen of cars gives him that. LH wants more balance and complaints abt the rear being too lose. So yeah, could be, he simply has to addapt

True

They drove very low in Bahrain first and man what a sparks… that was in FP’s. They then HAD to drive higher in Quali and race cos it would mean an DSQ again otherwise. They thought they had it figured out with that unique way of that front suspension, which they can change in height with each track… it doesn’t work. They still can drive low AND STABLE. It showed in testing already yet F1TV commentators, which were Skysports ones too, kept fooling the viewers. LH’s car was so unstable, irretic in corners. It showed. Merc clearly didn’t expect to still have the same issues. They expected to be behind in pace maybe but thought they could get up to speed with updates …. Now they again have to SOLVE problems first

Only RB got it fixed in 22 testing, the other teams took at least the entire 22 season or even longer. And i guess merc never did, just goes to show how much they suck at building cars when they don't have a ridiculous engine advantage.

True

The power units will be much more important in 2026. So if they get that right, it wouldn't really matter if their car design isn't the best from an aero and chassis standpoint. Newey has multiple times alluded to this notion that his RB designs from 2014-2020 were the best on the grid but since he didn't have a competitive engine during those times he couldn't really compete with Mercedes at the top.

Ground effect won’t be 1/10 of the strategy in 26. It will all be efficiency and power. If you cannot run your car off your engine, only your battery, what is the point of ground effect. You want less draggy, streamlined, efficient, powerful cars. Ground effect in corners will go away in favor of high speed efficient straights. Lift and coast will be huge, KERS will be huge. People aren’t getting how tectonic of a shift this will be

@@GR1NCHI don't know. The cars are going to be smaller and lighter for 2026 with a targeted weight loss of around 50 kg, if I recall correctly. There should, in theory be less of a reliance on pure power than what we have now, and with the smaller cars, there should be better racing, even if all else were to remain the same.

@@halofreak1990 With 450hp from electrical, there will be more of a reliance on good ERS than ever IMO. The differences between where you run out of that 450hp electrical on the straights and drop back to the 550hp combustion only could potentially be huge IMO.

​@@halofreak1990 they can make the car shorter (cutting the nose length) but i doubt on weight loss. Bigger battery is kinda the opposite of weight reduction, unless they reintroduce refueling.

I know we all know how well he did with the 2014 Ferrari lol horrible car

@@ultrascreens5206 Maybe use your personal youtube account, and not your comapnies.

@@Orcawhale1 maybe use you personal account and not Shamu’s..

@@ultrascreens5206the 2015 and 2017 ferrari were good though but yeah a hit or miss kind of guy it seems

@@Luke22SV they were also there was the b199 where he was head of aero

Lol yeah…he said HE KNEW how the car should be, they listened and see now… no difference

Derp comment

you mean like rb has now?

@@mineralwater6736 Red Bull has no locked in advantage there are no rules preventing other teams from designing a better car, and actually it is the opposite because there are rules that allow other teams more time to catch up based on the championship finishing position. Red Bull has much less of advantage now with rules actively hurting them.

@@ajegelin dude what? it's now harder to catch up thanks to engine lock and budget cap. RB has it way easier now than any other team that dominated before them.

@@mineralwater6736​​⁠ahh a new fan. So here’s what happened. Mercedes helped write the new engine regs with the fia before 2014. Their multiple year advantage was locked in via engine freezes and token systems for 8 years which ensured their domination for the longest period in f1 history - as it took nearly 7 years for Honda to finally catch up. This year and last have been the closest the grid has ever been in f1 history with red bull’s advantage being much smaller than mercedes’ of the past. Red Bull had no head start on the rules regulations and can’t outspend every team like Mercedes did for all those years (even though they tried in 2021 when they spend the most money of any team when including the items outside of the budget cap). And as I said before, the rules actually punish Red Bull now in terms of wind tunnel time, again which never happened to Mercedes.

You jumped on a successful team because of baby Lewis. Now they are crap and you don't understand. That's what you get when you are a fanboy

@@richardashton5015 It's amazing how they don't understand that Lewis is actually the reason Merc is failing today. They decided to pay him an exorbitant salary instead of retaining the engineers who designed the W11. So the engineers got poached by other teams. Hence the downfall of Mercedes.

@@quigglyzdriver salary isn’t included in the budget cap?

@@quigglyz Driver salaries are exempt from the cost cap, the second thing is you can't really stop engineers from leaving for other teams. Could you offer them more money? Sure but not everyone is motivated purely by money.

Salary is not included but it shows how much they liked him and listened to him. His majesty gave hints in what direction they should go. So they followed his royal guidance. Hmmmm maybe not his greatness as he claims!

Probabaly not more than the underfloor, but more than it should. 2 sidepod upgrades in 2023, the latter of which did nothing. Ferrari is a good example. The 2024 car is much simpler on the surface, without the viking horns and little airbox winglets the sf23 had. (tho i hope they get added back with the upcoming updrades). Yet it made the biggest leap (possibly excluding Hass and VCARB)

TUNE !!

Nah, that silver and black doesn't look good at all, i'll take the Williams blue any day of the week.

Lol

just googled it and found out it's a tractor....🤣🤣 He now have to bring the entire Kubota staff to Merc

Jos at the 2001 Brazilian GP says it all.

While it is true Max isn't going to that toxic club, Jos isn't going there either. He's doing rally now, he isn't going to drive in F1 ever again.

Well also the fact that Hamilton isn’t that great of a driver compared to other top tier. Which lando absolutely is top tier. He’s a top mid fielder in skill. His titles are 100% due to the Mercedes dominance. He regularly lost to teammates that have a handful of wins in careers that lasted years and years. People don’t want to look at that but it’s fact. Hes not THAT great unless he’s in a dominate car. The time he had real competition in a team mate he lost.

@@TheBajaminlast year he was the second best driver without a dominant car

@@awsome4272 last year he got lucky that 4 other people were talking points from each other. He was consistently average.

Define "Luck"

You cant figure it out. In the real world it was a horribly flawed concept. No way to guide aiflow towardst the beam wing/diffuse and a unsupported floor

@@dylanburston7453 you wouldn't know that thou, the best you can say is that Mercedes' execution of that idea was flawed as a whole... ofcoarse it is more difficult to achieve the sort of "aero handshake" between the front and back as the prev gen cars... but with the SIS winglet and the pseudo y250 wing, they have somewhat re-engineered some of the tools back into the tool box. Also I think the issue with the W13/14A was likely just as much about keeping the front wheel wake out board as this wake could still interact negatively with the clean air pulled over a wide down-washing sidepod. Also I think there is a good reason why people like James Allison were quick to retort that the sidepod is not the main contributing factor in why the previous cars failed. I think that directly combats the idea that it is inherently a flawed concept by itself and not just that it didn't work with the rest of the package of the car.

@@stephen2282 There is a reason no other team has ran that concept though. Newey said Red Bull looked at it and considered it, but it was ultimately not the right way to go. Mercedes themselves even said that the simulated data did not match actual performance of the car which is arguably the most important thing to understand it and improve it. They really didn't know how to fix the car with that concept despite trying for a full year.

@@stephen2282 I know the sidepod was not the main factor in of itself, but symptoms it helped create, like the floor flexing and excessive drag, are things that massively impacted the performance of the Merc. But they are still fundamentaly flawed. The floor rigidity, internal packaging (and therefore centre of gravity) and driver position were all adversely affected. The floor rigity was the big one tho, as other cars in 2022 (nameley the Williams, Alfa and AM had those short/long elevated sidepods) The Zero pods may work, but not on a ground effect car, and not with the current PU given the packaging requirements they demand. The Zero pods would need some kind of active ground effect controller (active suspension or skirts), more fuel efficient engines or refuelling to get round the issues they had with the fuel tank packaging, and the floor "sticky uppy bits" to control the airflow that the sidepod profile ususally would, and much more floor reinforcement allowance

You seem like those Mercedes fan boys who thought Mercedes would finish 1-2 in Bahrain after Mercedes finished 1-2 in fp2 😂

@@samal8622 surprisingly not. I'm a Lewis fan but I've never actually liked Mercedes

That would be the funniest sh*t, the almighty bouncy castle is the best they ever did with ground effect.

@@jumpcutfilms1958 Lewis fans never existed before Mercedes

@@samal8622 There were plenty during his McLaren days, more so than Vettel fans

Feels like they restart from 0 each times without learning why their current car doesn't perform before starting a new concept.

Well, they actually going backwards. Don't be shocked if they do worse this year than 2022.

Yes, they kept him even a season too long at Williams…

Its not just the floor, how it looks….it’s which part flexes, which doesn’t, thickness of the material with be variable. And it needs to work with the 2 suspensions, wings, sidepods, beam wing.. Just the floor …that’s not the answer.

You say like thats better. The last time we won a championship was 2007.

Jumping off a rooftop vs jumping off a mountain kinda scenario

@@ItsameDrewbetter atm

​@@aventusV33 you have to climb the mountain first I guess

Is this a burner account for Adrian Newey...?!?

Yeah. You are 100% correct. Whom ever makes the best car in the first year of the regulation changes tends to dominate the whole generation these days. We've only had 2 Championship winning teams for the last 14 seasons, Merc and Red Bull. And both teams dominated due to getting their cars right in the first season of the changes. And whom ever makes the best car in 2026 will most likely dominate that era as well. Be nice if it's someone else to be honest. Wouldn't mind seeing McLaren have a come back.

@@luckyluc252026 is a smaller rule change compared to the move to ground effect cars, so I think Red Bull has a very good chance to continue its domination in that era.

@@PlaySAhopefully the cars get much smaller at least. Some circuits are straight up unviable right now because of their size.

​@@PlaySAPower unit change to 50% electric plus "sustainable" fuel seems huge. Also supposedly new regs permitting active aero.

They did, toto said they're thinking it's simulator software at this point.

@@Nismoleb89or they don’t know how to program the software for these ground effect regs…. If they don’t understand the ground effect…they also might program their sim wrong…

yeah but they still have a lot of staff from their dominant era, and Redbull mainly poached people from the engine department, not the aero. it really does feel like a a team that's on the decline and once Lewis leaves I really wonder if they'll be able to reinvent themselves.

@@zinj2618 Aero was never the strong point of merc

@@karamtraktor I concur, If they don't have a clear advantage with the upcoming engine regulations like they did in 2014 they'll be in trouble.

Also keep in mind it was mentioned in hidden articles that the valkyrie provided useful info to Adrian newey that helped me improve the red bull cars. Which helped since wind tunnel and budgets got tightened these recent years. Either way merc made the amg project one. They could use the same loophole and they still aren't doing well. Merc feels like a matador at the end of his pinnacle. I don't really care who wins, I just want to see good racing. Which happens but lack of competition ruined it a bit

@@karamtraktoralso the cost cap hamstrung their mid season development, which they excelled at before the cap came in

He won't, media mainly consists of idiots who are just posting BS for the heck of it.

They coped with it by saying "Mercedes is only running their engines at 70% - once the chassis is fixed say Sayonara to the Bull with the GP2 Engine." Whoops.

The team head, heads of engineering, and then the drivers, any decent driver will win if they have the better car

I mean that's completely obvious. The only person you can really compare a driver against is their own teammate.

Welcome to formula 1. Funnily enough one of those merc drivers is one of the few to win a drivers championship without driving the constructors champion car. A good driver goes nowhere without the tools around him

Yep. Merc should have retained their engineers instead of paying Lewis more money than he's worth...

Adrian Newey would disagree. He takes in plenty of feedback from the drivers on current-season cars when designing the cars for next season, and also when designing any upgrades. Computer simulations can only tell you so much, as evidenced by Mercedes, who keep on getting it wrong.

Wait for Singapore

@@Dishanta_Goswami😂

He's just biding his time, practicing all his Mansell-esque whining & excuses ready for that 💥 moment...

😂

They risked that on purpose to get at least 1 win. Like they did in Australia by setting the engines on high to get at least 1 win… George’s engine exploded. They knew that was the only way to try and win A RACE.

They're paying dearly for joining the Cult of Lewis.

You must be from the cult of maxipad. ​@@quigglyz

They kinda have too.. between cost cap and no testing… sims is all that is left.

Their simulations are too wrong.

Long gone are the days of cold wintry early-in-the-F1-season testing at Snetterton...sadly. 😢

Tell us you're a person with no integrity, without telling us...

​​​​@@liam4603Bro it was 3 years ago. Get over it. Tell us you're a bitter whiner cry baby, without telling us....

For real, ​@@liam4603. It's so funny they don't realize that one of the greatest sports robberies in history won't just go away or be white washed. Ask FIFA, Pete Rose, and doping athletes. That kind of stain doesn't wash out

@@liam4603 Cry me a river, chomp!

@@alotl1kevegas860 According to him the RB is 4 seconds a lap faster