i started learning magic 5 hours ago and the correct answer is 99 lands.... because they are very cheap and you just summon the commander boy

I started playing Commander with the D&D set last year, so deck building videos are always appreciated! (Moxfield @ 11:16)

When building a deck, I usually save 36 slots for lands and refine it afterwards. I’m glad to see that it’s seems like a sweet spot for you guys and others.

I would love to see another 10 episodes of Shuffle Scuffle before the new year, pretty please!

I was literally going through my land counts this morning....good timing, appreciate it guys - I'm usually between 33 and 35 myself (modals included)

wow! this video.. i've always struggled with this.. really helped out.. I usually use 35 lands at least and have noticed getting mana stuck a lot. The Moxfield mana average section is great.

I like the hypergeometric distribution method to determine how many lands you should put in your deck, as well as turn 2 mana ramp cards. Mine came out to 37/11

I counted the decks I had on Moxfield and I average 30.5 lands. Seems about right for me as my curve is way lower at an average cmc of 2.4 . I range anywhere from 27-38 lands in a deck depending on how the deck is structured and what I need most. This is definitely not the normal amount of lands an average deck should have. I play low curve and efficiency so my decks can function on less land in order to mitigate the negative impact of not having enough mana. It does also mean I get hurt the most when mana flooding.

The count changed for me with mdfc's. I was a 36-37 land guy, but I now tend to run closer to 40 since I can literally replace slots with quality cards that also ensure I curve out. I only play three color or less and I don't spin my wheels, so I want to hit a land every turn in the early game without having to jump through hoops. Of course aggro decks and green decks can shave a few.

36 is my default. Then I judge about going above or below that based on: number of ramp spells, deck curve, commander cost and relevant abilities, and finally how much draw/looting there is in the deck.

Honestly, I was playing a lot with 33 lands (WITH mdfc). After playing a lot, I'm playing 37-38 Lands unless I've a ton of ramp and mana dork like 13-15 total. There is nothing worse than having a bad hand, then mulligan and still having a bad one again.

Finally started using Moxfield and love it so much! Got all my decks loaded and starting on my trade binders. It’s super awesome and wished I had done it sooner

30-40 seems fair although it does depend on the type. In my Landfall deck i use 46 lands with Aesi which gives me double land drops and a draw each time. With some large ramp spells that can pull 5-8 lands onto the field and thin my deck before drawing then play impactful spells like tooth and nail or to be able to hard cast huge creatures.

Hard disagree on playing less lands if you're playing more ramp spells. If you're playing ramp spells, it's to get ahead of your normal curve, so if you're missing land drops to do that then you're effectively paying mana for lands that you would normally play for free. Otherwise, agree on everything you said :)

Moxfield ad guess: 7:17 Edit: so close. I usually start at 40 lands (including mdfc lands) before I even start building the deck, then I go down one land for every three rocks that cost two mana or more, and then one land for every two mana accelerants that cost less than two mana. It usually leaves me at about 36-37, depending on how spiky I feel like being with that deck.

the best ads are when its 50% ad, 50% still the video 😆

The mana value changing part of Moxfield is amazing. Whole site is.

I had someone say 50 lands in a deck, I then played against them, a board wipe later and they just drew land after land. He was saying how low my land count was. I had 36 lands and 2 mdfcs.

My core decks average land count is 33 (including MDFCs), going as low as 31 But those include a treasure deck (Negan), legendfall (Reki, the History of Kamigawa) and reanimator (Karador, Ghost Chieftain); decks that have ways to mitigate the risk of low land counts.

When building decks I like to count ramp as half a land and aim for a number around 40.

Just for clarification, do you count mana value with land or without land on Moxfield?

An equation of such that I try to utilize L=lands M=mana rock/dork R=ramp spell C=(colors - green) B= base 50 lands A= average (cmc/mana value) D= card draw ÷ 3 (B - R - M) + C + (A × 0.5) + D = L (50 - 7 - 15) + 4 + (3 × 0.5) + 3 = 36.5

Love the channel nerds. And you have tapped into niche magic discussions (such as this one). The shorts are great as well (comming from someone who doesnt generally like shorts) Keep up the good work!

It’s also important to play your deck and see how it runs. I have a mono G Ghalta deck that runs 32 + 2 0mv rocks and an average MV/CMC of 3.7, but it runs a LOT of ramp, especially in the 1 drops.

Awesome video, I needed this, regardless of my deck I always make sure the land count and mana base is well made, it's the most important part of the deck imo

This is probably one of the best videos when it comes to land counts in Commander that I've seen. You shouldn't set an amount of lands for every one of your decks. That being said, I think the best way to figure out how many lands you need in a deck is to go with 35. Then play a few games, if you seem mana hungry, add lands, if you seem flooded, remove some. Over time from doing this you'll get a decent balance of lands. It just takes time. The following are some stats from my own decks. My average CMC across 17 decks is 3, the average land count is 34. My lowest average CMC is 1.93 with 30 lands (Meria with 7 fetch lands, $698), my highest is 4.2 with 29 lands (Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, $1787). My lowest land count is my Daretti, Scrap Savant ($1470) deck with 28 lands and an average CMC of 3.65. In that deck my goal is to just to play mana rocks, toss my high mana cost artifacts in the graveyard and then cheat them out. It makes it where I almost never paying full mana for a spell. My highest land count is Korvold($1276), with 40 lands and an average CMC of 3.12. That is including 13 fetches for the sac triggers and draw. The last time I got mana screwed was playing my The Scarab God deck ($1314). The average CMC is 2.84 CMC with 35 lands. I got a total of 2 lands in six turns and managed to win on turn eight from combat damage in a 3 player game. Rarely do I get overally mana flooded, because I run enough draw that I can compensate for the lands and just end up discarding them if they aren't needed.

So last night was my first time using Moxfield and no lies were told!!! I managed to brew a new deck in less than an hour!!!!!!! I didn’t even get to tinker with the tabs yet so I’ll make sure to take that force of will down to 0👍🏽

When you guys talk about the average mana value, are you referring to the "including lands" or the "without lands" version? cause moxfield shows both

From my personal experience with one free mulligan there is rarely any reason to ever run more than 34 lands. Pretty much all my decks run 32-34 lands (2.7-3.2 cmc) and I have very good experience when playing all of them. I have one clunky 35 land Timmy deck, but that one is just goofiness. Ramp is usually about 10 and I run 0 mana ramp in like 1 of 10 decks, yes I have a lot.

I have a general starting chart for lands. It flexible based on deck, but this is how I start 2C w G - 36 2C no G - 37 (Not RW) 3C w G - 37 3C no G 38 4C w G - 38 WUBR - 39 5C - 39 RW - 40

I base land base off first style of play, casual, higher power, or cedh. I typically run 28-34 depending on the style of play but typically run a minimum of 10 rocks and maximum 14

Whats the right land count for commander? Depending on the Average CMC of your deck and the CMC of your commander. I tend to go for 35-40, av:37 with my standard ramp package of 7-10 cards averaging 2 cmc each. 3 examples of my decks with quite different strategies and land bases: - My lowest deck is 33 lands, FBL-OOPS Mono Blue, the low land count is fixed via card draw in general. - My highest is 40 lands, Korvold Landfall. LOL I recently added the Cultivator Colossus combo to draw out my deck for lots of landfall triggers and a well played Concordant crossroads to make my army of landfall tokens have haste... last game I got Scute Swarm to 100+ tokens in a single turn and swarmed my opponents. - My Raggadragga deck is 35 lands, mana dork tribal X spells. I could probably lose 2 more lands but I don't like being too dependent on one thing or another, 35 seems like a good balance. X spells are great for Raggadragga because they are variable in cmc, they can be used pretty much anytime, your not stuck with high cmc spells in your hand yet you can still cast the X spell for 7 cmc and trigger Raggdragga. According to the Prof. Tolarian academy your average commander deck should: Land: 37-38 Ramp:10+ Draw:10+ Removal: 6-8 Single target, 5 min boardwipes Creatures: 25+ Good video I was going to suggest a video about High cmc commanders and how to build accordingly. I have seen so many comments about high cmc commanders not being viable, they are fine you just have to build your deck a little differently like setting up an early game or boardwipes that will help your late game commander :P

When building I always plug in my mana base pretty much first with 37. Then when I get my first 100 I check the curve and subtract lands if it's a low curve. My lowest is Edric at 34. My Lord Windgrace and my Birgi burn decks both have 40. Windgrace is lands matter and Birgi has a bunch of X spells. I count MDFC's as spells first and don't include them in my land count. However if I draw them in my opening hand I play the land side.

My Feldon deck can run smoothly with 33 lands. If you have enough rummaging or wheel effects, you don't need to bother with land drops. Feldon is also cheap, so most of the extra land is relatively useless.

The correct number is deck dependent. In a deck like Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire if I don't hit 6 mana by turn 4 then I'm not going to have a good time 39-40 feels like its enough. On the flip side, if i open more than 3 lands in Zada, I don't have enough business spells to even do what the deck needs to do.

I want to shout out the Ixalan flip lands. The white one is good ramp in white, and the tokens it makes can be turned into angels with the enchantment. Treasure map is the best, and if used with smothering tithe it is an excellent source of card draw in white

35-37 depending on CMC of the deck. Plus 10-15 ramps cards. I think it's important for any commander deck to have half of your deck, or little under to be lands and ramp. You'll have smoother plays for sure.

As a guy who mostly plays W/U/x value piles 37 or 38 is usually my sweet spot Pack enough early card draw to make sure I hit the critical land drops, and put enough utility in the mana base to keep my mana busy during a flood.

Okay then NN, I'm going to guess on your NEXT video, the Moxfield ad will be at 16:47.

I need Cherries to start saying “Wellllcome to Nitpicky Nerrrrdddsss” again.

I can just picture Jimmy Wong furiously writing notes on this one.

All 10 of my decks run 30-33 lands (the 2 with 33 include Maze of Ith) and 10+ pieces of 2 drop or less ramp. To be fair though all my decks are 3+ colors, run all their off-color fetches, and have pretty optimized mana bases (minus OG duals). I also pay attention to my mana curve and avg. cmc with all my decks coming in between 2.5 and 2.9.

Really depends on power level and number of mana rocks. CEDH i run 28-32 and regular EDH i run 33-35 plus mana rocks for both.

I still say you can shave a few lands if you run a whole ton of otherwise bad lands, like bounce lands, storage lands, Myriad Landscape-esque lands, the Karoo cycle, there are so many lands that can play better than you'd expect in a clunkier deck, give some storage lands a try in a two colour deck.

My personal rule of thumb (let me know if it's crap) is: 40 land starting base For every 2 cards of ramp, remove 1 land. This could be anything from rocks to growth. Minimum 33 lands (one in three).

I don't have a landfall deck, so my go to land count is 35 with a couple MDFC lands in the 35.

The “Saved It” earned you guys a new Patron. Love you guys! 😂

I basically run 40 with 10 mana rocks in every deck (with 3-15 fetch lands and a wayfarers bauble, for deck thinning) but I also tend to favor commanders with strong card draw and search engines, or lots of mana sinks

Huh, I start at 35 and increase/decrease by 1 for every 0.2 MV above/below 3.0 average MV. Works for me!

I’ve been waiting for this video 😅

love the new lighting!

I often have 34 to 37 lands in most decks Less if you have cheap consistent ramp and or card draw and artifact mana More if you have landfall or lands matter decks

I have a lord windgrace deck with 50 lands. 6 cycle, 3 channel, a couple draw cards, some are fetches and a couple are win cons.

I run about 28-30 lands in my Kozilek deck. You can obviously run less when half of the remaining 70 cards are mana rocks. And colorless is cool because your lands can help make up for the loss of colored effects.

I start with a 35 base line, then look at the average curve of my deck (minus the lands) and then add or subtract based what that number is. If it's less than 3.0, remove 1 land for each .5 it is. If it's above 3.5, add one for each one it is. This doesn't take into account for landfall decks.

One of the little pleasures of running a Yuriko deck is knowing you only ever really need 3 mana: one to cast an unblockable dork, and the other 2 to ninjutsu Yuriko. Everything else is just kinda icing on the cake, lol. :^)

Exact video I needed right now. Like you read my mind.

I aim for 38 to 40... usually I run 60 cards with about 30 being a mix of ramp draw and interaction. 30 being deck related, then commander plus sol ring plus 38 lands

I run 40 to 45 depending on curve. I have a few decks that run 33 to 36 but I've found that more has been better as of late.

I'm not very tech savvy, but I have my decks on Moxfield and have tried to tinker. A little video on some tips and tricks one day would be great! Don't know if that's possible or not? Either way keep the streak going! 💪

Treasure decks, especially mono color decks (Magda for example) needs much fewer lands, I have 32 in my Magda deck.

Your commander definitely matters when weighing your aCMC - my Grenzo cheats creatures with massive cmc's in for 2 generic. while my Anje has 2 special considerations: madness means a much lower true cmc, and her whole thing is tossing cards until a win-con pops up, so I really just need to make sure I have consistent gas for the engine at hand, which is basically my point, so... ... great video guys!

I play a 69 land Azusa lost but seeking deck Edit another guy who plays a true 99 lands deck so I’m the second highest land at the table sometimes

Joe physically creams himself over moxfield and moans into his mic at 4:36

Do the “quality” of the lands count? Untapped v. Tapped; colorless utility, field of the dead, etc.?

NN: How many lands should you play? Magic the Noah: 97

I need Amber cat tokens for my Rin and Seri deck. I use between 34 and 36 unless it's a landfall deck then it's 40+

35 is the platonic ideal; 33 if your commander is 3 mana or less.

In 2 color i usually run 37 with 6 mdfcs, but then i like go out of my way to not run etb tapped utility lands aside from mdfcs.

Would love to see you guys do a video sharing your personal tips and tricks to optimize your use of Moxfield

Depends on the Deck.

I’ve been thinking about this for my Ur Dragon deck all day… thank you for the information as always. You guys are awesome!

My landfall deck is gonna run like 45-46. My lathril deck is 34-36. I'd say low cmc with ramp can go as low as 32. High cmc I'd say at least 36 or 37.

I try and avoid lands that come into play tapped, which is my gripe against MDFC’s. I still run a few and consider them in the same category as Cycle lands.

When you refer to Average Mana Value when it comes to how many lands to use do you mean with or without lands according to Moxfield?

WOOH YEAH AMBER’S BACK 😍😍😍

I have a Yarok deck that's got about 39 to 41 lands because of it being a landfall/permanent based deck. Most of my decks run 32-36 either way and I've seen one of my decks(which is my teetering cEdh deck) have less than 30 which worried me so I edited it a little.

My Eight-and-a-Half-Tails deck runs 31 lands (low to the ground average mana cost, LOTS of land search/ramp) and my Azusa and Kozilek deck each run 39 on the highest end. So many different things in the 99/98 can vary the ideal number of lands in a deck let alone something as important as what the Commander itself is. Crunching numbers and actually playing are super important to the process of figuring out how many lands to run, and information sources like the Nerds are huge aids, especially for newer players. Good stuff!

So, before i watch fully. I saw a table on reddit where someone did the math on the statistics and percentages for optimal lands in a deck. 36 was the best optimal number from it. If i can find the link i sent to my friend, i can send it to anyone interested

All true, I am having a hard time getting my Feldon of the Third path deck to run as smoothly as possible.

I like: 34-35 lands 2 MDFC 10 ramp For average decks

I average between 33-35. Except in K’rrik, I only have like 25-27 in that one.

Cedh turbo decks go brrrrr No more than 26 lands no less than 23

I know this is controversial, but I consider hitting your land drops to be completely different than ramping. Ramping costs mana and gets the attention of your opponents (even if you are just trying to keep up with them), while hitting your land drops is free and normal. I even have opponents that will interact with my green ramp after I've missed land drops, because they assume I'll eventually catch up at some point. I wouldn't really add more ramp with the intention of running fewer lands unless my deck had some crazy synergy with the way I am ramping, or I had major color fixing needs. I think card draw is more effective at letting you successfully run fewer lands, since you see more of your deck in general, and it can find you something to mitigate the attention you are going to get. A lot of this comes down to playstyle and meta, but I figured I'd throw this idea out there. My general/generic land count is 37, while I have higher power decks with curves of 2.4-2.6 that run 33 or 34. I have a Kamiz Obscura Oculus deck that only runs 33 as well, since Connive lets me sift through my deck so much and I want to make sure I can take advantage of the ability (Raffine or Kamiz are great commanders for people who want to successfully get away with running a scandalously low number of lands btw 😉).

when you say "play 35 things that are lands with 3 mdfcs" do you mean including 3 mdfc's or 3 additional mdfc's?

Quick question, when calculating average cmc of a deck should I be including the lands or not including the lands?

Depends on the cmc. However I run no less than forty to to 45 lands or mana rocks. Bc I run the highest cmc in the game. Turn 7 darksteel colossus there's nothing like it. Don't believe ask my play group.

How many tap lands do you play on average? How many are utility lands? Just curious.

I only run 32 in elfball, with none of the switch cards, and it runs smoothly

I usually make my High power decks with like 30-32 lands but all my mid-power decks are land decks so they run like 40 Cedh standard is ~27+2mdfc

Haven’t watch these two guys in a while.

the correct answers are 99 lands and 12:26 Moxfield promo

It would be very nice to know how many ramp spells (signets etc) do you play on avg with your avg Lands? :)

I’m guessing 11:03 for the moxfield ad

28-42 lands depending on the deck. Is the easiest answer. If you don't know how to build a deck. 37 lands is a good default I think.

I usually run 32 for my low cmc decks and 35 for my midrange since I run 10-15 2drop mana rocks/ramp I'm rarely if ever mana short

Nowadays I have a better respect for lands so typically run 35-38 depending on commander cost but ususlly don't go under 35. The ONLY exception was my higher powered magda deck because she only costs 2 and creates treasures.

Appreciate the VIDS - would you rather have Purphoros, God of Forge your Commander or Lathis in a mono red dragon deck?

I find myself being super greedy. I run around 33 and 5 color is my favorite to run 🤣 the crazy thing is I don't struggle as much as you would think because of correct fixing and ramp

28 is enough