You make a lot of good points that I wholeheartedly agree with..Excellent video.

I agree with some of your points, but man, I feel like I'm watching the second coming of Andy Rooney at the end of '60 Minutes.'

I hear what you are trying to say, but it seems kind of strange to me that your position is to criticize people who care about the things you don't favor. I've been doing videos since 2008. I was literally here when there were only 3 or 4 people doing videos on vinyl so I have certainly seen the entire growth of the Vinyl community and the one thing I discovered is that the fascinating piece about vinyl is it offers SOOOO many avenues to get connected with the music world beyond just sound waves. So if we are here to share our passions and our love for vinyl (or cds and cassettes) and music then for some people what will be original pressing, for some focusing on OG or Audiophile pressing, for some all discount bin stuff, not to mention the beginner with a Crosley all the way to a audiophile with $3000 speaker cables. It just seems weird that you seem to be expressing that some people who care about musical areas that you don't need to kind cool it. I really don't care about engineers either, but what is wrong about someone who does? Who finds a fascination with that part of the process. Why shouldn't that be a part of VC as much as any other part of music? My personal position in the VC is that I think whatever stirs your passion in music/the physical format world is what you should share on our channel. Just learn how to do it without bashing those who may like something different. There is enough room on youtube for all of us after all! Never heard them once complain about lack of storage space at youtube. Not to mention the fact that we have to CLICK on a video to watch it. It's not shoved down our throats.

It's all so cringe! They ruin a great sport and past time with their vinyl OCD!

Not to mention the VC drags Ice Castles

I make videos for FUN and to turn people on to music i love. Im not a audiophile. I will leave that up to others. I’ve also never even thought about making a video criticizing other channels. Seems odd, but that’s just me. Congrats on the views!! Sounds like you ya just need to lighten up and have FUN! Take care Dave. ………Also, MANY of us live in urban settings and have to use headphones.

Any day that the plural of vinyl is vinyl, is a good day

This is not meant to be argumentative in the least, but Dave, you need to involve yourself in more of the conversations on livestreams instead of taking a shot at people who do and what they say. There seems to be a few types of livestreams, which I know you’ve been on a couple times who talk about a specific subject, then there’s the just kinda hanging out with friends type. I do agree maybe a couple things you said, but everyone has their own ideas and interests. Tim’s channel is excellent, and he’s a great guy, I’ve always liked Fremer, and Mazzy is a friend of mine. We do livestreams to talk about music, records, recordings and how they’re done, pressings, gear, etc….but, we also just have a good time hanging out and talking with our friends, kind of like if we were at a bar or hanging out in someone’s living room.

I was in the vinyl community... in the '70s.

Nice vid. I too enjoy acquiring/collect/swapping analog and digital gear like you to enjoy the music. Glad you recognized Tim from The University of Vinyl. I blame him for my Steely Dan purchases. He’s excellent in educating his viewers and has helped me better understand the history behind the albums. In terms of reissues, I enjoy collecting jazz LPs and CDs/SACDs. One of my other favorite LP reviewers is the Bob Bradley Channel. Great LP hunter and knowledgeable reviewer. He’s a gear collector too.

Excellent! Great observations and analysis. One of my favorite videos so far in 2024.

I'm not a physicist, but I am pretty sure it is physically impossible for paper to scuff vinyl. It has to be debris that is harder than vinyl, embedded into the paper that scuffs a record.

I gave up vinyl a while back and have no regrets. However, I'm glad the "VC" are out there as one of the "gatekeepers" for the rest of us.

Well I for one am very happy with the vinyl revival, CD,s s are therefore nowadays very affordable.

Great points Dave! I have never heard of the VC on KZfaq. Maybe I should check it out 😂

I've been a part of the You Tube VC for about 8 or 9 years now and I recognize very little of what you speak of here. I will say this though, that the Vinyl Community is vast. There are pockets of collectors within the vinyl community that differ greatly from one another. There are those that just started collecting and there are those that have collected for years, there are those that focus mostly on the music/artists and will just as happily show CDs and cassettes and there are those that will religiously only show records. There are some that pick up all the latest box sets and merchandise but there are many that only buy used music from thrift stores. Sadly, there are also cliques. If you've got issues with the cliques, then go find others to converse with. There must be hundreds of channels to choose from, why pick the channels that bother you? Not surprisingly, the three channels you mention at the end are three that I personally have little or nothing to do with. Is the University of Vinyl part of the VC? I just assumed he wasn't. Never heard of Tracking Angel. Norman Mazlov is, but well, you do seem to be more interested in what may be called 'Professional VCers' rather than the regular armature collectors. What I think is wrong with the YT Vinyl Community is that so many channels that start earnestly to pursue their interest in music and collecting it soon become obsessed with subscriber counts. And what could be interesting channels about record collecting become sorry vehicles for just another money chasing KZfaqr. I decided that I would never let my joy of record collecting fall into second place on my channel. Maybe you could try the same.

Great vid bro! I'm so happy the first record I spun was in 1971, the last, about 1991. Every one of them was hot off the presses and not ever heard for the most part. That was the joy, and that was the era! Those times are unreplaceable to me. Now I just do dig it all! Too old to give a flying fuck! Cheers and happy motorin!

I made the mistake about 6 years ago when getting back into vinyl of being a sucker for selling some originals to get the 180g reissues cuz they were newer and didn't have the pops and scratches....now although I buy new albums, still look for original pressings in excellent condition over the reissues.

Well, to each their own. I for one have enjoyed many channels and have made friends through this community. But calling out “elitists” is a bit hypocritical. A lot, if not most, are just having fun. Me being one of them. So, are you trying to discourage people from doing videos or starting channels themselves?

The interwebz has loads of great info and key board warriors and weirdos, every sub culture has them. I follow a few I like and try to move on from those I don't. Most of what I follow centers around on getting the best system I can budget. I folow a few for new releases and buy used what I can reasonably budget.

In the VC, it is about the distortion and inconvenience. Digital and class A/B baby!

Hey Dave, as always love your content , and this one was no different. I watch quite a few of the VC channels and like yourself, I enjoy some much more than others. Much like the "gear heads" who constantly swap out amp,speakers, DAC...etc. in the search for the ultimate sound, I wonder how often these individuals actually sit down and just listen to music for the pleasure of the music. I think the of the VC members who obsess over mastering engineers, or which pressing plant a record came from in the same way. Do they ever just enjoy the music?? It reminds of a quote from the great Groucho Marx "I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member" Thanks again for all the content. 👍

I think they may have emerged from anonymity rather the animosity 😂. Either way I enjoy your videos. Keep them coming.

We have 46,000 + records, and will NEVER give them up ! LOL... and they sound so much better than any other format...I was buying in the record stores since early 60's, and must say I really miss the old record stores...I do use quality headphones, when really want to quiet things up a bit...Like Pink Floyd MOFI ...and such... KEEP PLAYING THE MUSIC ! ! !

Boy, I sure miss the late Oddbox Topper. For me, he was the soul of the VC.

Agreed with most of your takes. Engineers and producers did make a difference. And you can NEVER get too much of Steely Dan.

i'm glad i don't come across these issues much as i consider my channel to exist on the outer fringes of the outer fringes of what the VC might be for many a reason. this being said the mastering engineer defo plays a role in the electronic music world, especially when it comes to certain genres like drum'n'bass, because certain engineers are known to deliver heavier cuts than others, especially when comes to extreme low end of the frequency spectrum which basically is responsible for the dancefloor impact. therefore getting your dubplates cut at music house or any kind of bass music cut and mastered by simon @ the exchange will have an effect on the sound whereas one might wanna go to dubplates & mastering in berlin for a dubtechno record. and if i were to press a drum'n'bass record at rand muzik in germany i'd defo want LXC to cut it and provide a final touch.

Lots of interesting insights into record collecting here. Personally, I’m not really interested in Hi-Fi gear… I’ve got a modest, midrange setup, which does me fine. No issue with what others do, but personally I prefer to spend my cash on more records. I prefer original copies too, but don’t have a problem with buying reissues too… some albums are just too expensive to buy og. I only just started in the VC at Christmas, so not really got involved in any live streams… just working away at improving my videos just now 😂 Great watch pal 👍

Nice video. I agree with many of your points. I do think you have much to contribute and should maybe consider trying to be a panelist on livestreams as well…we need folks with your common sense and no drama involvement!

I agree with you on a few of your comments about the VC You’re comments about the 150 dollar UHQRS and Steely Dan were right on!! Nobody cared who the mastering engineers were when I first started buying records in the 60s You brought up some good points about today’s VC

Dave! You’re too kind - thanks for the shout out. I enjoyed this one although I started to squirm when you mentioned the Steely Dan obsession and Mastering Engineer “rocckstar-itis”. 😅😳😅

Some interesting points. I don’t care for Elitism and I do agree that exists to some degree. But don’t agree about the “gear” not everyone has the money for top gear. I don’t even know what a pre-amp does? Shame on me I guess. I just want to listen to the record and you know what. I like VHS and tube TVs in the same way I don’t care if my records are a bit noisy at times. Enjoyed the video though. Thanks and subbed

Serious record collecting is today too expensive where I live in the Netherlands. I love a good looking and good sounding record player, there are many around that look so well designed that it’s ownership should open whole new worlds. But in my experience, I listen to classical music mostly, there are not many LPs that sound better than CD. It’s the other way around with classical in so many instances. If you love older jazz music and good quality singer/songwriters it’s another story, I think vinyl takes the first place there. What I’m trying to say is this: it’s not only a matter of personal preference but also of for example ones wallet, availability of good, cheap vinyl and ones favourite genres. Maybe these insights help to understand better opposite positions. I listen to lots of challenging, complex music and I choose to invest in as many CDs (box sets are so great) as my budget can afford, and my 100-150 very good LPs (I own 500 or so) leave me rather cold momentarily. And yes, I own more than decent hifi and turntables as well.

Found a 1970 vintage Sansui receiver, a pair of Zu's and a decent MoFi deck... Listen to quite a bit of Blue Note vinyl, love those old Jazz albums... Something magical about that old Sansui phono stage, and the Zu's, and I was never a fan of Jazz... It sounds SO GOOD! The few new popular music albums I have, meh... Not worth the effort involved, so I stream. And I wash my albums in the sink with Dawn and a sponge... ;-)

I’m old and grew up in the 70s with hundreds of LPs and a pretty darn good stereo system. Even though I still spin some LPs today’s “Vinyl Society” is just not for me. I could add some of my own complaints to this conversation but you did a really good job. Keep up the good work

Waiting for the next video to drop Dave. How about with your audiophile neighbor again? What's he been up to? Would love to see you listen to a handful of musical selections with him and just your watch your reactions.

You must have the Guinness World Record for owning the world’s broadest brush.

Love the Steve Westman impression

But wait, aren't you going to review the latest $60 Television Mofi 180 gram vinyl pressing from the DSD release and rub everybody's nose in it?

I agree with your premise and laud you on the use of the word “quibble,” but don’t agree with your three favorites, two of whom personify your premise. Anyway, keep on Keepin’ on

Hi Dave, I’ve seen you on a few streams and always enjoy your perspective, especially your history with album art design. Good luck with the subs campaign. Cheers!

How does one get "a bit" Obsessive Compulsive Disorder? It must be nice for someone to only suffer a slight disorder.

Spot on!

The Mobile Fidelity controversy was when many in the "VC" lost credibility with manufactured outrage. These analog purists had championed Mobile Fidelity for years & were humbled by having to admit they'd been " duped " ! Made me think of Johnny Rotten at the final Sex Pistols show in 1978 sneering at the audience " Ever Get The Feeling You've Been Cheated ! " Digital is not a four letter word.

Which Roxy Music and Echo & The Bunnymen reissues did you show?

Regarding mastering, yes, that’s so true. I never once heard the name, Robert Ludwig during my youth.

What % of vinyl people buy vinyl with mainly sound quality in mind? What happens when they hear a high end cd player (which still is less than their yearly expenditure on viny), that sounds way better than their vinyl? Even if you got a $2,500 turntable/ cartridge, a high end cd player can equal or surpass it for sound quality. If you have the kind of turntable most lp collectors have; there are cd players you can buy used on ebay for less than $70 that will embarrass it for sound quality After hearing an amazing cd player, do they look at their walls full of lps, their excess lp storage room which used to be a bedroom, and say to themselves "I never had to do all this." All this space being taken up. I could have as many cds as this, tucked away in a closet. All that money gone! $30, $50, $100, $150 an lp, thrown to the wind. Not to mention all that time spent trying to find the best pressings. One of the hardest parts is when they try to re-sell them. They might get lucky on getting a good price for some of them, buy with maybe 90% of them, people are not going to come knocking to pay a collectible price. At some point they realize they made a mistake. They took things too far. Way too far. There are less of them now, spouting out that vinyl sounds so superior. Most of these so called "golden ear" people couldn't hear that Mofi was using DSD files as their "master" until the cat was let out of the bag. Michael Fremer said the Mofi Abraxas by Santana lp had the best sound quality he ever heard. Later it was revealed to have been a digitally mastered lp. But then again Fremer was the guy that said that Sportin' Life was the best Weather Report album, in his short lived magazine, The Tracking Angle. I sort of enjoy him though. It wasn't the cds for the most part. Most of them are absolutely wonderful sounding. It was the cd players. Brightness, edge accentuation, harshness, thinness, strange new distortions, hardness, diluted tone colors, an overly electronic character, and a mechanical character, all can make the sound un-agreeable. But the better cd playback equipment have none of those characteristics at all! They sound analog but without the noise. Not that many people realize that. I know, because my mods have turned my not so very expensive cd players into something that directly competes with very high end turntable/cartridges. I owned some very high end turntable/cartridges and I can hear when I've never heard certain very familiar music in anywhere near this good a sound; being used to hearing it on vinyl for so many years, before the switch. I still play lps too and love them, but I'm glad I found out how good cds actually are. I recently bought a huge lot of them with good artists for what came out to 7 cents a cd. Thanks to my modding, I didn't have to pay doodly squat for cd olayback equipment that is this good. It's a fun time to be a cd-phile.

The VC on KZfaq has jumped the shark.

I agree with you on the Steely Dan thing, though I feel that this particular obsession is one that audiophile types are more into, than record collectors generally are. I'm kind of a fair weather Steely Dan fan, but I can appreciate how nicely mixed and how hi fi their records tend to be. Nonetheless, my favorite of their albums, Aja is one that I have a very old copy of, and it already sounds great to me, so why would I want to bother chasing down one that supposedly sounds even more perfect? A remastered reissue album makes more sense to me when the original album was lacking in some way...

Dave, start your own panels and guide some discussions that interest you. No need to be beholden to a set group of panels. I get where you are coming from but there’s some inconsistency in the points conflicting a touch. But overall the space of music and then the microcosm of vinyl has a lot of subjectivity.

I fully believe headphone listening is the most pure musical experience. everybody else is listening to their "room"

Great discussion! Mr.Pete------> aging hippie

First point is great. The rest is doubtful.

Interesting tropic. I always wonder why my videos don't always get the love (by views I mean) that I put into each and every one??

I also tear off (or cut with scissors) the original rough white paper sleeves. Don't want to risk more scratches, and it happens often enough in shipping. Don't see how that's over the top, just taking care.

Well said !!

cool

Most of these people have at best mid level equipment and the speakers cramped in some corner...Talkin about hearin all the detail!!

Interesting take. My biggest beef with the VC is when they beg for people to subscribe to their channel.

Dude, You can just not click on videos you aren't interested in. 😂

Great video and I think quite through! I like how you called out the “lives” where the most pretentious like to dwell! Btw the two channels you mentioned are some of the biggest offenders in pompous education for the VC! And if you’re not an absolute nut about the Beatles then there is rarely a soft place to fall! Keep up the fun videos!

The VC won't admit that they have a fetish problem. It's not about the music, but rather a fetish for a format and/or nostalgia. The rest of the normal polite society has moved on. As evidenced by the live streams and these people's videos, they were never part of such normal polite society. - Red

Are those Magnepan speakers there?

I swear I could have nearly pinpoint who at each of the references ;-) I remember watching you on one of the panels you mentioned and yes, you look bored and so was I, didn't go through all of it. Do you know @RobertFithen? He's one of my favorites, never taking himself seriously and he remains focused on the music. Wish I could subscribe twice but YT won't let me hehe

You are right on the money. At 82 I'm the oldest active member. I've been uploading videos for 10 years. The live streamers have changed the culture for the worse.

"...emerged from animosity"?... Did you mean "anonymity"?

That picture with CDs scattered all of the floor... is that a joke? If so, how does that add to the discussion? If not, you're contradicting yourself. Since no matter how good the gear, dirty maybe even scratched CDs are not going to allow the equipment to demonstrate its optimal fidelity. And if before playing them you're going to clean them up, then what's the point of showing them all scattered on the floor?

I made a response to this video. I don’t care if you watch it but I feel as if your video made sweeping generalizations of the VC while you only spoke about a small section of it. The VC is a large community that is diverse and inclusive not all of us are audiophiles or have systems that cost more than our cars. Be we love this hobby and our videos are filled with fun and a love for music. When you make a video like this I feel it may detour people from joining the VC. Most of us in the vinyl community have worked hard to get rid of gatekeepers and to be inclusive no matter what you system is , what you listen to or how you collect. You video to me made it sound like all members of the VC are a bunch of headphone wearing jerks. Thanks for trying to knock down this community and not worrying at all that the majority of people in the VC are not the way you described

This really seems kind of nitpicky and just because you don’t like something in the music on vinyl world doesn’t mean it’s not important to someone else. I’ve been in the VC going on 7 years and I’m having more fun watching and making videos than I ever have! If you don’t like something in our community then simply don’t watch but don’t come on here with your ridiculous petty hang ups You obviously have not done a little slumming in the community or you may actually find it enjoyable But you go ahead and keep riding your high horse and keep making your critiques videos and be bored to tears cuz you’re obviously not from the same VC that I dwell in Peace ✨✌️👽✨

There is one channel in particular where political opinions were discussed. I’m not watching VC videos to hear that crap

"Welp...at least Michael is not playing violent computer games" his 90 year old mother sighs. "And at least he gets a bit of exercise riding his penny-farthing bike to the record stores to buy more shellac 78s. Otherwise he'd spend his whole life in my basement!" Seriously tho, Theres too much New Music to find and experience at least once, why devote the little time we have left to old Steely Dan pressings? (Ok maybe I'll dig that old LP for a spin later....or just stream it;-) Yep, since Qobuz I have to say "Why-nyl??" Thanks for this discussion 🎵🎶🤫🎶🎵

100% agree. This was this video I always wanted to make, but now I do not need to. I think the mastering engineer interviews have run their course as well.

How are u gonna complain about elitists and then be elitist about speakers over headphones lol

I just hate the “essential records to own” videos. Everyone has the same records on their list, and it’s all the same music you hear on the radio. Blah. Nothing is essential but the music you actually want to listen to.

When my dad was looking for new speakers in the 90's, every shop we'd go to they would try to play Steely Dan and my dad hated it. I can tolerate it slightly, but not enough to really care and I definitely don't want to watch a 1 hour livestream about it.

6:20 "They have emerged from animosity"? Why were they so hostile in the first place? ✌️

Tube guys and their forums are the strangest of the bunch. Yeah tubes sound great, but its like thier a vegan always throwing in thier 2 cents no matter how expensive your solid state is. Thier generally some odd ducks. The odd thing i found about playing LP's is they sound great on a higher end D class. It has to be nostalgia, when we were kids an LP set up was muddy in comparison lets be honest.... That goes for speakers as well. What was a cerwin vega VS is now a magnepan LRS+ and thiers no comparison.

So what if people use headphones to listen to records, why do you care. If someone is enjoying records that’s what matter, who gives a damn. You seem to be focusing a lot on the anal retentive audiophile side of the vc, that’s a pretty small percentage. Not everyone one can afford an original copy of everything, that being said I’d much rather prefer an original.

You’re right on the money, Dave.

Just for the record (pun intended), I have never mentioned Steely Dan on my channel. Don't get me wrong, he's okay. But, he's not one of the artists I am passionate enough about to bring up on my channel. Nahh, I have unboxing videos with white paper sleeves. I would rather poly-lined sleeves as it leaves less residue on the album that would need to be cleaned off, but other than that, which is minor, it's not a biggie. I actually prefer sealed classic albums. They sound the best as they are OG and no one has played them.

I'm not a fan of Steely Dan

I agree with only two points made: 1) Never waste good vinyl on poor-sounding equipment 2) There is never too much vinyl of any artist or band, up to and including Steely Dan. While I'm not that much of a fan, complaining about this issue is nonsensical.

Part of the anger of finding out that the LPs were cut from digital masters is the feeling of the Emperor's New Clothes of waxing eloquently about the magic of pure analog. The Golden Ears crowd had the rug pulled out from under their feel.

Lighten up dude with a Doobie

Personally I don't pay attention to anyone in "the VC." They're mostly kids who think that they're experts but actually know nothing. And are highly susceptible to buying snakeoil. AND say "like" every 3 or 4 words. In short, not very knowledgeable.

What's wrong? 'Norman Maslof' that's what 's wrong

No no no, you have it all wrong, reissues are the way to go. I repeat DO NOT buy all those crummy sounding originals and older reissues! Stop looking at deadwax too! There is nothing to see. Its all about the music. In fact, just buy cds and leave the old musty record buying to us weirdos. Its an ugly club. Yuck. Yes, yuck. ;)

😴

Spot on !!!