What Was Gandalf's Original Plan in the Lord of the Rings? Middle-earth Explained

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11 ай бұрын

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Gandalf was a wise and impactful leader in the Lord of the Rings, yet it is not clear what he planned to do after the Fellowship got to Lothlórien. In this video, we will explore what possibilities he considered, if any at all! Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts on Gandalf’s plan in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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Пікірлер: 285

@MenoftheWest 11 ай бұрын

Fight for Middle-earth by clicking here-> bit.ly/MOTWLOTR2

@shadowofchaos8932 11 ай бұрын

May a Tolkien fan find the One Ring, MTG:LOTR.

@64standardtrickyness 11 ай бұрын

device not compatible :(

@triratna1397 11 ай бұрын

stupid ad. bloody shill

@ryvyr 11 ай бұрын

Appreciated video, though if you ran non-adsense in full at very front/back/both of video, rather than interrupting TV-style (which feels like a betrayal of trust for mutual consideration), then I would watch rather than skip past.

@captainanopheles4307 11 ай бұрын

That's some... reading of the overlong promo.

@BenWillyums 11 ай бұрын

His original plan was to smoke some leaf with the hobbits

@dickthomas4670 10 ай бұрын

All of our plans before we realize what money is

@saucyrossy3698 10 ай бұрын

‘The halflings leaf’ is just tobacco. Sadly.

@dickthomas4670 10 ай бұрын

@@saucyrossy3698 it’s a fantasy world

@saucyrossy3698 10 ай бұрын

@@dickthomas4670 no shit. and in this fantasy word that leaf is just tobacco. there are videos about it. tolkien himself said so. just because its fantasy doesnt mean there is not empirically verifiable fact.

@Comandate7 10 ай бұрын

Aragorn: So, Gandalf, what's the plan? Gandalf: We go by Isengard, we kill Saruman *Sorry Saruman*, then we go and grab Galadriel, then we go to the Green Dragon, smoke some halfling's leaf and wait till all this blows over.

@danestotzer986 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf know that Gollum was following them, and he felt the Gollum still had a part to play. Gandalf also know that Gollum was able to sneak into and out of Mordor. So, I believe Gollum was part of Gandalf's plan even if he did not know how it would come to be.

@amacuro 11 ай бұрын

Very good point. I'm disappointed that this was not mentioned in the video, as Gollum's impact was so monumental to the whole story.

@shadowofchaos8932 11 ай бұрын

Sauraman, Durin's Bane and Rohan all needed to be defeated and freed to have a successful campaign. Gondor falls without the actions of Gandalf. The Fourth Age would have no dark lord thanks to Gandalf.

@shadowofchaos8932 11 ай бұрын

Boromir was right. Just walk south a long way and sneak into Mordor!

@pamelah6431 11 ай бұрын

That's the opposite of what he said & wanted to do.

@shadowofchaos8932 11 ай бұрын

@pamelah6431 that is what makes it a funny joke.

@johnkeck 11 ай бұрын

As long as one doesn't simply walk in... lol

@pinkace 11 ай бұрын

This question reminds me why I loved the scene in the first Hobbit movie in which Galadriel asks Gandalf "why the halfling?" I think it ties to this question really well. Gandalf didn't choose Bilbo because it was part of a great master plan that was to be carefully executed, he did it because it gave him COURAGE. Gandalf's plans were based on feeling, on emotions, on hope. When you think about it, that is the most anti-Sauron thing anyone can do in Middle Earth; hope for the best.

@angelalewis3645 11 ай бұрын

Beautiful! ❤

@orrointhewise3913 11 ай бұрын

"I started this. I cannot forsake them." If he did have a plan he certainly made it up as he went along, which is very wizardly of him 😂 But perhaps that is one of the most endearing things about him; he changed and adapted things as the world around him changed. Not only that but he was playing geo-chess with Sauron. Who knows, maybe letting Frodo go was the only way and ultimately he knew that all along.

@shadowofchaos8932 11 ай бұрын

At some point, Gandalf realized that Frodo would have to go alone or else more people would be tempted by the ring. Sam going with was a blessing and a curse. But Sam was the second Hobbit to willing give the ring away and broke the temptation. Something even Gandalf couldn't have foreseen. But I do think Gandalf was planning on at least attempting to help Frodo enter Mordor.

@markallen2984 11 ай бұрын

@@shadowofchaos8932Sam was the 3rd Hobbit willing to give away The Ring: Bilbo, Frodo, Sam

@shadowofchaos8932 11 ай бұрын

@markallen2984 yes. You are correct. I forgot Frodo offered twice to give the ring away.

@Hoaxer51 11 ай бұрын

@@markallen2984, It’s been quite some time since I’ve read the books but didn’t Frodo give the ring to Tom Bombadil? And Bombadil easily gave it back to Frodo although the ring didn’t seem to have an effect on Tom.

@johnquach8821 11 ай бұрын

Very nice video! Gandalf's plan for The Hobbit "We build a team for the Lonely Mountain" "We go to the Lonely Mountain" "We kill Smaug"... "We kill Smaug"

@JustMe-um8zp 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf was a good leader, similar to a good general or officer: knowing that no plan survives contact with the enemy, I'm sure Gandalf had a dozen possible ideas, but would only start enacting them based on what happens to The Fellowship, and any new information he gained (like you mentioned: the threat to Rohan). No leader knows everything, and so can never plan for everything. A good leader accepts what they do not know, and keeps in mind unfolding circumstances around them. Great leaders set out goals, not detailed plans. They allow enough flexibility to still strive for those goals, even if it is done by "plan G", or even some new idea brought about by the moment and using what is available.

@BradsGonnaPlay 10 ай бұрын

“Great leaders set out goals, not detailed plans” This is so beautiful and poetic.

@catherinewhite2943 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf, being a faithful Maia, always seemed to understand that even though the vision of the Music was taken away too early, that provision was planned. Frequently from unexpected sources. He walked in faith, knowing the ultimate End would serve Iluvatar's purposes. Plans, yes, but ready to adapt and adjust those plans in accordance with new events and in alignment with walking in the Will of Iluvatar. A lesson to faithful Christians seeking to occupy until He comes, as we are admonished to do.

@FireLordJohn3191 11 ай бұрын

Amen.

@Captain_Insano_nomercy 11 ай бұрын

Well said, many don't understand the deep religious and spiritual underlays of this story. Gandalf likely had no solid plan at all, only faith and duty

@Blackferret66 11 ай бұрын

Agreed. Gandalf was a big believer in providence, so he probably felt that the Fellowship would do what was right and that the powers-that-be would give them as much aid, in one form or another, as they needed.

@angelalewis3645 11 ай бұрын

Beautifully said.

@michaelrhett1077 11 ай бұрын

Insightful

@federicaesu8580 11 ай бұрын

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us is one of my favourite quotes. I use it whenever it’s possible

@paulwagner688 11 ай бұрын

As an Ainu, Gandalf would have knowledge of both the Music and the Vision produced by that Music. As the Grey, it was probably something deep, like something only felt in the heart. As the White, while he did not see the Vision as through a Palantir, like Manwe did when talking with Yavanna, he knew enough to be where he was NEEDED, and also that he had to be one who guided the Third Theme to the Glory of Iluvatar so that that Music always absorbed the seemingly triumphant climaxes of Melkor's Theme. As the White, he was much more proactive than when he was the Grey, and was reactive. Some things he did not know. He assumed Frodo went alone, but when he heard Sam went with Frodo, his mind eased. All was according to the Music then.

@saladinbob 11 ай бұрын

_“For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”_ so sayeth Gandalf, so I feel it would be only natural that his plan was make it to Rivendell, consult with Elrond, then onward to Lothlórien and speak with Galadriel. He knew Sauron was moving on Gondor, and by this time he also knew Saruman had turned traitor and was building an army so the playing field was far from predictable, and this is the best way to make plans. You move from A to B and then work out the best course of action to get to C. It may well have been that Gandalf the Grey would have been drawn to Gondor anyway because if Gondor fell, men would fall.

@Longshanks1690 11 ай бұрын

"He didn't have an exact plan, he just hoped things would turn out for the best and made it up as he went along as things developed in real time." Ah, the GRRM method.

@Longshanks1690 11 ай бұрын

I have wondered the same thing so many times, because it just seems as if Gandalf had no plan - or at least never shared it with the rest of the Fellowship - so if Frodo and Sam hadn't been stalked all the way by Gollum, it's unlikely they would have managed to reach the Mountains of Shadow or the Black Gate, nevermind get across it and into Mordor itself without being spotted by one of countless orcs, a fell beast overhead or by Sauron himself with his great sight. And since Gandalf was aware at least by Moria that he was the only one who could face off against the Balrog if it came to that, bestowing the way into Mordor to Aragorn or Frodo at least was something he should have done if he didn't trust anyone else with that knowledge. So unless Gandalf happened to know a SECRET TUNNELLLLL, THROUGH THE MOUNTAINSSS, I really don't know what the plan was when they got to the borders of Mordor itself.

@wilhelmrk 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf would have taken the path of Cirith Ungol and burned the spiders to dust ☠

@crow-dr3st 11 ай бұрын

Was they not supposed to meet With the Eagles ands flew to mordor ?

@wyvern-report 11 ай бұрын

@@crow-dr3stNo, the Eagles speak on that matter themselves “I am here to carry Tidings, not Burdens”

@stitch3163 11 ай бұрын

The most exquisite plan always fails at first contact. Gandalf knew this and adjusted as appropriate. This capacity is what truly made Gandalf great.

@billgober2 11 ай бұрын

Pretty sure he intended for Aragorn to take over as leader at some point so he could realize he own destiny and capability as the returned king.

@yodaslovetoy 11 ай бұрын

Head to the Winchester and wait for it all to blow over...

@angelalewis3645 11 ай бұрын

I really like how you pointed out that Gandalf holds to being proactive rather than pushing for what he wants to have happen happen. Gandalf is great! He is someone to emulate.

@Amun-Re 11 ай бұрын

I recall something in the book that Gandalf's plan was the get as far as the falls of Rauros and then the rest of the fellowship would decide on whether to go over Emmyn Muil or go to Minas Tirith. If the former route was chosen, Boromir and Aragorn would have separated off to go to Gondor.

@oldoneeye7516 11 ай бұрын

this was how it was decided in the council

@daveowens271 11 ай бұрын

I think that Gandalf's meta plan for the Ring was to get it to Mt. Doom as quickly as possible while avoiding all settlements of men. In Lothlorien, the Ring's influence on others could be lessened so it would fine, but taking the Ring near Gondor, Rohan or (clearly) Isengard ran the risk of the Ring trying to pull a stunt like it did on Boromir. I seem to remember Gandalf saying that visions beyond a certain point stopped for him. If someone remembers that, please let me know.

@TETASARAIVACS 11 ай бұрын

To go to the Ash Mountains, Gandalf would have to cross the road that leaves Mordor northward from the Black Gate, which Gollum said was full of servants of Mordor, and to where the Eye was always looking.

@fenzelian 11 ай бұрын

Maybe the Eye knew what was up and that’s why the servants were there and the Eye was looking there. That part of the role of chance in the plan is that if Gandalf had not died the ring would have gone that way and the quest would have failed.

@TETASARAIVACS 11 ай бұрын

@@fenzelian I guess Gandalf “needed” to fall in Moria so the Ring could find its way to the Crack of Doom, because Gandalf would never actively abandon Frodo, and if Gandalf had gone with him to Mordor the quest would be at peril, because the Enemy would perceive Gandalf’s approach, and would never sent all his force to meet Aragorn before the Black Gate (the quest would not remain secret). Not that Gandalf knew he needed to fall.

@TETASARAIVACS 11 ай бұрын

But else, the Eye was always looking in that direction because that was the main road to and from Mordor. So secrecy demanded them to avoid that road.

@Comicnut64 11 ай бұрын

Awesome deep lore video Yoystan keep up the good work

@caos1925 11 ай бұрын

you know him adapting his plans like this reminds me of a couple things 1. Qui Gon Jinn of all people, who led the Force guide him 2. the saying 'when you make a plan, God laughs.' which seems apt here.

@backwashjoe7864 11 ай бұрын

Asking what was Gandalf’s plan is a lot like asking what was Dumbledore’s plan for destroying the Horcruxes and killing Voldemort. These plans became plot casualties, to give Frodo and Harry the chance to shine and entertain us.

@brendonohagan1946 11 ай бұрын

Dalf would have slapped the butterbeer outta Dumbledorks mouth with low dif.

@MerkhVision 11 ай бұрын

@brendonohagan1946 You’re crazy lol. In a contest of magical power Dumbledore would wipe the floor with Gandalf!

@random22026 11 ай бұрын

7:43 The Brown Lands and the ASH Mountains? Tolkien knew his Legendarium! 😌😌❤❤

@allenrussell1947 11 ай бұрын

Foresight is not necessarily seeing "the" future, but seeing glimpses of the 'possible" futures. Gandalf obviously saw a path to the destruction of the Ring that involved Gollum, but not himself, at least not at Mount Doom. Too often, the oracle causes the future rather than predicts it. That is likely why Gandalf did not have a plan past arriving at Lothlorien; too many variables would have changed by then.

@Dominik-bz1hy 11 ай бұрын

I think that the Valar or Eru himself gave Gandalf a tiny push or a tiny hint thst gave him the right conclusion

@dem0n0maniac 11 ай бұрын

Hey, hey, hey, the Blue Wizards did their part in the East, as "They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East ... who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have ... outnumbered the West."

@antondovydaitis2261 11 ай бұрын

Exactly.

@i_DONT_get_IT 10 ай бұрын

Hey bro, I don’t know why I haven’t been subscribed already, but I am now. Keep up the good work!

@venkelos6996 11 ай бұрын

I sometimes wonder why there really were five Wizards, to the degree there actually were, and how, in their ways, the Valar so fumbled on this point? I'm not sure things would have been much different had Saruman's backstory not included being sent as an aide to overthrow Sauron, and if I'm being fair, he never really did seem to do much, in that capacity. We know he went into the East for some time, and studied "the ways of Sauron", but what that is we don't know. There weren't workshops to pour over, where Sauron honed his ringcraft, or failed examples to examine. He didn't leave tomes chronicling his efforts, for Saruman to read. The White Wizard returned alone, and then didn't do much. He took up residence in Isengard, but that almost felt like more of a deterrent, than helping actively, and as head of the Council, he was more deceitful then aiding. Did he kill the Blue Wizards? We don't know. We don't know practically anything about them, to the extent I almost feel like Tolkien should have just excluded their mention, if he wasn't going to flesh them out anymore then he did. Did they really tip eastern scales against Sauron? Did they die? Fall to evil? Were they still about? Might they have appeared in the canceled sequel? We just don't know. Radagast...we'll at least the staff-wielding druid was on Good's side, but he also seemed to do nothing. Elves often lived in good harmony with nature, yet Radagast didn't even seem to be attached to them. He protected nature, but probably only in one region, it seemed, and then he vanished. Between what the Wizards didn't do, might've done, and more, it's good we got Gandalf, but one almost wonders why the other four, or at least three, were even there, and why the powerful Valar chose them, but then they did so little, or even fell so far? I wonder if Gandalf ever even really considered them when planning? Saruman could be stand-offish, even before revealing his true allegiance, Radagast was...nice enough, but not really helpful, and Gandalf didn't even seem aware whether the Blue Wizards were still alive, to say anything about hoping their efforts were weakening the Dark Lord on a second front. Just like there were crowns of seven kings, though we rarely see so many, sometimes it's funny we know there are five Wizards, yet really only two, and then only one who is actively helping.

@istari0 11 ай бұрын

Tolkien's Legendarium is filled with things he never elaborated on much and thus they are mysteries. Who knows what else he might have written had he lived longer? For my part, having 5 Wizards makes Middle-Earth feel more real to me. It has a sense of permanence and history unlike other fictional universes. Gandalf isn't the only Wizard but he is the one most important to the tale at hand. It wasn't important to the story in LOTR to know more about the other Wizards and after all LOTR is but the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the whole Legendarium.

@istari0 11 ай бұрын

That's pretty much what I have thought for some time. Gandalf very well understood the concept behind "no plan of battle survives contact with the enemy." There were too many variables and unknowns to make a plan for the entire journey. I'm sure he had some ideas but the plan I think was to get to Lothlórien and reassess the situation based on what information they could gather at that point. Unfortunately, Durin's Bane got in the way. Fortunately, those who Gandalf had mentored over the years and decades were able to continue without him for a while. Gandalf understood and fervently believed in Estel.

@jeffreyjeziorski1480 11 ай бұрын

You always have a plan until you 're hit in the face........Mike Tyson

@super-luckabsol4834 11 ай бұрын

10:45 I don't think Alatar or Pallando, the Blue Wizards, necessarily forsook their duties but were rather subsumed in a different emphasis than Gandalf wherein they were directly involved with the Men of the East and their social/political systems. Upon the rise of Rhûn under Sauron, they would have stood as testimonies against or falling in line with how Men, who gained facets to explore and recognize new albeit entropic behaviors (e.g. murder, treachery/betrayal, fearfulness, and attraction to charisma), reacted to corruption differently than the Orcs, which merely degraded to more animalistic ferocity. Thus, they were either increasingly isolated from being able to do good and ultimately killed, they turned on one another, or they were corrupted themselves and aided in Rhûn's formation and organization to strike against the West. Regardless of their stance, they were victims in some capacity because of the way their methods differed from Gandalf's. As there is merit but no material for their story, however, I can only object from my own imaginative standpoint.

@glennross85 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf was trusting to Eru to guide him as he went I believe. Foresight is a funny thing in Middle Earth, you should do a deep dive into why Elron didnt want Pippin to join the fellowship, I believe its because he sensed Pippin would betray the company (taking the Palantir).

@annecronin8339 11 ай бұрын

And or Elrond's deep discerning of Pippin's character and insatiable curiosity getting the better of him, with such impulses presenting a liability to the mission.

@FishTheJim 11 ай бұрын

I never felt that Gandalf based his actions on plans. He was smart enough to understand that plans fail and trust and faith were more important than plans. If he had a plan at all it was Frodo and Sam. His choosing Sam to go with Frodo to me was not mere happenstance. He knew Sam would be curious as to what he and Frodo were discussing and I think Tolkien makes it pretty clear that Sam was eavesdropping and that Gandalf was waiting for it. He put his trust and faith in Hobbits to be able to do what the "big folk" could not do. Sneak into Mordor and destroy the Ring. I believe he wanted Frodo to figure out that he had to do this alone and even if Gandalf had made it out of Moria with the Fellowship this would still be what he wanted. He knew Hobbits better than any of the other races of Middle-Earth and he knew their capabilities but I am certain he would never be able to convince any of them that this was the way to go. The rest of the Fellowship would insist on going(after Lothlorien) not realizing that two Hobbits had a much better chance. He was very happy when he found out that Sam went with Frodo.

@bettamom7593 10 ай бұрын

Hmmmm. Remember that Gandalf also said of Gollum that he has yet a part to play. Perhaps he knew he wouldn't be needed at Mount Doom because the issue would be taking care of that way. Just a thought

@mr.zardoz3344 11 ай бұрын

Olorin had one of the Three, and used it to full purpose. I tend to think his main strength was to rally all peoples to great effect, the small and mighty as well. But his first challenge was Smaug, and he set events in motion to rid Erobor and the surrounding region of a terrible evil.

@sainiharika 10 ай бұрын

Best best video. Thank you for your marvellous work Yoystan.

@kaidorade1317 11 ай бұрын

Boromir: “Gandalf! We must get off the mountain!” Gandalf: “No!” Boromir: “umm ok then. You are the boss Mithrandir”

@pamelah6431 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf wanted to go through Moria in the first place. It was Aragorn who didn't.

@iguachumontiel 11 ай бұрын

Great video man. Thanks for the content.

@DoomMomDot 11 ай бұрын

it seems clear to me that Gandalf had been told to interfere to the least extent possible, but rather to inspire the Free People to make the major moves. so likely, while providing advice where he could, he would encourage the company to make their own choices.

@andrewhirst2262 11 ай бұрын

Thank you for creating these videos. They have helped me and my friend throughout university and behond. They are very much appreciated and enjoyed 😊

@conorhoward5131 11 ай бұрын

Has anyone done a “what if?” of none of the fellowship making it through Moria, with Durin’s Bane claiming the ring?

@tommyfrerking 11 ай бұрын

I think Gandalf knew that the greatest power one can wield is friendship and loyalty. It is not by the deeds of one that major changes, like defeating Smaug or destroying The One Ring, happen, but by the deeds of many.

@talesoftheeldar8688 11 ай бұрын

What was the noldors plan against morgoth before the dagor bragolach ?

@hydroknight01 11 ай бұрын

I think Gandalf less had a particular plan, than he had an end goal, and he approached the reaching of that goal in steps and stages. First stage, "Get the Ring to Rivendell"; council with Elrond to decide what must be done from there, and then approach that task next. But Gandalf always knew that even the best-laid plans often go awry when outside forces intervene, by either design or happenstance; he knew he had to be prepared for that inevitability, and knew the best way to do so was to be as flexible as possible on the road to achieving that ultimate goal. Any road or route would do, so long as it led to the goal of destroying the Ring. It's often said that "The destination matters little; the journey is what's important," but in this case, it was the opposite; for Gandalf, it was the goal that mattered, the route was less important. The phrase, "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it" seems apt, all things considered. :P

@praywithpio6028 11 ай бұрын

Iiirc, he said in chapter 2 that the ring had to be destroyed in the cracks of doom. Now, how did any but Sauron know that there were cracks of doom?

@stefandebeer9375 11 ай бұрын

Semi-unrelated: How did the 3 Istari(excluding the blue wizards) in the 3rd age reach ME when Aman was removed from the world and that the world was round? Like the Blue Wizards came to ME in the 2nd age when Aman was still in the world was flat?

@hendrikm9569 11 ай бұрын

I mean if the elves are still able to take the straight road to valinor, it wouldn't really make sense, if people in Valinor wouldn't be able to do the same, I think.

@Alexs.2599 11 ай бұрын

They journeyed on the 'Straight Road'. Gandalf took it again when he returned to Valinor at the end of the Third Age .

@shanenolan5625 11 ай бұрын

Thanks. Great work

@Dunybrook 11 ай бұрын

I always thought he intended to make use of the giant eagles once he reached their aeries on the other side of the Misty Mountains with Aragorn and Boromir continuing on to Rohan and Gondor by themselves. With their aid he could have destroyed the ring before any of Sauron's other plans had time to bear fruit.

@Starboy_KC 13 күн бұрын

Gandalf was rolling with the punches

@upschutt4842 11 ай бұрын

After experiencing twice to have a hobbit as a main character in his adventures, Gandalf left Middle Earth forever - and took both hobbits with him ;)

@abhijitpawar1568 11 ай бұрын

Great video! I had some thoughts and question about Gandalf and by large the Istari: 1. If Gandalf arrived in Middle Earth in TA 1000, then why didn't he play a more active role in the affairs and people of Middle Earth? If he had been active early he should have prevented many catastrophic events from happening such as the falls of Arnor and Moria, and the Kinstrife in Gondor. 2. What if Gandalf was accompanied by Eonwe instead of Saruman? This would have been a better option and he would have had a lot more help. 3. What was so special about Gandalf, that it was only him that was successful in his quest as an Istari? There are many more but these are the main ones that I have.

@FireLordJohn3191 11 ай бұрын

2> he was humble and didn't actually want to go because he was afraid.

@istari0 11 ай бұрын

1. Tolkien didn't leave us anything on Gandalf's activities so, at least for my part, I can only conclude that whatever he did prevented things from being even worse. As no one knew there was a Balrog in Moria, there was nothing to be done to prevent that. An example of something he might have done was encourage the Men of Rhovanion to openly aid Eldacar in his attempt to retake the throne of Gondor. 2. The mission of the Istari was to aid the Free Peoples in resisting Sauron, not take over as their leaders and order them around. Eönwë was a peerless warrior, well beyond any of the Children of Ilúvatar. His skill set was not what the mission needed. 3. Gandalf was the wisest of the Maiar. As Manwë was the Vala who best understood the mind of Eru Ilúvatar, I believe it was Gandalf, a Maia of Manwë, who best understood the mind of Manwë regarding the mission of the Istari. Thus, it was Gandalf who spent his time traveling around Middle-Earth, seeking to built ties amongst the Free Peoples and encourage them to resist and fight back against Sauron.

@bill-gray 10 ай бұрын

Great video

@pieceofgosa 11 ай бұрын

It's all ultimately irrelevant as Eru had a plan & his plans tend to supersede all others.

@Isambardify 11 ай бұрын

I think eru was based on the abrahamic God and free will and personal striving are his whole schtick.

@ImagineMySurprise510 11 ай бұрын

So I imagine that if Gandalf had not died, if Boromir had resisted the lure of the Ring, if Gandalf had some awareness of the danger to Rohan from Saruman, perhaps they may have boated down Anduin as in the book, but may have split earlier. Boromir and Aragorn would continue on to Gondor because Aragorn had stated that he intended to go there to help fight, but then Aragorn would not have obtained the Palantir or traveled the Paths of the Dead, but the attack by Sauron would not have started as early as it did. Gandalf might have gone to Rohan because there was no-one else to send plus he might already have thought to use the Ents, which would leave the hobbits and Legolas and Gimli to head toward the Ash Mountains on northern Moria. Gollum would have continued to follow but he might not have had a chance to obtain the Ring and certainly no help from Shelob. Whether any of the others might have been corrupted by the Ring as they closed on Mount Doom is impossible to say; my own thought is that some might have been sorely tempted but would have been resolute in resisting it. The main danger would still have been Frodo's inability to cast the Ring into the fire at the final moment, just like in the book. How the others would have dealt with that, I cannot imagine.

@josephfisher426 11 ай бұрын

Had the Fellowship continued down Anduin, Sauron would have had other opportunities to identify where Aragorn was (such as via spies) and probably accomplish something similar to his later use of the Stone. Would have affected the fates of Saruman and Rohan more than anything else. Aragorn would have been present in or near Gondor much sooner if Saruman hadn't drawn him into Rohan via the Orc raid. Secondarily, if Aragorn had skipped the diversion to Rohan, the southern half of the invasion force into Gondor wouldn't have been disrupted. But it is plausible that the Ring could have been destroyed before those forces ever came into play. Because of their own weakness and because of the troop movements in response to the challenge on the Battle Plain, Frodo and Sam did not take an efficient route through Mordor after delay in getting there. More of the party would have been able to move faster and most likely more directly.

@CurrentlyOnLV-426 11 ай бұрын

I think he originally wanted to use his power of magnetism to fly them over to Mount Doom. But Sauron, knowing Gandalf's plan, changed all the metal in his land from steel to titanium, foiling his plan.

@ryansauchuk7290 11 ай бұрын

Magneto would've clapped middle earth's cheeks

@kravenknight9268 11 ай бұрын

You know, I think a interesting "what if" idea would be what "what if Sauron won" in middle earth. With the elves having mostly left to go to the west. Unless the Valar decided to suddenly do something. The Orcs numbers would just grow and grow and grow until they had the numbers to wage a war across the sea.

@Makkaru112 11 ай бұрын

This was shown in someone’s brilliant Galadriel ring story. Where it went deeeep and turns out she never did anything evil. The world was plunged back into the first age and middle earth became a huge forest of massive interwoven trees and eventually as she continued to keep Saurons spirit hushed and knocked out. Leading to her letting it all go and essentially going to the west and pleading the Valar to come take care of their unfinished business with Morgoth’s lieutenant from long ago. I think MOW did it. Check it out. Especially the Saruman VS The WitchKing. It was wonderful

@shadowofchaos8932 11 ай бұрын

What if the fellowship was formed 6 months later and failed to stop Sauruman, Gondor falling, and the 9 Nazgul attacking the north.

@Makkaru112 11 ай бұрын

Orcs wouldn’t even want to set foot there. Also, Ar Pharazôn and his fleet were put into a immortal slumber to be launched at Morgoth at the Dagor Dagorath. Which was when the bending of the world happened. I don’t think they’d even make it there as a similar situation would happen… and depending on if this orc targeting Valinor stuff was before or after Fall Of Númenor! If it’s afterward then nobody can go to Valinor accept those who go through the straight way from the grey havens. OR the only physical way left which was hidden. And it was the path Idril and Tuor built where they went to Valinor together and he became counted as one of the Eldar. The only man to become a full blown elf besides Eärendil who became elf to remain with Elwing as he sails the firmament to stand a watchful guard against The Doors Of Night

@kravenknight9268 11 ай бұрын

@@Makkaru112 That is what would make it an interesting what if though. What if's change the overarching story. Just as the "what if Saruman didn't turn evil" would have implications too that would potentially change things even as far as Dagor Dagorath. There is no telling what number of other beasts like the watcher in the water etc are out there. Even if in the end the enemy did not find or attempt to go to Valinor. Morgoth's forces at Dagor Dagorath are dependent on Sauron having lost in the war of the ring. If he won and the Valar stuck to their "We are not getting involved over there" mentality. Then, from Nazgul being present to the numbers of not only Orcs but evil hearted humans and even the beasts that the Nazgul fly. Not to mention whatever other creatures Sauron creates in his time waiting for that final battle. Such a scenario could end up changing the whole outcome of that final battle against Morgoth.

@istari0 11 ай бұрын

You couldn't just sail west anymore and get to Valinor. When the world was remade at the Fall of Númenor, the Straight Path to Valinor was open only to the Elves by the Valar. No matter how many orcs there were, they could not get to Valinor. Personally, I also suspect that had Sauron won, he would have eventually replaced orcs with men under his control.

@saiyan_princestudios9790 11 ай бұрын

Other YT’ers have said Gandalf seems to have a certain 6th sense. Like he can sense fate. He can’t see the future, not as we think of it. But he could see important characters that fate seemed to have some sort of connection to. From bilbo, to Frodo, to gollum. Telling Frodo to spare gollum bc he sensed he still had a huge part to play in this adventure is a huge example of this. Gollum was no trustworthy ally and surely Gandalf knew Gollum would betray Frodo at his first chance, but he knew Gollum was incredibly important to this quest, either as their guide or something. He probably didn’t suspect the ending where Gollums betrayal literally saved them all. So while no exact plan was formed with his wisdom, and the wisdom of others, and with some glimpses of fate he can kind of get certain things in motion as he did, and kind of wait and see as to what happens.

@typerpower97 11 ай бұрын

I’ve always wondered what Gandalf would have done if he were at the end with Frodo and Sam and he saw Frodo succumb to the ring and refuse to destroy it. Would Gray react differently than White?

@GRWelsh7 5 ай бұрын

I think Gandalf always had a hint of the future from the Music of the Ainur and knew his role in fighting the evil of Sauron was to support lesser beings and help them do it for themselves. He knew it wasn't about him.

@wedgeantillies66 11 ай бұрын

Agree that whatever was his original plan, when it came to getting the fellowship to mount doom, was rendered mute by developing event and need to prop up and prevent the falls of Rohan and Gondor as well as ensure the ring got to mount doom and was destroyed there.

@user-cx7kg6ok9b 9 ай бұрын

Given his unwillingness to enter Moria, it could be that he might have had an inkling that he could possibly meet his doom there. He was, after all, a wizard. Though forbidden to use his maia powers on others, he might have used a bit of foresight on his own path.

@drewjohnson-85 11 ай бұрын

I think you’re right the plan was get to Lothlórien then see how the situation is shaping from there, we need to remember that the War of the Ring started like Risk or one of those multiplayer chess games with multiple players making moves each based on their own plan and reacting to other’s plans, and Gandalf is fully aware of this, which makes making a rough outline plan of get to Mount Doom by stealth and a more detailed plan of getting to Lothlórien then fill in the rest of the plan a logical choice.

@gerrimilner9448 8 ай бұрын

i think he herd illuvatar's gidance and the will of the vala, above all others in middle earth. they told him only a move or handfull of moves ahead at any one time. gandalf, being faithfull, took one step at a time, knowing doing the will of his creator was always the right move on any occasion. i think also he had a sense of importance, so that lesser tasks he could put off for centries (gondors libaury). knowing tolken to be a man of strong faith, adds weight to these thoughts in my mind

@baystated 11 ай бұрын

I have also always wondered what Jack Sparrow's original plan was. Different fiction, I know, but similar. Since neither gives us a pre-narrative briefing, all we see is their adaptation to what unfolds.

@mrgreatbigmoose 11 ай бұрын

A good start to find out where he wanted to go was to see where he had been. Gondor for paperwork, where he did not seem friendly with the Steward but was still permitted. Rohan where he was warmly greeted but he rode the wrong horse and wore out his welcome. Isengard where he was imprisoned. From this we know that the Gap of Rohan woild have been a choice route 'except for Orthanc', not 'except for Shadowfax'. So I think that Gandalf did intend to seek Galadriel then Theoden and to Denethor, pressing his luck the whole way. He might have even tried navigating Emyn Muil.

@eyeofgnosis558 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf's plan: Deciding what to do with the time given to him ^_^ ❤

@TurinTuram 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf plan was to get things in motion and get stuff done. He's the ultimate dynamo middle earth needed!

@ryvyr 11 ай бұрын

Mithrandir is like the DM who plays a character in the party, guiding without metagaming too much :>

@cnwilliams59 10 ай бұрын

interesting ideas

@backwashjoe7864 11 ай бұрын

Based on the title, I thought you were going to start back in the Spring of 3018, when Gandalf and Frodo planned the trip to Rivendell. And then there is Gandalf’s letter that Butterbur forgot to send to Frodo. He had an original plan or timeline that got screwed up by events and others.

@jeffreyjeziorski1480 11 ай бұрын

The best laid plans of mice and men aft gang alay.....Geoffrey Chauser

@billbaxter3800 11 ай бұрын

I don't think Gandalf had a plan as much as he had faith that Eru had a plan.

@DavidOfWhitehills 11 ай бұрын

Well, if some gifted person could encapsulate this in song, it would be a contender at my funeral. But if not, "Let It Be".

@nathanieljackson5554 3 ай бұрын

I always believed that what happened to the Fellowship was something foreseen by Gandalf. Splitting up the party to confuse the enemy would have been the ideal plan. If Boromir hadn't succumbed to the ring they might have been able to get assistance from Faramir in getting into Mordor.

@Corristo89 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf was somewhere between having a master plan and just winging it. He knew what to do and who the best people to bring along with were, but he had no real idea of how things would develop once things got moving after Rivendell. Anticipation is not foresight. Moria was not his plan, nor was having the Fellowship breaking apart into three groups (Sam and Frodo, Merry and Pippin, Aragorn Legolas and Gimli). Yes, that made them stealthier, but it also made each group weaker. He was smart and wise enough to bring people along who could function without him, only needing a push in the right direction or some vital information. This is how he aided in the saving of Rohan and Gondor. Where he truly had to rely on faith was with Frodo and Sam, as he had no way of reaching or guiding them. He had to fully trust in Frodo and Sam staying true to their goal and not breaking along the way.

@ConorCarlisle 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf reminds me so much of my grandfather. Which is ironic considering he's one of the main people (along with my dad) who introduced me to Tolkien's works in the first place

@MerkhVision 11 ай бұрын

That’s not ironic, that’s actually the opposite of ironic lol.

@patrickb1303 11 ай бұрын

His plan was to watch and provide unseen moral support. He will let harm befall them. He will even let them die….

@gravestone4840 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf had all the wisdom and knowledge of a Maiar so he surely had a plan but we need to remember that he was also a big pothead and just like any other pothead, sometimes things slipped his mind for a moment. That Old Toby helped him get his focus right back though.

@Concreteowl 11 ай бұрын

I assumed this video would speculate Gandalf’s plan before discovering Saruman’s treachery.

@Chociewitka 5 ай бұрын

Gorge of the river Poros - the only visible sensible entry into Mordor visible on the maps

@vampyrjack 11 ай бұрын

My thoughts are as follows: Gandalf plans for Aragorn and Boromir was to both ensure the kingdoms of men wouldn't fall, but also cause a distraction, with the heir of Isildur returning would draw out Saurons wrath. From Lorien, he'd both council Galadriel, but also send messages to, the eagles. (Please, relax let me explain!) Just flying from Lorien to Mordor would be a death sentence to the ring bearer, the dark lord has his ringwraiths and other potential monstrosities under his command that could thwart any such attempt. I think his plan was, to split at Amon Hen, where Aragorn and Boromir, probably accompanied by Gimli and Legolas, would journey to save Rohan and Gondor. While Gandalf and the ring bearer would await the eagles arrival. Gandalf would use the seat upon Amon Hen, to await the time when Saurons forces and attention was so occupied with the wars against men, that they could safely fly over the ash mountain, potentially all the way to Mount doom.

@istari0 11 ай бұрын

The Eagles were as susceptible to being corrupted by the One Ring as other beings. The Eagles were not at Gandalf's beck and call. No one could deliberately destroy the One Ring. It was not by the intent of either Frodo or Gollum that it fell into Mount Doom.

@vampyrjack 11 ай бұрын

@@istari0 True, the eagles were not at Gandalfs bidding, neither was Shadowfax. He did not ride Shadowfax, it chose to carry him. Gwahir chose to help and aid Gandalf at several times. The great eagles being of Manwés power, they could certainly be argued as to have a reason to why they'd want to aid in the destruction of Sauron. There's plenty of evidence of them getting involved, so I see no reason Gandalf could petition them to aid in this and see what their answer would be. As for the carrying of the ring to my limited knowledge, there's no hard evidence for that carrying frodo with the ring, would break the will of the beast of burden and make them crave and desire the ring beyond their will to stay themselves. Gandalf travels side by side with Frodo for a long while without tempting to take it from him, and he's quite powerful himself as well. There's also evidence of some powerful old creatures and beings utterly carefree of the ring, such as Bombadil, but also Shelob. Shelob seems to desire only to feed, not get the ring, even though her mother Ungoliant, desired to devour the silmarillions. My point being, we cannot be sure that the eagles would even desire the ring. They might surely, but it's not a given. And to address the point about throwing it in or not, well it's hard to say for sure, that if Frodo had come to Mount Doom sooner than he ended up, letting go of the ring wouldn't have been possible. Bilbo managed to let go of it. Sure, under other circumstances. He'd carried it far longer, but he wasn't at the centerpoint of it power when he let go of it. But he did what no one else had done before, given it away freely. And even if you're right, Gandalf would still need to get the ring to mount doom, and then wing it from there to figure how to get the damned thing in there. I think the eagles are not as stupid an idea as some pose it to be, but neither as brilliant and danger free an idea as others would claim.

@David_Fellner 11 ай бұрын

It's also worth noting that Gandalf probably had no idea that there was a Balrog in Moria. In his debate with Aragorn of which path to take, Gandalf was a proponent of going straight through Moria while Aragorn wanted to try Caradhras first. If he had known _what_ Durin's Bane was, he would have likely have been of a different mind, maybe even siding with Boromir (who wanted to go all the way south and travel through Gondor) after the Caradhras crossing failed.

@-Keith- 11 ай бұрын

I think Gandalf's plans were very low-level ideas rather than a specific plan of action. He knew that Saruman would be scrying for the location of the fellowship at all times, and would be anticipating his movements with bands of Uruk-hai. So haste would be needed to stay ahead of their pursuers. He likely knew that they would have to stay far away from human settlements, because the ring would seek to corrupt nearby people in order to be taken to someone who could deliver the ring to Sauron. He knew that if they had to stay far from settlements, they would need Aragorn's expertise as a ranger and guide in order to provide food for the fellowship as they traveled the wilderness. He likely knew that Boromir would have to be separated from the fellowship at some point, because his desire for the ring was quite apparent and would only get worse with time. At some point, he may have thought that Aragorn would need to leave the group as well before they reached mount doom, lest the ring try to corrupt him where it's at its most powerful. He also may have believed that Sauron could potentially start sensing the proximity of the ring once it entered Mordor unless his attention was diverted elsewhere. So I'd like to think that when the fellowship was resting in camp for the night, he'd be lost in thought smoking on his pipe while trying to think up which route to take, how and when to split up the party, and how to create a sufficiently large diversion that would allow the fellowship to sneak into Mordor without catching the attention of Sauron. After all, the journey wasn't a matter of a few days, it was 6 months long. There's no possible way he could have had a specific plan in mind that took into account all of the above concerns while having to make on-the-fly decisions because they're being relentlessly pursued by Saruman.

@InThisEssayIWill... 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf, getting yoyo'd between a million different tasks: the og ADHD icon 🤣

@risacademics 11 ай бұрын

Well said 🐺

@jonnyboy7941 11 ай бұрын

Man, it sure didn't take them long to exploit LOTR once Christopher was gone.

@MadDog-dn5st 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf already knew everything in advance as he was deeply involved with Eru Illuvatar, which is to say that he left it in all in His hands and let the prophecy fulfill itself...

@TarMody 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf's plan, as a deity who participated in the Music of the Ainur, was woven in music but connected with too many variables (the tune of other beings). Gandalf was able to execute this plan to the extent that he understood music. The parts he couldn't understand were the events and decisions that took place independently of him but were shaped according to his tune.

@philswaim392 11 ай бұрын

I think gandalf embraced a lot of providence. That fate is on the side of good and he just needed to see to it he made the besy decisions and took the best actions he could as situations present themselves. He isnt punting when he says frodo must choose the path. He is seeing where fate takes him. Because frodo is bound to the ring which is tightly bound to the fate of middle earth. So i think he wanted to see where it would take them

@johnmooers5594 11 ай бұрын

It’s fun to speculate but we ignore a crucial point - the actions of Gandalf and the rest were crafted by an omniscient author telling a story. But here goes: - stage one: get away from Rivendell without being seen by servants of Sauron and Saruman. Recall there was still one Nazgûl remaining and horsed. - stage 3: get to Lorien. Vital for resupply and rest after 2 months on foot. - stage 4: pick up Radagast and head south along / on the Anduin. - stage 5: Gandalf, the. hobbits, Gimli, and Legolas head east from Parth Galen to enter Mordor from the north east. Aragorn and Boromir head south to Minas Tirith. Radagast goes to Fangorn to raise the Ents. - stage 6: Gandalf and Co support Frodo and sneak into Sammath Naur from the East. Provide moral support with innate powers and Narya to help Frodo drop the Ring. - stage 7: leg it for Gondor.

@DanPoffenbarger 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf knew about Cirith Ungol, (he recognized it when Faramir mentioned it) and i don't think he would have crossed the Ash Mountains and brought the ring that close to Barad Dur. In my mind he would have boated down the river and then used the Ithilien roads and crossed over the Mountains of Shadow south of the Morannon, but north of Cirith Ungol and get to Orodruin that way. But as a Deus Ex Machina type character he had to be pulled away. It would've been so boring if he magically solved all of the problems for Frodo the way he did for Rohan and Gondor.

@chazlong61 11 ай бұрын

Well, you preclude his real plan with your set up. With Saruman in cahoots with Sauron, he had to stay flexible. Originally, he was off to gather Saruman up and get some advice. Saruman would have wanted to fight. He believed in peace through strength. Saruman would have relented and let Gandalf and a select group, likely of some of the few First Age Elves take the ring in under Sauron's nose, but as soon as Saruman knew of Aragorn, there would have been a lot more parading of Aragorn abut and using the armies of Rohan and Gondor likely with the elven lands' armies making a huge distraction. And Aragorn was his intended ringbearer, and a well chosen one. Aragorn is the only one to turn the ring down other than Galadriel and Gandalf.

@ooglyboogly6258 11 ай бұрын

Gandalf was very important in the defeat of sauron considering he knew before the other members of the white council that Sauron had returned and so he agreed to help Thorin in retaking erebor and thus leading to Smaugs death. As Smaug would have been a major asset to saurons war against the the races of men, elves and dwarves.

@chriscooper654 11 ай бұрын

I think you have it. Gandalf was a great improvisor; he preferred to keep as many options open as possible, not get bogged down in details or fixed on a particular course of action. Aragorn, one of his pupils, emulates this approach more than once.

@marionbaggins 11 ай бұрын

Man, this probably was a question people wanted to know after the Movies, because all people feel they know is Lorien is the last place Gandalf had it mind!!!! I am done with my Essay as of last week, Mellon!!!! That wouldn't bother me for a lot of time!!! Thanks, Mellon for "What Was Gandalf's Original Plan in the Lord of the Rings?" Until Eorl the Young ECH...Marion Baggins Out!!!

@dylanmounsey7515 4 ай бұрын

Dude this is quite the video

@eeeeeeeeMan 11 ай бұрын

I believe that the decisions of Gandalf would have been more along the lines of attempting the Ered Lithui as was stated here as a possibility-- IF one takes into account what came BEFORE Rivendell. It is clear that Gandalf intended to make toward Rivendell from The Shire FAR EARLIER than the four hobbits did. The delays of Saruman (and Butterbur) meant that Frodo and company left MONTHS later than had been hoped. The pursuit of the Black Riders also necessitated a much longer road after they set forth. If Gandalf had not gone to consult Saruman and instead set out directly, they would have been ahead of the Riders and made better time to Rivendell (theoretically). If Frodo had gotten Gandalf's letter, he ALSO may have reached Rivendell much earlier (though a wait for Gandalf to arrive there may have rendered that change moot). The point is that Gandalf and Frodo (with whoever would have made up the fellowship if setting forth earlier) could have had more time for their journey to Mt Doom, as the attacks from the forces of Isengard and Mordor would not have been so imminent. It is also possible that time would have been saved if tackling Caradhras had occured prior to winter. For all of these possibilities, a route to Lorien and then the Mountains of Ash seems to be the most logical. Instead, they all had to make the most of the time that was given them.

@aceofspadez131 11 ай бұрын

I have a question: this is Absolutely true that he had not expected to be defeated by the Balrog. But would it be fair to say that eru ilúvatar's plan went exactly as he planed it to go once young bilbo left on his unexpected journey all the way till golem destroyed the ring?

@richg9578 10 ай бұрын

Eru's plan is the whole plan of Arda - nothing could gainsay it. All the messy bits, decisions Valar make, all of it has its ultimate source in him. Sometimes unlikely things happen, like Bilbo finding the ring and being's like Gandalf can observe "well, that shit is definitely Eru", but that doesn't mean everything else wasn't due to him. Bit of a kicker if you believe in self determination, but that's the Legendarium for you.

@matthamblin2180 10 ай бұрын

Do to time and distance, many elements of a plan could change by the time you reach them. Regardless of what Gandalf knew or suspected, he was unwilling to work unilaterally. Once he knew it was the one ring, he could have taken Frodo directly to Mordor. But he needed to be sure so he sought information from other members of the white council. He took himself to Isengard seeking help but instead found hindrance. He sent Frodo to Rivendell. Though there was some communication between members of the white council I think it was limited and not very secure (I don't think there was any kind of telepathy) so it makes sense that he would want to counsel with Galadriel. Had he known of Saruman's treachery I think he would have taken Frodo directly to Rivendell (before the nazgul were even on the scene). He still probably would have gone to Lot Lorien. In part to sure up alliances and gather intel. Also, in the books Gandalf wanted to go through Moria. He couldn't make that decision for the fellowship because of the dange, but I think he knew a terrible foe existed in Moria (though he didn't know it was a balrog). That threat needed to be eliminated, similar to eliminating the dragon to the north lest either of them should lend support to Sauron. 2 cents.