Theoden talking about Valar be like: "Where were Valar when the Westmarch fell?!" haha

You didn't mention how the boat carrying Boromir's body managed to survive the Falls of Rauros and how there was a glow emanating from it and that the boat changed it's course and came close to the bank where his brother Faramir was. This was certainly Ulmo's intervention.

A possible intervention by Varda is in The Land of Shadow: "There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach"

Sam calls on Varda when fighting Shelob, then the Phial of Galadriel suddenly blazes brighter "like a star leaping from the firmament."

This was a very interesting explanation of the Valar's (possible) involvement in the events of the end of the Third Age. I think when Frodo and Sam were entering Mordor and looked up in the sky, they could see a star. That had to be Manwe's wind showing one of Varda's celestial beauties as a way to encourage them.

There's the very sad moment at the Scouring of the Shire, when Saruman's spirit turns to the West, but is then dissipated by the wind.

This is worth a tenner, I reckon. Often I find, that the interpretations of the lore are what's needed on my second monitor, while I work, rather than the audiobooks themselves. Yourself, Lexi, Robert, Helen, Christian at Philosopher Games and a few others on this platform, are performing an invaluable service. To this insatiable mega fan, anyway. Cheers!

"There's a feeling I get, when I look to the West, and my spirit is crying for leaving".

Great video - I am reading Hobbit and Lord of the Rings to my daughter - it is palpable how distant and removed the events of the Similarian feel - the second age is legend - the Valar - though clearly intervening via the wizards - feel like myth

Outstanding Tolkien breakdown! Never bland and full of vibrant images and quotations.

Wow. I never noticed that interaction with Frodo and the Witch King at weathertop. Striking out and staying Elbereth. It’s subtle. And glossed over in the movies. Excellent. Also, I watched your Silmarillion Explained videos as I read through the book for the first time. I loved it. I highly recommend that as a way to read it for the first time. I look forward to seeing your chapter 17+ videos.

We also see the Valar in different ways, we see them for instance reject the Spirit of Sauruman when he died and considers returning west

Great commentary, I love it. I have always understood the absence of the Valar as being due to the blood oath sworn by Feanor in Quenta. It seemed to me, as I understood when I read it that it was basically due to how much they loved the Noldor even despite the killing of the Falmarin and the Doom of Mandos. Both because they did not wish to join war against the sons of Feanor and to try to turn their back on eternal sadness. The acts of Ulmo therefore were somewhat rebellious. The ship builders were his tribe and he had more reason to be wrathful toward the Noldor than any of the Valar and yet he was the one who sent Tuor to Gondolin.

24:50 Very interesting. I was just thinking about the eagles showing up at key moments, but I didn't really know or recall very well that he once considered the eagles being Maiar.

I really really like your point about Faramir. That he was the one the message was intended for and therefor the message cant be from Eru, since Faramir didnt go. It makes you think that the Valar knew if Boromir went he would die, or at least would fall to temptation, and wanted Faramir to go instead. This of course did not happen. It makes you wonder what would have happened if Faramir went. He would not have turned on Frodo, therefor maybe the fellowship does not break up. Faramir and Aragorn both probably go with Frodo, Aragorn feeling like it is his duty and Faramir because he knows the lands of ithilien. Therefor no-one sales Rohan, Rohan cant save Gondor and the quest possibly fails.

This was fantastic information, thank u! One thing tho-the blade Frodo stabbed at the witch-king with, likely had the same enchantments that pippin’s blade had, which were specifically MADE to kill none other than the witch-king, so I have to say that Frodo stabbing at the witch-king with a blade that definitely WOULD at LEAST make him totally vulnerable and easily killed, as pippin’s did later, would b WAY more than enough reason to cause incredible fear and an immediately retreat, from the witch-king and nazgul, so while ur theory makes sense, I believe it was the fact that Frodo COULD, and almost DID kill, or might-as-well-have-killed him, is what happened, there.

The difference is clear. The Lord of the Rings is a history. The Silmarillion is a mythology. Its like comparing Julius Caesar's Conquest of Gaul to the Bible.The Valar sent the Istari. Gandalf IS the Valar's response to Sauron. Gandalf's death in combat with Durin's bane was reversed by Eru Iluvatar itself. The Valar had no recourse to that situation, God himself had to intervene, and did so. Galdalf the White was the result.

It's relatively easy to discern the intervention of other beings at various points in LOTR although it's until you read the Silmarillion that you understand who they are.

Excellent video, good sir!

"But she now shivered beneath the starry mantle, and she looked northward, above the grey hither lands, into the eye of the cold wind where far away the sky was hard and clear. 'What do you look for, Éowyn?' said Faramir. 'Does not the Black Gate lie yonder?' said she. 'And must he not now be come thither? It is seven days since he rode away.' 'Seven days,' said Faramir. 'But think not ill of me, if I say to you: they have brought me both a joy and a pain that I never thought to know. Joy to see you; but pain, because now the fear and doubt of this evil time are grown dark indeed. Éowyn, I would not have this world end now, or lose so soon what I have found.' 'Lose what you have found, lord?' she answered; but she looked at him gravely and her eyes were kind. 'I know not what in these days you have found that you could lose. But come, my friend, let us not speak of it! Let us not speak at all! I stand upon some dreadful brink, and it is utterly dark in the abyss before my feet, but whether there is any light behind me I cannot tell. For I cannot turn yet. I wait for some stroke of doom.' 'Yes, we wait for the stroke of doom,' said Faramir. And they said no more; and it seemed to them as they stood upon the wall that the wind died, and the light failed, and the Sun was bleared, and all sounds in the City or in the lands about were hushed: neither wind, nor voice, nor bird-call, nor rustle of leaf, nor their own breath could be heard; the very beating of their hearts was stilled. Time halted. And as they stood so, their hands met and clasped, though they did not know it. And still they waited for they knew not what. Then presently it seemed to them that above the ridges of the distant mountains another vast mountain of darkness rose, towering up like a wave that should engulf the world, and about it lightnings flickered; and then a tremor ran through the earth, and they felt the walls of the City quiver. A sound like a sigh went up from all the lands about them; and their hearts beat suddenly again. 'It reminds me of Númenor,' said Faramir, and wondered to hear himself speak. 'Of Númenor?' said Éowyn. 'Yes,' said Faramir, 'of the land of Westernesse that foundered, and of the great dark wave climbing over the green lands and above the hills, and coming on, darkness unescapable. I often dream of it.' 'Then you think that the Darkness is coming?' said Éowyn. 'Darkness Unescapable?' And suddenly she drew close to him. 'No,' said Faramir, looking into her face. 'It was but a picture in the mind. I do not know what is happening. The reason of my waking mind tells me that great evil has befallen and we stand at the end of days. But my heart says nay; and all my limbs are light, and a hope and joy are come to me that no reason can deny. Éowyn, Éowyn, White Lady of Rohan, in this hour I do not believe that any darkness will endure!' And he stooped and kissed her brow. And so they stood on the walls of the City of Gondor, and a great wind rose and blew, and their hair, raven and golden, streamed out mingling in the air. And the Shadow departed, and the Sun was unveiled, and light leaped forth; and the waters of Anduin shone like silver, and in all the houses of the City men sang for the joy that welled up in their hearts from what source they could not tell. And before the Sun had fallen far from the noon out of the East there came a great Eagle flying, and he bore tidings beyond hope from the Lords of the West, crying: Sing now, ye people of the Tower of Anor, for the Realm of Sauron is ended for ever, and the Dark Tower is thrown down. Sing and rejoice, ye people of the Tower of Guard, for your watch hath not been in vain, and the Black Gate is broken, and your King hath passed through, and he is victorious. Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West, for your King shall come again, and he shall dwell among you all the days of your life. And the Tree that was withered shall be renewed, and he shall plant it in the high places, and the City shall be blessed. Sing all ye people! And the people sang in all the ways of the City."

Excellent insights. The power of the name of Elbereth/Varda may also be linked to the power of words/spells and song in general. I do like the idea that calling her name pries open the veil of heaven, so to speak, and the Witch King might perceive the gaze that daunted Morgoth himself.

Expertly presented dear Sir! You've raised many positions that I myself hold as true. Tolkien's works have such broad and meaningful depth, that it is so easy to discover new and enlightening considerations at every reading. I appreciate you presenting even more ideas for fans to ponder and put thought toward. Cheers! :)

One of your best video to date, based on excellent research and a holostic reading of the legendarium - well done, really. I think Tolkien wants us to think that only Eru (God) is infallible in his secondary world - even the Valar make and have to learn from their mistakes in their (colossal and millennial) task of achieving the vision developed through their Music before the beginning of time. And the fact that Valinor was removed from the circles of the world at the end of the second age makes probably a direct intervention of the Valar in the events of Middle Earth more difficult as well as less advisable considering the devastation to the fabric of Arda caused by the War for the Sake of the Elves and the War of Wrath, when they directly took arms against Melkor/Morgoth. But, if you read the LOTR well, the entire narrative is scattered with hints that the Powers continue to support, although in their peculiar way, the fight of the Free Peoples against Evil. Sometimes their actions are clearly visible, in other instances they are less evident but still critical in driving the development of the story towards the right ending. After all, Gandalf, a Maiar chosen by the Valar to be their emissary in Middle Earth in the Third Age, explains this concept quite clearly to Frodo in Moria when he says 'There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil.' This sentence is a clear indication that the Valar and Eru himself have not forsaken Men, Eleves, Hobbits and Dwarwes, and they are supporting them in their struggle against Sauron. One possible other reading of the different way the Valar decide to manifest their intervention in the Third Age compared to the First one is the different ranking of Evil in these two periods. Melkor/Morgoth was a Valar, one of their race, the Mightest of them all in fact (at least in the beginning) and could not be stopped other than by their direct intervention, even if he had dispersed his immense power across Arda. The new Dark Lord Sauron was a Maiar, an Ainu indeed but of a lesser degree, so his defeat could be achieved by the Free Peoples with just an indirect support from the Powers, and the counsel provided by entities of his same rank i.e. the Istari. What do you make of this interpretation?

Always learn so much from your videos, love it

Ulmo caused water to be available to Frodo and Sam while in Mordor.

I remember you mentioning some of Ulmo's influence in LotR before and found it interesting but I completely forgot about Tom's being so close to a weather. I actually really like the idea that the visions were sent to Boromir and Faramir are both sent to them because they really aren't completely omnipresent and just know that one of them need to know this to drive fate. I admit I find it funny that the one of water delivers these messages when hobbits in general were said to not like water. I will never not be impressed by your creators ability to work out timelines. Love the draw to other prophets in fantasy. Wonderful detective work here...but I will always wonder why all the others just decided to mind their own business and be content with their own little world other than not wanting to introduce too much mysticism into the world. Amazing content as always!

If I understand correctly Frodo basically was yelling "police" when calling out that Valar's name.

Excellent analysis and video, thanks

The Valar did not see Sauron (a fallen maia) as a dangerous threat to Arda like Morgoth was.

Wonderful content...instant add

thanks you - that observation about Varda was very sharp indeed :-)

This is an intersting topic. The Valar were active during the time of The Lord of the Rings. Think on this, when Isildur was ambushed by Orcs, the ring fell into the Anduin. Ulmo controls all the waters of Arda, Anduin included, which the One Ring lay in. I suspect that the One Ring's return to the land was Ulmo's foresight. Smeagol was the vehicle to eventually destroy Sauron's ring, while the One Ring exercised it's power to return to it's masters fingers!

Great video.

Sam and Frodo finds water in Mordor during the chapter "the land of shadow". The text leads me to believe that Ulmo intervened.

Thanks!

the valar were doing what i was doing when my midterms were coming up soon, nothing

Good topic.

This is wonderfull!

I wonder if the Valar had a hand in forcing the Fellowship to go through Moria by blocking their path through the Redhorn Gate. Had they taken their intended path, Gollum would likely have remained in Moria and the Ring would not have been destroyed.

Eru Iluvatar... It is EITHER "Eru" OR "Iluvatar"! Tolkien clearly says that in The Silmarillion!

Most of the time they were listening to Eru saying, "Wait for it..."

I can think of three other interventions. Elbereth in the encounter with Shelob, and Manwe in the final moments of both Sauron and Saruman.

What about Yavanna's potential intervention during the Entmoot? Could she have influenced the initially hesitant Ents?

The Valar seems similar with most deities in any myths, having complete power of a domain or something

In other words the Valar went MK Ultra on some of the fellowships' central characters.

So in other words the Valar became ever more subtle and influenced the right people without tipping their hand, and without directly intervening and destroying a continent, and without doing too little thus forcing the great intervention of Eru Illuvatar (destruction of Numenor and the world becoming a globe).

Im one of those pretty hard on the valar with the exception of ulmo. That said, I think it was during the 3rd age they got it right

I remember that in D&D if someone even speak of a god, if there is a believer in that point the god immediately will have attention what is going on. If the Valar heard Frodo, this idea could came from Bible. I dunno much, but would bet there is something about you spoke about God and he actually listen and pay attention to you.

They were simply vibing.

A what if question. What would have happened if faramir had gone to rivendell instead of Boromir?

Mandos was my offer of who was behind Faramir's and Boromir's dreams. Also, the change of winds that banished the cloud veil under which orcs sieged Minas Tirith. The same is with the western wind that banished Saruman. Also, Melian wasn't so rare. It was stated maiar were used to breed orcs and probably trolls to be more powerful. Uruks and ologs were such offspring.

When Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas are tracking down Saruman's Orcs who have taken Merry and Pippin, their pursuit takes on an epic quality. Perhaps this and even Eomer and the Rohirrim's attack on the Orc band at Fangorn are the influence of Orome, the Huntsman? It's strange how the world pivoted between the SA to the TA-Originally, the conflict was oriented North to South (Utumno/Angband v Belleriand). Once Morgoth is defeated and Belleriand destroyed, the conflict is re-oriented West to East (Arnor/Gondor v Mordor/Harad). Middle Earth is itself moved further East away from Valinor.

The Valar couldn't be bothered

This is deep

I made a decision to quit watching 'movies' around 20 years ago, it just so happened the final 3 i saw was The LOTR trilogy...which ain't a terrible 'last trio', coulda been a lot worse. However, a contributing factor, though secondary, to my decision was three plus decades of disappointments due to viewing disappointing screen adaptations of books. The written word + imagination is tough to top 🤫

(Eru) Iluvatar is God(The Creator) in Tolkien`s Story(Fantasy).

Hey. I have a tiktok page with over 21k followers and I was wondering if I could post some of these videos. While of course giving credit to you and your channel.

Doing valar things... the valar were only allowed to intercede with the will of Eru...🤷‍♂️💯

Chillin

Eating popcorn and watching Harry Potter

Sipping Champagne and Eating Caviar. If that uppity Sauron gets out of hand we will send the Elf Princess and her dog to sick him. Worked last time.

You forgot to mention a Valar named Melkor.

This might be a minor nitpick, but "How would Frodo dream of something he had never seen?" is an odd question to ask. I have slain dragons and been chased by unspeakable horrors in my dreams. I have lived years that never existed, been people from the far past and distant future, been an old man, been a young woman... Honestly, every time I go to sleep I'm rolling the dice. Most of my dreams are pretty mundane, but three or four times a year I get some incredible, indescribable experience (though the positive connotations may or many not apply. But getting back on point, Frodo's capacity to dream of the ocean, a place he'd never been (but, as an extremely literate Hobbit, has probably read depictions of) seems like the wrong question. Why would Tolkien choose to specifically include that dream and not the one where some other random thing happened....that's the question of relevance here. (I did have a specific example, but it's a particularly nasty version of the teeth falling out nightmare that I'm not going to inflict on undeserving people such as yourselves.)

Respectfully, I'm going to disagree. There are clearly points where the Valar intervened to help things along, like the sending of visions, but it looks to me like this video is attributing far too much to their efforts. But even assuming absolutely everything in the video claimed was truly the Valar intervening, that seems like a pretty minimal effort put in to prevent Sauron's domination. Even the Istari are at most a mixed blessing, with only 1 out of 5 staying on mission. And let's not forget that all of this could have been prevented if the Valar hadn't let Sauron stay in Middle Earth, so quite frankly, the responsibility for all the evil after Morgoth's defeat is directly attributable to the Valar's inaction and poor judgement.

Sitting on their holier than thou butts. Duh.

They were doing nothing as usual.

TL;DW: Sweet F*** All.

Well of course LOTR is written as a narrative...Frodo wrote it (as Bilbo wrote There And Back Again)😂

Shouldn’t they be sitting back watching their symphony play out?

Chillun

I would argue (and Tolkien himself said as much) the Valar are gods (or what Mankind would call gods), as they maintain the life and physics of the universe. As much a display of power as the Graeco-Roman gods of old and far more than mere Christian angels (the Maiar can be classified as those).

bump

Hangin

I love the movies but the books are better and tell me more an the true story 😄

The valar are ment to be facilitators not gods of creation, and life.

To the creator of this channel and the multitude of others like it. Such as In deep Geek, Nerd of the Rings and Tolkien Untangled. I love all of yalls work, but I must ask if Tolkien's work had not been made into block buster films would your channels even exist? The reason why I ask is that they are many other authors out there that write in the realms of fantacy and magic. There are two that I can think of right off the top of my head, and that would be Ed Greenwood and R.A. Salvatore. Granted neither of them went into the extensive creativeness as Tolkien did with his world creating the pantheon of gods and languages. They are as just as good as Tolkien was IMHO.

Another one with the bad background music. Just talk. Why ruin it with music?

They were smoking the halfling's leaf and were chilling.

They were dancing and singing, perhaps hunting or swimming and telling stories, promoting white culture, white race and nordic mythology while the nations of Middle Earth were suffering:D

Fortnite ...playing Fortnite ...

Nothing. Pretty useless as always.

Your sound is bad

NO IT IS NOT < it states 6 years pass during frodos decision to take the ring to mordor have you actually read the books , personally i would welcome a reading of the audio books < WITH NO DAMN SINGING < its not a musical

Literally not shit