What Will It Take For This Engine To Run 430 Case

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What Will It Take For This Engine To Run 430 Case

Рет қаралды 4,094

Күн бұрын

Outtakes begin around 16:20 or so....jus' sayin'...
The head off the 188D engine in the Case 430 is finally removed with the aid of the Missus on the small chain hoist. The major problem with the internals of the engine is finally exposed. Just about the worse case scenario is realized when we find a good sized pile of dirt sitting on top of the piston and a horribly rust encrusted sleeve. The piston and rings are bonded severely to the walls of the sleeve but that will not be addressed in this video.
The Missus adds her particular flair to the video by asking pertinent questions here and there and making clear her observations about the exercise. I had no idea she was going to have concern about the cheap little hoist and how it got to where it is, but in the outtakes at the end I finally find out just why she gave me this fancy I-watch...and its NOT for being a good boy.
The video ends with a brief rehashing of the perceived scenario of just HOW that amount of dirt entered the #1 cylinder. I don't think its too far off course. You'll have to voice your agreement or dissent to the opinion in the comments if you feel so inclined.
Disclaimer: Don't do as I say and definitely don't do as I do. My mechanical ability is just north of the local shade tree variety so not all techniques used will be right for you....heck, I'm not even sure half of them are right for myself. That said, Lady Luck must ride on the drawbar though, because we usually get to the finish line in pretty good shape. #Case188D, #Case430Utility, #tractorrepair

Пікірлер: 105

@daleatkins2575 Жыл бұрын

I love how you pasified your wife about how folks use those chainfalls all the the time and every night. Sounds like me convincing my wife of stuff I do. Like trimming my hedges with my 12gauge.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha...now THAT cracked me up Dale. LOL. Reminds me of the time after an ice storm the branches were hanging so far it looked like they'd break and fall onto my truck. So I used a 20 ga pump and tried to shoot the ice off the branches. It didn't work as I thought it would but it sure was fun to try !!

@OldSneelock Жыл бұрын

On the Farmall B I put a 3/4" steel plate over 3 of the head bolts. I put a a 5/8" fine threaded hole in it over the piston and used that to put pressure on the stuck piston. Once I had the stuck piston driven out I used the same plate to pull the sleeve. A chunk of 3/4 x 2" bar bridged the bottom of the cylinder sleeve.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

I am lucky enough to have had the chance to amass a good variety of sleeve pulling slugs over the years. I haven't checked the bore yet, but I am hoping to have one the right diameter. I also have my uncles old 'Case' pulling arch from the 1930's. So we will soon see if I've got everything needed. What you did works well though. I even have a special hydraulic jack and porta power specifically FOR the job, but I don't know if the jack works yet. They are short and squatty with a hole all the way through the center of the ram for the 3/4'' fine thread rod.

@grampabadger Жыл бұрын

I did an in frame rebuild on my Case 401 diesel and thankfully, the heads come off two cylinders at a time. My tractor had fallen over into a creek because the previous owner took off a rear wheel and it fell off the jack, then spent the winter on its left side in the water. The number two cylinder then broke off when he got the tractor upright and tried to start it with 12 cans of ether. I put new sleeves, pistons and all the bearings and gaskets after an extensive cleaning job. I then had to fix the injection pump because the owner had messed with it and got a part in backwards. That was over 20 years ago and the old tractor starts first punch of the starter, now. Well worth the effort.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Case makes a good engine. I have an all original '73 580B backhoe and its the identical 188D engine to this one in the 430. Boy, your tractor NEEDED a new owner after the old one did what he did to it !! LOL It sounds like its living where it needs to live if she's still firing right up and ready to work when you need it to. This ones gonna get the whole ball of wax as well. Bottom to top just like yours but I bet its not gonna be a cheaply done as yours was. (-; Thank for chiming in with your input on your Case G-pa Badger !!

@bobhover3863 Жыл бұрын

I’m looking forward to seeing you and the Mrs fixing this and getting it going. I enjoyed you both.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Me too. I hope it won't take too long Bob, but we do have the fall preps for winter starting in right now too. Thanks for the comment and have a great evening.

@thesmallwoodlot433 Жыл бұрын

Wendell, I am with you on the “this is the way we all do it” hoist set up!😅😂😅😂 I have pulled many engines from the rafters of my father’s garage! With a come a long! This was priceless, and getting Mrs.T to help was the icing on the cake!

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Heck yeah man...we had a chainfall in the rafters above the saw mill to roll big logs and cants plus another in the rafters of our tool shed to help with tractor repair and swapping wheels around for row spacing. The Missus is enjoying herself with this one. Thanks for the visit this evening.

@thesmallwoodlot433 Жыл бұрын

@@tractorman4461 stop on by the channel sometime, see what has changed besides the name!

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

@@thesmallwoodlot433 I'll do that. See you there.....

@DIYMyWay Жыл бұрын

Hi Wendell! Eeeew! That number one cylinder was NASTY! Even had mud in it. Once again, brilliant commentary and questions from the Missus. I loved her worst case scenario! 😅

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahaha....she's on top of it man !! LOL I think my scenario is pretty close to accurate too, with the mud in the no. 1 cylinder. Dang it anyway Martin !!

@davescorneroftheworld1147 Жыл бұрын

After seeing that you would NOT have had time to build my a 100 gal. fuel tank! Good thing we figured out how to fix the old one! 😁

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha....we HAVE been a bit busy lately over this way. But I'm glad we had the conversation about your fuel tank anyway Dave. Good luck with it my friend.

@mafarmtown2086 Жыл бұрын

Well, just tell the Missus that necessity is the mother of invention, ie, the chain hoist! Lol. Enjoyed watching and her inquiries keep you on your toes.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Yes, dang it anyway !! She makes me think and it hurts my brain....hahahahaha

@ravelkoff3549 Жыл бұрын

Good job, good team. What a lucky guy :D Always when I take an engine apart, my wife gets as far away as she can.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha....the Missus complains that she ALWAYS gets dirty when she helps me. LOL I think its good for her !!

@Pennies_on_the_dollar Жыл бұрын

Absolutely epic once again Mr Wendell and the Mrs!! "Is this how normal people do it " 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤦🤦🤦🤦 She is a hoot, and keeps you in check while in the shop!!! 😉😉😁😁Her expressed interest and knowledge of the parts and pieces is amazing!! Won't be long she will be taring down the engines for ya..🤔🤔 that could possibly lead to new tractors 🤦🤦🤣🤣🤣😉😉 Wow that set of circumstances that lead to the engine failure and issues was one in a million!! 😳😳 I am looking fwd to this series and seeing exaclty what route you take!! Amazing video my friend, she really lightens up a dreary situation!! Well good to know only one friend had the demon mouse creature come out at them, and she survived 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Only to be traded in for a new model!!! 🤦🤦🤦🤣🤣🤣 The last clip of you and the rafter was the icing on the cake!! Once again my friend, a good chuckle and lots of smiles here on a Saturday morning in NC , which I think you for greatly !! Esp as I continue to repair on the service truck!! Boy if only I could get mine to come help 😉😉😁😁😁 Thank you again sir, and hi to the Mrs, made my day sir!! 😁😁😁👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahahahaha.....I am soooo glad you enjoyed the effort that went into this one Nelson. She's got a way about her ain't she...LOL I sure didn't think she'd get that concerned about the rafters either. LOL Good luck on the service truck, I know you'll get 'er done the way it needs to be !! I'll pass your more than kind words on to the Missus my friend. Have a wonderful weekend and be safe out there.

@Pennies_on_the_dollar Жыл бұрын

@@tractorman4461 😁😁😁🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸👍👍👍

@loodusefilm7881 Жыл бұрын

When i pulled of my 2 cylinder tractor head off i wish i could also put winch on ceiling beam like you did, i had to do all that outside and several times by hand. That was very heavy and much thicker than yours. That Case188D seems to be pretty nice modern diesel engine. Great video with good explanations. Waiting to see how you pull out sleeves and do valve grind. I never seen how it's done.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

I've done it too as a younger man, but I no longer wish to strain so much. Plus I'd have to be on a ladder with the head and no one to hand it to. Yes, it's a pretty modern engine, I believe its the same 188D that's in thousands of 580 Case backhoes. I haven't checked yet, but I am hoping to have the correct slug for pulling the sleeves. We will get to the head eventually.

@johngiegler7653 Жыл бұрын

You two make a great team! Thank you for your videos.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Well heck John...thank YOU for watching them !! Thanks as well for the kind words about the 'crew'. LOL She's a good helper...but I learn a lot from her!!

@curtisbolinger3366 Жыл бұрын

Very informational thank you! Also thank your wife for asking some tremendous questions. Even though some of us have seen those things before it was nice to hear you explain it again. Thanks again.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Well Curtis, I'm glad to hear that. I'm hoping there's guy's out there that enjoy this stuff...I'm doing this one is a whole series of videos instead of one big one that has to have so much cut out. The Missus has been studying up a bit on engines the last few weeks.

@tectalabyss Жыл бұрын

Hi My friends. Sorry it turned out not to good. Your Wife makes a good helper.Has always Liked and shared. All my very best to all.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

It's going to hurt the butter and egg jar that's for sure !! Thanks Bobby, we both appreciate you tuning in.

@FromSteelToWood Жыл бұрын

The Missus makes me laugh! Her comments and questions about your hoist rigged onto the rafters are just dead on! But she doesn't know who (the very skilled) Wendell is compared to the average Joe attempting the same. You sure take your chances, the others take risks! That is bad there was water sitting inside the engine. I'll sure have a close look at my exhaust caps to make sure no water gets inside. At this point, I let the tractor sit inside the hangar most of the time. The outtakes were very funny too! Thanks!

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

I just started adding outtakes since the Missus has been helping. LOL.I never thought of it before. On tractors that don't have flappers, I use the short fat propane tanks on the smoke pipes Joe, because they are thicker and I've never had one rust through. I have had bean cans rust through though. She was sure afraid the rafter wasn't gonna hold the weight.... Thanks for the visit my friend !!

@RCAFpolarexpress Жыл бұрын

Good evening to both of you !!! Your Lovely Wife will be an OUTSTANDING OSHA Inspector Sir ; ) What a new model of wife !!! You two are precious Cheers

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Oh, she inspects everything like she's from Scotland Yard !! I can't get away with a single thing !! If there's a next time I'll marry a dumb one....then I can sneak stuff by. LOL, But then again, the chances of needing to BE a next time isn't too good. UNLESS...she reads this comment !! LOL

@RCAFpolarexpress Жыл бұрын

@@tractorman4461 Scotland Yard In Deed she need to be with you Sir ( LOL !!! ) Sir their will be a next time and YOU will choose the same OUTSTANDING wife that you have RIGHT NOW !!! I think you are way overdue for a Potatoes Peeling Duty Sir 🤣👍 CHeers !!!

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

@@RCAFpolarexpress Hahahahahahaha....hand me the potato peeler Dave, I'll start my penance now !!

@RCAFpolarexpress Жыл бұрын

@@tractorman4461 LOL !!! OUTSTANDING Sir LOL !!!! Cheers !!!

@tomfillmore9710 Жыл бұрын

Great video guys you are getting into the heart of it now #1cylinder looks like it's needing some a tension hopefully the block isn't cracked the Misses did a great job running the chain falls thanks for sharing you guys have a wonderful weekend

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Yeah, I found out too that the cam is gonna have to come out as well. Some good rusting of some of the lobes. Lifters might be bad too on at least one cylinder. We will see Tom, soon I hope. Enjoy the weekend my friend.

@victormurski112 Жыл бұрын

Wendell thats a great video reminds me of when i worked on my tractor projects before my wife passed away id need a little help an id con her to come help just for a minit id tell her an it always took longer but she didnt mind i enjoyed her asking questions an i kinda think she liked helping this video brought back fond memories an even s few tears thanks for sharing

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Victor, I let the Missus read your comment and it certainly touched her heart as well as my own. Thank you for such a heartfelt and sincere comment and we both are glad to have brought such fond and bittersweet memories to the surface. Thank you for reminding us that sometimes its the simple conversations that are the most important. Take care my friend and thank you for the time taken to let us know your thoughts.

@regsparkes6507 Жыл бұрын

He is not telling fibs Tractorwoman, I too have my chain fall rigged from my garage rafters too, actually it takes the place of that "sky hook" that you talked about before! Well done you, for helping in this engine tear down. On a more serious note Wendell, gee whiz man, I hope you only need to replace one liner kit in this one. I wish ( again ) that I could be there to lend you a hand in this. Great stuff to watch though! Thanks for this,...love those 'take outs'. ( especially funny, the man you knew who replaced his wife with a "newer model" ,..hahahaha! )

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

She still gave me that look that contained a certain degree of skepticism Reg.... I think she's thinking that the guys are just sticking together....LOL. She is enjoying the teardown, but no so much a fan of the grease and general gooey-gob that gets all over. I'm hoping a ball hone will work the other three liners into shape. But if they are pitted more than superficial, it'll affect the compression. That will be the determining factor for replacement. Right now I am preparing for a total rebuild. Glad you enjoyed the video and the outtakes.

@regsparkes6507 Жыл бұрын

@@tractorman4461 OK then, let 'er rip!

@akquilter3519 Жыл бұрын

Excellent close-ups of the block. You should include your assistant in all your videos, she asks as many questions as I would. This was great!

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Well, she has a TON of 'em. LOL. It's kinda nice to have an extra hand down in the shed.

@tonyjones9715 Жыл бұрын

😖 well I know you will get it fixed . Thank you for the videos 👍

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

You're welcome Tony. It may take a few bucks, but we should revive it one of these days.

@316jd140 Жыл бұрын

Wendell, another good video. And the missus questions are very thought out and lead to some very informative answers. Kudos to the both of you.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Terry, for the nice thoughts about the Missus. Its been fun getting into this one for sure.

@jankotze1959 Жыл бұрын

Brilliant video Wendell, good explanation and close-ups, very interesting project friends, like the way you and your wife work together

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

We try to have a bit of fun no matter what we are doing Jan. She's quite the character !!

@steffmadin8003 Жыл бұрын

Hi Tractor man, you can tell Mrs Tractor man yes we all do things like that because sometimes it's the only way. I think she is hiding something from you because she aske the right questions for a novice. Well done keep it up both of you.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Thanks Steff for the cool comment !! She has done a bit of engine research in the last couple weeks and is learning the terms quite well but is interested in seeing firsthand the stuff she's researched. It's nice to have her hang around the shop and I like it when she gets her hands dirty. She, not so much. LOL

@mikeheilman2560 Жыл бұрын

Wendell, I don't know how much you pay the Missus, but she's worth every penny. Just be prepared for a "Tractorwoman44" as she picks your knowledge on the equipment. Also, I think matching aprons would be nice. Keep up the great work and don't forget to sandblast the lawn chairs for the Missus. Take care and stay.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Dang Mike, I agree with you. Double of nothing is still nothing though !! LOL She's talking to the daughter that produces the shirts about making a safety orange apron adorned with her name. She's ALWAYS on me about sandblasting. She loves blasting stuff, but hates painting.

@jeffmc7946 Жыл бұрын

Looks like you have a lot work for your winter project!

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

I just hope it doesn't have to go to the machine shop for anything Jeff. It may need cam bearings and I don't have a cam alignment tool. A few lobes look to be rust pitted too, so that may need to be replaced. We will see. Oh yeah, a couple lifters seem to be rust covered. And pitting on the hardened surfaces spells death to a new rebuild.

@rickburris6164 Жыл бұрын

Another interesting video. Great commentary from both you and The Missus. She did great on the chain hoist and it sure does help on a job like that to have one on the hoist and one on the head. Looks like the Rust Monster got cylinder #1. Are you sure that the previous owner had it covered with a can over the exhaust? Keep up the good work

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Yep, no. 1 looks pretty rough Rick. I hope I have the right diameter slug for pulling the sleeve. I have a good assortment, so there's a good chance. Yes, he assured me it was canned and tarped the whole time. It had to have had a hole in both though to wash the mud daubers nest out of the exhaust pipe. At least that's my thoughts at the present. Any suggestions about how the mud got there...?? I'm at a loss.

@1lilfarm Жыл бұрын

I like her worst case scenario!!! 🤣🤣🤣

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahaha...thanks, I'll pass that on to her. LOL MY worst case is to scrap it and go buy a NEW 50-60 hp Kubota !!

@thecollectoronthecorner7061 Жыл бұрын

You might be able to rig a hyd jack or porta power and press downward on the rusted piston. usually the rust is above the top ring. if you can get it to move down a dingle berry hone can sometimes clean the rusty portion?

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Yes, I'm hoping the ball-hone will take care of the other 3, but #1 looks to be pretty deep. Deep enough to affect compression.

@mdh7812 Жыл бұрын

Wendell, tell Mary that I used a pipe across 5 trusses at my parent's house to pull a 225 slant 6 out of "your" Dodge 440. So you aren't the only one that does that type of thing.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha....first thing she asked when she read your comment: 'Do you know MDH?' LOL She still thinks us guys are all just sticking together. LOL

@oilyragsgarage7200 Жыл бұрын

Hahah😆 hanging up that endless chain, out of necessity, yep that sounds me too. You two work very well together👍 enjoying these videos. Just thinking would boiling hot oil poured in work on that stuck piston?

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Any source of heat will help. Well, I wouldn't use a torch though. I'll probably light a puddle of gasoline a number of times to begin the process. After heating I'll probably use a 50-50 mix of acetone and ATF. All while intermittently beating on it with a slug of oak. The gas will burn slowly and send the heat reasonably evenly across the width of the piston and sleeve. It should slowly break the bond.

@mattthescrapwhisperer Жыл бұрын

Hoist setup looks just fine to me! Boy, it's a shame the engine got let go like that.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Its the luck of the draw Matt. Just like a poker hand, now I gotta play the hand dealt. Other non-runners were just simple issues over the years. Others, like this one, was not.

@martinbenton742 Жыл бұрын

Your Mrs. can rest assured that we all hang chain falls and comalongs from the rafters. I was a little disappointed that you didn't have a radio playing to cover any creeking or popping the rafter may have made in order to keep Mrs. TM from halting all future progress. Ha ha ha ha!!!! Doc

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahaha....I'll remember the radio trick next time. LOL I know a lot of guys that pull engines from a strap on the rafters. Heck, I've done several inside the old shop...whole engines out of tractors this size too. Take care Doc and have a good evening !!

@martinbenton742 Жыл бұрын

@@tractorman4461 better use an air compressor instead of a radio. KZfaq has hit my channel for music in the back ground.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

@@martinbenton742 I've got a pet peeve about that. I've gotten three hits on free music from Bensound. All you have to do is credit them as the source in the description, which I did, and so far three hits. I don't get it. It was off the 'free' list for sure. That's why I quit trying to put music to video. I got hit one time because the Doobie Brothers 'Old Black Water' was playing in the back ground too.

@helmet151 Жыл бұрын

You have to get her an apronance his tractor man 44 she does she does a good job. I’d like the questions that you asked. Good luck.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha....If she can find safety orange material she may just make an apron complete with a nametag !! Good idea Skippy.

@conspiracyscholor7866 Жыл бұрын

Rafter's perfectly strong enough to hold that weight. Now if you were trying to take that entire engine up there might be an issue haha.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

I think you might be onto something there. LOL Even though I am spanning three rafters, it'd be a strain. I did do it in the old shed, kind of anyway. I have a trolly that spans about 9 floor joists for the upper level and on that I've pulled multiple tractor engines.

@jerrykast7713 Жыл бұрын

You are blessed with a good wife. she is great.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Yes, I agree Jerry. I won the lottery that day 46 years ago now....Thank you for the nice comment about the Missus.

@donvoll2580 Жыл бұрын

Good day tractorman U were showing water jackets. Yrs ago anti-freeze sky rocket, & I heard people up north Ontario put diesel fuel in radiator instead of water & antifreeze , do u think that would work satisfactory. Thanks Interesting video.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Well, that's a new one on me Don. I've not heard that before. I don't know its capability to transfer heat as compared to anti freeze but I would think any liquid would work to an extent. It's not corrosive, it wouldn't hurt the mechanical side if it sprung a leak. Hmmm...that's might be something to think about. I certainly wouldn't do it without further investigation though. Just because. If you find something for sure, feel free to drop a comment in on a video and let me know.

@chestypuller9614 7 ай бұрын

I got a 780ck from 1978 with a rod hole thru the block trying to fit either a idi 6.9 or 4b in place of the a336bdt, looking for a idi sae flywheel housing

@tractorman4461 7 ай бұрын

Hot dang, I got nothing for you in that situation. Good luck with your search though.

@HOGRANCHgeorgegabriel9538 Жыл бұрын

ITS THE MOTHER OF INVENTION

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

I hope you enjoyed the video George ! The Missus is really getting into this one.

@JoseLopez-ep9jl 3 ай бұрын

A refresh the same engine 188d but blow white smoke when accelerating🤔

@tractorman4461 3 ай бұрын

My first thought is a leaking head gasket letting coolant burn with the fuel charge. While it running, sometimes a leaking head gasket will show up as the coolant appearing to be boiling in the radiator in a reasonably cold engine. Not always though. Another thing is the injection timing may be slightly off.

@JoseLopez-ep9jl 3 ай бұрын

Thanks sr.👍

@ButlerOutdoorsCanada Жыл бұрын

😳 that's a rusty ol block!!!

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Yes, it was a moisture-rich environment for a long time Andrew.

@paulrichards2713 Жыл бұрын

How do Normal do rhat . Got to love her.

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha....that's funny. She IS a good gal, that's for sure. We try to have fun with whatever the task is at hand.

@kelvinrf Жыл бұрын

She might question you, but at least she can follow instructions.🤣

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Yes, by golly you are right about that !! On a similar note, I listen to her when she needs my help in the kitchen. And that's only fair, because she has always helped with yard work as well as in the woodpile. Buttttt.....her temperature range is kinda in between 50*F and 80*F....LOL

@Dan_Akins Ай бұрын

Any updates on the Case? Or did I miss some episodes?

@tractorman4461 Ай бұрын

Well as usual some jobs just get pushed to the back burner. I've got a couple more disassembly vids, but we had to give attention to other projects and interests. But we WILL get back to it one of these days. Never an end to the list of things to get done here .

@baroja5303 Жыл бұрын

parece que llevan fundas pcilindros

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Sí, es un motor con mangas. Tendré que limpiar totalmente las partes buenas.

@jeremycherny2041 Жыл бұрын

You are normal in my books!

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Well Jeremy, that's good to know buddy !! Most guys I know do lots of stuff in similar fashion. Gotta do what ya gotta do to get the job done, right..!??

@jeremycherny2041 Жыл бұрын

@@tractorman4461 exactly 💯

@markfiorella7447 Жыл бұрын

you got your work cut out for you

@tractorman4461 Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it sure didn't turn out to be only a simple wiring issue did it...LOL The luck of the draw....and on this one Mark, I drew the short straw !! No matter, roll with the flow.