"Sim racing MythBusters" could actually be a fun series of videos.

I never skip the intro, and the only reason is : "ROCK !" *Thump*

The only way i can see the Delta S4 going that fast is with the boost up to 5 bars, which Lancia actually tested. This gave it just over 1000hp, but i'm unsure if an engine that boosted ever went in a car

Well the f1 cars were coffins on wheels while the group b cars were Amazon boxes with 500 hp

that overlay at 13:20 was trippy and proper class at the same time

Why not make a series out of it called "simbusters" quite enjoyed the backstory just as much as the driving

Redbull has an article about this and they apparently investigated and found out that Toivonen indeed lapped the track at a private testing event and the time was there with the top10 fastest F1's that had driven on the track in testing that year. Over time ppl have just confused this with Toivonen's lap being in the top10 for actual qualifying that year in F1.

It was a private testing session from Lancia, the S4 was rumored to have about 700hp, and the time would put Toivonen in the top 10 of a F1 testing session. Not the qualifying or faster than Senna. Nini Russo tels it all on a interview. ;) Toivonen was a driving God! And acording to Russo the only one that really had a conection to the S4.

You could throw the two cars on a Rallye track and calculate which car loses more time percentually on the others home track. :)

Senna's fastest lap in the 1985 Estoril grand prix was a 1:44.1, in the pouring rain, running race boost, with a heavy fuel load, and trying to maintain tyres. It's believed that the legend has got distorted over the years and that the real comparison is that the Group B car in test trim in the dry was faster than the P6 fastest lap in that race. If you compare your Group B time to those wet laps it's pretty similar and maybe plausible. Perhaps a rematch with F1 car in the 1985 conditions?

Made me laugh when I noticed the Lotus' boost gauge starts at 2 bar / 29 psi.

wasn't the audi quattro slow on tarmac? I remember from the mini documentary Clarkson did on Lancia, that the 2wd lancia was faster than the more powerful 4wd audi due to the massive oversteer it had

Oh my lord, Persona 5 music in a Jimmy Broadbent video? Absolutely based. Was very interested to see (well, listen to) this video, I'd always heard the rumors that the Group B cars were faster than the F1 cars of the time but wondered if they held any real weight.

Senna did a 1:44 in the wet race at estoril in 1985, I could see it starting out as "Nearly as fast as an f1 car in the wet" and the story just escalated every time it was told

For those wondering, 5 bar of boost is approx. 72 psi. Imagine a workshop air pressure system hooked up to a car and that's about what those cars were sucking in. Absolutely mental

3:57 The DiRT Rally instructions soundtrack in the background suits really well in my opinion

I'd love to see this done around 80's Monoco.

those brakes in the beginning are better then my fiesta. 10/10 braking.

I have a hazy recollection; back in 1992, when Mansell won the F1 and Will Gollop won the Euro Rallycross in his 6R4, there was a UK magazine article where they put the cars against each other. My worn out memory can't remember if it was real car against car, or if it was just using the recorded times but if what's left of memory works, the two cars were neck and neck till about 120mph... That twin turbo MG of Gollop's must've been an absolute animal to try and drive.

"We're round, we're round" Fine, Jimmy. I'll run a mile tomorrow.

9:23 "The difference between bravery and stupidity is results."

As other comments have suggested, the S4 was more advanced than the audi and the lap times might have been for wet conditions. Maybe try that in another video? Also, rumors say the S4 had an exprimental engine with 700-800 HP... Maybe you could try that with your SimRacing powers

I do wonder, on the right track if the group b car could be faster than the f1 car, I’m thinking of tracks like cadwell, Monaco, ext..

This story is quite popular here in Portugal, especially among the rally fans. Razão Automóvel, one of the biggest Portuguese automotive medias made a post about this some years ago. What they found is that Henri Toivonen's run actually happened! But the story was quite distorted and his time wouldn't qualify him at 6th place on Portuguese GP, on the real story, his time would "just" get him on the top 10 of a private test that had occured on the same track, three weeks before.

I appreciate the Persona music.

mmm, this is the good stuff my friend!

Persona 5 Soundtrack. Much respect.

NASCAR cars raced at Le Mans in 1976. What would a modern NASCAR do in a Le Mans GT field?

Did you think I wouldn't notice the Persona 5 music? You were wrong.

I know the delta/estoril myth as the delta being 10sec slower than F1 pole. Which is still epic

I really like the green screen cam with the cockpit view on bottom and track/news view on top help you get a feel for grip and how fast the cars going

I seem to remeber an article from Octane a few years ago about the Delta S4, and when they started asking one of the Lancia Mechanics about where the Lap time came form they replied "straght form the Marketing head's Arse!". And another said that the F1 times they were comparing them selfs to were testing laps done in the rain.

I wouldn’t trust any press releases coming from Lancia in the 80s 😂

This messes with my brain. Where would the Delta get the corner speed from, especially when compared to a full-fat, dry turbo Senna qualifying lap, with the Group B cars ‘only’ having 400+ BHP. It makes zero sense.

13:00 Editor-chan killed it with simultaneous onboard and on track footage

Loved the format and it was a nice little childhood spark for me too :)

This man really used persona music in the background. Love it

i love stuff like this that sim racing allows us to do. reminds me of when i raced an suv (the maserati in ac) against an f1 car (the lotus 25) around nords and they were pretty damn close if i remember right

This was such a great vid, watching someone who clearly is enjoying what they do makes it so much more enjoyable

The real story goes that henri was testing out a 800hp+ s4 on track and was keeping up with F1 times.

Love the cut / vibe of this video. New era of jimmy ^^

I myth I would like to see being tested: what's the fastest era of world rally cars? Many think it's Group B, but I'm not so sure.

Another fantastic video Jimmer, perfect for a lazy Sunday evening viewing, would love to see more of these

Would love this sort of video made into a series, could see it being really fun. Also, we need Jimmer's car tier list now that you've mentioned it

As a follow up, Jimmy, and in keeping with the Group B spirit, I would love to see how many more HP would the car need with no other modification to get within the same ballpark! Anyway, the thing I find funny is that the comparison itself is also not particularly fair, for the very reason that it is interesting: a rally car isn't set up for a track, and the closer you get, the less rally the car feels. At some point, what you would get would be a touring car, instead of a "rally" car. You could probably drop some of the protective elements since the track should be fairly clean and clear. You'd lower the suspension, stiffening it and reducing some of the roll. Everything that makes it what it is, you'd sacrifice at the altar of time. And I think you'd get closer -- you might even get there, perhaps with a bigger engine -- but it wouldn't be as a rally car.

Thank you, Jimmer. "More power than sense," gave me the giggles.

Loved the new camera angles outside the car looks awesome, wanted to suggest this for a long time now ! Cool vid Jimbo !!

Brilliant video. You really need to come up to the rally stage at Goodwood Festival of Speed, one of my favourite places. Mates do get a bit sick of me spending so much time up there lol.

I really enjoyed this - even if I knew the result! I would be interested to see some other cars from the same era attempt a best lap at Estoril though - perhaps the actual car in question Lacia Delta S4, maybe the more tarmac friendly Lancia 037. I doubt it can be accurately Sim'd, but the Delta prototype for the cancelled Group S would be very very interesting!

This needs to be a series.

the spectators in group B rallying are actually road markers that tell you where to go

I just watched your 2016 video and 2017 video and it is just amiazing how much you changed in that year. In the 2016 video you are depressed and you sound really, really sad. But in the 2017 video you are so glad and you laugh and are happy. That is just amazing to me. Last but not least I just want to say that I love your content, congrats on the house and never stop making videos!

Mythbusters or Era vs Era could be a great series to run. Was great seeing a circuit like Estoril too!

Jimmy, Ever heard of Cleetus McFarland? You should try to get in on one of the races he organizes.

Video quality has skyrocketed in the last month or two which is great to see. I can't wait for other vids like this one

My dad was in 85 or 86 in Finland and saw Goup B. He said the most epic thing was at night. You could see the lights comming in the forrest and the bangs. He said it sounded like a machine gun ecoing. The hairs was standing at that point :D

I’d love to see the reverse of this experiment - seeing how the F1 car compares on a rally stage.

This is exactly what i needed...

I remember talking about this on an f1 forum back in 2005. Someone suggested that maybe Toivonen's lap was on the other, shorter layouts.

Great video, looks like you're having fun, which is always awesome to see.

I mean, if you put the Lotus on gravel I'm sure things would look different. :P Seriously though, its crazy to think that Group B had that kind of performance under such conditions. Rally events could be about 10 times the distance of a F1 race or even longer. These suckers had to be durable as fuck to just have the slightest chance of winning.

Jimmer! DO more of this shit! I WANT moooore!!!!!

This was very fun to watch. Keep it up Jimmer

Listening to the background music while Jimmy briefly explains the Audi brings back some fond memories of DiRT Rally.

I've heard the various versions of this myth/legend over the years, and the only one which comes close to making any kind of sense is the one which was supposedly printed in the 1986/87 edition of "RALLYWORLD", as a summary of the rallying year. This version states: "Picking a winner was difficult, near impossible, but Henri Toivonen was one of the favorites. Still on a high and enjoying it all so much, he relaxed one evening by taking Grand Prix driver Jonathan Palmer on a few laps of the Estoril track in his Delta S4. In pouring rain, and at night, the Finn startled Palmer somewhat with the sheer performance of the racer, some unofficial estimates suggesting that the lap times would have had them somewhere on the front half of the grid for the 'wet' 1985 Portuguese Formula One race." If we take this to mean that the Delta S4 could have been around as fast as the top ~12 F1 cars in the wet 1985 Portuguese Grand Prix (I think "front half of the grid" here doesn't refer to qualifying, but the wet race) while driving in similarly very wet conditions then it's maybe possibly close to the truth. If you check clips from the 1985 Portuguese Grand Prix you can see just how wet it was, with the amount of standing water and rivers across the track causing massive problems with aquaplaning.

The Delta S4 had better power delivery, a more adaptive AWD system, the engine was mid mounted, and it technically had more power so theoretically, you could have gone faster if you had the Lancia Delta S4 set up the way they did at the time. The difference would not be a second it would be more like 4 - 9 seconds... still mental though

Great content jimmer! I'd really love to see more of those comparison videos. Something like what is faster around Le Mans? 70s - 80s Prototypes or modern GTE. Or what is faster around an f1 track? F2 vs Indycars.

Love the video, love the energy, great work as always!

Yes F1 is faster. But it looks numb at times. Group B and rally cars look alive and cars moving everywhere. Plus the rally noise is far better. Great vid Jimmy 👍

No matter what group b rally cars will be the most cutting edge machinery ever in motorsport

Petition to make a new series called sim buster. Where you bust myths about racing in general

13:16 That was very innovative. Thanks Jimmer, very cool.

Jimmyyyy your helmet is in f1 2021!!!

It was Toivonen in the wet, who would have qualified in 6th against the f1 field in the wet

Both racing series were very fast for what they did. It was a really good video and watching experience, more of these types of videos would be really cool.

The funny thing about the Audi was that because it was so nose heavy, Stig Blomqvist said that it felt like he was driving a front wheel drive car, like the old Saab 96, and he could just hang it out as far as he wanted to make a corner, and the car would just come back every time he hit the throttle!

No one Jimmy: BOX

Only thing I have to say is that Toivonen was a way better driver than Jimmy and the Lancia drove quite differently than this Quattro.

huge fan of your content for some time now, as a portuguese it pleases me to see you driving in the old estoril portuguese gp :) keep up the good work

Fun fact. A spectator reached out to touch a passing 205 T16 and ended up with 2 of their fingers severed by the car's side intake. The fingers were found in the radiator after the stage.

I am speed

Great coverage of today's events on GT!

I am old enough that I actually went to both the 1984 and 1985 RAC rally stages at Chatsworth, and seeing the Group B cars was the most mind bending thing I have ever seen.

In 1985 an F1 car was only 1.6 seconds slower than the winner of the Paris to Dakar Rally. This f1 car was also so fast it would have come 6th on the grid at the UIM Class 1 World Powerboat Championships. I now expect Jim to prove this on a sim, otherwise we will never know the truth.

I saw that audi quattro doing laps around the assen circuit in the rain a couple of weeks ago, so cool to see

Things felt so magical when I was a kid, hearing stories about the good old days. I was born in 1990, so my only experiences with racing as a young’n was actually going to races. And with no internet to temper my expectations, my imagination ran wild. How I wished I could experience these legendary past eras of racing! The drivers and the cars are heroes to me. The emotion he expresses over Group B and indeed the legendary F1 cars of the same era is so damn relatable. I know exactly how you feel. It really is an emotional connection to these things. It’s special. How lucky are we to have sims now.. unbelievable.

You have to go to Rally Day at Castle Combe, it's great to be able to see these cars being used in anger & not just at static displays.

Markku Alen and Juha Kankkunen were chatting about these cars. These things were such beasts, that when they changed to group A, the cars felt so slow that in the Finnish rally they drove with one hand and waved to the crowds!

Nice job Jimmer. Really enjoyed that video

The Delta S4 F1 qualifying story probably comes from the fact that a shortened version of the circuit was used as a rally stage at, I think, the Portuguese rally in 1986...

I'd love to see the comparison between F1 Cars and the fastest productions cars of the same era. Seeing how far technology has come, and how the modern fastest cars can beat some of the classic F1 cars, would be interesting.

Very much enjoyed the intro bit. Nice to have full context before getting into the point of the video.

I saw the shox clip, jimmy. That brings back a few memories!

Another idea - Donington 1993. Senna only took the outright lap record from a Peugeot Group C car on a lap he drove through the pits without stopping. It was a shortcut, and no speed limits in those days. How close can a group C car get to an early 90s 3.5l F1 car at Donington?

Group B is really something else

Big turbos? Funny sim man? Persona 5 music? This video has it all!!

I just built the Audi Quattro Lego set yesterday. Solid timing.

Hearing your love for VR Dirt Rally 2.0, I am surprised you don't create some AC VR content. IMO, it's still the best VR Sim in performance and fidelity.

Interesting, I never knew the no hand brake thing. I wonder if that's because of the symetrical AWD, and essentially, locked diffs, meaning you'd be essentially trying to brake the engine

But the Lancia handles different from the Quattro, the weight distribution helped it in the corners due to it having more weight in the back (sort of like an F1 car)this made it to where it had considerably less front plow than the Quattro. The Lancia was also somewhat exempt from the lag that the Quattro had since it had a supercharger and an turbo, so it could power through a corner like no tomorrow. The Quattro was a good car, but in terms of technical innovation, handling and sheer speed the Lancia Delta S4 is on top and king of the Group B monsters