Which sub to reverse in a 2-element cardioid stack?

Рет қаралды 22,517

Жыл бұрын

If you are trying to cancel sound in a specific direction, visualize a line drawn through the subwoofer drivers. To the rear you'll get cancellation. To the front you'll get summation. Remember that the rear facing sub gets the delay and polarity inversion.
For more information about the 2-element gradient array, watch this: • Why do you polarity in...
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I love to geek out about the physics of sound. This channel focuses on the growing opportunity for live sound engineers to improve their confidence and consistency through the understanding of the principles of sound system design and optimization. My goal is to make this channel upfront and honest about my success and failure, so you can learn from both.
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Пікірлер: 45

@stavroshouiris Жыл бұрын

weird timing, I also got covid yesterday and I'm binge watching all your videos lol. As well as Dave Rat, Alpha sound, and Michael Curtis. My interests in PA setup has recently peaked and I'm glad there's content creators like you who share all this insight on the different technics, configurations as well as tools and software. Really appreciate it, keep up the good work and hope you feel better soon!

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Oh man, I really hope the symptoms are weak. Mine were...brutal, for about 2 days.

@stavroshouiris Жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Yea it wasn't anything severe just a few minor symptoms, anyway hope you're feeling better man

@icsux 10 ай бұрын

Great video man, I have 4 subs, DB 918 and now I'm gonna play with them knowing what I saw here :)

@nathanlively 10 ай бұрын

Great! If you want to measure them I’ll add them to SubAligner.

@crud118 Жыл бұрын

Nice!

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@seantallica2020 Жыл бұрын

At 06:20, do you think you could do a video about that set up? I have a show couple months from now that I would love to do the set up, I ran the regular Cardioid sub, works great, but I have 4 18” subs that I would like to use, thanks!

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Hi Sean, if you're interested in gradient array variations, I cover it in Sub School, but this video is really more complete: livesoundsummit2020.sounddesignlive.com/talks/modern-variable-directivity-techniques-in-subwoofer-arrays/

@TheBandRosie Жыл бұрын

What would you do in stacks of 3? I've always done the middle one but watching your video perhaps the top one makes more sense, especially on a higher stage?

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Hey Rosie, I'd stick with the middle one. Please see Merlijn's 2 part series on this topic: www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/study-hall/135-which-sub-to-reverse

@NakeanWickliff 4 ай бұрын

Wow! So cool. Ok so question do people or should people use this in home theater (is there bough space in a small room) to reduce room modes? Got a 50hz trail that sucks and I think could be due to room mode but could also be oil heater or oil heater ducting. Wish I could find a good way to test this with my mic in REW. HAD 4 subs but went to a single in order to reduce the slow 50hz decay which worked. Would love to have the big boom boom of multi sub if possible without the long decay trail I’ve got.

@nathanlively 3 ай бұрын

Hey Nakean, REW has a room simulation feature where you can experiment with subwoofer placement while observing the response.

@domenicdienstknecht2141 Жыл бұрын

Where did you find the Circle CAD Backround for Mapp 3D ?

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Hey Domenic, it's one of the built in templates. I think it's called Lab.

@soundasylumlive4421 Жыл бұрын

Do the cardioid setups or phantom cardioid setups help what the audience hears or FOH?

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Should be both if you do it right. :)

@tony8236 Ай бұрын

sorry if I have another question even if it's not the correct video. Do cardioid but in-line subwoofers give the same result? Of course if there is the possibility and you have enough space

@nathanlively Ай бұрын

Hey Tony, when it comes to gradient array, the effective bandwidth in front is controlled by the spacing which is fixed in an inverted gradient stack.

@tarun.krishna Жыл бұрын

Do the reflections from the floor behave similar to the reflections under a stage for cardioid subwoofer setup? If yes, how does it affect the tonal accuracy for subs low passed at 100hz vs 80hz?

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Hey Tarun, I'm not an acoustician, but I think a stage is a resonant box and a different beast. Wait, are you talking about putting the subs under the stage? In that case, no, that won't work. This sub array needs 1m or clearance from any boundaries, which is why you'll see it to the side or in front of a stage. Or above!

@tarun.krishna Жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Thank you so much, that answers my question.

@ladjkaoz 5 ай бұрын

why not set up at 9 and 3 Oclock.... right against the wall. 🤔 that's what I usually try to do.😁

@Jo-yachtgineer Жыл бұрын

Is there a special processing on this set up?

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Yes! Please see the video I linked to in the description above.

@tony8236 2 ай бұрын

hello and thanks for this video. I'm using a translator because I don't speak English well. I tried this configuration and noticed that when the public subwoofer is on the ground I get almost 2 dB more. my question is: is it right to always use this way or are there occasions when it is better to have the audience subwoofer on high?

@nathanlively Ай бұрын

Hey Tony, I can't think of an example where I've used the opposite orientation, but I can imagine that if you had the same 2-element inverted gradient stack, but flown, you'd want it to be reversed in order to direct the cancellation towards the open mics on stage.

@tony8236 Ай бұрын

@@nathanlively thank you so much. however on stage the cancellation seems the same. only that if I use the subwoofer at the bottom facing forward I have greater gain (2db from smaart tested in the same situation). perhaps due to the ground effect

@Earthcitizen4609 Жыл бұрын

My subs don't have delay option only polarity and 2 what's the best placement in cardioid ?

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Hmm, I don't know any directional arrays that don't use delay. Let me know what you find out.

@Earthcitizen4609 Жыл бұрын

@@nathanlivelyold prx 818 subwoofer JBL Have polarity button only have 2

@paulwaites6551 Жыл бұрын

For two elements stacked what delay do i use on the bottom reversed sub?

@nathanlively Жыл бұрын

Hey Paul, this is exactly what I explain at the top of the video and most of the time I set it up as you see in the photo.

@mogwix Жыл бұрын

@@nathanlively Hi Nathan, I watched your other video on gradient arrays and if I understand correctly, if you have 1m of spacing between the drivers, you would phase-invert the rear facing element and delay it by 2.9ms to get summation at 86Hz? You need to physically move the elements around then calculate the delay in order to get a different tuning frequency right? Can you do gradient arrays with horn loaded subs?

@XGenuineCompetenceX 7 ай бұрын

How much delay is applied for a target frequency of 63Hz❓

@nathanlively 6 ай бұрын

Hi XGenuine. In the case of an inverted gradient stack, you don't have a choice about this because subs cannot change position. The delay required is a direct result of the array design. This is one reason to choose an inline gradient instead, so that you can control the bandwidth.

@ladjkaoz 5 ай бұрын

Those subs are very low I still would go vertical... cardio..

@hazemblahtimeyyy Жыл бұрын

This is indonesian

@zolwikwkurwik 11 ай бұрын

How much space do you need befind the two subs to make the cancelation work? I have a concrete wall and I'm wondering if I can use this method

@nathanlively 11 ай бұрын

Most of the guidelines I’ve seen say at least 1m

@zolwikwkurwik 11 ай бұрын

@@nathanlively thanx! I have another question. If I put my subs few meter in front of my other speakers, is it necessary to delay the subs main signal to make them fire at the same time from the stage?

@nathanlively 11 ай бұрын

@@zolwikwkurwik What are the “other speakers”? In any alignment, distance offsets must be equalized.

@zolwikwkurwik 11 ай бұрын

@@nathanlivelyby other speakers I mean mid-high frequency speakers

@zolwikwkurwik 10 ай бұрын

Is this software free?

@nathanlively 10 ай бұрын

Which one?